https://www.yahoo.com/news/germany-reels-far-mobs-rampage-101509991.html?guccounter=1
Read the article. Biggest talking point in Germany right now. Fuel to the fire for both sides and I don't really know the endgame to all of this.
Far-right protesters clash with anti-Nazi activists in German city of Chemnitz
- Thread starter sanstesy
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/germany-reels-far-mobs-rampage-101509991.html?guccounter=1
Read the article. Biggest talking point in Germany right now. Fuel to the fire for both sides and I don't really know the endgame to all of this.
Saxon police are incompetent idiots. Well, partly by design I'm sure. Sending only 300 police officers against 5000 protestors full of neo-nazis is laughable shit.
Those nazis are able to do whatever they want and the police does nothing. Saxony is a fucking joke and deserves all shit it gets.
I still remember far-right idiots talking about how much worse the police would be to them if they protested like the far-left protestors at G20. Looks like it's the opposite to me. What a surprise.
Those nazis are able to do whatever they want and the police does nothing. Saxony is a fucking joke and deserves all shit it gets.
I still remember far-right idiots talking about how much worse the police would be to them if they protested like the far-left protestors at G20. Looks like it's the opposite to me. What a surprise.
What do you mean by both sides?
I've only seen it talked about in a context against the Nazis. It's shocking, that they went on a fucking immigrant hunt.
It's also shocking that there's so much video and photographic evidence of the police ignoring people who did the Hitler salute.
But the kicker? Whenever Antifa hits the deck anywhere, be it G20 or any other Demonstration, they're there with Water Cannons. None of those were here, not to mention their shockingly low numbers.
It's almost, as if there's plenty of Nazis within the ranks of the police as well. Combined with the Hatguy from a few days ago, this casts an incredibly bad light on the East German police forces in General.
The biggest irony in this goddamn case is, that according to all currently available reports, David, the victim of the stabbing, is of Cuban descent, has a German mother, and was on the left spectrum when it comes to politics. Were the culprits not "immigrants", Nazis would be celebrating his death. Now they're instrumentalizing it.
I've only seen it talked about in a context against the Nazis. It's shocking, that they went on a fucking immigrant hunt.
It's also shocking that there's so much video and photographic evidence of the police ignoring people who did the Hitler salute.
But the kicker? Whenever Antifa hits the deck anywhere, be it G20 or any other Demonstration, they're there with Water Cannons. None of those were here, not to mention their shockingly low numbers.
It's almost, as if there's plenty of Nazis within the ranks of the police as well. Combined with the Hatguy from a few days ago, this casts an incredibly bad light on the East German police forces in General.
The biggest irony in this goddamn case is, that according to all currently available reports, David, the victim of the stabbing, is of Cuban descent, has a German mother, and was on the left spectrum when it comes to politics. Were the culprits not "immigrants", Nazis would be celebrating his death. Now they're instrumentalizing it.
Afd will probably rule saxony soon. Will be interesting to see how theh will do. Afd members are already takjing about purging the justice system.
Bavaria is next. CSU is already thinking about a coalition with afd.
They also don't think it's necessary to detain someone doing the Hitler salute (which is a criminal offense in Germany).
https://twitter.com/PolizeiSachsen/status/1034397770734612480
Wait, the Gegendemonstranten/counter-protestors were just a fraction of the protestors? That's.. Not something I'm used to. Mh.
5000 neonazis, around 1000 counterprotestors. And I've heard that many of those counterprotestors had to come there from Leipzig to reach that number.
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No, the argument is "See? These immigrants are even killing people that are supporting them!" right now. And this whole situation of course will fuel fire on both sides like it always has. Neo-Nazis always take advantage of unfortunate events.
But if there are any nazi symbols in a video game (that is critical towards that regime) it needs to be altered.. sounds like good ol germany to me
While they are obviously right-wing shitheads, I'm not sure if they qualify as neonazis. Wouldn't that make all of them literal criminals? Since it's a pretty serious crime here, I'm a bit careful with that label, I guess.
In any case, these numbers are shameful.
I haven't heard that spin at all. All I see is Nazis trying to romanticise his death, they're not even mentioning that he was of "foreign descent".
There really is no more fire to be fueled, these days, all we're getting right now, is that Saxony Police (and likely the rest of them too) is highly saturated with Nazis. I mean, we already know that they can and will obstruct press freedom, and that they have people inside the LKA with access to very sensible data.
I have very little hope that Merkel will at all move to do anything against it, and it's a very, very scary thought. As is the fact, that we barely seem to have any political support besides Die Linke, and Wagenknecht's silly #aufstehen, which will end up doing more harm than good.
Pretty serious crime? Wanna see the stance of Saxony Police on "pretty serious crime"?
https://twitter.com/PolizeiSachsen/status/1034397770734612480
They're Neo Nazis. And with this, they won't even have to be afraid anymore.
