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FF7 remake has the best JRPG combat.

Tahnit

Tahnit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,965
Ill be honest. When I heard that ff7 remake was going to be using an action combat system I was pretty upset. I remember how good the combat in ff7 original was and wanted the remake to be similar. Except now I came to realize something.

The combat in ff7 original was not good. It was boring, tedious, and had a lot of waiting for shit to happen or waiting for animations to happen.

FF7 remake's combat is sublime. They took all of the dead time and let you actually fight. They moved everything to a real-time system but also a turn based system in such a brilliant way that I'm surprised other games haven't done it before. Being able to hit x and pause the game (or at least super super slowmo) and issue out commands is just so fucking good. Watching the action around you moving super slow while you decide what to do is so fucking cool.

What's amazing is that they kept the spirit of the ATB system but instead of just waiting you can attack with each character to build their ATB, once that is done you can start deciding how you want to issue commands.

I've been playing a shitton of ff7 remake lately (trying to get the plat) and playing on hard mode shows how damn good the combat system is. You really have to be smart in how you approach each encounter. Also MP is limited so you cant just blast endlessly with magic. Learning each foes counter is important in order to quickly pressure/stagger them to finish them off.

Oh and summons are also fucking cool. Having the summoned entity fighting with you with the ability to use their special abilities at the cost of some ATB is really smart. And then the final attack when they leave is basically the summon from the original game just flashier.

I will say though, air combat needs work and its very frustrating in the remake. Having to go up and down over and over just to land hits is annoying. There should be some way to stay airborne longer. Make our combos last longer in air or something.

I want to see other JRPG's start to use these combat ideas. I know FFXVI is going to use an enhanced version of it and I cant wait to see what they come up with.
 
Aurc

Aurc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,890
The bar is very low (JRPGs are not known for their combat anyway), so I believe it, but sad if true. The game just felt super easy and mindless, and the constant pausing of real-time to go into a menu and select commands just constantly broke the flow for me. It felt like two weak combat systems glued together, rather than a singular strong one. The Materia system was also very dated and tedious, with it reaching the peak of that during the game's final dungeon.
 
Viale

Viale

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,617
Funny, I went in excited at the prospect of an action final fantasy 7 and left immensely disappointed considering it like kind of is, but is more a mash up that doesn't appeal to me as opposed to the action rpg I envisioned.


Considering XVI has a devil may cry battle director, designer, I'm more hoping for something that feels more like an action game.
 
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DecoReturns

DecoReturns

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,003
I still perfer Kingdom Hearts 2 combat since it's much faster paced.

Remake is a great start tho. Although I still have some issues with some aspects.

forgot To mention. I actually dislike summons in Remake. They're essentially positive with a finisher but I just find them annoying when they are in the battlefield lol
 
The Unsent

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,438
I felt it was a bit overdone, like fighting the scorpion robot with 3 stages, the combat played well, but the battles dragged on too much. The final bosses weren't that hard, but again I got tired by how long the sequences were.
 
ARobotCalledV

ARobotCalledV

Member
Aug 22, 2020
1,554
Remake has my favourite action battle system but Bravely Default/Second has my favourite JRPG battle system, due to the incredibly fun job system.
 
Dsezer

Dsezer

Member
Sep 22, 2020
353
I actually feel Resonance of Fate has the best combat of any JRPG. although, FF7R has sublime combat as well (never finished it however, got bored around chapter 8)!
 
sosainas

sosainas

Member
Sep 13, 2018
896
Pretty much my current favourite combat system in a RPG. It combines the best of turn and action systems. It is fun and strategic.
 
J-Soul

J-Soul

Member
Nov 11, 2020
406
I didn't like how my teammates are all idiots who never use their abilities unless I control them, but melee Barett is a lot of fun.
 
Strings

Strings

Member
Oct 27, 2017
31,419
Viale said:
Considering XVI has the devil may cry battle director, I'm more hoping for something that feels more like an action game.
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Not the battle director btw, just one of ~17 designers. Still a fab resume, but it's annoying to read that every time.

pnkVrXs.png
 

Deleted member 16876

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
It was a nice bridge between the original combat with an action combat. I liked it a lot.

