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Fans offer to cover budget to redo Star Wars: The Last Jedi
- Thread starter ASleepingMonkey
- Start date
I found TLJ be extremely disappointing, to put it mildly, but I've moved on. Disney's got more SW coming and I hope things can improve. It's seems they don't have much of a road map in terms of what all these movies is leading to ala what we have in the MCU and Infinity War which was damn good. Let the movie stand as, if anything to ensure this unintended moment of hilarity is always with us:
What's extra annoying about this is that these super extreme "fans" who hate TLJ are basically going to drown out any actual legit discussion about the movie. It definitely has some flaws and character moments that are worth discussing, but nobody is going to pay attention to that because of shitheads like these people.
I really enjoyed Snokey in TLJ, him shitting on Ren's mask and walking around in slippers and a gold bathrobe was hilarious.
I think the whole thing with the mystery shit is that there's a disconnect between the characters and some of the audience. The characters in the story do not give a shit who Snoke is, he isn't presented as a mystery to be solved, the people he's affected the most(Ren, Leia, Han) already seem to know everything they would ever want to know about Snoke and that's that.
A portion of the audience however who's seen 7 previous SW movies and know all the history see this ancient powerful dark side dude with a big ol scar and has lots of knowledge about everything in the past and see that as very mysterious in the context of the greater SW universe.
That's TFA.
TLJ could have had Luke trying to figure out about Snoke in his exile or whatever and Rey asks who this guy is who turned Ren or some nonsense. But doing that would make Snoke the main bad guy, and Rian needed to make Ren the main guy. There was nothing more you could do with Snoke once it was decided Ren was going to take over, so yeah go big and have Ren kill him off to cement his status as the sole Big Bad Dude.(I have many problems with Ren's build up as big bad dude but that's another post)
I think the whole thing with the mystery shit is that there's a disconnect between the characters and some of the audience. The characters in the story do not give a shit who Snoke is, he isn't presented as a mystery to be solved, the people he's affected the most(Ren, Leia, Han) already seem to know everything they would ever want to know about Snoke and that's that.
A portion of the audience however who's seen 7 previous SW movies and know all the history see this ancient powerful dark side dude with a big ol scar and has lots of knowledge about everything in the past and see that as very mysterious in the context of the greater SW universe.
That's TFA.
TLJ could have had Luke trying to figure out about Snoke in his exile or whatever and Rey asks who this guy is who turned Ren or some nonsense. But doing that would make Snoke the main bad guy, and Rian needed to make Ren the main guy. There was nothing more you could do with Snoke once it was decided Ren was going to take over, so yeah go big and have Ren kill him off to cement his status as the sole Big Bad Dude.(I have many problems with Ren's build up as big bad dude but that's another post)
more of this...
No-one's calling for the prequels to be re-made right now because the prequels came out almost 20 years ago. People were just as upset about the prequels at the time, and they have been "remade" in the form of cuts that remove Jar Jar, etc. They've also been critiqued more than any movie, with "reviews" that are longer than the movies themselves tearing them down. My guess is if Disney announced they were remaking the prequels, the overall reaction would be quite positive.
Also, those fans who would have wanted to see "good" prequels have since been given good prequel material in the form of the Clone Wars show
Finally, a significant portion of the distaste for TLJ comes from people who thought it did not follow up TFA properly. Many of us (I'm one of these people) enjoyed TFA and were eagerly looking forward to the next installment. This is why the outcries about TLJ can't be compared to distaste for AOTC. AOTC was following a bad movie. TPM received enough criticism that AOTC actually changed course to appease fans (by removing Jar Jar). Of course AOTC has plenty of faults regardless, but for many of us, it's a bad movie following a bad movie, so expectations were low. For those who see TLJ as a bad movie following a good movie, TLJ leaves a worse impression, even though it's technically not a worse movie than AOTC.
Considering TFA's two main heroes were a white woman and a black man, it's hard to reconcile this group of people with the idea that everyone who wants a different TLJ is an entitled white male. I have seen plenty of dislike for TLJ on Resetera, and I have not seem any of it stemming from a sexist or racist place. Some of it even comes from black posters who are upset with how Finn was handled in TLJ (and rightfully so). I understand that TLJ is receiving hate from the alt-right, but it isn't happening here, and the notion that all of the ill will towards TLJ stems from such people is a fantasy perpetuated by those who want to pretend the movie has no legitimate flaws. Consistently suggesting on this forum that all of the dislike for TLJ boils down to angry nerdy bigots is rather insulting considering the hundreds of posters who have voiced their legitimate gripes with the movie on this considerably liberal forum
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I believe it's an edit of an actual piece of dialogue from Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
edit: yep:
Ding ding ding
We got a winner
Another winner
People who still get hyped for new Star Wars stuff desperately need to believe that, but if that were the case then the backlash for TFA would have been bigger than the one for TLJ. One of the most common complaints I've seen about TLJ is that Finn is underutilized.
