2030 engine regulations should...

  • more battery, more harvesting, more more more

    Votes: 11 11.1%
  • the full Domenicali. No hybrid, no turbo. Smaller lighter cars.

    Votes: 36 36.4%
  • The half domenicali. No hybrid, keep the turbos. Smaller lighter cars.

    Votes: 52 52.5%

  • Total voters
    99
  • Poll closed .
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DBT85

DBT85

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Oct 26, 2017
16,729
Mercedes in 'sixth gear' as Toto Wolff reveals key breakthrough in 2024 F1 struggles


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Mercedes slacking off as expected, the cars have 8 gears. For shame.

when your key breakthrough is not an actual upgrade but maybe realising why your previous upgrades weren't working and then you stil have to make new upgrades and hope your breakthrough was correct this time
Every part is like a new signing upgrade once you know how to actually use it.

I can't believe I'm actually looking forward to watching Ferrari for non joke reasons
 

Aiii

何これ
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Oct 24, 2017
8,422
I mean I like that he goes "the problem is the other people are developing their cars." If only the other teams stopped being bullies and stopped development until Mercedes was on the same pace as them, that's the solution we need.

Fix your fucking car, Toto.
 

Lockheartilly9799

Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Nov 23, 2017
5,064
Mercedes copium already in full effect. Dang. It will be fun to see how these "upgrades" upgrade the car. Maybe Lewis will finish 5th instead of 6th. oooooh la la
 

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,343
Yeah, I'll believe it when I... nah, screw that, I'll never believe it.

Already just sort of floating through this season, waiting to see what goodness happens for Ferrari next year...
 

Vic_Viper

Thanked By SGM
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,254
How can Merc still be "lost" when Toto just said they finally figured out their problem?
 

Aiii

何これ
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Oct 24, 2017
8,422
How can Merc still be "lost" when Toto just said they finally figured out their problem?
Because Toto is a lawyer and not an engineer. (note: I don't know if this is actually true, I've no idea what Toto studied, if he studied anything at all)

Also, not the first time he said they figured it out. Not the last time either.
 

Shiz Padoo

Member
Oct 13, 2018
6,330
There would obviously be an outgoing person at Ferrari, so as long as Newey is okay with the same salary there's nothing to worry about.
 
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DBT85

DBT85

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Oct 26, 2017
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Mercedes slacking off as expected, the cars have 8 gears. For shame.
There would obviously be an outgoing person at Ferrari, so as long as Newey is okay with the same salary there's nothing to worry about.
If he's one of the top earners his salary won't matter anyway as the top 3 are outside the cap which does not include the drivers. So if it were Ferrari, then Lewis and Charles are excluded, as is Newey, Fred and one other.
 

Skydog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
820
That's pretty wild. New chassis when though

"Drivers will also gain the ability to restart their own engines using the hybrid systems. The series expects this will reduce the number of caution periods required as drivers whose engines stop after an incident will no longer require outside assistance to resume."

While this is obviously a good thing, I'll miss the crew hauling ass to the scene to shove those starters up the gearboxes on the side of a live race track.
 

Humanity

Member
Aug 31, 2019
11,473
Is no one going to call out DBT85 for posting the same 6th gear joke twice on the same page? Are we this scared of his iron rule over the thread?!
 

SP.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,790
IndyCar being a spec series I guess it's not abnormal to make a big change like that.
 

Sec0nd

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,193
Seems like the most sensible thing to do. Williams has some potential with Vowles at the helm and kinda is the safest bet of the lower end of the field to rise up the ranks.

He isn't going back to the RB teams ever, I think. Ferrari is full for the time being. Merc would've been an interesting option, but I can see why Sainz or an Antonelli would be more interesting. McLaren is full. Williams is definitely his best bet for the time being.
 

thenexus6

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,482
UK
I thought for a moment Alex to Merc, but happy he's staying at Williams. Glad one of my favourites is staying on the grid for the foreseeable future.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,576
I think it's a little weird that people talk like this is another piece of the 2025 puzzle falling into place. Albon had a contract until 2026 already, we knew this from Red Bull who tried to get him out for 2025 and couldn't do it.

So this seems to just be one more year for him at Williams, but I imagine this was negotiated to get him a pretty significant pay raise to make sure he stays with the team.

And good for Williams, Albon is a great driver. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of faith that Williams will be anything other than a backmarker even past 2026.
 

Irrotational

Prophet of Truth
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Oct 25, 2017
7,419
I hadn't really thought about it but with the back marker teams they're also betting on 2026 engines. If one of the engine manufacturers pulls out a cracker you could catapult up pretty high.

Is there any news or public info on who has signed for what engine in 26 and beyond?
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,576
I hadn't really thought about it but with the back marker teams they're also betting on 2026 engines. If one of the engine manufacturers pulls out a cracker you could catapult up pretty high.

