FF14 as a Singleplayer entry should have been FF15

DiipuSurotu · May 30, 2018

PshycoNinja said:
I mean...Ivalice had two games that built up the lore and world before XII. Something other mainline games don't get.

If you took XII by itself, the lore and story aren't really all that deep. It is only once you play Vagrant Story and Tactics that you realize the lore is bigger than what XII shows.

This is factually incorrect. And Vagrant Story doesn't even have any bearing on Ivalice lore (from Matsuno's point of view VS isn't even part of Ivalice).

Besides, FFXV had a movie, an anime series and a few spinoffs to build up its lore and world before the main game's release and yet (no offense to FFXV fans but) I don't see many people clamoring for another FF game set in Eos.

Wilsongt · May 30, 2018

Mifec said:
Every single XIV player keeps telling me this game has an actual good story and chars unlike XV. Is this true?

Yes.

2.0 and 2.1 are a slog, but with 2.2 and the introduction to Doma, things pick up nicely.

PshycoNinja · May 30, 2018

Gorgosh said:
I also like them mixing it up, but FF15 just went too realistic for me. Aside from the gameplay and story issues of course.
I just think they perfectly encapsulated everything about FF in FF14. You even have your modern/sci-fi faction with the Empire.

That's a bit of a stretch... Nothing in XIV is as aesthetically pleasing to me as XV, and even with the empire, it hardly gives the feeling of sci-fi, let alone modern.

Stayfone · May 30, 2018

Agreed, lets put our hopes into FF16.

Dreamboum · May 30, 2018

PshycoNinja said:
If you took XII by itself, the lore and story aren't really all that deep. It is only once you play Vagrant Story and Tactics that you realize the lore is bigger than what XII shows.

man...what

are we taking away probably the only thing that most people can agree on for FF12 ?

Afrocious · May 30, 2018

Also 14 has way better music than 15.

Lady Lunalesca · May 30, 2018

I played since 1.0 until a few months ago. It's a "no" from me. If we are talking crafting system though that is unmatched.

Nesther · May 30, 2018

This thread makes me want to replay VIII. Why did they skip it on PS4?

Dreamboum · May 30, 2018

Afrocious said:
Also 14 has way better music than 15.

The music of the latest boss trial of FF14 is among the best thing I've heard in the series and I wish I was kidding. Soken is tremendously good when he makes his own music

Deleted member 5596 · May 30, 2018

Mifec said:
Every single XIV player keeps telling me this game has an actual good story and chars unlike XV. Is this true?

Yes, by quite a stretch.

Etrian Darkness · May 30, 2018

I kinda agree. 14 is a damn good FF game that's also an MMO.

It's a lot more traditional. ARR is a bit too traditional honestly. It's not bad, but it's not great either. It's mostly bloat. Like there is good stuff in there but then there's 50 odd fetch quests to fill the world up. The 2.x patches are were the ARR story get good and it starts getting to be its own game, moving away from 1.0's ties. 3.0 is where FF14 actually gets great and Heavensward is a highlight of its own. 3.x story is good too, in fact I love the 3.4 patch the most. It's not super relevant to Heavensward or Stormblood, but it is its own thing.

I mean 3.4 is probably important overall, it gave a lore dump I think about there being other worlds and such. But the concept alone of the Warriors of Darkness and how it was done is great.

Then SB while it has its issues I'd still say its a good FF story. But I wish the game would stop telling me why Lyse is important and I should care about her and instead show me why I should.
Job stories are good too. The most notable one that comes up a lot is Dark Knight's. The Dark Knight job story is probably one of my favourite questlines in FF14. It's nice to see my favourite job get a good storyline to go with it.

RIP Monk in the Monk expansion. Watching my job get snubbed hard hurts.

There's still a place for FF going more modern, but there's clearly a place for traditional style FF. 14 is good and will be going for quite some time still but it would be nice to see more classic.

Almaz_Hiro · May 30, 2018

I agree the story in FFXIV in the later stages of ARR is really good and it just keeps getting better from there. Cant comment on FFXV since never played it but although people joke about the whole road trip thing, the way the game was advertised/promoted as, that didn't sell itself to me so I don't really have any intention on playing it.

DiipuSurotu · May 30, 2018

Afrocious said:
Also 14 has way better music than 15.