If only the rest of the game was as fun as the combat though.
 
Callibretto

Callibretto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,492
Indonesia
I fell they could take it further, I want AI teammate to be more active, some implementation of basic party setup of tank, dps, and healer and aggro management or something. currently, enemies are more focused toward the character you control rather than going for the Tank role.

also, I would love some kind of combo chain or double/triple tech where you coordinate party attack for extra damage.
 
Melpomene

Melpomene

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jun 9, 2019
18,290
Aurc said:
The bar is very low (JRPGs are not known for their combat anyway), so I believe it, but sad if true. The game just felt super easy and mindless, and the constant pausing of real-time to go into a menu and select commands just constantly broke the flow for me. It felt like two weak combat systems glued together, rather than a singular strong one. The Materia system was also very dated and tedious, with it reaching the peak of that during the game's final dungeon.
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I don't particularly agree with any of this. There are plenty of JRPGs with competent combat and many with genuinely great combat - you just have to actually like the way JRPGs do combat. And FF7R's combat system follows a pretty similar baseline to what plenty of (good) RTS games have done in the past in allowing for the pausing of real-time combat to issue commands, just adapted for RPG battles. The pacing in combat is questionable at times, but it's a reasonably cohesive system and more or less the only logical choice I can think of with regards to how combat should have been handled for this project.
 
ZeroCDR

ZeroCDR

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,143
I absolutely adored it. Hard mode was in my top 5 for 2020.

Should have been unlocked from the start.
 
Morrigan

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,361
This thread offends me deeply.

OP, have you played a single Falcom game?
 
Tathanen

Tathanen

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,038
Agreed, it's an excellent fusion of action and menu based combat in a party based system where switching members drastically changes the play style. They nailed it.
 
Lobster Roll

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,380
It's a character action game, which is why the premise of the thread is kinda funny to me. But if people like it, then more power to them.
 
Spacejaws

Spacejaws

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,815
Scotland
I don't really like it. I've played a few hours but I hate how the character you control becomes the aggro target which was one of my biggest complaints of FFXV battle system. Feels like XV 2.0 combat to me.
 
ArkhamFantasy

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,550
It's pretty amazing that they took two things that most JRPG fans would argue are the opposite of each other (ATB and Action combat) and made a hybrid system thats better than either individually.
 
Uzupedro

Uzupedro

Banned
May 16, 2020
12,234
Rio de Janeiro
I enjoyed but I wish it was more ''balanced'', not in the original meaning of the word, like, it wants to be two things(Action/Turn Based) but in the ends it panders mostly to action, for me the only times it is the perfect middle ground between Action and Turn based are the bossfights, bro the bossfights are so good to play, I really wish the whole game was like that.
Maybe the hard mode forces you to play more strategically but I think this would be more of an artificial difficulty, basically pumps the enemy damage up in order to force the player to play slowly.
Still very good though.
 
Qvoth

Qvoth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,896
i had a lot of fun with ff7r combat, but probably still not the best
grandia's system probably is my favorite (might just be nostalgia talking)
 
MrWindUpBird

MrWindUpBird

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,686
It's definitely the best that Final Fantasy in particular has come to having good combat in the real-time action combat, but uh...No absolutely not.
 
Viale

Viale

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,617
Lobster Roll said:
It's a character action game, which is why the premise of the thread is kinda funny to me. But if people like it, then more power to them.
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I dunno, it's like a weird in between more than a character action imo. I'd even argue it leans more into turn based than it does action, and the "action" is basically just filler between your ATB commands.

I wished it was more character action like something like KH(which still isn't a character action game but closer than 7R lol) , cause maybe I would have enjoyed it a lot more then.
 
The Last One

The Last One

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,585
It's the best one ever in an JRPG, yeah. I hope they don't mess it up on Parte 2.
 

Deleted member 1839

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,625
Lobster Roll said:
It's a character action game, which is why the premise of the thread is kinda funny to me. But if people like it, then more power to them.
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You keep repeating it's a character action game but it's far from it. Hardly functions the same in line with Bayonetta or DMC.

This is the same for people that says Bloodborne is somehow a character action game.
 
