No see, you were supposed to discuss with them in their beloved comments section. Maybe change some minds, meet people in the middle. Wouldn't that have been swell?
(I know this is an old post but whatever)
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Fascism, alt-right/nazis & the importance of de-platforming |OT|
- Thread starter IrishNinja
- Start date
No see, you were supposed to discuss with them in their beloved comments section. Maybe change some minds, meet people in the middle. Wouldn't that have been swell?
(I know this is an old post but whatever)
the just world fallacy is a hell of a drug. if you believe that fascists can't genuinely intend to do the bad things they state because that would be bad and bad things can't happen within your sphere, then you're primed to be told scary bedtime stories about the ~radical left~
i really need to think of a more diplomatic way to say that if i ever wanna use it in conversation though. "I can understand wanting to see the best in people, but these groups are stating their intentions very plainly and have literally killed people. They're using the idea of antifa as a bogeyman to distract from their own desire to hurt people?"
plus, a lot of people seem to have a hard time believing that life experiences different than their own exist. see: how tons of discussions on racism or sexism degenerate into people telling the victim they're imagining things.
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This was always a part of this de-platforming discussion that some people entirely missed. Platforms weren't just where someone could speak, platforms are where someone can monetize. When allowing their speech either directly or indirectly funds the ideals in it, it's not just about speech anymore, it's about removing monetary incentives from that speech. Most of them would abandon YouTube in a heartbeat if they couldn't make any money from it anymore, and YouTube is the alt-right's most effective recruitment tool.
While I think there are examples where taking away a megaphone is just an absolute good idea (looking at you, David Duke), de-platforming to me is all about demonetization. It hurts them badly.
This is why when online monetization started to shrink, every alt-right shitheel wanted to write a book in the hopes of finding a revenue source that couldn't be taken away from them as easily. As an "academic", that was Jordan Peterson's first move, for example, because that's how academics typically make their money. They wanted a small piece of the lucrative Fox News demographic and scrambled for every avenue to get it, including advertising themselves on Fox News when they became popular enough to earn an appearance there.
Keep drying up their funding and many of them likely won't bother to continue. As sad as it is, some of them only spout fascist and alt-right propaganda because there's money to be made.
It's part of why I've had a lingering thought about why Anita Sarkeesian was such a tipping point for a lot of this shit happening online: they weren't mad about what she was making, they were mad that she found a way to make a living by having an opinion they disagreed with. Then they decided they could do the same, to the detriment of society. I can't really say for sure that's true, but it rings true in a way where I haven't entirely given up on the idea, even though I doubt it to be an idea with much merit.
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Not sure if this is thread worthy, but it's a pretty nice piece on the recent success of deplatforming and doxxing.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...nst-the-violent-far-right-and-started-winning
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...nst-the-violent-far-right-and-started-winning
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meant to post this earlier, cheers
also shame to see nate silver showing his ass on this issue lately but there it is
How much as anyone here been reporting YouTube videos? How about reporting videos to advertisers.
If we can go after PewDiePie with the latter, we might see some results.
If we can go after PewDiePie with the latter, we might see some results.
The alt-right and internet culture which preceded it always seemed chock full of young libertarians and wanna-be Trumpian capitalists - money equals social acceptance and cultural clout. Cash means you are correct. I think there could be something to the notion in that many, many people became hostile towards Sarkeesian before she even said a word, based purely on how much money was given to someone who was, A: a woman, and B: a woman who was visibly coded as not sharing their cultural values.
The alt-right and monetization provides a path for such people to become successful and experience validation of their world view. It seems pretty common in that culture for people to market and present themselves as far more successful than they really are - it's a big part of the image. Aside from basic income and survival issues, I think there could be a lot of psychological weight behind deplatforming.
To draw a knowing simplification, the leftist sees platforms as method of sharing ideas, and thus resists deplatforming under the assumption that it harms the idea of ideas. It is a matter of principle, if somewhat abstract. The alt-right member by comparison sees platforms as a method for attaining status. And from status, success. And from success, validation by a society viewed as a shallow and ruthless capitalist cult.
Because the status-seeker doesn't care about ideas (or the consequences of them), they will say anything so long as it gains them status and power of some kind. And we come back to the paradox of tolerance that a lot of liberal, intellectual, and leftist persons seem to have trouble coming to grips with. Deplatforming is not about killing ideas or discourse. It is about stopping an exploitative individual from using a platform to gain power at society's expense.
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i 100% see the growing presence of TPUSA as a cover for it, and the fact that so many universities don't wanna take a harder stance with them - despite the overtly racist stuff coming from multiple chapters, candace's recent hitler defense force fuckery, etc - speaks volumes
A local college got some white nationalist fliers put up about a year or two ago, and that caused a small stir. Some dude has also been putting up Identity Evropa fliers downtown, which have swiftly been taken down.
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Why is Splinter even censoring the names of the guilty?
Why the fuck do they need any sort of privacy?
On the topic of deplatforming, I AM all for it.
I am also a supporter of secretly trying to get people out of these hydra groups. And trust me, there are many succesful examples of people using compassion to change people around and disavow white facism. It's definitely dangerous and risky as hell, but the results are undeniable.
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The trick is that the most successful attempts at this are done by people who dug themselves out of the trenches. The rest of us simply are NOT equipped to do it, for a variety of different reasons.
The BBC has just launched a channel for Scotland and decided to have a panel show featuring Count Dankula, if you remember him (taught his girlfriend's dog to do a Hitler salute).
Episodes with him, after a backlash, have been cancelled.
More here: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...hows-featuring-maker-of-dog-nazi-salute-video
Count Dankula's opinions, who is also a UKIP member, are VERY marginal in Scotland... for now. Unless the BBC keeps normalising alt-right darlings.
Episodes with him, after a backlash, have been cancelled.
More here: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...hows-featuring-maker-of-dog-nazi-salute-video
Count Dankula's opinions, who is also a UKIP member, are VERY marginal in Scotland... for now. Unless the BBC keeps normalising alt-right darlings.
His views might be marginal but there's a huge disingenuous group of people online and irl who will defend him under the guise of "free speech" which allows his fringe views to become more normalized.
"He's not a Nazi. It was a joke!" is a constant refrain from that crowd.
He's since been removed from the show ain't he? I think I read that on The Scotsman
Yeah but you know people will come out of the wood-work to defend him and shout "censorship" like it's some magic word.
Good read and absolutely agree.
I think there is a bit of a catch 22 in that you have to be informed on the views of the person you want to deplatform or else you look like this guy:
Not being able to actual connect the guy to any alt right ideas is a really bad look and ultimately hurts the movement while helping the opposition.
Also have to be really careful that deplatforming fascism doesnt evolve into "deplatform anyone I disagree with"
I think there is a bit of a catch 22 in that you have to be informed on the views of the person you want to deplatform or else you look like this guy:
Not being able to actual connect the guy to any alt right ideas is a really bad look and ultimately hurts the movement while helping the opposition.
Also have to be really careful that deplatforming fascism doesnt evolve into "deplatform anyone I disagree with"
Oh yeah, it's only censorship to them when you stop white fucks like Dankula saying Gas the Jews or whatever tired shit they trot out.
Fuck them all into the sun.
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