Feminist Apparel CEO Fires Entire Staff After They Learn He's An Admitted Sexual Abuser (Read OP)

[Powdered Egg]

With all due respect, fuck this opinion. I've had to suffer from violent toxic masculinity as a child, together with my mom, and now you're calling me suspect because I chose to take an open stand against abuse?
Thanks guys, appreciated.

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B EZ dude. To quote Queensbridge's 2nd best poet Cory McKay "I don't talk about it I be about it".

I don't think women care for labels, I'm assuming they just want to genuinely see the work done. I will say 'im a feminist' if asked but I don't see the need to promote it and label myself ( i don't like the label for myself personally speaking). Anybody that knows me sees how I carry myself when it comes to women's rights.

 

[Sendero]

The actual page for it has more info: https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/

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Heh. That last entry of the Upstream site section ("which sites did people visit immediately before this site?").

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[Finale Fireworker]

Please move on from the off-site baggage and community comparisons. Focus on the story the thread is about and do not feed into inter-forum drama.

 

[deepFlaw]

It's not atonement if you were trying to keep it under the rug

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The weird thing is that he sorta wasn't hiding it? Like when he made that initial post he was incredibly open about it... which also reads as performative to me, in that it's so clearly "I fucked up this bad but hey LOOK AT ME, I'm better now, a shining example ready to lead the way!" with a transformation in a single instance, no actual work done. I assume at some point realized how obviously shady that was and began to hide it.

And then, beyond that, profiting off a movement isn't atonement to begin with. Even if he remained open about why he was doing it, selling T-shirts and keeping all the money isn't helping anyone but yourself, and doesn't say anything about you improving yourself. It just says you're able to make and ship shirts.

 

[Veggen]

Feminism is more than a label though? If you call yourself a feminist you're suggesting that you have a certain set of beliefs. If you don't have those beliefs your not a feminist.

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Feminism can mean different things to different people, and my point is that it's not inherently discernable upon introductions (like a bill of goods).

Assuming that the majority of people calling themselves feminists are their trying to strip men of their rights are are attempting to get into peoples pants based on anecdotal evidence doesn't seem rational to me?

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I never made that assumption. Even so, it doesn't have to be a majority of misuse for someone to be cautious of it.

How is it any different to anybody who's abused in any other way? I don't see this as a simple question that's specific to this topic.

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I wouldn't presume what reaction they're allowed to have though.

Very few labels can be, especially if they're associated with a political/philosophical movent? The issue is that at the same time if a movements inherently positive like feminism is and you're demonising it, you're literally harming a positive movement.

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The point that it's not enforced (unlike labels like doctor, scientists etc) is entirely why I'd advocate skepticism. Unconditional membership within ideology breeds no true Scotsman rejection that will ring hollow.

Would I have a problem that folks base their opinions of feminism off of that when there's a huge amount of writing on the subject out there? Probably, as in they're letting people abusing the belief inform it's meaning rather than those who believe in it.

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It's less that it inform one's opinion on feminism, anymore that anyone claiming to be "nice" informing me on what it means to be nice.

To be honest I think this topic relates to trusting corporations using social issues for profits more than it has to do with feminism.

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That's pretty much my position.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Feminism can mean different things to different people, and my point is that it's not inherently discernable upon introductions (like a bill of goods).

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I'm not denying that there are many schools of feminism. Just the context I was talking about is that men who are abusing women like Alan Martofel aren't feminists of any kind.

I never made that assumption. Even so, it doesn't have to be a majority of misuse for someone to be cautious of it.

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Further in my post I mention there's no harm in being cautious.

I wouldn't presume what reaction they're allowed to have though.

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Later in my post I say there's nothing wrong with people having a bad reaction to something and basing their views on that? The danger comes from applying those views to different contexts, especially if it's from second hand anecdotes.

The point that it's not enforced (unlike labels like doctor, scientists etc) is entirely why I'd advocate skepticism. Unconditional membership within ideology breeds no true Scotsman rejection that will ring hollow.

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I'd 100% agree that scepticism should be used in a scenario where you're in a place where you could be abused by the person or you're in the position where you could prevent potential abuse. Outside of that I think it's more important that the ideals of feminism are normalised and if you start being sceptical of every guy who claims to be feminist you're making a case for it being a bad thing and you can't be a male feminist without being a creep when all that it means is being for equality. You can't just say "We'll, I agree to equal rights but not feminism" because then you have to explain how you disagree with the core tenets of feminism and are painting them as an extreme view when that's exactly what the people who reject mainstream feminism want.

It's less that it inform one's opinion on feminism, anymore that anyone claiming to be "nice" informing me on what it means to be nice.

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I don't think that applies to people who've never read or been taught anything about feminism though.

