Feeling guilty of flying (Flygskam)

[Munti]

(My first thread ever)
I have the "problem" that I feel extremely guilty when flying with planes because I contribute with that a lot to the pollution of the environment.

This feeling is that prominent that I most of the time refuse to fly somewhere or going on vacation even if I easily had the time and money or got invited. I flew probably around 5-6 times in my life.
I also have to admit that I'm bit scared of flying, and in combination with feeling guilty, it just doesn't make fun to travel long distances. I often use public transports like trains and busses to go away, but if I want to go in warm places during winter or visit exotic places, that's then hardly possible without taking a sabbatical leave.

We've soon a longer weekend ahead of us and I haven't planned anything. A coworker of mine recommended me to use the service of an agency that plans for you a surprise vacation of 3-4 days. First I was very excited of that idea. But then I thought: "Do I have the right to harm the environment that much only so I can have some extra fun for few days?"

I have the feeling that flying shouldn't be used for very casual trips, but only for very special and important occasions. The huge majority of humanity already doesn't fly, so flying for pleasure reasons or to broaden your own horizon is not really a "necessity".

Recently I discovered that there even exists a Swedish term for that, "Flygskam", which basically translates to "shaming for flying". This at least confirmed to me that I'm by far not the only one with these thoughts.
Sure, I do many other stuff that damages the environment and I have no counter-arguments for that.

Honestly I don't know what I want to achieve with this thread. I would like to hear what your thoughts about that topic are. Is it just pure overreaction for my part? Are there other ways and solutions to reduce the damage of travelling?

 

[Carn]

Yep, the Dutch word for it "Vliegschaamte" has become quite known as well over here. I do agree, sometimes tickets are so cheap, you're basically only paying some aiport taxes. And I don't like flying.

I don't agree with that you only should fly for "very special occasions", because thats totally relative. Some people need to fly a lot for their work, for some people that one citytrip to Lisbon might be "the most special trip in their lives". I do think that low budget flights have to go, just tax the shit out of it and see what happens :P

 

[Sai]

Unless you're hiring a private jet, the plane you'd be riding in would probably be taking off regardless of if you got yourself a ticket or not.

 

[Chivalry]

The plane will fly and pollute whether you're on it or not.

 

[Mendrox]

My thoughts are that I love to visit other countries and my special places are only really reachable by plane (if I don't wanna take a trip which take weeks or months). I went to an environmental school so I don't really mind, because I already did a ton of stuff for the world (projects in africa e.g.) and still do. I don't even have a car so it evens out a bit in that regard.

 

[Nerdyone]

This is so silly. I'm guessing here but I think a huge portion of the population never flies and I have to also guess that cars and manufacturing are bigger pollutants than a plane.

Stop trying to be a special snowflake and get on the plane. You have the time and the money to enjoy the world but you're worked about a plane. For fucks sake

 

[Hooky]

Honestly I don't know what I want to achieve with this thread.

Click to shrink...

Don't have to achieve anything. Sometimes just talking is enough. You have a thing with the wastefulness of flying, someone else is gleefully romping around in dumpsters, it all comes with the territory of being part of the human organism, you know? Maybe you take a hike, with the backpacks and shit. You know, trails.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

(My first thread ever)
I have the "problem" that I feel extremely guilty when flying with planes because I contribute with that a lot to the pollution of the environment.

This feeling is that prominent that I most of the time refuse to fly somewhere or going on vacation even if I easily had the time and money or got invited. I flew probably around 5-6 times in my life.
I also have to admit that I'm bit scared of flying, and in combination with feeling guilty, it just doesn't make fun to travel long distances. I often use public transports like trains and busses to go away, but if I want to go in warm places during winter or visit exotic places, that's then hardly possible without taking a sabbatical leave.

We've soon a longer weekend ahead of us and I haven't planned anything. A coworker of mine recommended me to use the service of an agency that plans for you a surprise vacation of 3-4 days. First I was very excited of that idea. But then I thought: "Do I have the right to harm the environment that much only so I can have some extra fun for few days?"

I have the feeling that flying shouldn't be used for very casual trips, but only for very special and important occasions. The huge majority of humanity already doesn't fly, so flying for pleasure reasons or to broaden your own horizon is not really a "necessity".

