Fate/Grand Order |OT3| Two More Years Until No More Welfare

Shinogu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
151
Just did the CQ with a Turtle team and popping on one Choco at a time. It took 142 turns but I did it .\ , /.
I didn't count how long it took for me, but it was pretty slow too bc I was doing the same strategy, with Double Merlin and Abigail. Thanks, Double Merlin. >_>

Now to debate if I wanna get the last pile of 3* embers from the shop or head back out of the event and do some bond leveling at the usual places.
 

Antiwhippy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,149
Hmm, hard to say. Okita and Musashi might not be entirely viable in JP at the moment as ST Sabers anyway, but I think that's just because neither of them have ever had buffs, which is something they kind of need (and in Musashi's case I'd be shocked if she doesn't get one in the future given that she keeps showing up during the Lostbelts). Bride and Beni are weird cases, because they're offensive supports who can do a decent job as primary damage dealers, but most of the time their strongest role is using their skills to help someone else.

While Caesar is now much stronger than he used to be, and arguably one of the best ST Sabers thanks to this buff, keep in mind his gimmick is the same as Anne & Mary's, where he needs to have taken substantial damage in order to be the most effective. This is incredibly dangerous for two specific reasons:
  • Caesar has no defensive skills whatsoever
  • As a 3* Servant, without grails he caps out at level 70, and even with 3* Fous, his HP tops out at 10.5k
This makes using him in this fashion risky, because you have to build a team that allows him to get thoroughly damaged but not die in order to make the most of his NP buff, which is a lot of set up work that most of the other ST Sabers you mentioned do not need. You might be able to put out terrific damage if you succeed, but it's a play that might not be worth it given the level of difficulty of Lostbelt content, where I hear random crits abound that can just annihilate Servants (farming might be a different story, but why would you use a ST for farming anyway?). But Caesar's buff is nice for F2P and new players, who might not have that kind of firepower in the roster and could use someone with serious DPS to handle the latest content (especially because he's easy to max out his NP level), but does he destroy the tier lists of the ST Sabers entirely? I'm not convinced, and even if it did, DW's only one buff away from changing that ranking again.
No, his gimmick is bypassed by having someone who can buff your success rate, and by now fgo is full of them.
 

Semblance

Member
Oct 26, 2017
244
So I'm not the only one who fell behind on the point ladder, I take it? I'm not as stressed as I was last event but not being able to get those attack fous is still a bummer. Guess I shouldn't be surprised an event based around Semiramis wound up sucking ass.

Might still be able to get two at least, if I push it a bit harder. But meh.
 

lokiduck

The Fallen
Mar 27, 2019
2,891
Washington
I didn't count how long it took for me, but it was pretty slow too bc I was doing the same strategy, with Double Merlin and Abigail. Thanks, Double Merlin. >_>

Now to debate if I wanna get the last pile of 3* embers from the shop or head back out of the event and do some bond leveling at the usual places.
I did Jeanne, Tamamo, Waver, Support Merlin, and back up that did matter including Mash. XD Waver got nuked turn one. XD

RIP Waver for your sacrifice. v , v

I don't know why I do this to myself, but I really love running CQ teams were all of the NP are support based. XD I guess I get some sort of sick thrill out of fights taking 100+ turns. XD
 

Antiwhippy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,149
Welp done with the ladder.

Do excess chocolate convert to anything? Still got some silver shop items I want that I need to farm for.
 

Alkez

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,933
I guess what I'm trying to ask is, how redundant does this actually make Okita, Musashi, Bride, Benienma, etc. for most scenarios?
Baka's analysis was pretty on point. He doesn't really. His stats are limited being a 3* (health and defence are pretty important in the future as Baka mentioned) and he needs a fair amount of team help. The other major ST sabers are fairly self serving and can do more than explode for one turn. As you stated in your next post his main application is lancer boss farming from what I've seen so far.
 

Antiwhippy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,149
I mean that's how I use any ST Saber.

If anything I barely use any ST Saber.

Nero bride is more useful as a buffer than a main attacker lmao.

