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excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,316
This article is a bit confusing. It's reading to me that he started Feminist Apparel because he was once that person, and regrets the person he once was, and wants to help fix it.

Or am I reading that incorrectly?

His actions in this case are ridiculous, clearly. Lying about stepping down and then firing his staff shows he hasn't really changed.

But, should he have stepped down if he was once that terrible person, and his company was an initiative to become part of the solution? (before he glassed the entire office, they didn't know he was still that person, presumably)

It is when you lied about it.

You don't "atone" by lying about and literally hiding what you have to atone for. Arguably you don't atone by turning your atonement for a history of abuse into something you can make money and profit of either but that's a different argument.
 

thetrin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,620
Atlanta, GA
It is when you lied about it.

You don't "atone" by lying about and literally hiding what you have to atone for. Arguably you don't atone by turning your atonement for a history of abuse into something you can make money and profit of either but that's a different argument.
Yeah another poster cleared it up.

On the money point, people can still change and become better. We shouldn't all be condemned for life for being shitty people in the past.

That said, there's a rape charge on the table, which changes everything.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,316
It was reasonable for the employees to ask that he step down. It wasn't really reasonable to demand that he release a public statement and essentially end his life. Though his life is over now anyway. Maybe the former employees can start their own company.


That you think it's not reasonable to expect that he, the CEO of a company who made up an entire much more positive and flattering origin story to hock his company and exploit women's rights, make a public statement owning up to his bullshit when caught is impressive. That you then define this as ending his life, which is the usual go to to defend men like this, is sad. It's always the same song and dance that tries to paint the man as the victim in these kind of stories
 
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SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,458
That you think it's not reasonable to expect that he, the CEO of a company who made up an entire much more positive and flattering origin story to hock his company and exploit women's rights, make a public statement owning up to his bullshit when caught is impressive. That you then define this as ending his life, which is the usual go to to defend men like this, is sad. It's always the same song and dance that tries to paint the man as the victim in these kind of stories

I'm guessing he means ended professionally? Like, the publicity from this makes this guy nuclear and not really worth going near if you're an employer. And lol, nobody's going to work for him or buy his shit, I'd hope.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,316
I'm guessing he means ended professionally? Like, the publicity from this makes this guy nuclear and not really worth going near if you're an employer. And lol, nobody's going to work for him or buy his shit, I'd hope.

He did it to himself.

He did in fact need to make a public statement because he's the one who when he launched the company sold the public a BS story.
 

Jessie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,921
Why would you post about committing sexual harassment on Facebook? No wonder he had to found his own company. No one else would've hired him.
 

Deleted member 3058

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,728
I know people are saying it seems familiar but only in the initial action. It's the follow up that I'm curious about.

When is he going to start shitting out 17 paragraph meltdowns detailing how identity politics dragged his company down and how he secretly pined to fire every black person because he blamed them for the downfall of his company but held back because it would have looked bad in the midst of BlackLivesMatter?
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,458
He did it to himself.

He did in fact need to make a public statement because he's the one who when he launched the company sold the public a BS story.

I don't disagree. To be clear, I don't think he's a victim in this. It would have been easier for him to just say nothing instead of making up something to garner sympathy, but he wanted to make it easier to sell clothes and hire people.
 

Sowrong

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,442
Unless the employees wanted to buy the business from him. When it's such a small group, I'd probably fire everyone too. Brand is tarnished now, though.
 

ShyMel

Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
3,483
I'd say the company was suspect to begin with.

That's not to blame the employees; he lied, they didn't know. Nor is this to say "obviously, someone running a company like that is bad in this way with something to hide". But I do think that anyone - particularly a man - running a company for profit with "feminist" in the name like that... it rubs me the wrong way; it's turning feminism into your brand.
Agreed, especially considering that several brands (not sure about this one in particular) that plaster feminism and related phrases on their apparel have been found to use sweatshops and steal designs from lesser known female artists.
 

Char

Member
Dec 9, 2017
193
Oh gee, I thought at first this was going to be about some new Dov Charney joint after all his misdeeds at American Apparel. >.<
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,709
If your top employees want you out you really only have two choices. Unless they were willing to buy him out at market price, he probably made the only choice financially he could under the circumstances (of his own Making, don't get me wrong)
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,508
Cape Cod, MA
My instincts never to trust any guy who calls himself a feminist (and to never call myself one) continue to seem like a really smart idea. Guys who try and associate that label with themselves are seemingly almost always up to no good. Don't be shitty to women and you won't feel the need to broadcast that you're feminist. Just an idea anyway.
 

