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FIA Formula One 2019 |OT| Oil Mining vs. Energy Drinks vs. Big Tobacco, pick your poison

FairyEmpire

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,879
Max is finally starting to deliver. The raw talent has always been there, now he is settled and more mature behind the wheel. Max is still far from the finished article (worryingly for everyone else).

Too many damn kids come in to F1 when they are far from ready, I hate how F1 has become a "finishing school" for young talent. I don't want to watch drivers learning their craft in F1, lower categories/formula exist for a reason.
I've been saying this for the longest time. Drivers like Vettel or Verstappen did great on their first seasons, but they were also very raw, getting in a lot of accidents and lacking some racecraft. The reason is simple: they had a giant sponsor pushing them from series to series as soon as they became comfortable enough with the car, as they always had the next seat warmed up regardless of the results in the championship. Therefore they never really needed to "deliver or stay home", to handle a whole championship with its ups and downs: they were just thrown into F1 'cause they're fast. That's cool and all, but they wasted a couple seasons trying to not crash into anything that moves instead of learning that between GP3 and GP2.
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,302
Max learning his craft has still been better than loads of drivers who came and went. You'd rather see Vergne or Ericsson ?
Yeah completely agree. Far more interesting to watch someone raw but talented than someone polished but mediocre. Only shame is that some drivers who probably did have great potential end up getting chewed up and spat out by the machine.
 

FeD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,402
I've been saying this for the longest time. Drivers like Vettel or Verstappen did great on their first seasons, but they were also very raw, getting in a lot of accidents and lacking some racecraft. The reason is simple: they had a giant sponsor pushing them from series to series as soon as they became comfortable enough with the car, as they always had the next seat warmed up regardless of the results in the championship. Therefore they never really needed to "deliver or stay home", to handle a whole championship with its ups and downs: they were just thrown into F1 'cause they're fast. That's cool and all, but they wasted a couple seasons trying to not crash into anything that moves instead of learning that between GP3 and GP2.
Well you even see it with the rookies this year who did do GP2. Barring Russell who hasn't really put a foot wrong this season, both Norris and Albon had some silly mistakes. I'm glad though that Formula 1 still requires some adjustment from the drivers coming up. Hell even Leclerc is pretty rough still from time to time with mistakes in his second season. And that's completely fine in my book.
 

SMD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,605
Yeah completely agree. Far more interesting to watch someone raw but talented than someone polished but mediocre. Only shame is that some drivers who probably did have great potential end up getting chewed up and spat out by the machine.
This is where F1 needs more smaller teams but competitively, I think the grid could handle 24 cars if there was better distribution of prize money and perhaps one more engine supplier - something to make it feasible for a small team or two to try some outlandish things and give chances to drivers who the bigger teams don't want to take a punt on.
 

Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,278
He's definitely on the list of drivers who need to have an awesome second half to keep their seat. If he wins 5 times, he'll probably be back. Bottas, Gasly, Grosjean, and Kubica could all be elsewhere next season.
Not a chance. I'm sure that Toto said that he'll be pretty much making the decision over the summer break but I reckon that decision is how to inform Valterri that he's being let go, unless they can somehow get Ocon into Renault.

It's a tough position as he's not done badly as a No2 driver. However, the fact remains that he's already 66 points behind his teamate and only 8 in front of Verstappen despite being in a car that until recently was by far the class of the field. Let's be honest, how many races will it take Verstappen to move up into 2nd place in the championship? One? Two? You can be a good driver but in a top team you've at least got to be pushing or backing up your teammate and currently he's doing neither.
 

FairyEmpire

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,879
Well you even see it with the rookies this year who did do GP2. Barring Russell who hasn't really put a foot wrong this season, both Norris and Albon had some silly mistakes. I'm glad though that Formula 1 still requires some adjustment from the drivers coming up. Hell even Leclerc is pretty rough still from time to time with mistakes in his second season. And that's completely fine in my book.
Absolutely, but that just kinda reinforces my point: even drivers who went by the normal GP3/F3 to F3000/GP2/F2 route can be a bit messy when coming into F1, and then you have a lot of drivers (from the Red Bull side of things, usually) who did okay in Formula Renault 3.5 or some other relatively minor series, so that was reason enough to throw them quickly into F1, possibly burning their career forever. Buemi has been winning everywhere he went since he fell out of F1 after this. Drivers like Alguersuari barely had a chance. Kvyat was thrown into the deep water, failed at first but is seeminly having a bit of resurgence - if Red Bull wasn't so weak right now in terms of young drivers in line, he'd be out of the program too. Gasly is the worst performing driver in a Red Bull in the decade and he's only safe because there's just not many options available from their own programme.