He straight up out damages most ST sabers unless you NP5 a limited SSR. All other arguments are redundant honestly.
 

Liv

Member
Aug 20, 2019
268
This ladder sucks. I'm at 54M chocolates so should be done soon.. but damn what a grind.

On a positive note, since today is Valentine's Day I put together my valentine best girls support list!



Favorite VD scene: Eresh. The more I interact with her the more I see how precious she is
Favorite CE: Bride. The white chocolate heart in the middle of the bouquet is just beautiful.
Most tasty looking CE: Mash. That cake looks simply delish!
 

Kewlmyc

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,897
I've almost given up on the chocolate ladder. There's no grails involved with this event right? I'm willing to skip golden fous and lores due to being so burnt out.
 

Chrono

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,012
Nope, no grail beyond the one you get for completing the story for the event. Beyon that, it's materials, QP, the golden Fou, and Lore.
 

Antiwhippy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,149
Also seriously though I feel like I didn't really play this event that much?

Setsuban and Christmas was more draining lol.

I barely made a dent on my apples and I'm already done.
 

Articalys

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,629
Baka's analysis was pretty on point. He doesn't really. His stats are limited being a 3* (health and defence are pretty important in the future as Baka mentioned) and he needs a fair amount of team help. The other major ST sabers are fairly self serving and can do more than explode for one turn. As you stated in your next post his main application is lancer boss farming from what I've seen so far.
I mean that's how I use any ST Saber.

If anything I barely use any ST Saber.

Nero bride is more useful as a buffer than a main attacker lmao.

He straight up out damages most ST sabers unless you NP5 a limited SSR. All other arguments are redundant honestly.
So which way is it? Has he really obsoleted the SR/SSR Sabers used for boss killing? And in a double Skadi team does that mean he's now more useful than even options like Melt or Rider Kintoki for killing a bulky Berserker boss?
 

Antiwhippy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,149
So which way is it? Has he really obsoleted the SR/SSR Sabers used for boss killing? And in a double Skadi team does that mean he's now more useful than even options like Melt or Rider Kintoki for killing a bulky Berserker boss?
Yeah pretty much. Like his NP refund isn't amazing but with double skadi he still gets back 35%, and the 1 million number is such an overkill you use all sorts of other CEs with starting NP that has lower damage but hey, you're still going to kill them and skadi can then supply you with an NP charge to NP back to back.

Honestly at that level of overkill you don't even need double skadi for non-challenge quest related stuff.
 

ekka4shiki

Member
Oct 31, 2017
560
I'm nowhere near clearing the ladder, yikes...

At this point I'm conflicting if I should abandon the ladder altogether and just farm shop currencies instead hmm.
 
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Articalys

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,629
Yeah pretty much. Like his NP refund isn't amazing but with double skadi he still gets back 35%, and the 1 million number is such an overkill you use all sorts of other CEs with starting NP that has lower damage but hey, you're still going to kill them and skadi can then supply you with an NP charge to NP back to back.

Honestly at that level of overkill you don't even need double skadi for non-challenge quest related stuff.
Huh. Would this be the first time that DW gave a 3* servant an upgrade so powerful that players focused only on pure damage potential no longer had reasons to use multiple SR/SSRs across different classes?
 

Echo

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,829
Mt. Whatever
Also seriously though I feel like I didn't really play this event that much?

Setsuban and Christmas was more draining lol.

I barely made a dent on my apples and I'm already done.
Pretty much this. Christmas and Setsubun were wild, soul draining, push you to the limit events. ... but this one? I've been done for days. And my apple burning? Not even close. I still walked away from this event with a net gain in Gold/Silver Apples.

Weird. Next years Murasaki-Valentines event is gonna slaughter people, and worse, I think it has a timegate whereas this one didn't at least.
 

Chrono

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,012
I'm hoping being a Raita fan, Murasaki will come to me easily. That being said, I never did manage a copy of Shuten yet, and I even purchased her Max Factory figure...

In the end, it's all up to the Gacha Gods.
 