Mesoian

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,522
Tahnit said:
Try replaying in hard mode. You will change your mind then.
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Like, that's not a great argument though.

"Artificially goose the damage levels and HP values and THEN the game gets interesting" doesn't fly. If it's not interesting on default, making it take longer or be more tedious isn't going to change that.

I personally don't mind the combat system, but I think the job does an absolutely terrible job explaining the stun/damage system which makes playing a lot of the game feel more complex than it really is. I know a lot of people who never finished because they just didn't understand it. I think it has the same problem that Yakuza 7 has, which is interesting, y7 being turn based. The inability to manipulate enemy position on a fully 3d battlefield places too much emphasis on slower, less efficient means of combat, often times lengthening regular battles for no real reason and making adds more dangerous than they should be. You get used to it, but it never stops being an issue. There were too many times where the only thing breaking huge chains for good damage was the fact that there was a stupid add pressing itself up against a wall or hugging the backline doing virtually nothing.

Huey said:
I think I still prefer grandia 2 tbh
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WORD, even though that game ALSO has the same issues as y7 and FF7r. 3's combat system is actually a lot better, but that's mostly due to improved combat pacing and enemy pathing, which makes running to enemies a lot more efficient and makes the weird enemy placement a lot less annoying.
 
DecoReturns

DecoReturns

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,003
I think my biggest disappointment with remakes combat are the bosses which I feel make the combat a slog.

tho I'm in the minority, I felt most bosses in Remake were annoying to fight or dragged on and failed to properly show remakes combat
 
thetrin

thetrin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,652
Atlanta, GA
Aurc said:
The bar is very low (JRPGs are not known for their combat anyway), so I believe it, but sad if true.
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Whoa, what?! There are a LOT of people that play JRPGs for their combat, me included.

And I would dispute FFVII having the best JRPG combat. It's fun, but it has serious flaws that make complex strategy more difficult than it needs to be.

Aurc said:
Like Scott the Woz, I guess I'm not an RPG guy? I liked Persona 5's combat, though, from what I played. I thought that was more interesting than 7R's, despite me being a turn-based hater.
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If you're a turn-based hater, you're not going to be able to find a lot of great JRPG systems. Many of the best ones are turn based.
 
Zyrox

Zyrox

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,630
I absolutely loved the combat. Also shoutouts to the great enemy (and especially) boss design. Good combat wouldn't amount to much without good enemies to fight.

The only thing that feels kind of clunky is fighting aerial enemies with melee attacks. Hope they can iron that out a little more. Otherwise I was super happy with it.
I usually don't replay games but I started a hard mode playthrough based on how fun the combat is alone (also shoutouts to them changing certain things up in Hard Mode and not just increasing numbers).
 
Lobster Roll

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,380
Shiba said:
You keep repeating it's a character action game but it's far from it. Hardly functions the same in line with Bayonetta or DMC.

This is the same for people that says Bloodborne is somehow a character action game.
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As a JRPG lifer, it leans far more into character action than JRPG. It is what it is.
 
silva1991

silva1991

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,500
Aurc said:
The bar is very low (JRPGs are not known for their combat anyway), so I believe it, but sad if true. The game just felt super easy and mindless, and the constant pausing of real-time to go into a menu and select commands just constantly broke the flow for me. It felt like two weak combat systems glued together, rather than a singular strong one. The Materia system was also very dated and tedious, with it reaching the peak of that during the game's final dungeon.
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Goodness I'm trying to find something I agree with here. And I have never seen anyone criticizing the combat from challenge perspective until now. Challenge was one of the best parts of the combat., especially hard mode.
 
Perkin_Warbeck

Perkin_Warbeck

Member
Jan 27, 2020
3,385
Washington, DC
Spacejaws said:
I don't really like it. I've played a few hours but I hate how the character you control becomes the aggro target which was one of my biggest complaints of FFXV battle system. Feels like XV 2.0 combat to me.
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The combat is the biggest reason I bounced so hard of FFXV. I was really worried about the Remake when it sounded like an evolution of FFXV, but I think not having to do all the weird warping around and general jank in FFXV helped me a lot.
 
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