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

Jesus at those quotes

 

[Jack Remington]

That you think it's not reasonable to expect that he, the CEO of a company who made up an entire much more positive and flattering origin story to hock his company and exploit women's rights, make a public statement owning up to his bullshit when caught is impressive. That you then define this as ending his life, which is the usual go to to defend men like this, is sad. It's always the same song and dance that tries to paint the man as the victim in these kind of stories

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This is an aggresssive and frankly inappropriate response.

The only person with the right to demand he come forward is the woman he assaulted.

 

[Air]

Lol. A good lesson on virtue signaling.

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I'm glad there's a good phrase for this behavior. Gonna remember it for the future

 

[excelsiorlef]

This is an aggresssive and frankly inappropriate response.

The only person with the right to demand he come forward is the woman he assaulted.

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No what is inappropriate is concern trolling about how now his life is ruined.

His employees who joined a company under false pretenses have every right to ask that the CEO make a public statement admitting those false pretenses... especially because those false pretenses are how he advertised his company to the public too.

 

[Neece]

Of course, I guess I have to clarify. I'm not trying to parade around the fact that I'm a feminist on any sites or telling random people. It's just that if asked I will respond with that.
I've certainly met a bunch of people who I've soured on purely because of their opposition to it.

ANYWAYS I'm going to shut the fuck up now, and the CEO can go fuck himself for real.

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This conversation with feminist writer Jessica Xiao helped convince me to stop calling myself a feminist. She talks about being immediately skeptical of men that wear the label and says its for women, and the podcast host (himself a male feminist) voices his disagreement as he feels the way you do. She suggests saying you support feminism or are an ally, and do the work of calling out toxic masculinity and amplifying women without actually calling yourself a feminist. It's a good conversation and offers a point to consider regarding calling yourself a feminist if you're male.

Today's episode is a bit of a double feature. First up is a conversation with feminist writer Jessica Xiao! Jessica had a post about male feminists that I found very interesting and I'm so glad she agreed to come on to talk about it. We also discuss her background and where she sees herself (if at all) within the atheist movement. Check out Jessica's website for more about her and her writing!

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https://seriouspod.com/sio84-interview-jessica-xiao-sargons-persecution-complex/

 

[Jack Remington]

No what is inappropriate is concern trolling about how now his life is ruined.

His employees who joined a company under false pretenses have every right to ask that the CEO make a public statement admitting those false pretenses... especially because those false pretenses are how he advertised his company to the public too.

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His employees have the right to demand that he step down while making a public statement ensuring his transition into any other job is difficult if not impossible, when the woman whose hand he put around his dick made no such demand.

I don't see it. Agree to disagree.

 

[excelsiorlef]

His employees have the right to demand that he step down while making a public statement ensuring his transition into any other job is difficult if not impossible, when the woman whose hand he put around his dick made no such demand.

I don't see it. Agree to disagree.

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He's not a victim.

He lied, publicly advertised his goods under false pretenses and was being asked to come clean.

He abused women, started a company to make money off of in supposedly to atone but then fabricated an entire false inspiration for the company that he sold to his employees and the public.

Yet all you seem concerned about is how it will hurt him.

He didn't have to lie. He didn't have to abuse women.

 

[Jack Remington]

The only ones "hurt" is/are his victim(s), none of whom have come forward.

According to the tumblr he made $60k a year from the company, hardly big bucks. Maybe if he'd become a multimillionaire that's another thing.

I don't get how a non-victim gets to demand that a person leave his company while simultaneously destroying his employment prospects elsewhere. It's not a reasonable request and not theirs to make.

I see no point in continuing this, so I won't be responding to future posts of yours on the subject.

 

[Puck Beaverton]

It's always the ones that loudly proclaim "look at how much of an ally I am!"

 

[mael]

Wouldn't the people whose life are ruined the fired employees anyway?
If the guy is a CEO he's already in a much better situation.
Heck he can rebrand and pander his shit to the altright now, if it's good enough for reddit, it's good enough for him.

 

[Aselith]

The only ones "hurt" is/are his victim(s), none of whom have come forward.

According to the tumblr he made $60k a year from the company, hardly big bucks. Maybe if he'd become a multimillionaire that's another thing.

I don't get how a non-victim gets to demand that a person leave his company while simultaneously destroying his employment prospects elsewhere. It's not a reasonable request and not theirs to make.

I see no point in continuing this, so I won't be responding to future posts of yours on the subject.

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His employees are victims of his deception of them regarding his past which is in direct opposition to the mission of the company. He made $60k a year claiming to be anti sexual assault while being a perpetrator. Seems like big bucks for using the trauma you caused other people. Put another way. He says he started the company to make amends. So, he is being paid a pretty decent salary to right his own wrongs. He deserves to have his employment prospects affected by all of this.

Fuck

Him

 

[Jack Remington]

His employees are victims of his deception of them regarding his past

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This is true, but it's not anywhere near the same as being a victim of his sexual abuse.