Recently I discovered that there even exists a Swedish term for that, "Flygskam", which basically translates to "shaming for flying". This at least confirmed to me that I'm by far not the only one with these thoughts.
Sure, I do many other stuff that damages the environment and I have no counter-arguments for that.

Honestly I don't know what I want to achieve with this thread. I would like to hear what your thoughts about that topic are. Is it just pure overreaction for my part? Are there other ways and solutions to reduce the damage of travelling?

Click to shrink...

There are services that allow you to pay up your c02 footprint, maybe you should looking into this

 

[Relix]

The plane is taking off with or without you. If more people fill it the more efficient things will be in the long run.

 

[MarsipanRumpan]

Funny seeing a swedish word in the title! My name on this forum translates to MarzipanAss lol.

Anyways back to the topic, I had Flygskam for a long time growing up, 2017 I flew for the first time in like 13 years and... It wasn't anything I made it out to be what so ever. I don't know why I was so afraid of it previously, because I've done it once more afterwards and it just isn't as bad.

Might be because I just don't give a shit about stuff the same way I did before

 

[Sasliquid]

I try to only fly once a year (return) and attempt to offset some of the emissions financially.

I hate the argument that the plane will leave anyway so it doesn't matter. Same could be said of not eating meat. It's about contributing to a culture where less planes are necessary.

 

[Carn]

The plane will fly and pollute whether you're on it or not.

Click to shrink...

Source? If there are viable alternatives (like better/faster rail connections); short-distance flights will most likely decline.

 

[RadzPrower]

Source? If there are viable alternatives (like better/faster rail connections); short-distance flights will most likely decline.

Click to shrink...

I've seen near empty flights that still go. What you don't necessarily realize is that those "short-distance" flights are often the first or last legs on a multi-stop flight. Those flights have to go regardless of their capacity because they have to make connections.

 

[plié]

I refuse to fly anywhere unless it is literally the only option.

Avoiding flying is a good thing for the environment, and flying should be taxed waaaaay more heavily.

There are also services where you can donate you carbon footprints worth, if you have to fly.

The plane will fly and pollute whether you're on it or not.

Click to shrink...

The plane is taking off with or without you. If more people fill it the more efficient things will be in the long run.

Click to shrink...

You can always use a more environment friendly option, to show your support.

 

[Haselbacher]

Unless you're hiring a private jet, the plane you'd be riding in would probably be taking off regardless of if you got yourself a ticket or not.

Click to shrink...

I would disagree here.
If enough people stop flying, it might not be profitable for airlines.

You alone might not change anything. You, your family and all your friends make a change for sure.

I am on a no-fly 2019. If I don't have to for work, I don't plan on flying the next years...

 

[plié]

I would disagree here.
If enough people stop flying, it might not be profitable for airlines.

You alone might not change anything. You, your family and all your friends make a change for sure.

I am on a no-fly 2019. If I don't have to for work, I don't plan on flying the next years...

Click to shrink...

This guy gets it, bravo!

 

[Carn]

What you don't necessarily realize is that those "short-distance" flights are often the first or last legs on a multi-stop flight.

Click to shrink...

Not in Europe, they usually just hop between 2 airports. If continued attendence is (too) low, they cancel the connection. Happens all the time.

 

[Necromanti]

I would disagree here.
If enough people stop flying, it might not be profitable for airlines.

Click to shrink...

It would probably be more effective to try to get other people to stop flying through activism.

 

[Kito]

Are you vegetarian or vegan, OP? Because fuel emissions are trivial compared to methane emissions from livestock. If you're vegan or vegetarian, you're doing your part tenfold for the planet, and you should fly guilt free all you want.

 

[Carn]

Are you vegetarian or vegan, OP? Because fuel emissions are trivial compared to methane emissions from livestock. If you're vegan or vegetarian, you're doing your part tenfold for the planet, and you should fly guilt free all you want.

Click to shrink...

Don't forget not having children! Abortion is green, try sodomy*.

/s
* paraphrased from Doug Stanhope.

 

[Stouffers]

But if enough people said "no, no more flying," it would no longer be an issue. If you feel that guilty, you should conscienciously object to the whole practice.

 

[gozu]

Laws and policies enacted by political parties in power can do infinitely more than regular people buying an economy seat or a 30 mpg car instead of an electric.

