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Fans offer to cover budget to redo Star Wars: The Last Jedi
- Thread starter ASleepingMonkey
- Start date
The issue is that you're assuming I want the complete opposite. That's not what I'm asking for. I'm asking if you all believe him and his team could have handled those subtleties better.
So, would you consider this to be a peak storytelling from Rian Johnson without need for improvement?
dude what are you doing nobody is arguing this and you are going off the rails
Wait what? Did you just jump in and not read the last page of posts? Calm yourself.
I think the movie is imperfect, so obviously there is room for improvement. Very few films are truly impeccable.
But at least you and Osahi are having a rational, civil discussion, and that's a far cry from the people who just make insane blanket statements like I HAVE SEEN 1000 MOVIES AND THIS ONE IS BY FAR THE WORST and expect to be taken seriously.
Either way I hope it becomes a copypasta.
Also, I suppose my core issue is that people are unable to differentiate between "I did/did not like a thing" and the objective qualities of said thing. Okay, you hated a movie. That doesn't necessarily make the movie garbage.
It's okay not to connect with a well-made movie. It's okay to enjoy a poorly-made one. But the hyperbole concerning TLJ is just mindboggling.
Im not really interested in Star Wars, so I havent watched the new ones yet. That said, with the way people whine about these movies I think I'll try and watch one soon
You can dislike a very well told story. But that doesn't mean you don't like the story because it is not well told. A lot of the arguments about what would made TLJ better, would in my opinion actually make it worse, and yes, that's a sign to me that they don't understand some aspects of good storytelling. Asking for more blatant exposition when it is not nessecairy to understand the characters arcs and drama is one of those. I can understand that if you were pumping yourself up for two years to get an answer on who Snoke was, you're disapointed this isn't adressed. But the movie doesn't need this at all to work, and in TFA it was never set-up as a mystery needing answers to begin with. It's completely besides the case in the story, so forcing it in would amount to heavy exposition and diminishing what is actually one of the strongest scenes in the movie.
There is always room for improvement. But the solution you asked for and what I jumped on (having more lore for Snoke) wouldn't improve the movie at all, it would actually weigh it down.
But yes, pacing issues and some wonky dialogue aside (stuff every Star Wars movie suffers from imo), Rian Johnson has written this movie with the right writer's instincts imo. Give your character's hell, don't give them what they want, go for unexpected answers and let the character's drive the movie, not the plot.
This. So much.
How hard is it, if you truly hate these films, to just not watch them and carry on with your life as if they don't exist?
Well, to be fair, when I see the "did/did not like" and "good/bad movie", it almost always makes me question what is a good or a bad movie. Sure, there are some where the answer is given, mostly when everything is wrong, from the visuals to the story and everything in between. But how can anyone say a movie is "good" or "bad"? Isn't it better to just stop trying to put a movie behind one of those terms if we can't agree with it? Or is it just a shortcut for saying we liked it or not? Art is relative and our vision of it is too so it's always a mistake to take the problem literally like there are some good answers and bad answers to a physics test.
That said, I didn't like TLJ, for various reasons and not because of missing answers. And I don't think it should be remade, even when Johnson says it should. It's the artistic view of its director and should stay the way it is, divisive or not. No movie should be retconned into oblivion just because a hysterical mass of fans cannot accept that someone else can make their own version of the universe they love.
Sure. That's what I try to say. You can find a painting very ugly, but still acknowledge the artist has a great technique. I don't want to claim every TLJ-critic is the same or has the same opinion. I reacted at first on the argument that not having enough lore surrounding Snoke was a bad thing, while I firmly believe that adding that kind of lore is unessecairy and would detract from the quality. And in a lot of TLJ discussions I find that what grates some people are actually examples of great storytelling or at least a good writers instinct (for example, the 'anticlimactic' answer to Reys lineage, Luke's arc, ...)
Just out of curiosity: what didn't you like about TLJ?
