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TheBeardedOne

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,189
Derry
Theres a website dedicated to dogs dying in movies

If youre only argument is, "people are crazy if they get upset over imaginary things happening" then I'm not going to give you the time of the day.

These things cause real emotion to real people. Now I'm not fucking crazy, nor do I need to get a life (as some people have suggested), because I couldn't care less about playing a game that makes me a bit uncomfortable.

There's nothing wrong with hating seeing animals die, even in movies or video games where it's fictional. It's a normal human thing for many of us.

But you're talking about a series with animal encounters and hunting, which has had those things since inception AFAIK. At least since FC2. Now that it's dogs, it's awful.

Dogs can be mean and evil you know.

Obligatory: Cats > Dogs
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,826
The difference between reality and a video game? As in, one is real and one isn't? As in, the whole debate over "agency" is absolutely ridiculous in this context because video game characters aren't real have no free will to speak of?

Or you can just be crazy and be mad over nothing.
"Agency" in this sense really doesn't translate well to people who aren't already arguing from the same perspective. When people say that characters don't have "agency," it's not the idea that we should keep the fictional character's fictional feelings and fictional rights in mind, but that any in universe justification of a character's actions is ultimately arbitrary, since the author (be it a single writer of a book, or a whole production team for a video game) holds all the "agency" for all the characters.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
Theres a website dedicated to dogs dying in movies

If youre only argument is, "people are crazy if they get upset over imaginary things happening" then I'm not going to give you the time of the day.

These things cause real emotion to real people. Now I'm not fucking crazy, nor do I need to get a life (as some people have suggested), because I couldn't care less about playing a game that makes me a bit uncomfortable.

That's fine, but saying it's over the line? Nah. There have been plenty of thoroughly counter arguments presented.
 

Alfredo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,023
A lot of people saying you can't compare killing animals to killing bad guy humans... But lots of games let you kill innocent humans, too, and that's still generally acceptable.

Are we gonna say Undertale and Toby Fox hate dogs, too, since you can kill lots of dogs in that game?
 

NewDonkStrong

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
1,990
I think the reason I don't value dogs more than human beings is because I'm only half white. If I was full white, I'd probably be kissing my dog on the mouth and protesting the John Wick franchise.
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
Well, you know, at least this thread is a veritable gold mine for people to put into ignore. Never say there's no silver lining in shitheads crawling out of the woodwork.
 

Deleted member 16908

Oct 27, 2017
9,377
We really gonna compare the non agency of animals who are made victims to violent evil game goons who attack first and say it's the same huh

Maybe I'm just a jaded asshole but I have a hard time seeing anything in the Far Cry games as super obvious AI-controlled 3D models.
I think the reason I don't value dogs more than human beings is because I'm only half white. If I was full white, I'd probably be kissing my dog on the mouth and protesting the John Wick franchise.

Lmao. I know someone who will let his dog lick his face all it wants and even shares food with it (i.e. lets dog take a bite of a slice of pizza, then finishes it himself)

Fucking disgusting.
 

Bishop89

What Are Ya' Selling?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,541
Melbourne, Australia
You know you hunt, skin animals right.

There's even a trophy for punching a bull to death in 5

By the end of the day none of it is real and we can't have everything be rainbows and daisy's.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
Well, you know, at least this thread is a veritable gold mine for people to put into ignore. Never say there's no silver lining in shitheads crawling out of the woodwork.

You'll survive seeing opinions you disagree with my friend. Be strong. Calling people shitheads is the most offensive thing in this thread.
 

Pekola

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,507
Well, you know, at least this thread is a veritable gold mine for people to put into ignore. Never say there's no silver lining in shitheads crawling out of the woodwork.

Well this thread was doomed from the moment the OP gave the title such finality. People see that as a challenge.

I think it's interesting to talk about game design decisions and discuss why and how they can affect the player. Or how some things may be -too- much.

But the rowdiness and generally abrasive nature of gamers/internet is just really not conductive to...well, anything.
 
OP
OP
VinFTW

VinFTW

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,470
Well this thread was doomed from the moment the OP gave the title such finality. People see that as a challenge.

I think it's interesting to talk about game design decisions and discuss why and how they can affect the player. Or how some things may be -too- much.

But the rowdiness and generally abrasive nature of gamers/internet is just really not conductive to...well, anything.
Yeah my OP clearly fucked the tone of the thread, which I regret.

Could have been a decent discussion.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,276
But even in the real world, humans are still considered more important than dogs in the justice system.