Ehh, 15 has Mitsuda so it wins regardless of anything else

PshycoNinja · May 30, 2018

SunKing said:
Highly disagree. Heavensward and onward is what pushed the game (and its narrative) to top 5 FF entry for me.

If we are not accounting for ARR, sure. Taken on the whole, though?

DiipuSurotu said:
This is factually incorrect. And Vagrant Story doesn't even have any bearing on Ivalice lore (from Matsuno's point of view VS isn't even part of Ivalice).

Besides, FFXV had a movie, an anime series and a few spinoffs to build up its lore and world before the main game's release and yet (no offense to FFXV fans but) I don't see many people clamoring for another FF game set in Eos.

I actually see a lot of people clamoring for a Regis prequel. (which would be super dope)

I'd hardly call about four hours of side-story comparable to two 30 hour+ games to build lore. In my personal opinion, XII is great, but its lore is really not deeper than most other FF games unless you're accounting for Tactics expansion and base understanding of that world. What XII brings to lore is no more than what Vi, VII, VIII, X, and XV bring to their respective lores.

DiipuSurotu · May 30, 2018

Nesther said:
This thread makes me want to replay VIII. Why did they skip it on PS4?

Deleted member 5596 · May 30, 2018

PshycoNinja said:
If we are not accounting for ARR, sure. Taken on the whole, though?

Yes, with two expansions, several patches that introduced new plotlines, characters and nice side stories introduced since 2.0, ARR is just like 1/3 of the whole thing.

PshycoNinja · May 30, 2018

DiipuSurotu said:

Ow, my eyes! :P

Why no dark theme?

Ishiro · May 30, 2018

Gorgosh said:
And I have to eat it up and shut up, good idea. Maybe you should just not post in these topics or put people with different opinions on ignore?

No, thanks.

Gorgosh said:
One of the "biggest" Side Quest was this guy in FF15:

Yes, other Final Fantasys also had anime/fantasy stuff and "realistic" stuff mixed, but FF15 went all in on the realistic stuff that the fantasy stuff often seemed like an afterthought.
Here you travel with your car, but also here is a Chocobo, because otherwise you wouldn't even fucking know this is a FF game.
Of course it had Tonberry and other iconic monsters, but they did nothing for me because they didn't even really fit the setting. Behemoth was also wasted as a set piece.
I could go on and on what I (as in ME) didn't like. And I still wish FF15 went a different direction.

What's wrong with these side-quests? I would take them over XIV's shitty moogle side-quests any day of the week.

How did you use to travel in FFVII and FFVIII?

No, Behemoth was not just a set piece...

You wanted XV to take a different direction? That's completely fine, but that's not what your OP is saying. You implied that you wanted XIV to literally be XV.

Razgriz-Specter · May 30, 2018

Afrocious said:
Also 14 has way better music than 15.

14's is like right there with 8's as best in the series

SomethingWitty · May 30, 2018

the best part about the moogle beast tribe was slapping them

Dream Machine · May 30, 2018

DiipuSurotu said:

They still haven't fixed that purple, huh?

Weeniekuns · May 30, 2018

I hate MMOs and gave a FF14 a decent shot but it still felt like an MMO full of fetch quests and I gave up 15 hrs in.

PshycoNinja · May 30, 2018

Relaxed Muscle said:
Yes, with two expansions, several patches that introduced new plotlines, characters and nice side stories introduced since 2.0, ARR is just like 1/3 of the whole thing.

Hardly.

It takes at least 200 hours to get through ARR. Heavensward can be done in 80. Stormblood... *checks howlongtobeat* ...at least 50 hours. So ARR is much longer and has the biggest level climb. I'd say 2.0 - 2.3 (the slog) is easily 45% of the entire package.

PshycoNinja · May 30, 2018

Razgriz-Specter said:
14's is like right there with 8's as best in the series

Please don't kill me...I find it really middling. It doesn't help that there have been people (and bands) that accuse Soken of copying songs heavily.