The amount of hitler greetings I've seen in videos makes me lose any urgency in not lumping people in with them who are standing next to those and think: "Yeah, this is the protest I want to be a part of"
We really should stop using that both sides tm when one side is Nazis and rest is everyone else.
Exactly. Anyone who protests with these people is ready to sleep in their bed.
Saxony has had big Neo-Nazi protests for a long time, but what is different now is the AfD. Now there's a party that does not distance itself from them. In fact they called it "peaceful protests", basically promoting it. You could even see a lot of old people (the usual anti-immigration demonstrators in the region) in the midst of them, which is pretty unusual.
The weird thing about Saxony specifically is that it's played the surface level game well. Lowest debt in Germany, best in education, high investments etc, but it completely failed on the side of developing a democratic culture. It never replaced former communist structures and society itself didn't either. After the wall fell they were unable to acknowledge that for several reasons, but later simply out of neglect and incompetence.
And now it's just rooted in everything. From police to sports to those angry mobs.
The thing was that this was basically a reaction to sunday and that was a short amount of time to organise anything.
Let me atleast finish with a positive...
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I mean, that's bullshit, too. Throwing all of East Germany into it is your first problem.
The weird thing about Saxony specifically is that it's played the surface level game well. Lowest debt in Germany, best in education, high investments etc, but it completely failed on the side of developing a democratic culture. It never replaced former communist structures and society itself didn't either. After the wall fell they were unable to acknowledge that for several reasons, but later simply out of neglect and incompetence.
And now it's just rooted in everything. From police to sports to those angry mobs.
Very hard to tell, it definitely didn't look like 5,000.
The thing was that this was basically a reaction to sunday and that was a short amount of time to organise anything.
Let me atleast finish with a positive...
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These were literal Neo-Nazis. NPD, Kaotic Chemnitz, Identitäre, Der III. Weg, they were all there. You can speculate how many of the protesters see themselves as that, but that's kind of a waste of time if you march with them.
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No, that spin exists since forever. Read up on other forums and recent twitter threads. One big "selling point" of neo-nazis is that refugees/immigrants don't like you no matter if you support them or not.
Sickening....
Like... can we not just hold individuals accountable for their actions instead of using their ethnicity to demonize an entire group of people
Does it matter that the murderer came from Syria? Am I supposed to believe that any murderer is a product of their ethnic background? I HATE that shit
Does Germany somehow not have murderers of German descent? I guess Germany should relinquish their sovereignty
Like... can we not just hold individuals accountable for their actions instead of using their ethnicity to demonize an entire group of people
Does it matter that the murderer came from Syria? Am I supposed to believe that any murderer is a product of their ethnic background? I HATE that shit
Does Germany somehow not have murderers of German descent? I guess Germany should relinquish their sovereignty
Also lol @ the police not detaining people doing the Hitler greetings, after they just recently held journalists for nearly an hour because some far-right dumbass (who was also member of the LKA) started insulting them and made up some shit that's not actionable. Truly a beacon of impartiality, I feel.
I'm all over the place, Facebook, Twitter, etc. Forums really aren't good way to find proper takes on this, especially not english language ones.
Worked with a couple of people to kill their ambitions to bring back protests in my city, so far it's worked pretty well.
That one cut out the cops standing left and right, doing nothing. It's really disheartening.
Oh, obviously, they are all absolute trash people, no matter why they chose to attend that demonstration, there is no good reason. I guess I'm just uncomfortable with labeling people as nazis because, like I said, nazis are literally criminals here, which always caused me to make a distinction between them and "just" racist, ignorant, hateful shitheads. But I don't want to derail, sometimes semantics discussions are important, but not here.
I hate seeing these pictures. Every time, so many people get away with this shit.
If it talks like a Nazi, walks like a Nazi, and smells like a Nazi, it may just be a fucking Nazi.
Call things by their names. They're walking alongside Neo Nazis. Anyone who doesn't want to be associated would be leaving after the first dozen Hitler Salutes.
Good lord people, your fucking country was reduced to rubble the last time you allowed this shit to take over.
Totally unrelated: did you know that Chemnitz is also the #1 Crystal Meth city in Europe according to EU sewage tests?
I am calling things by their names, and I think it's not productive to give up all nuance even between horrible people.
There is still a difference between neo nazis and your average horrible shithead racist. It may be small, but "glorifying Hitler" and "thinking the nazis were right" are still factors that makes a difference to me, because those people are criminals and can and should be legally punished.
Cops keep showing their true colors. As someone who used to have no issue with the police, this sort of shit has been truly enlightening. Always expect pigs to side with pigs.
They are nazis. It is illegal. The police has no interest in enforcing the law. That's the problem.