I feel that making people think they have to make painful sacrifices (instead of replacing carbon burning with green energy) just makes them less likely to vote for the correct people.

You should feel bad if you fly in a private jet. Now THAT is incredibly wasteful.

 

[Haselbacher]

Are you vegetarian or vegan, OP? Because fuel emissions are trivial compared to methane emissions from livestock. If you're vegan or vegetarian, you're doing your part tenfold for the planet, and you should fly guilt free all you want.

Click to shrink...

You are right. And I am guilty of not been vegan and having kids.
But that does not mean I should not care about anything else.
Especially with kids I have to start with something.

 

[Osahi]

I have it too, to some extent. I fly multiple times a year, mostly within Europe. Sometimes it's for work, but at least four times a year it's for holidays in Portugal. The biggest problem is that flying is often cheaper than taking a train. I've been looking at the night train to lisbon, and apart from the fact the voyage would take almost a day from Belgium, for the price of a return ticket I can fly 3 times there and back again. If it was cheaper I wouldn't do it every time due to time concerns, but I would do it at least once or twice a year in stead of flying.

It would help if train rides were cheaper (especially those on shorter distances). A compensation tax, where travelers compensate their CO2 in the plantation of trees, would be able to offset the low ticket prices for airplanes too.

For longer travels not related to work, I tend to travel with a company that has such a CO2 compansation as a policy. I'm going to Peru this summer, and every gram of CO2, even those from bus- and trainrides is covered. It's not ideal ofcourse, but it's something. (I also try to save CO2 elsewhere. I eat less meat than I used too, and most of my local travel is by bike or train.)

 

[Wackamole]

I very rarely fly but i do like it. My shame is mostly with my Diesel car..... these fucking things are disgusting. I want all vehicles to be clean as soon as possible.
And as quiet as possible. Because fuck noise.
I mostly use the bicycle and my feet but i do have to use the car sometimes.

 

[Kito]

You are right. And I am guilty of not been vegan and having kids.
But that does not mean I should not care about anything else.
Especially with kids I have to start with something.

Click to shrink...

If one is so concerned with their carbon footprint, but can't be bothered to change what they eat to make the biggest difference possible, then they also shouldn't restrict their traveling out of guilt.

Eat what you want and fly freely anywhere you please. Feeling guilty about the latter and not the former is putting the cart way ahead of the horse. It's like someone reading the thread posted today about insects going extinct in 100 years and feeling guilty about contributing to that statistic by wearing shoes outside the house in fear of killing more ants than if walking barefoot.

 

[RadzPrower]

Not in Europe, they usually just hop between 2 airports. If continued attendence is (too) low, they cancel the connection. Happens all the time.

Click to shrink...

That's one, generally more condense, area of the world though.

For instance, my state (size of 59,425 square miles or 153.909 square km...think I used the period correctly for European usage...sorry if not) has a large hub, but none of the other airports are even designed as medium. Two of my neighboring states don't have any airports classified as large...possibly not even a medium class airport. One of them also have a single large hub. Then of course there's the exception state that has four large and three medium airports.

 

[Munti]

Thanks for the all the replies

There are services that allow you to pay up your c02 footprint, maybe you should looking into this

Click to shrink...

You can always use a more environment friendly option, to show your support.

Click to shrink...

Ah that's cool! Didn't know about that. Will look into that. Thanks.

Are you vegetarian or vegan, OP? Because fuel emissions are trivial compared to methane emissions from livestock. If you're vegan or vegetarian, you're doing your part tenfold for the planet, and you should fly guilt free all you want.

Click to shrink...

I'm not, and that's the most perplexing part. I'm not here to advocate people to live greener. I'm myself not a role model in that regards.
But for some reasons if it's about flying, my head tells me loudly "you should definitely not do that and feel ashamed" and takes me away all the joy of flying away. And this guiltyness stays during and after my vacations/trips.
It's very hypocritical for my part

 

[Biggersmaller]

Both the "aircraft are green" and "flying is shit compared to cars" narratives are completely wrong. It really depends greatly on the aircraft and how full the aircraft is. The Airbus A320 and Boeing 737 MAX-7 for instance get the equivalent of well over 100 mpg per seat when full.

Although they could give a shit about the Earth, airlines want maximized fuel efficiency more than 99% of travelers.