Some songs are fantastic (and quite a few of those are actually done by Suzuki), but I find the lows pretty low. It balances out but nowhere near my favorites personally of IV, VI, VII, VIII, X, and XV.

piratepwnsninja · May 30, 2018

I actually though the story in 2.0 was fine. Better than a number of other mainline FF games at the very least. Where I will agree is that it takes awhile to both really get going and to get through due to needing to pad content. I loved Heavensward and Storm Blood.

pleaseinsertdisctwo · May 30, 2018

Dream Machine said:
Mainline Final Fantasy games have had so much baggage for more than 10 years. I'm interested to see what they make now that we are out of the Fabula Nova Crystallis/FFXIII expanded universe fart cloud.

Game engines have been built. Their teams are accustomed to creating games on modern hardware. They won't be repurposing half-made games into something shippable because they are overdue and over budget. I want to see what the designers and artists at SE actually want to make. It feels like they have been creatively stifled by outside circumstances for a long time.

I'm more nervous about XVI than excited tbh. Because I'm still shocked at how disastrously XV was handled. SE will find some way to completely screw up a game's potential

THAT SAID, as long as they don't make any more engines I think we'll be in the clear.

Deleted member 5596 · May 30, 2018

PshycoNinja said:
Hardly.

It takes at least 200 hours to get through ARR. Heavensward can be done in 80. Stormblood... *checks howlongtobeat* ...at least 50 hours. So ARR is much longer and has the biggest level climb. I'd say 2.0 - 2.3 (the slog) is easily 45% of the entire package.

200 to get through 2.0 (not 2.1 up to 3.0)? Nooooot really, more like 100-120 or so. Also take into account that 2.2 onwards the game really starts building something interesting. 2.0 content is really spaced out, but the rest of the patches leading up to 3.0 is quite cool.

Same with 3.1 up to 4.0. I guess when people say HS is 80 hours, they just count up to 3.1 instead of the whole array of content that leads to 4.0.

Basically the weakest part of the game (not really weak, but less polished) is basically 2.0 up to 2.2 or so. Then we have 2.2 - 3.0 which is really awesome, then we have 3.0 up to 4.0 which is great and then 4.0 itself which was quite awesome and now we reach 4.3

What I want to say, is that overall 2.0 is not really the 45% of the package, specially in terms of story and content. From 2.2 to 4.0 the game expands greatly all what was created in 2.0, in terms of lore, world building, characterization and plotlines to a point that 2.0 feels largely like a small part of the whole thing.

LowParry · May 30, 2018

theofficefan99 said:
I'm more nervous about XVI than excited tbh. Because I'm still shocked at how disastrously XV was handled. SE will find some way to completely screw up a game's potential

THAT SAID, as long as they don't make any more engines I think we'll be in the clear.

Well as long a we don't have another director hand over and redo's in the span of 10 years, I think we'll be okay. But in the mean time, we wait on FF7R.

Astral · May 30, 2018

I'm not trying to shit on XV, I like it, but I'm wondering if the people who love it have a problem with the game's combat. The combat is fun, but near the end of the game and during some of its optional content enemies would do so much damage that I would have to constantly pop potions after every little hit which severely slowed the combat down. It was annoying. Some enemies had so much health that the only way to do any real damage was to craft overpowered spells and spam them. I don't know if I was underleveled or something but it sucked. It made battles not fun.

Techno · May 30, 2018

Mifec said:
Every single XIV player keeps telling me this game has an actual good story and chars unlike XV. Is this true?

It's a MMO, but I think yes. Once the story gets going it's really good imo.

Just That Simple · May 30, 2018

Gorgosh said:
But hey, we got this, doesn't this just scream FINAL FANTASY to you?????

Considering we have these moments in earlier FF games I'd say yes.

StraySheep · May 30, 2018

lemonade said:
FFXV is a good game for many of us. Stop putting it down just because you like something else.

Dale Copper said:
I'm fucking sick of the debate of what we consider FF, on people complain about the new ones and the online ones, it doesn't fucking matter, shut the fuck up.

Real Renaissance Man said:
I prefer the current universe were we got both 14 and 15 as they currently are. Also, lets not forget 14 launched way worse then 15.

What these guys said. You don't need to shit on a game to say you like another one.

Ploid 6.0 · May 30, 2018

Get in line after FFXI solo remaster.

Count of Monte Sawed-Off · May 30, 2018

I love FF14, but a few moments aside, the story and characters aren't really that good.