Air

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,262
This really why whenever I hear dudes talk openly about how much of a feminist they are, I have a hard time believing them

My instincts never to trust any guy who calls himself a feminist (and to never call myself one) continue to seem like a really smart idea. Guys who try and associate that label with themselves are seemingly almost always up to no good. Don't be shitty to women and you won't feel the need to broadcast that you're feminist. Just an idea anyway.

Bingo
 

Powdered Egg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,070
My instincts never to trust any guy who calls himself a feminist (and to never call myself one) continue to seem like a really smart idea. Guys who try and associate that label with themselves are seemingly almost always up to no good. Don't be shitty to women and you won't feel the need to broadcast that you're feminist. Just an idea anyway.
yup, it's so corny and suspect.
 

DevilMayGuy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,574
Texas
Sounds shitty, but if I started a company and my employees pressured me to step down I'd probably fire all their asses as well.
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,458
My instincts never to trust any guy who calls himself a feminist (and to never call myself one) continue to seem like a really smart idea. Guys who try and associate that label with themselves are seemingly almost always up to no good. Don't be shitty to women and you won't feel the need to broadcast that you're feminist. Just an idea anyway.

+1. Sets off my senses when I hear it.
 

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,199
My instincts never to trust any guy who calls himself a feminist (and to never call myself one) continue to seem like a really smart idea. Guys who try and associate that label with themselves are seemingly almost always up to no good. Don't be shitty to women and you won't feel the need to broadcast that you're feminist. Just an idea anyway.
Definitely. That's kind of a red flag or narcissism here. It's not a medal to wear and you're not the judge of that anyway.
It's generally a good sign that guys are doing it for themselves, to feel good about themselves.

As always, acts speak louder, and I feel that even not being in the way, knowing to shut up and listen, would already go a long way.
 

DevilMayGuy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,574
Texas
My instincts never to trust any guy who calls himself a feminist (and to never call myself one) continue to seem like a really smart idea. Guys who try and associate that label with themselves are seemingly almost always up to no good. Don't be shitty to women and you won't feel the need to broadcast that you're feminist. Just an idea anyway.
This too
 

Buzzman

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,549
My instincts never to trust any guy who calls himself a feminist (and to never call myself one) continue to seem like a really smart idea. Guys who try and associate that label with themselves are seemingly almost always up to no good. Don't be shitty to women and you won't feel the need to broadcast that you're feminist. Just an idea anyway.
This really why whenever I hear dudes talk openly about how much of a feminist they are, I have a hard time believing them

Bingo

yup, it's so corny and suspect.
With all due respect, fuck this opinion. I've had to suffer from violent toxic masculinity as a child, together with my mom, and now you're calling me suspect because I chose to take an open stand against abuse?
Thanks guys, appreciated.
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,508
Cape Cod, MA
With all due respect, fuck this opinion. I've had to suffer from violent toxic masculinity as a child, together with my mom, and now you're calling me suspect because I chose to take an open stand against abuse?
Thanks guys, appreciated.
Probably for the best you know what calling yourself a feminist makes people think. Do. Let that label be for the women who have to live with sexism every day.
 

Air

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,262
With all due respect, fuck this opinion. I've had to suffer from violent toxic masculinity as a child, together with my mom, and now you're calling me suspect because I chose to take an open stand against abuse?
Thanks guys, appreciated.

No one is saying you can't challenge toxic masculinity, but people who advertise their loyalties tend to do so for brownie points. It's good practice anyway to be skeptical of peoples words (and pay attention to their actions) because of people like the dude written in an article.

In short words you challenging toxic masculinity is not the same as openly boasting about how much of a feminist you are
 

NoName999

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,906
With all due respect, fuck this opinion. I've had to suffer from violent toxic masculinity as a child, together with my mom, and now you're calling me suspect because I chose to take an open stand against abuse?
Thanks guys, appreciated.

You're confusing "calling yourself a feminist" with "actually being one"
 

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,494
With all due respect, fuck this opinion. I've had to suffer from violent toxic masculinity as a child, together with my mom, and now you're calling me suspect because I chose to take an open stand against abuse?
Thanks guys, appreciated.

I get your feelings, especially given plagiarize's first line, but in general you're jumping at these posters' words without reading what they're actually saying.

Please reread, in particular, the part you (coincidentally?) bolded again. It's not about saying you're a feminist or caring about feminism. It's about making a big deal about it - trying to "associate that label" with yourself, trying to "broadcast it". Talking about it as a topic isn't the problem; it's talking "openly about how much of a feminist [you] are".