That's why murdering a human carries more of a sentence than murdering a dog. They are not the same penalties, and certainly not equivalent crimes against a human child.

That's why Michael Vick got 2 years for being totally convicted of murdering several dogs with concrete proof. If he murdered several humans with concrete proof, it would be way more than that.
And there are still parts of the world where dogs and cats are consumed. It's consitently decreased as pet ownership has increased but it's still a very real cultural thing.

The consumption of living humans is a unanimously taboo practice.

The person these posts are in reply to wasn't talking about how we view humans and animals in the real world, they were talking about how we view them in our media. In media it's much more likely that the death of animal, especially those such as dogs and cats, is seen as inherently more distressing than the death of a human. That doesn't mean the death of a human can't be distressing nor does it mean that the death of an animal can't not be distressing, it just means that the inconsequential death of a dog has a higher chance of garnering a negative reaction than the inconsequential death of a human.

"Agency" in this sense really doesn't translate well to people who aren't already arguing from the same perspective. When people say that characters don't have "agency," it's not the idea that we should keep the fictional character's fictional feelings and fictional rights in mind, but that any in universe justification of a character's actions is ultimately arbitrary, since the author (be it a single writer of a book, or a whole production team for a video game) holds all the "agency" for all the characters.

Yep, it's definitely weird how that argument seems to be so prevalent in this topic when you'd get (rightfully) criticised if you posted "she breaths through her skin," as a justification in a thread criticising Quiet's design from MGSV. The fallacy of "the media says it's fine so it's fine," doesn't go away or become OK because this is something that the Era consensus sees as fine.

I think the reason I don't value dogs more than human beings is because I'm only half white. If I was full white, I'd probably be kissing my dog on the mouth and protesting the John Wick franchise.

So what are you saying here? That because the OP may be white their feelings are somehow less deserving of being held? Should they give up holding any affection towards dogs because it's a "white people thing"? What benefit is there in bringing race into this?
 
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Trisc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,485
I always thought Hirohiko Araki's excuse for why so many dogs die in JoJo was supremely shitty: "They're bad guys, and to show how bad they are, I'm gonna have them kill a puppy!" Dio cooks Jonathan's dalmation in an incinerator, Death 13 cleaves a pup's head in twain, Angelo bites a dog's face off, and so on. I always thought that shit was excessive, and I really like JoJo.

But this? This is a whole other level of garbage. Far Cry 5 missed the mark for reasons wholly different than this, but this ain't helping me think any better of the series, Ubisoft.
 

xir

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,561
Los Angeles, CA
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Haze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,775
Detroit, MI
The person these posts are in reply to wasn't talking about how we view humans and animals in the real world, they were talking about how we view them in our media. In media it's much more likely that the death of animal, especially those such as dogs and cats, is seen as inherently more distressing than the death of a human. That doesn't mean the death of a human can't be distressing nor does it mean that the death of an animal can't not be distressing, it just means that the inconsequential death of a dog has a higher chance of garnering a negative reaction than the inconsequential death of a human

Ah. I think since human death is represented far more often than animal death it's made more people desensitized to violence towards humans.
 

Kewlmyc

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
26,684
This thread is interesting as fuck.

"Don't play this game filled with murdering humans, I hear it has some scenes where dogs have a bad time".

Not even being sarcastic, it's just an interesting point of view to come from.
 

Absolute

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,090
Well, you know, at least this thread is a veritable gold mine for people to put into ignore. Never say there's no silver lining in shitheads crawling out of the woodwork.

Could you quote some posts that you feel it necessary for ignore fellow users? I'd like to know what the line is in this discussion.
 
OP
OP
VinFTW

VinFTW

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,470
This thread is interesting as fuck.

"Don't play this game filled with murdering humans, I hear it has some scenes where dogs have a bad time".

Not even being sarcastic, it's just an interesting point of view to come from.
I never said dont play the game, unless youre talking about others
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
I read the whole article and I didn't think anything in their list was bad at all, with one half exception --

The dogs being strapped with little C4 bomb jackets. I actually laughed out loud when I first read that part and saw the accompanying screenshot, but because it was so ludicrous and crazy.

I'm chinese so the eating dogs part doesn't offend me. As some of you are aware, there are some countries/cultures in the *current day world* who do that. Not just ancient medieval times. One way or another is not right or wrong.

Isn't there some country/cultures where eating cows is considered abominable?? That doesn't mean it's "wrong" when Americans eat beef.
Yeah and some cultures, I think some parts of the US in example, eating horse is sometimes considered a taboo too. Horse meat is great, it's low fat. And while I've never eaten dog myself, I'd be hypocritical if I took an issue with it. I leave that to vegetarians who can call it out without being hypocrites and they can call me out too on my general meat consumption. Shouldn't matter that much if it's pig, cow or dog that I'm eating. Cows and pigs are cute too.
 