Alkez

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,933
So which way is it? Has he really obsoleted the SR/SSR Sabers used for boss killing? And in a double Skadi team does that mean he's now more useful than even options like Melt or Rider Kintoki for killing a bulky Berserker boss?
I think the easiest way of analysing this is to break down the scenario.

Let's say we start with a K Scope, and are running a hyper offence strategy of double skadi + Waver. In this strategy we can get 2 back to back nps and then we have to grind out the last break bar until we can get another np. The only form of defence this team has within 5 or so turns would be Waver's defence buff, unless we're running K Scope Skadis too. Caesar's hp is low as Baka said, this team has no heals, Caesar has average star weight and no real good follow up skills. These factors make the last break bar quite risky, and it's also important to remember that you'll be taking damage between these nps.

This team also goes against the concept of the HO reset strategy which is to three turn. And in CQs this is less viable with the single character lock. Adding to that if an event CE is required then we can't start with K Scope, and have no way to gain more than 1 np quickly. With the majority of Caesar's damage coming from nps his lack of a strong skillset is even more prevalent in this situation.

The reason Kintoki and Melt are so viable is because they can get 3 nps in a row as opposed to 2, as well as having more bulk and better skill sets. In the event CQ scenario their high np gain rate comes into play alongside their higher health, as building a first np without np gaining skills isn't as much of a struggle, and they can then cycle from there.

FGO has gone from having consistent damage and burst damage to having consistent damage, consistent burst damage, and extreme burst damage. Caesar fits into the latter, doing massive amounts of damage while having little to follow up with. Meanwhile most "top tier" dps in JP are in the consistent burst damage section, as currently it's the most viable strategy. Playing with enough aggression that the fight doesn't go on too long, but having enough defence that your team can survive the high amounts of damage that occur in CQs.

Hopefully that all made sense. It's been a while since I've actually got to analyse anything in FGO lmao.
 

ZKenir

Member
Mar 31, 2018
2,138
Done with the event.

------------------------------------

I'm hoping being a Raita fan, Murasaki will come to me easily. That being said, I never did manage a copy of Shuten yet, and I even purchased her Max Factory figure...

In the end, it's all up to the Gacha Gods.
Luckily we're all getting at least one Shuten this year!
 

Magic Kaito

Member
Oct 25, 2017
826
I think the easiest way of analysing this is to break down the scenario.

Let's say we start with a K Scope, and are running a hyper offence strategy of double skadi + Waver. In this strategy we can get 2 back to back nps and then we have to grind out the last break bar until we can get another np. The only form of defence this team has within 5 or so turns would be Waver's defence buff, unless we're running K Scope Skadis too. Caesar's hp is low as Baka said, this team has no heals, Caesar has average star weight and no real good follow up skills. These factors make the last break bar quite risky, and it's also important to remember that you'll be taking damage between these nps.

This team also goes against the concept of the HO reset strategy which is to three turn. And in CQs this is less viable with the single character lock. Adding to that if an event CE is required then we can't start with K Scope, and have no way to gain more than 1 np quickly. With the majority of Caesar's damage coming from nps his lack of a strong skillset is even more prevalent in this situation.

The reason Kintoki and Melt are so viable is because they can get 3 nps in a row as opposed to 2, as well as having more bulk and better skill sets. In the event CQ scenario their high np gain rate comes into play alongside their higher health, as building a first np without np gaining skills isn't as much of a struggle, and they can then cycle from there.

FGO has gone from having consistent damage and burst damage to having consistent damage, consistent burst damage, and extreme burst damage. Caesar fits into the latter, doing massive amounts of damage while having little to follow up with. Meanwhile most "top tier" dps in JP are in the consistent burst damage section, as currently it's the most viable strategy. Playing with enough aggression that the fight doesn't go on too long, but having enough defence that your team can survive the high amounts of damage that occur in CQs.

Hopefully that all made sense. It's been a while since I've actually got to analyse anything in FGO lmao.
Agreed. The quickest way for ST servants to strip down break bars in JP's current meta is by NP looping off quick crits. Summer BB is highly valued because she can enable 3 turns of NPQQ chains.