Rian Johnson murdered my cherished childhood franchise aided by the feminist agenda of the corporate hacks at Disney! He must pay for what he has done, and now we, the true fans must rise up against him! Repent! Repent my fellow nerds, and give me millions of dollars to tackle the biggest concern of our generation, a space fantasy film that I didn't like!
Yes yes yes, I desperately want this project to get as far along as possible. Imagine the comedy gold we could get. Not just incredible fan-made scripts, but Twitter fights, internet drama, financial mismanagement, crazy decisions. Please please please move forward with this.
That was my point.
Any text that would reveal anything about Snoke would be utterly pointless and 4th wall breaking.
Their funding strategy refers to preordering "tickets" so they apparently intend to somehow monetize this thing. That fact alone would get such a project nuked from orbit even if the somehow managed to miraculously secure their $200 million worth of crowdfunding.
Fan projects live and die on the sufferance of the rights holder. The risk of "brand confusion" or "brand dilution" are pretty real. Just look at all the trouble that Prelude fo Axanar had with Paramount for making a Star Trek fan film, or Nintendo nuking any Pokemon fan project from orbit. Disney and Lucasfilm could C&D this monstrosity at any moment and have no incentive to allow it to continue, even if the people behind this Remake could miraculously turn out a halfway decent Star Wars movie from crowdfunding. That's why the Remake folks are either idiots who know nothing about moviemaking or scammers.
Have you ever considered that Snoke was not the main villain, and that Kylo Ren is? Contrary to Darth Vader, Snoke is the way Kylo deeps further into the dark side by killing him, while Palpatine in the OT is the way Vader rise to the light side by killing him.
We finally get a movie that actually rhymes like poetry and people are freakin' out.
Someone on Twitter also posted a comparison between the framing of Luke's journey into the cave in ESB and his telling of the night he nearly killed Ben. They are very intentionally mirrored.
pff poser, everybody knows it's Ruin Johnson, not Rian.
Can't these nerds just fast forward through all the dogshit and just watch the Kylo/Rey/Luke parts like I do? Save a whole lotta time and money.
Yes, I know all that. Doesn't matter. Snoke himself is uninteresting which dampens my enthusiasm for Kylo killing him.
Snoke doesn't have to be boring to rhyme.
I think I was pulled out of the movie by its pace and incoherencies. It's disappointing because I liked Rey's arc (mostly) through and through and liked Poe way more than in TFA, mostly due to his better characterization as a brash pilot who understand the people around him as things goes on and that his ways are not helpful.
Leia's force scene was the first one that made me twitch. It was unnecessary and pretty stupid. While I like Finn, its "subquest" was boring. Not as in "it should have never been here" like some people say but more as in "make it at least as interesting as the other scenes it cuts" kind of way. I'm not against the fact that it impacts nothing in the end, realistically speaking, it makes more sense. But if it does nothing AND is a bore, I don't like it. It also doesn't help that Del Toro character isn't anything more than what he looks like. Lando had at least the roguish charisma that makes you wonder whose side he is with, DJ is just an asshole from beginning to end then betrays them and leave.
Meanwhile, it forces Poe's story to go at a crawling pace. I'm not into faster than light action in movies but when nothing really happens in 30 minutes, it makes me a bit sad. Speaking of faster than light, while the lightspeed attack from Holdo was beautiful (seriously, I don't like the movie but visuals were awesome most of the time), it causes concern that everyone talked about for months about the possible use of this attack in all the Star Wars saga.
For the Rey/Kylo part, I pretty much loved it until the Snoke scene. I found Kylo's part well told and the ambiguity of the side he will chose at the end was a driving force going forward. Then, Snoke died. I'm not from the ones that wanted more backstory for him. I wanted more story. In TFA, he only appeared as an hologram and in TLJ, they finally showed how powerful and intimidating he could be going fo...and he is dead. The fact that Kylo decided to remain a villain after that was maybe the only thing that did not make me leave the theater after that. There was a potential in Snoke that will probably never be used.