Is there any news or public info on who has signed for what engine in 26 and beyond?

Yeah, that's already set in stone.

Mercedes: Merc, McLaren, Williams

Ferrari: Ferrari, Haas

Red Bull/Ford: Red Bull, RB

Honda: Aston Martin

Audi: Audi

Renault: Renault
 

Irrotational

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Oct 25, 2017
7,419
Yeah, that's already set in stone.

Mercedes: Merc, McLaren, Williams

Ferrari: Ferrari, Haas

Red Bull/Ford: Red Bull, RB

Honda: Aston Martin

Audi: Audi

Renault: Renault
This is F1 though...what if the stone is actually fibreglass and a grey can of spray paint*?

*but it costs $2,000 to look at it for a weekend.

Being more serious - I do wonder how air tight those contracts are. I can't imagine anyone signing a 5+ year contract for engines, without some kind of break clauses and re-pricing clauses.

Maybe it's just set in stone because packaging the car around the engine (and looms and connectors etc) is too hard and costly to change. A second a lap would be worth a bit of hassle though!
 
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DBT85

DBT85

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Oct 26, 2017
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This is F1 though...what if the stone is actually fibreglass and a grey can of spray paint*?

*but it costs $2,000 to look at it for a weekend.

Being more serious - I do wonder how air tight those contracts are. I can't imagine anyone signing a 5+ year contract for engines, without some kind of break clauses and re-pricing clauses.

Maybe it's just set in stone because packaging the car around the engine (and looms and connectors etc) is too hard and costly to change. A second a lap would be worth a bit of hassle though!
You could break your englne clause if you want but there would be a financial penalty from the supplier I imagine. If you can't get a new deal then one of the manufacturers with only one supply will have to supply you. In the past this was Renault which is why Horner kicked up a fuss as he had already burned every bridge possible with them. For 2026 it could be any of Audi, Renault, RBPT or Honda. No idea how it would be decided.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,576
This is F1 though...what if the stone is actually fibreglass and a grey can of spray paint*?

*but it costs $2,000 to look at it for a weekend.

Being more serious - I do wonder how air tight those contracts are. I can't imagine anyone signing a 5+ year contract for engines, without some kind of break clauses and re-pricing clauses.

Maybe it's just set in stone because packaging the car around the engine (and looms and connectors etc) is too hard and costly to change. A second a lap would be worth a bit of hassle though!

Yeah, you want long engine contracts in general since the chassis is build around the engine.

McLarens contract with Mercedes was renewed last year and goes until 2030.

But it is interesting what will happen from 2026. These regulations haven't been particularly engine focused for years. The gains from a better engine seem minimal as everything gets optimised across and the power is frozen.

But from 2026 engines might start to matter a whole lot more.
 
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DBT85

DBT85

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Oct 26, 2017
16,729
But from 2026 engines might start to matter a whole lot more
They absolutely will. Less so I think from the direct power the icu or motor can contribute, that I imagine will not improve much if at all over what those parts can do now (apart from the motor getting bigger obvs). Bit the software side of harvesting power for storage and later deployment will be very important, not unlike the trickery used for the Exhaust Blown Diffuser where you'd have the engine revving High just to act as an air pump to seal the floor.
 

beebop

Member
May 30, 2023
2,040
And I bet the work powering their WEC contender is helping.
Yeah indeed.

Audi are new and unknown, but that's inherently problematic. Red Bull's program is running behind, and are poaching Mercedes staff to catch up having a negative impact on them.

Honda and Renault are also pretty stable engine teams that should do well.
 

Humanity

Member
Aug 31, 2019
11,473
the innovative front wing produced, in certain situations, even more downforce than what the gallery and the CFD indicated , with obvious and important repercussions in terms of balance and with the rear becoming highly unstable.
Simulations issues and Mercedes name a more iconic duo
 

Irrotational

Prophet of Truth
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Oct 25, 2017
7,419
DBT85 Dragon Puncher thanks both👍 it's interesting to know that McLaren are signed up until 2030, as that shows just how long the contracts are.

I wonder how they handle fluctuating costs etc.

I do hope we get some real shenanigans with the engines. If the engine can re start I wonder if they do things like total shutoffs at the end of straights to conserve fuel and use it in the next acceleration phase. (I know current speculation is the opposite, where they will stay on maximum blast to recharge the desperately too small battery).

As a fully trained Hamilton/Mercedes fan I no longer bother using hopium for the next race, or the next upgrade, I save it for whole new seasons (and a new team to support!)
 
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DBT85

DBT85

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Oct 26, 2017
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So I just saw comments from Domenicali saying that if the sustainable fuels work out in this engine cycle, it would be a good idea for the 2030 engine regs to ask whether hybridization is still warranted.

More noise, less weight. I'm sure the new street tracks will be so happy!