Karasseram · May 30, 2018

As someone whose played FFXIV all the way through from 1.0 till current. The story is at best a mediocre shounen manga plot where they are too afraid to actually rock the boat. Almost all the characters in the storyline that die come back again and the story has no weight.

MetatronM · May 30, 2018

PshycoNinja said:
No. To my understanding that is incorrect.

If that is the case I will lose so much respect for XIV.

You are correct. The Ivalice in XIV is not the Ivalice in XII or Tactics.

FF XII takes place in the distant past relative to Tactics. The ancient civilization with airships and machines that is talked about in Tactics is the world that is seen in XII.

In XIV, the events of the Zodiac Brave Story (i.e. Tactics) took place in the distant past relative to modern day Dalmasca and Rabanastre (i.e. XII). So the timeline is backwards in XIV compared to what it canonically was in the earlier Ivalice games.

Tunichtgut · May 30, 2018

Maybe it get's better with Expansions, haven't played them, but the base FF14 was imho nothing special. and mostly even really boring, never understood why so many are praising it that high. Imho the strongest aspect of FF14 was for me the bosses and to learn everything about them, so you could survive and defeat them. I personally enjoyed the world from FFXI much more.

CaviarMeths · May 30, 2018

XIV is a top 5 Final Fantasy for me, but I really don't think this would be a good idea. XIV is great not only for its main scenario storyline, but also because of the stuff that makes an MMO what it is. You can't just remove the social and endgame aspect of the game and expect it to retain its soul and identity. It's a great game and you can go play it right now, no need for some huge overhaul to how the entire game looks and works.

Now, I wouldn't say no to an offline FF set in Eorzea, but it would need to be a new storyline and made from the ground up as a single-player game.

And no one except BD5 staff would be allowed anywhere near it.

XV may not be to your liking, but it's over and done with. You can move on.

PshycoNinja · May 30, 2018

Relaxed Muscle said:
200 to get through 2.0 (not 2.1 up to 3.0)? Nooooot really, more like 100-120 or so. Also take into account that 2.2 onwards the game really starts building something interesting. 2.0 content is really spaced out, but the rest of the patches leading up to 3.0 is quite cool.

Same with 3.1 up to 4.0. I guess when people say HS is 80 hours, they just count up to 3.1 instead of the whole array of content that leads to 4.0.

Basically the weakest part of the game (not really weak, but less polished) is basically 2.0 up to 2.2 or so. Then we have 2.2 - 3.0 which is really awesome, then we have 3.0 up to 4.0 which is great and then 4.0 itself which was quite awesome and now we reach 4.3

What I want to say, is that overall 2.0 is not really the 45% of the package, specially in terms of story and content. From 2.2 to 4.0 the game expands greatly all what was created in 2.0, in terms of lore, world building, characterization and plotlines to a point that 2.0 feels largely like a small part of the whole thing.

Yes. ARR is just that long. Leveling 1-50 is not some small task. It takes a long time. For me it didn't get interesting until Dreams of Ice (2.4) and diminished after 3.3.

ARR is a very large chuck of time in just main questing compared to the expansions. I think a lot of people forget because we are several years removed from the launch.

Astral said:
I'm not trying to shit on XV, I like it, but I'm wondering if the people who love it have a problem with the game's combat. The combat is fun, but near the end of the game and during some of its optional content enemies would do so much damage that I would have to constantly pop potions after every little hit which severely slowed the combat down. It was annoying. Some enemies had so much health that the only way to do any real damage was to craft overpowered spells and spam them. I don't know if I was underleveled or something but it sucked. It made battles not fun.

Later on the game when enemies land larger hits, it's more about being defensive than being offensive and knowing when to attack during open windows. Most people don't usually switch up their weapons often enough, which is a shame considering it changes your gameplay style and stats by a lot.

Plus, with Armiger Unleashed and Character Switching, the game is open to many more stratagems to fell larger enemies.

If you're using items too often you're doing something wrong. It's the games subtle way of informing you that what you have equipped or your strategy is not working out...unless your strategy is to just drink potions the whole time.

skeezx · May 30, 2018

FFXIV is by design supposed to be an FF fan's ultimate wet dream. and it can get away with that because successful sub based MMORPGs make enough bank to cover the overhead.

they just don't have that luxury with a $150+ million AAA single player Final Fantasy. not without it being a huge risk

CaviarMeths · May 30, 2018

PshycoNinja said:
Yes. ARR is just that long. Leveling 1-50 is not some small task. It takes a long time. For me it didn't get interesting until Dreams of Ice (2.4) and diminished after 3.3.