 

[Aselith]

This is true, but it's not anywhere near the same as being a victim of his sexual abuse.

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But it is enough to ask him to step down as CEO which is why they are asking him to step down instead of asking for him to be put under the jail.

 

[Jack Remington]

But it is enough to ask him to step down as CEO which is why they are asking him to step down instead of asking for him to be put under the jail.

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Asking him to step down was reasonable.

 

[Aselith]

Asking him to step down was reasonable.

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Also Me: "I don't get how a non-victim gets to demand that a person leave his company while simultaneously destroying his employment prospects elsewhere. It's not a reasonable request and not theirs to make."

 

[Jack Remington]

Also Me: "I don't get how a non-victim gets to demand that a person leave his company while simultaneously destroying his employment prospects elsewhere. It's not a reasonable request and not theirs to make."

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I was saying I didn't believe it was reasonable for them to demand he make a public statement outing himself. Not their call to make. If the victim(s) want to name him, that's their prerogative.

 

[Aselith]

I was saying I didn't believe it was reasonable for them to demand he make a public statement outing himself. Not their call to make. If the victim(s) want to name him, that's their prerogative.

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He already did and he's saying that he started the company to make amends. Part of making amends is to apologize so it's not unreasonable to ask him to apologize at all.

 

[Torpedo Vegas]

Nah, it makes perfect sense. "Let me masquerade as an ally and exploit that to make some money while using that status to avoid giving people a reason to check into my past"

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[Moogle]

And stepping away from a company he created does what exactly? How does that benefit himself in any way? How would he financially be in anyway better by simply leaving the company he created, especially when it's not publicly traded?

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Why is it 0-100, all or nothing? He didn't even attempt to communicate to his employees about the situation, leaving them in the dark for a week before sudden termination. I never once said he should've stepped down (though it's worth noting, he apparently initially said he would step down to his employees before he started avoiding them.) He is a shitty person and a shitty boss. Therefore, he is not a financially responsible person like you claim. Good business people don't treat their employees like dirt to begin with, that is fucking with their money down the line.

 

[SugarNoodles]

He wanted to help women but he still had to be the CEO. Clearly he doesn't get it.

 

[Khanimus]

Its a shame "Virtue Signalling" got coopted by rhe far right just like PC/SJW cause the original neutral conception of the term was legitimately useful.

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It's been so dragged through the dirt, the intent behind it has been destroyed.

 

[Viriditas]

He wanted to help women but he still had to be the CEO. Clearly he doesn't get it.

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Seriously. Couldn't he have just resigned from the CEO position, let the dust settle, and then inquire about whether they might be comfortable trying to work out a way for him to still contribute to the company in a corroborative manner, or come back in a position with less or no authority over the staff?

A great way to show atonement here, IMO, is by respecting the boundaries and consent of the actual women in his life who are explicitly telling him -- so, so explicitly -- what actions would be necessary to mitigate his mistakes. Another great way forward would be if he had put his energy into mediation and brainstorming sensible compromises, which would at least show a willingness to listen and work together for everyone's benefit.

But no, he just fires everybody. There are a lot of ways he could have responded, but I'm hard pressed to think of any response that would have reeked even MORE of privilege and entitlement than this one. When faced with an array of options, he deliberately made the shittiest choice.

 

[Deleted member 23158]

still feel he was reasonable?

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This is a good post. Makes it really clear why it's a shitty thing to do.

Was she abused at FA in 2016?

 

[TAJ]

Whenever I want to show my respect and support for a cause I always do it by exploiting that cause for profit. Checks out.

 

[Deleted member 4461]

My instincts never to trust any guy who calls himself a feminist (and to never call myself one) continue to seem like a really smart idea. Guys who try and associate that label with themselves are seemingly almost always up to no good. Don't be shitty to women and you won't feel the need to broadcast that you're feminist. Just an idea anyway.

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I am so confused.

If you call yourself a feminist you're sketchy

If you don't call yourself a feminist, you'll be berated "all feminism is is the belief that women should be equal to men, so how are you not a feminist?"

What do people want?

 

[Fulminator]

Maybe they could start their own company? I dunno if they have the funds but if the brand had a big enough following I imagine they could crowd fund or something.

This guy is an asshole

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

I read the whole Tumblr page now and that original post he made in 2013 is making my blood boil.

He nonchalantly talks about the gross shit he did, invokes some notable related events, and then announces his "humble attempt" to solve it. Which is... his for-profit shirt company that sells shirts that "show and establish [purchasers'] solidarity", that "spark conversations". Which solves this how, exactly? Not even considering donating the profits to some organizations that could do anything to actually help women; you're just starting some conversations while lining your own pockets and that's a solution to you?

Then he has the gall to ask for volunteer work or donations to help. Seriously. Fuck off.

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Sounds like the Feminist equivalent of Rainbow Capitalism.