Are you just saying you're a feminist when it'd make sense for you to say it, and naturally engaging in discussions about related topics? Or are you just trying to build up your image as being a feminist at every possible opportunity, being self-congratulating about it, trying to make that your entire personal brand? That second case is obviously very suspect. And so even if there's sometimes false positives of people who meant well, genuinely trying to be the first case but ending up seen as the second case... can you fault women for being cautious?

Do remember we're talking about someone who literally made it his clothing brand in an attempt to cover up his actions and reshape his image.
 

Moogle

Top Mog
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,765
Sounds shitty, but if I started a company and my employees pressured me to step down I'd probably fire all their asses as well.

tumblr_pbckegrOgS1xykt87o1_540.png


still feel he was reasonable?
 

Obvious

Banned
Apr 21, 2018
84
With all due respect, fuck this opinion. I've had to suffer from violent toxic masculinity as a child, together with my mom, and now you're calling me suspect because I chose to take an open stand against abuse?
Thanks guys, appreciated.

Probably for the best you know what calling yourself a feminist makes people think. Do. Let that label be for the women who have to live with sexism every day.

Terry Crews must make you sick huh
 

CelestialAtom

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,037
I mean if he's trying to attone for what he did then that's a good thing, but I don't think of any of what led up to this shouldve happened in the way it did.

The fact he fired all his staff is ridiculous as well. He should've been up front about why he was doing this in the first place to give them the option of never joining to begin with.

Exactly. The fact that he never told them the whole origin of why the company exists and decided to fire them once they found out is insane.
 

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,494
I read the whole Tumblr page now and that original post he made in 2013 is making my blood boil.

He nonchalantly talks about the gross shit he did, invokes some notable related events, and then announces his "humble attempt" to solve it. Which is... his for-profit shirt company that sells shirts that "show and establish [purchasers'] solidarity", that "spark conversations". Which solves this how, exactly? Not even considering donating the profits to some organizations that could do anything to actually help women; you're just starting some conversations while lining your own pockets and that's a solution to you?

Then he has the gall to ask for volunteer work or donations to help. Seriously. Fuck off.
 

Buzzman

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,549
No one is saying you can't challenge toxic masculinity, but people who advertise their loyalties tend to do so for brownie points. It's good practice anyway to be skeptical of peoples words (and pay attention to their actions) because of people like the dude written in an article.

In short words you challenging toxic masculinity is not the same as openly boasting about how much of a feminist you are

You're confusing "calling yourself a feminist" with "actually being one"

I get your feelings, especially given plagiarize's first line, but in general you're jumping at these posters' words without reading what they're actually saying.
Yeah, ugh, you're right, I'm sorry. I flew off the handle there. Of course I'm not looking for brownie points, It's just so fucking disheartening to have people doubting your intentions if you say anything.

Probably for the best you know what calling yourself a feminist makes people think. Do. Let that label be for the women who have to live with sexism every day.
This is a really weird argument on the other hand. Guys shouldn't call themselves feminists?
I'm absolutely not going to stop calling/identifying myself as that because some people say bad words to me. This is a lot more fucking important than that.
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,072
I mean if he's trying to attone for what he did then that's a good thing, but I don't think of any of what led up to this shouldve happened in the way it did.

The fact he fired all his staff is ridiculous as well. He should've been up front about why he was doing this in the first place to give them the option of never joining to begin with.

This is the best assessment here. Especially when you are looking to be a reformed perpetrator of rape culture. It kinda shows this person shouldn't be running this kind of operation. The #1 item that he still does not understand to be totally aware an be better as a man is always being clear, honest and giving women a choice with full disclosure of your intentions etc.

I do think men should be allowed to be reformed etc but doing stuff like what this guy is doing is the probally the worst thing they could do.

This is a really weird argument on the other hand. Guys shouldn't call themselves feminists?
I'm absolutely not going to stop calling/identifying myself as that because some people say bad words to me. This is a lot more fucking important than that.

a lot of predatory men hide behind the label. Its not saying you shouldnt be one, but when you are always leading with that title on your own, it gives people pause. its like giving yourself a nickname people want to see your actions and give you the title based off of that, not just saying well im a feminist now.
 

Hollywood Duo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,781
This is a really weird argument on the other hand. Guys shouldn't call themselves feminists?
I'm absolutely not going to stop calling/identifying myself as that because some people say bad words to me. This is a lot more fucking important than that.
You can do whatever you want but be aware of the stigma. It's like calling yourself a Republican these days. There may be some people out there who are decent people but you are going to get the side eye from a shit ton of people if you proclaim it outwardly.