About the end of the movie, the suicide attack from Finn was a good scene but Rose's actions fell flat. I don't think their love story was either well presented, meaningful or necessary. And the fact that it pushed her to save Finn in exchange of all the other lives of the soldiers in the base was morally meh due to that. Luke the appeared in an emotional scene with Leia (good thing) but his final fate left me dubious, at best (I can understand that people felt otherwise, that point was a completely personal point of view). And all the building up for Kylo pretty much went out as he just became the same as he was at the start of the movie. I won't talk too much about all the small things that made me tick (e.g. how Rose could come crashing on a full speed Finn while she stopped the run earlier or the fact that Finn could bring her back in a couple of minutes on foot after that).
But to summarize, the amount of good scenes was not sufficient to forget the boring parts or bizarre choices (again, for me) in this movie. The number of plotholes or small things, while sometimes I feel I'm nitpicking too much, broke my suspension of disbelief too many times to make me enjoy the movie as much as I would have liked. It's a complete personal opinion that has nothing to do with the technical aspects of the movie that I found really engrossing.
I don't think he is boring, but that's highly subjective. Most people had high expectations of him because they thought he was going to be as big as Sheev. I actually liked him but he's just a plot point for the main story
I actually really enjoyed Andy Serkis' performance in TLJ, but ultimately Snoke is just not important to the core narrative. He's just a deliciously hammy stepping stone for Kylo Ren.
lol. i actually like it. it's not perfect sure but it's a good film. the humour is a bit odd, snoke dying, and superwoman leia was disappointing but eh.
i guess that's star wars fans for you.
i guess that's star wars fans for you.
Saw this meme today that said something like "People who say that SW is ruined by RJ should be sit with their eyes open and forced to watch Attack of the Clones on a loop"
I wonder why they don't go and remake that movie instead
I wonder why they don't go and remake that movie instead
Because Natalie Portman's shirt got torn off and Yoda did cool ninja shit.
Snoke being a boring retread of the Emperor was the single biggest reason they got rid of him so fast, JJ fumbled that one. There was nothing interesting about another withered old man giving orders from his throne room. Making him a personal obstacle to Kylo's ambition was much more appropriate than having another Dark Lord as the big bad.
It simultaneously puts Kylo Ren even further outside the Darth Vader mold.
Bingo. Didnt have that dreaded "diversity" that TLJ had. That is the only reason they fixate on TLJ but not the prequels.
They can still live in their straight white male bubble watching the prequels.
We don't need Snokes backstory, he is dead and is not going to be in the next movie so who cares?
You know what is going to be in the next movie? Porgs! But we don't know anything about their backstory.
Thus I propose we remake TLJ Porg Edition and fill in these important details.
Are they indigenous to that planet? Have they travelled in space before? What sort of society do they have? Do they lay eggs? Do they mate for life? And the most important question is what do they taste like?
You know what is going to be in the next movie? Porgs! But we don't know anything about their backstory.
Thus I propose we remake TLJ Porg Edition and fill in these important details.
Are they indigenous to that planet? Have they travelled in space before? What sort of society do they have? Do they lay eggs? Do they mate for life? And the most important question is what do they taste like?
This topic just reminded me a book I read recently that was just exposition after exposition with bits of story in between.
It was interesting because it was a critic of European Monarchy circa 1700s and it was really well written.
But dear god it killed any pacing the story had and the narrative or the characters felt like an afterthough over how the author felt about Monarchy.
I'm really absolutely glad they didn't go that route or the Prequel route of expogab forever and keep that at the minimun.
It was interesting because it was a critic of European Monarchy circa 1700s and it was really well written.
But dear god it killed any pacing the story had and the narrative or the characters felt like an afterthough over how the author felt about Monarchy.
I'm really absolutely glad they didn't go that route or the Prequel route of expogab forever and keep that at the minimun.
If you're gonna do this, you have to be really, really good at it, like Neal Stephenson.