Having a F2P ST saber that is capable of large numbers was needed given the rarity distribution of the class, but if I already have the support to quick meme and Okita, I still see Okita as the better pick for CQs. Her unstrengthened kit is still really effective. Star draw helps get the ball rolling, and evade is appreciated since Skadi does not offer any defense from her skills. ST quick servants also don't need crazy hard hitting NPs, all that's required is for the NP to bring the boss's HP down to the range for the quick cards to overkill. Actually being able to crit off the quick cards is key. Okita at any NP level can do this well, or even pefectly with summer BB if you restart for 2 quick cards to lock. If Caesar's NP gen or star gen is lacking, he won't be able to replicate that consistently, if at all.

Mushashi is still in a good spot too, even though buster hype had cooled down. She may not do the job as fast as Okita, but few things are safer than double Merlin comps.
 

Antiwhippy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,149
Let's do a bit of research. There's a lot of throwing around assumptions here without any numbers backing it up.

Okita + double skadi, does an NP + 100% crit quick cards brave chain

NP refund is 9%, but no overkill, got to 100% from 100% quick card crits. 53 stars




Caesar + Calamity Jane + double skadi. Calamity jane doesn't provide any buffs that would give caesar more NP gain, she's just there for the buff boost. Caesar get NP + art + quick, with a crit on quick.

NP refund is 35%, safe to say a lot of overkill, only got to 75% but that's because he didn't crit on art. I think it's safe to assume he would get to 100% if he crit on art. Not a full quick brave chain but still got 51 stars.

 

ZKenir

Member
Mar 31, 2018
2,138
I have noticed that Shuten caster needs 108 bones, time to start grinding bones for Shuten once again (in advance!), and stakes for Reines in a year...
 

Magic Kaito

Member
Oct 25, 2017
826
Let's do a bit of research. There's a lot of throwing around assumptions here without any numbers backing it up.

Okita + double skadi, does an NP + 100% crit quick cards brave chain

NP refund is 9%, but no overkill, got to 100% from 100% quick card crits. 53 stars




Caesar + Calamity Jane + double skadi. Calamity jane doesn't provide any buffs that would give caesar more NP gain, she's just there for the buff boost. Caesar get NP + art + quick, with a crit on quick.

NP refund is 35%, safe to say a lot of overkill, only got to 75% but that's because he didn't crit on art. I think it's safe to assume he would get to 100% if he crit on art. Not a full quick brave chain but still got 51 stars.

I'd be using non-MLB BG for Okita. Her NP damage with all of Skadi's skills, her own skill 1, and a plug suit's attack boost will come to around 500,000 at NP1. And this without any boost from plugging in any backline servant that she can have. Having a 4th servant to plug in can get you another 20 star bomb regardless of the support Skadi's CE, even if that 4th servant is completely useless otherwise. (There are more Carp like CEs coming for those who missed it.) Okita should not be holding a Carp since that just wastes her CE slot. Also, if they weren't going to have a backline to plug in, using a quick boost mystic code also seems a bit silly here, due to diminishing returns from having 3 other quick buffs applied. An NP damage up + attack up from the Lostbelt mystic code would've been the better choice for more damage. Even plug suit's attack boost would have benefitted more.

In any case, Okita's internals are broken with her 5 hit quicks so she doesn't need overkill to loop, as demonstrated. Other ST attackers may need it.

Ultimately, Caesar needs to choose between a buff rate booster to plug in or NP RNG/getting damaged. With his NP conditions, I don't think he can loop 3 times like it's nobody's business, which Okita can.
 

Antiwhippy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,149
New meme format



I'd be using non-MLB BG for Okita. Her NP damage with all of Skadi's skills, her own skill 1, and a plug suit's attack boost will come to around 500,000 at NP1. And this without any boost from plugging in any backline servant that she can have. Having a 4th servant to plug in can get you another 20 star bomb regardless of the support Skadi's CE, even if that 4th servant is completely useless otherwise. (There are more Carp like CEs coming for those who missed it.) Okita should not be holding a Carp since that just wastes her CE slot. Also, if they weren't going to have a backline to plug in, using a quick boost mystic code also seems a bit silly here, due to diminishing returns from having 3 other quick buffs applied. An NP damage up + attack up from the Lostbelt mystic code would've been the better choice for more damage. Even plug suit's attack boost would have benefitted more.