ARR is a very large chuck of time in just main questing compared to the expansions. I think a lot of people forget because we are several years removed from the launch.

Leveling 1-50, even 1-60, is insanely easy these days and takes very little time. With moderate playtime, you should have no problem hitting level cap in the 30 days you get for free when you buy the game.

Listai · May 30, 2018

I think XIV's setting has only just started to carve out its own identity.

It's easy to forget that in 1.0 Eorzea was essentially a less interesting version of Vana'diel. Only with Stormblood do I feel that the team has been able to really start creating something in their own right, rather than being shackled to story threads from launch.

I enjoy XIV, but Vana'diel and Ivalice are still far superior settings for a single player game.

Dream Machine · May 30, 2018

theofficefan99 said:
I'm more nervous about XVI than excited tbh. Because I'm still shocked at how disastrously XV was handled. SE will find some way to completely screw up a game's potential

THAT SAID, as long as they don't make any more engines I think we'll be in the clear.

I think (I hope) a lot of the ethos and design philosophy that caused a lot of the long delays and troubled development has been quarantined into the FFVII remake. Not just blaming Nomura, because games are made by big teams that a re subject to higher-ups in the company, but I think collectively the company learned a lot from how the past 10 years went. The way Tabata handled getting XV into shape and shipped has given me some optimism for what the company could do with a clean slate game.

It's also already been a year and a half since FFXV was released. I think the time has come for a new era in the series, and I hope they've learned enough to deliver on it before another console generation has come and gone.

ZangBa · May 30, 2018

FFXIV has one of the most boring and painfully uninteresting stories of any game I've ever played. If it was single player, I would definitely not make it far past the first dozen or so Waking Sands trips. How anyone can tolerate the disdain the game has for a player's time is beyond me. Everything feels like it was designed to waste as much of your time as possible boring you to death.

Listai · May 30, 2018

ZangBa said:
FFXIV has one of the most boring and painfully uninteresting stories of any game I've ever played. If it was single player, I would definitely not make it far past the first dozen or so Waking Sands trips. How anyone can tolerate the disdain the game has for a player's time is beyond me. Everything feels like it was designed to waste as much of your time as possible boring you to death.

Like every mediocre anime story you need to watch 100 episodes (or play for fifty hours) before it "gets good".

Wagram · May 30, 2018

Buddy Mcpuddy said:
Like every mediocre anime story you need to watch 100 episodes (or play for fifty hours) before it "gets good".

Better than watching 100 episodes and it never gets good (XV).

Gamer @ Heart · May 30, 2018

Tunichtgut said:
Maybe it get's better with Expansions, haven't played them, but the base FF14 was imho nothing special. and mostly even really boring, never understood why so many are praising it that high. Imho the strongest aspect of FF14 was for me the bosses and to learn everything about them, so you could survive and defeat them. I personally enjoyed the world from FFXI much more.

It's not a maybe. It 1000% gets better with the expacs. They are focused and offer some really nice character and world building.

But yeah, without a doubt the game shighlights have always been the encounter design. Each expansions ends with a fantastic boss fights, and primals encounters are top class.

ArkhamFantasy · May 30, 2018

I don't care about MMO's, so i don't have any emotion towards XIV either way, i'm happy its successful and people enjoy it. I wish more of the fanbase took this approach. XIV, XV, Brave Exvius, regardless of what you think of these games, they're popular and keep the lights on at Square Enix (and when i say keep the lights on, i mean make them rich).

Deleted member 35631 · May 30, 2018

I haven't played FF14, but I've heard very good things about it. I wish FF16 is epic, but they need to not announce it until they are very sure which direction they are going and it is almost done.

Xaero Gravity · May 30, 2018

Mifec said:
Every single XIV player keeps telling me this game has an actual good story and chars unlike XV. Is this true?

Compared the to MMOs sure, but that's not saying a lot. I still found the story to be pretty bleh.

FF14 as a Singleplayer entry should have been FF15

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