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Deleted member 40853

User requested account closure
Banned
Mar 9, 2018
873
Saying "it's not real breh" is just being obtuse. Obviously there is a difference between killing a dog in a JRPG vs vivid depictions of dogs wearing suicide vests and exploding. People wanna just act like media depictions of violence mean nothing. What purpose does this even serve other than some sophomoric "yeah we went THERE, this game is br00tal"? What does this add to the game? Just becuase you can do something doesn't mean you should, and maybe we don't need to trivialize gratuitous violence like this by putting it in games for people to casually consume for entertainment.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,855
I didn't like how FC5 gleefully had you complete missions that involved wanton animal cruelty (like ripping off bull's testicles). I think there is a difference between the situation where a game allows you to choose to kill innocents - whether humans or animals - and when it actively encourages you to engage in unjustified cruelty.
 

TheBeardedOne

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,189
Derry
Saying "it's not real breh" is just being obtuse. Obviously there is a difference between killing a dog in a JRPG vs vivid depictions of dogs wearing suicide vests and exploding. People wanna just act like media depictions of violence mean nothing. What purpose does this even serve other than some sophomoric "yeah we went THERE, this game is br00tal"? What does this add to the game? Just becuase you can do something doesn't mean you should, and maybe we don't need to trivialize gratuitous violence like this by putting it in games for people to casually consume for entertainment.

It's a postapocalyptic world. It makes sense that some people would eat dog. Food is scarce.

Secondly, it highlights how deranged the Highwaymen are. Call of Duty had attack dogs also.
 

Soulstoner

Member
Oct 27, 2017
583
This thread is interesting as fuck.

"Don't play this game filled with murdering humans, I hear it has some scenes where dogs have a bad time".

Not even being sarcastic, it's just an interesting point of view to come from.
I feel much more for the suffering of animals than I do for humans. I'd rather have dogs than kids, and I'd choose my dog over someone's child if I had to choose to save one from dying. There are plenty like myself that feel the same.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
Saying "it's not real breh" is just being obtuse. Obviously there is a difference between killing a dog in a JRPG vs vivid depictions of dogs wearing suicide vests and exploding. People wanna just act like media depictions of violence mean nothing. What purpose does this even serve other than some sophomoric "yeah we went THERE, this game is br00tal"? What does this add to the game? Just becuase you can do something doesn't mean you should, and maybe we don't need to trivialize gratuitous violence like this by putting it in games for people to casually consume for entertainment.
It adds an enemy type, that moves fast and is harder to hit because of their size (so it's enemy variety, games are often criticized for the lack of it). It's also enemy type that kinda makes sense. As similar things have been used in real world.
 
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TheBeardedOne

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,189
Derry
Attack dogs vs mutilated dogs bred from birth with suicide vests

I get what you're saying, and will admit that I cringed a bit when I saved the dog and saw what they'd done to the others. But it is just a game, and it's a game where you kill loads of humans AND animals. Dogs are just a portion. Far Cry has always been about hunting, and it's not the only series.

It also makes sense given the setting. Maybe not the vests, but the enemies are deranged so there's at least something there.

Look, I love animals, and come from a family that hunts whereas I don't. I could never hunt, let alone kill an animal and never have outside of a raccoon that ran into my wheel as I drove up a hill. But it's a video game.
 

Nintendo

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,367
This thread is interesting as fuck.

"Don't play this game filled with murdering humans, I hear it has some scenes where dogs have a bad time".

Not even being sarcastic, it's just an interesting point of view to come from.

Yeah, and not any game. It's Far Cry.

I feel much more for the suffering of animals than I do for humans. I'd rather have dogs than kids, and I'd choose my dog over someone's child if I had to choose to save one from dying. There are plenty like myself that feel the same.

You'd save a dog over a child?
 

Deleted member 41931

User requested account closure
Member
Apr 10, 2018
3,744
I always thought Hirohiko Araki's excuse for why so many dogs die in JoJo was supremely shitty: "They're bad guys, and to show how bad they are, I'm gonna have them kill a puppy!" Dio cooks Jonathan's dalmation in an incinerator, Death 13 cleaves a pup's head in twain, Angelo bites a dog's face off, and so on. I always thought that shit was excessive, and I really like JoJo.
At least Danny being cooked didn't go to waste
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