Snoke getting snuffed is like when a song has a single measure that's got one extra or one less beat to it
It's unexpected, somewhat jarring, and creates a lot of forward momentum
It's unexpected, somewhat jarring, and creates a lot of forward momentum
All I know is that I'm not sure if I'm ready to read another Victor Hugo book.
Like people make fun of others for only knowing Notre Dame through the Disney movie, but yeah you kind of don't want to read the book when Hugo feels like going through a digression on how the gargoyle made 3 centuries before was really a work of art by itself and how it shows that people with uncommon features were treated like shit and no one gave to 2 thoughts about it.
Like woah, you have to be really committed to the book for that.
You can have movies that are more about making a point about a subject than about characters and how they progress.
I imagine that you could have a space opera movie about the struggle of autoritarianism vs freedom and whatever but it's clearly not Star Wars and thank god that it is not Star Wars.
If you want extended lore and shit, that's what tv shows are for and you can't really do that well in a cartoonishly simple setting as the Star Wars universe.
Yup. It gave the movie a shot of morphine to the arm. It gave me the feeling Game of Thrones or Westworld gives me.
See, even though I don't agree on all your points, this is the kind criticism I can accept. You didn't like stuff because the way it was presented, not because of some fantasies you had about what the movie. should be.
I for instance liked how Canto Bight showed a new side of the galaxy, but I can understand people who didn't like that part (it's the closest to the PT we got in the ST). I also think it was a good idea to kill Snoke off, as it would've only led to another Vader/Palpatine-dynamic. I find it way more interesting to have Kylo being the one and true badguy now, not the puppet of some master.
How come a twitter account ran by idiots that had 200 followers before this blew up get this much attention?
I think a part of me would have love to see Kylo overthrow Snoke in some way without killing him that easily. I can understand the fact that Snoke was overconfident in his win and his power over Kylo, that it was what cost him is life and everything that happened was entirely his fault. But seriously, even the Emperor did not show that sheer level of power and control over Luke. The way he played with Rey and completely overpowered her was frightening. The simple thought of a 3-way power-battle between him, Rey and Kylo would have hyped me for SW IX.
And I just saw I totally forgot to talk about Phasma. I don't want to get angry about it again so let's leave it here... What a mess...
But yeah, "it wasn't what I wanted" is not a viable enough criticism for any movie. Even though I didn't like it, kudos to Johnson for the risk taking on some plot points through the movie. It won't be my favorite SW but it will most likely be the one that made me think the most about what I expect from Star wars and what path the saga will take in the future.
Good. Johnson almost made a great movie, but it wasn't quite there, and I think a new version is exactly what fans deserve. In terms of the story, clearly it's brilliant. But there is one critical element that's missing. It needs a sexual punch-up. We need to get a female lead character in there that Kylo can bang throughout the whole movie. See, one of the problems with Star Wars films is that they lack a certain eroticism. What if we were to bring an incredibly hot but skeptical female Knight of Ren partner into the mix? And then that way, whenever Kylo's not out busting heads because he's sensed rebellion, he's back at the Supremacy performing outrageous sexual experiments on her supple, young body. Now here's the twist. And there is a twist. We show it. We show all of it. Because what's the one major thing missing from all Star Wars films these days? Full penetration. We're gonna show full penetration, and we're gonna show a lot of it. I mean, we're talking, you know, graphic scenes of Kylo Renn really going to town on this hot, young Knight of Ren from behind, 69, anal, vaginal, cowgirl, reverse cowgirl All the hits. All the big ones. All the good ones. And then he senses rebellion again. He's out busting heads. Then he's back to the Supremacy for some more full penetration. He senses rebellion. Back to the Supremacy, full penetration. Rebellion, penetration, rebellion, full penetration, rebellion, penetration. And this goes on and on and back and forth for 90 or so minutes until the movie just sort of ends.
I thought all the banging was gonna happen in the next movie between Kylo & Rey as they try to work their feelings out while everyone around them is still killing each other completely unaware the franchise took a genre shift