 

[Carn]

That's one, generally more condense, area of the world though.

Click to shrink...

Yes, and it being pretty condensed, there should be more high speed rail options. I can fly from Amsterdam to Berlin or Paris or London for 30 to 50 euros (probably at a shitty time, but hey) and that would take me give or take 3 to 4 hours (waiting time and extra transfers included), train would take me around 6 to to 8 hours and probably (at least) twice as expensive. I do have to say that most price-fighters use secondary airports as their base, so you often still have to get into a bus or train to your main destination; but still, flying often is the quickest and cheapest option in many of those city-to-city situations.

But still, number of flights almost doubled (worldwide) in 15 years time, I think it's fair to question the race-to-the-bottom pricing if you relate it to the enviroment.

 

[Glasgow Mega-Snake]

This is something I think about a lot. I'd love to travel more, there's a ton of places I'd like to see. And I have relatives in other European countries that are really difficult to reach without flying, I would have to combine at least a day-long train ride with a ferry trip.

But if you look into the topic, aside from going vegan and using only public transport instead of a car, not flying is the most impactful decision you can make as an individual regarding the climate.

It's by far the most harmful way of transport to the climate when you look at the CO2 emissions

To those saying the plane will fly without you anyway... that's just stupid. If enough people would fly less or change to other forms of transport, airlines would absolutely need to reduce their number of flights.

 

[RadzPrower]

I do have to say that most price-fighters use secondary airports as their base

Click to shrink...

This is highly situational as well. I am having to fly for work soon, so I checked into a small airport in the next state over (ironically a faster/shorter drive and definitely easier than the hub in my state), but it's almost $100 more than the hub and the overall flight time is more than doubled due to layovers. Extreme locals and business flyers have to be the only people using that airport.

 

[Kito]

I'm not, and that's the most perplexing part. I'm not here to advocate people to live greener. I'm myself not a role model in that regards.
But for some reasons if it's about flying, my head tells me loudly "you should definitely not do that and feel ashamed" and takes me away all the joy of flying away. And this guiltyness stays during and after my vacations/trips.
It's very hypocritical for my part

Click to shrink...

I'm wondering if you might be converting the fear of flying into guilt for some reason that your mind feels is justified. I'd say your focus should be trying to expel the fear as much as possible, and then it could be easier to also get rid of the unfounded guilt. At least that's how it seems to me.

 

[Magni]

I feel a bit guilty, but I love flying. And I live in Japan, so there's no other reasonable options for work trips to the US or family trips to Europe.

I try to make up for it in the rest of my life.

 

[h1nch]

If I had a feasible alternative (like high speed rail) I would opt for that almost every time. In fact when I travel Europe I usually insist on using trains to bounce between countries. On top of being more environmentally friendly the user experience is also far superior. And while train prices can be expensive, I like that I can actually afford a first class ticket on a train, unlike a typical plane trip.

Unfortunately the US does not have a high speed rail network of any kind, and I don't feel guilty about using air travel when I need to. I wish we could build out an extensive high speed rail network, but that will likely never happen.

 

[Midramble]

To be fair, even if you grounded all flights forever it would only reduce global emissions by 5%. That and airports dont really have capacity for upping traffic while airlines constantly work to improve efficiency.

For those reasons, the necessity outranks the urgency for me.

That being said, Japan leads the way with their shinkansen. Same price as a flight, but more legroom, better view, no security line, basically as fast, and significantly reduced emmisions. If you can, take a train.

 

[Arjen]

I get where you're coming from, but travel is one of the biggest joys in my life.
I have to admit that i'm that selfish that I don't want to give that up.

 

[OrdinaryPrime]

This is something I think about a lot. I'd love to travel more, there's a ton of places I'd like to see. And I have relatives in other European countries that are really difficult to reach without flying, I would have to combine at least a day-long train ride with a ferry trip.

But if you look into the topic, aside from going vegan and using only public transport instead of a car, not flying is the most impactful decision you can make as an individual regarding the climate.

It's by far the most harmful way of transport to the climate when you look at the CO2 emissions

To those saying the plane will fly without you anyway... that's just stupid. If enough people would fly less or change to other forms of transport, airlines would absolutely need to reduce their number of flights.

Click to shrink...

Looks like being a bachelor helps the environment!