They are nazis. It is illegal. The police has no interest in enforcing the law. That's the problem.
Many are nazis and need to be punished, yes. And the police being racist shits who enable this behaviour is the problem, yes. But exactly because it's illegal, I don't like making a claim that all 5000 people are criminals.
They are all scum, but they are probably not all criminals under current law.
But again: It doesn't matter. Let's not derail this any more with my differing standards of when to use the word.
Maybe one thing to add, they started 10 investigations because of Hitler salutes: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deuts...ngsverfahren-wegen-hitlergruss-a-1225294.html
I would say marching with them is a pretty good way to identify them.
Since you've said that a few times now: it's not exactly illegal to be a Neo-Nazi. You can't use those symbols, deny the holocaust or form a terror organisation, but you can absolutely hold those fews. The lines are blurry. Where do do start to be one? Member of the Identitarian movement? Member of the NPD? Talking shit on right-wing facebook groups?
I would say marching with them is a pretty good way to identify them.
I do. Marching with nazis means you're a nazi. Tough shit, better use your brain next time.
If you're involved in a murder standing around cheering the killer on, you don't get to go "oh I had nothing to do with this".
That's bullshit. They're fucking Nazis, they're mingling with Nazis. The fuck more do you need? "Oh they're just racists" - Fuck no, they aren't just racists.
By the way, you may be misunderstanding this: Being a Nazi is not illegal. It's only Volksverhetzung when you sing their songs, wear their Symbols, and do the Hitler Salute. Just being a Nazi is not "illegal" or punishable by law.
Nazis on the rise in America, Germany... umm, are we going through the 1930s all over again?? This is stomach turning.
Maybe not in Germany? I'm Austrian. I'm talking about my views, shaped by Austrian society.
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Living in Chemnitz, it was pretty scary to see this all developing. I am very quick to call the protesters Nazis myself but the reality is that the AfD is simply very good at catching "normal" people who might have a lower education level and are afraid of certain things changing around them. They are not inherently bad, but get indoctrinated by effective and short messages, it's pretty comparable to the Trump situation actually.
We're talking about Germany. Your quoute is referring to political parties and activities (that's exactly what I was talking about, sing their songs, do their salute, wear their insignia) the sole fact of being a Nazi and just skirting around these punishable offenses is not illegal.
Evidence? Links? Anything?
Also, normal people who are willing to protest and mingle with Nazis may just be fucking Nazis. Mind blowing, I know.
Rich people need to protect their interests and separate people from organizing against them somehow. They're in panic mode and thus turning to their only means of staying in control; pushing fascism.
Yes, that's how nazi propaganda works. You turn the weak against the weak by promising one side they'll reach up to your level once the even weaker people are gone. Then you kill everyone who is against you or threatens your cash flow regardless. People should know this by now and not keep falling for it but keeping this idea out of public discourse is literally the point of right wing "centrism". Paint criticisms like these against right wing politics as "radical" and "extreme" in order to leave the door open for fascism when the need arises. There's a reason other previously "liberal" right wing parties are so quick to side with nazis whenever they have to.
Moderaterna here in Sweden used to be a staunchly anti-racist globally oriented capitalist party – one election cycle later and they are literally parotting nazi propaganda. Gee whiz I sure didn't see that coming!
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I'm talking about why I wouldn't use the word:
Which is why I repeatedly tried to drop this. I merely wanted to point out that under the laws I know, I wouldn't/can't call a racist mob of 5000 "all nazis". It's an incredibly strong word in my experience, the "top" word, so to say, there is nothing worse.
But yeah, just "being" a nazi without doing all the nazi things is not illegal. It couldn't be, obviously. Can't make something that doesn't show in any of your actions illegal.
Like I said, I can easily condemn these people without being certain they are nazis. I'm not comfortable using the term even for horrible people as long as the lines are blurry, in their cases. Everyone who does the salute is one. Everyone who says things in defense of Hitler or his government is one. Everyone who denies the holocaust is one. But I just feel uncomfortable using this strongest of condemning titles without clear signs. I'm sorry.
Let's please drop this. I just wanted to say that I'm a bit "stingy" with this word. It's so huge and immense for me.
I feel like you think I'm defending these people, which I don't mean to do, at all. They are scum and I want to stop derailing this thread. If you want to discuss this with me, feel free to PM me.
I was thinking I'd see them in use. I haven't heard, seen or read anything about them being in use. Not to mention that, according to the Twitter thread there, these were pulled up for the Counter Demonstration. NOT the actual Neo Nazis.
I changed the tweet to show them "in action". They were literally right next to the rightwing protest. But both were just on opposite sides of the street anyway.
The police was really understaffed which was why they didn't do shit all night, they wouldn't have been able to control it.