It's because these fans treat Star Wars as such an integral part of their identity. Anything they perceive as flawed with it has to be internalized, and that can deliver a blow to their psyche.
I disagree completely and I think the notion of unfulfillable expectations in creative work doesn't pan out. When writing, options are limitless. When writing a sequel, properly following up prior work is required. ESB does this masterfully, TLJ does it questionably. Most of my complaints about TLJ come directly from how it was written, and are not tied to TFA in any way
I do however, see a trend that once it's established that there are legit reasons to dislike TLJ beyond racism/sexism, it starts to become a TLJ vs TFA issue. I don't think that should be the case and I'm surprised so many TLJ fans are ready to throw TFA under the bus. I'm guessing such fans did not like that TFA was "more of the same" and like TLJ because it was "different". I also suspect a contingent of TLJ fans are more or less fans of Johnson's work rather than the movie itself, thus the quips about JJ and mystery boxes come into play. I don't have much experience with either author's prior work so I'm not sure how different their approaches are beyond what I see in these two movies
Honestly this might be smartest way to handle a potential Snoke exposition that I've read. Kind of like Obi-Wan briefly describing Darth Vader in ANH.
I wish every movie that was less than stellar would get a fan based offering to make a retake.
Imagine the Austin Powers movies all being equally amazing or any Leslie Nielsen flick reshot for better effect.
TLJ is what it is, Star Wars fans. Just let it be what it is now. You dont see people get hellfired over the Star Trek reboot's?
Imagine the Austin Powers movies all being equally amazing or any Leslie Nielsen flick reshot for better effect.
TLJ is what it is, Star Wars fans. Just let it be what it is now. You dont see people get hellfired over the Star Trek reboot's?
Uwe Boll is no Tommy Wiseau. If you're going to make the best, you have to get the best.
My jerk-knee reaction when reading this, I swear to God, was: "(s)he's totally talking about Victor Hugo"
Then two posts later I was right.
Many years ago, I once read Les Misérables unabridged. It took me 5 years off and on but I did it. God that book was difficult to slog through.
Why not both?
Wiseau as the writer and Uwe Boll as the director!
Guilty as charged.
l'Homme qui rit is a kind of a nice story and the analysis is interesting and everything but dear god do 1 or the other!
I refuse to believe this guy was celebrated for his writing because he was supposedly a storyteller.
Like kids bag on Zola for being overwrought with descriptions and shit but at least ALL the descriptions have a direct relation with what's fucking happening.
And you cemented what I thought about Les Misérables, I'm never going to read that.
93 is going to be the final part of my deep dive into Hugo.
Oh, some do, trust me. Trek's just a smaller fanbase so it's harder to tell (and thankfully nobody went after any of the castmembers of Star Trek Into Darkness directly).
Oh come now! TLJ couldn't possibly be this bad. I mean it does have it's flaws, but I personally enjoyed this film as much as the TFA and the original trilogy.
It's honestly understandable that people will have different opinions and will not like some things that others like. Like for me I don't care for the Fast and the Furious and never got the appeal, but it has its fans.
But this is something else! This has got to be one of the worst fan bases that I have witnessed. It made my blood boil when I read about when Daisy Ridley and Kelly Marie Tran being harassed on Instagram.
Wouldn't really trust them to make a any film.
It's honestly understandable that people will have different opinions and will not like some things that others like. Like for me I don't care for the Fast and the Furious and never got the appeal, but it has its fans.
But this is something else! This has got to be one of the worst fan bases that I have witnessed. It made my blood boil when I read about when Daisy Ridley and Kelly Marie Tran being harassed on Instagram.
Wouldn't really trust them to make a any film.
This is so patently untrue it's hilarious and betrays an inatentiveness to actual storytelling. Not only is Snoke 100% portrayed as a mystery to be solved in TFA (this isn't a debate, just rematch the scene where he is introduced) characters like Rey know next nothing about him in TLJ and there is every reason for others who do know more to inform other characters heading into opposition to him. There isn't even any proof that characters who know more about him know everything that there is or they need to know. That assumption is just that an assumption.
Snoke is the mover of the entire ST, of course he's setup to beg explanation because he's what loved the story from point A (the end of the OT where we left it) to point B (the situation that the ST picks up in)
Exposition is figuring out how to satisfactorily answer audience questions to do with the film in a natural way even when you're characters already know things.