In any case, Okita's internals are broken with her 5 hit quicks so she doesn't need overkill to loop, as demonstrated. Other ST attackers may need it.

Ultimately, Caesar needs to choose between a buff rate booster to plug in or NP RNG/getting damaged. With his NP conditions, I don't think he can loop 3 times like it's nobody's business, which Okita can.
I mean it pretty much shows that he can. If I give him a non-MLB Azure magical girl the numbers look pretty good in him actually being able to NP 3 times.

Like that's the thing, that damage just means you have so much more lee way to play around with it.
 

Magic Kaito

Member
Oct 25, 2017
826
What does Caesar's refund from his NP look like without Black Grail's boost, against a Lancer with boss levels of HP, and not a hand that can easily be overkilled for double the refund? And if Summer BB is being assumed to lock cards to loop 3 times, then what's being dropped for this card lock?

I think Caesar can be built to be similar to Okita, but comprises need to be made that will bring his NP damage a lot closer to NP1/2 Okita levels. And this isn't even factoring other perks that he just doesn't have. If breaking a bar gives the boss nasty offensive buffs, Okita can evade those hits for one turn, and has SSR levels of HP to help cushion other blows. If the boss auto-NPs after a break and that NP doesn't piece, Okita can also evade it. Caesar's only form of defense will generally only come from the mystic code you're using, unless to sacrifice turns to build Skadi's NP, or you're using your plug in option for defensive support. Okita's NP will be doing full damage every time it lands since it ignores Def buffs, and each NP has a nifty additional 3-turn Def debuff that lands more often than not (just like Skadi's), which will make her follow-up quick crits all the more powerful. Dantes has a similar NP effect which is one of the reasons he's so ridiculous as an AoE quick servant.

I haven't found a reason yet for why I would want to run Caesar over Okita if break bars are part of the equation and I wanted the job done as cleanly as possible. Okita has some competition now from a free servant and that's good, but I don't think he's able to fully replace her.

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The NA Valentine's event sucks, but the FGO remix of In the Sunlight is never gets old. I have a feeling an older event also had this remix, but I can't remember which.
 

Alkez

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,933
Am I reading this incorrectly or does the event actually end on Monday? Feels like a weird day to end on. The grind has been a lot easier since I finished all the facilities and can now take my fastest 3 turn team on the zerker node, but it's still the worst event I've played imo. Setsubun, while insanely long, was a challenge dungeon as opposed to a monotonous grind.
 

A.J.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,329
What the fuck is this cgi they are using for Tiamat? Not only does it horribly clash with the rest of the show it looks completely different from the cgi they've used to until now.
 
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Aly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,782
Yeah Tiamat looks strange and distracting.

That said the highlight for me was Gil and Ishtar again. I love their interactions so much. Honestly it reminds me that one of my biggest problems with Enkidu is that he’s defined alot by being Gils friend. But they don’t interact a lot and when they do it’s kinda bland. But either of them interacting with Ishtar is peak entertainment.
 

ZKenir

Member
Mar 31, 2018
2,138
Ishtar NP looked cool until she fired it... then the impact was a bit underwhelming, her NP in game has more oomph visually.
 

N_Cryo

Avenger
Nov 6, 2017
1,765
west coast
So I needed one more cute orangette to mlb the CE so I decided to roll on the MHXA banner. Did 3 ten rolls. Got a parvati unexpectedly on the first. Then got back to back MHXAs with the CE. Im not going to continue rolling incase this is a trap. I dont know if this is a sign to pull skadi later or its just because I was watching a lot of clone wars lately. And yet, I do know what this means in the future.

 

Draggyrider

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,176
Finally cleared the shop of items, but I have 10 M Chocolates to go on the ladder XD.

Favourite Valentines so far: Summer Fran, Summer Ishtar, Hokusai