Also I had never heard of this "shaming for flying" thing. Do a lot of Swedes feel this way?

 

[Sai]

I would disagree here.
If enough people stop flying, it might not be profitable for airlines.

You alone might not change anything. You, your family and all your friends make a change for sure.

I am on a no-fly 2019. If I don't have to for work, I don't plan on flying the next years...

Click to shrink...

alright, you do you, but at least in the city where I live, the odds of getting everyone who isn't traveling for work or family to just not fly are basically impossible.

 

[travisbickle]

The internet (or yearly maintenance of data) is similar to the level of pollution as yearly air travel, but it's also increasing at a higher rate whereas air travel pollution is reducing because of people's concerns. Maybe quit the internet for a while.

 

[Munti]

The internet (or yearly maintenance of data) is similar to the level of pollution as yearly air travel, but it's also increasing at a higher rate whereas air travel pollution is reducing because of people's concerns. Maybe quit the internet for a while.

Click to shrink...

You're right. But what I try to say is that there is an inner voice that effectively prevents me to enjoy my vacations/trips fully and prevents me to plan my vacations to distant places, even if I really would love to. When I will fly the next time, my mind will probably say something like "you're already polluting enough by using the internet. And now you double down by flying for a 3-day trip for selfish fun. Shame on you".

Also I had never heard of this "shaming for flying" thing. Do a lot of Swedes feel this way?

Click to shrink...

I don't really know if it's a thing. I actually learned this term from a reportage that implied that many Swedes feel ashamed for flying. Also the first poster implied it's a thing in the Netherlands. But I don't know if it's an increasing "trend" or not.

I'm wondering if you might be converting the fear of flying into guilt for some reason that your mind feels is justified. I'd say your focus should be trying to expel the fear as much as possible, and then it could be easier to also get rid of the unfounded guilt. At least that's how it seems to me.

Click to shrink...

You know what, I actually think that you're right! I might trying to rationalise my fear of flying into that as this will give me an "acceptable" reason to myself not to take flights

 

[apocat]

I would disagree here.
If enough people stop flying, it might not be profitable for airlines.

You alone might not change anything. You, your family and all your friends make a change for sure.

I am on a no-fly 2019. If I don't have to for work, I don't plan on flying the next years...

Click to shrink...

Pretty much this. I'm saddened to see so many people who have no issues with flying. I don't have a zero tolerance for flying myself, but you won't catch me on a plane if there is a more enviromentally sound option available. And if more people seek other options, a reasonable outcome would be that less flights will leave the ground every day.

 

[Deleted member 17092]

Buy some carbon offsets?

 

[Hasseigaku]

I feel this, but I'm not ever going to convince my wife to take a train cross country.

 

[Grahf]

"I know it's terrible but I just can't help it"
Feels like a vegetarian thread : /

I can't speak for the future but so far I always managed to avoid planes (except for work once). When I compare with some colleagues who fly multiples times a year for vacations... Yikes.

 

[BlackGoku03]

People saying convince your friends not to fly aren't living in the real world. We all travel for work. Even my parents still do business trips. I go on 3-4 a year.

I guess I should walk? Take a train from SC to Chicago?

Lets be real, the only way to change anything is by having better government leaders because nobody is convincing enough people to make a huge dent.

 

[Denamitea]

Yep, flying is bad for the environment. Don't do it if you don't have to. Obviously that's easier said than done and of course many people don't have the option not to fly.

That being said it's natural to feel guilty about it and in fact I think more people should feel that way.

 

[plié]

I get where you're coming from, but travel is one of the biggest joys in my life.
I have to admit that i'm that selfish that I don't want to give that up.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, fuck the planet am i right

 

[Deleted member 8752]

"I know it's terrible but I just can't help it"
Feels like a vegetarian thread : /

I can't speak for the future but so far I always managed to avoid planes (except for work once). When I compare with some colleagues who fly multiples times a year for vacations... Yikes.

Click to shrink...

You're not a better person because you refuse to fly. Flying is one of mankind's finest achievements.

Some of you act like if you don't organically grow your own produce and don't walk everywhere and if you flush when doing number one in the bathroom that your some sort of monster.

 

[Arjen]

Yeah, fuck the planet am i right

Click to shrink...

Yep, exactly what I said. Fuck off