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Only two things bothered me about The Last Jedi, but not enough to really care:
1) Opening Hux / Poe banter - I really didn't mind the banter, but it just dragged a little long. A quick quip was all Poe needed
2) Space Leia
1) Opening Hux / Poe banter - I really didn't mind the banter, but it just dragged a little long. A quick quip was all Poe needed
2) Space Leia
In Les Misérables, Victor Hugo spends 100 pages, no joke, going over the history of the covent where Jean Valjean and Cosette end up hiding after being chased by Jalvert. It adds absolutely NOTHING to the plot!
The only Zola I've read was Germinal and that was required reading in High School. But I really, really loved it. I need to read more of his books.
Anyway, back on topic... Lol at that Misery reference above. It's actually quite fitting!
The Misery reference is probably the best summation of everything that happened with Star Wars post Disney buy out.
I tend to compare Zola to Hugo because they're both very verbose but Zola actually has a goal in his writting beyond just padding word count.
And I maintain that this is relevant to the topic because people complaining about world building to me looks like they want a Victor Hugo esque script of Star Wars.
Like let's spend 50 pages on describing the possessions of the senators and why the supreme chancellor really needs 20 aides that are paid handsomely in rare animals that are from rare breed from half a galaxy away.
The guy must never had had any trouble getting his kids to sleep if his bedtime stories were like that.
Victor Hugo, master of World building!
I tend to compare Zola to Hugo because they're both very verbose but Zola actually has a goal in his writting beyond just padding word count.
And I maintain that this is relevant to the topic because people complaining about world building to me looks like they want a Victor Hugo esque script of Star Wars.
Like let's spend 50 pages on describing the possessions of the senators and why the supreme chancellor really needs 20 aides that are paid handsomely in rare animals that are from rare breed from half a galaxy away.
The guy must never had had any trouble getting his kids to sleep if his bedtime stories were like that.
^^I think people just want something similar to the conference room scene in episode 4. We get a ton of exposition about the world, but in a way that feels natural (politicians / army guys arguing about politics). I don't think Star Wars fans necessarily want 50 pages of exposition à la Hugo ("Rien ne ressemblait plus, il y a un demi-siècle, à la première porte cochère venue que la porte cochère du numéro 62 de la petite rue Picpus. Cette porte, habituellement entr'ouverte de la façon la plus engageante, laissait voir deux choses qui n'ont rien de très funèbre, une cour entourée de murs tapissés de vigne et la face d'un portier qui flâne..." Zzzzzzzz)
I think everyone would have been satisfied with Leia giving a quick summary of the situation around the hologram projector: "for too long, the Republic has let the remnants of the Empire grovel in the far reaches of the galaxy. They never took their threats seriously but their deafness has paid the ultimate price. We need to take down Starkiller base!"
OK, my prose is really bad, but you get the idea.
I think everyone would have been satisfied with Leia giving a quick summary of the situation around the hologram projector: "for too long, the Republic has let the remnants of the Empire grovel in the far reaches of the galaxy. They never took their threats seriously but their deafness has paid the ultimate price. We need to take down Starkiller base!"
OK, my prose is really bad, but you get the idea.
Your prose is only worse because you don't have 75 pages to expand on it!
After the Prequel I really couldn't give less of a shit about any kind of story involving anything to do with the Prequels.
Between Episode 1 and 2, I think I read about nearly all the EU stuffs I could lay my hands on and basically burned out on actual real bad prose (like seriously for all you from English speaking world, I'm talking the EU but with a translation layer on top of it).
By the time the Prequels were done, I was done with anything to do with Sheev, Darth Vader being a bitchasspunk and all of that.
The ST movies not even giving a nod to these movies and basically working with as much a blank slate as they could was a godsend for me.
Granted there's a middle ground between the ST basically leaving everything to the imagination and the PT spelling out literally everything but I still prefer my imagination to Lucas's.
The OT had it right with giving basic info and letting everyone fill in the blanks.
Have you seen how much money fans would give to realize their dreams?
Star Citizen.
From the website "You DO NOT have to put financial or personal information in, just an email address and a pledge."
It's all make-believe money. No one is paying for anything.
Whenever I hear someone whine about TLJ this is pretty much exactly the sort of movie I assume they wanted instead.
Bravo to that artist. Brilliant.
"Kudos to those responsible."
Has the Twitter handle in the corner of the pic.
And lol.
Holy shit that goes perfect with the Satirical Intro Scrawl I made
LMAO this movie looks ridiculously awesome. I can just see it with a style like from 'Machete'.