In a way it's an interesting era. If you look back at 2006-2007, you could see drivers jumping in from any category and "easily" qualify a couple tenths away from the rivals. Even absolutely rookies would barely bang it because cars were comparatively easy to drive. The mere fact Hamilton was competitive from the first moment barely even making errors is testament not only to Lewis' status as one of the best drivers ever in F1, but also to how damn easy those cars were (compare it to 2008-2009, where traction control ban, KERS shenanigans, simpler aero, etc. caused TONS of errors and accidents, even by Hamilton himself). Now even a dominant force from F3 and F2 like Leclerc needs to adapt a bit, as his pace is not quite stable yet, his tyre management is not always ideal and he's doing errors which cause him to find the wall more often than one would think.

This is a part of F1 that works: Formula One cars are beasts that you need massive skills to handle. There was a time where any decent rookie could easily qualify close to the leading pack even on the first try. Nowadays it's a lot harder, and I personally like this. But it's also why drivers should not be skipping F3 and F2, because those extra races knowing the tracks, the Pirellis, understanding cars closer to F1's philosophy... those are very important formative years, and I am 100% convinced that drivers like Vettel or Verstappen would have found their peak performance a lot quicker had they had to sweat in those categories. Vettel, in particular, because 2005-2008 GP2 was insanely competitive. On top of my head, those seasons had drivers like Rosberg, Kovalainen, Piquet, Hamilton, Glock, Filippi, Di Grassi, Buemi, Zuber, Senna, Grosjean...

Formula 1 has a ladder to climb for a reason, drivers (young ones in particular) shouldn't be able to circumvent it completely imho.
 

unicornKnight

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,413
Athens, Greece
Bottas is fine but at some point they have to invest on a better driver for when Lewis retires. They should get Ocon or Russel in there unless they plan to offer Max everything to get him when they need him.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,063
Bottas is fine but at some point they have to invest on a better driver for when Lewis retires. They should get Ocon or Russel in there unless they plan to offer Max everything to get him when they need him.

cover both bases. Get a younger driver in from their feeder ranks like ocon to settle in, show they can lead a team in the future, and earn strong constructor points while doing it. Groom them to replace Hamilton but also consider alternatives like poaching verstappen if needs be - either because your new driver might not be no1 material or you want to deny that talent to other teams
 

nekkid

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,360
Absolutely, but that just kinda reinforces my point: even drivers who went by the normal GP3/F3 to F3000/GP2/F2 route can be a bit messy when coming into F1, and then you have a lot of drivers (from the Red Bull side of things, usually) who did okay in Formula Renault 3.5 or some other relatively minor series, so that was reason enough to throw them quickly into F1, possibly burning their career forever. Buemi has been winning everywhere he went since he fell out of F1 after this. Drivers like Alguersuari barely had a chance. Kvyat was thrown into the deep water, failed at first but is seeminly having a bit of resurgence - if Red Bull wasn't so weak right now in terms of young drivers in line, he'd be out of the program too. Gasly is the worst performing driver in a Red Bull in the decade and he's only safe because there's just not many options available from their own programme.

In a way it's an interesting era. If you look back at 2006-2007, you could see drivers jumping in from any category and "easily" qualify a couple tenths away from the rivals. Even absolutely rookies would barely bang it because cars were comparatively easy to drive. The mere fact Hamilton was competitive from the first moment barely even making errors is testament not only to Lewis' status as one of the best drivers ever in F1, but also to how damn easy those cars were (compare it to 2008-2009, where traction control ban, KERS shenanigans, simpler aero, etc. caused TONS of errors and accidents, even by Hamilton himself). Now even a dominant force from F3 and F2 like Leclerc needs to adapt a bit, as his pace is not quite stable yet, his tyre management is not always ideal and he's doing errors which cause him to find the wall more often than one would think.

This is a part of F1 that works: Formula One cars are beasts that you need massive skills to handle. There was a time where any decent rookie could easily qualify close to the leading pack even on the first try. Nowadays it's a lot harder, and I personally like this. But it's also why drivers should not be skipping F3 and F2, because those extra races knowing the tracks, the Pirellis, understanding cars closer to F1's philosophy... those are very important formative years, and I am 100% convinced that drivers like Vettel or Verstappen would have found their peak performance a lot quicker had they had to sweat in those categories. Vettel, in particular, because 2005-2008 GP2 was insanely competitive. On top of my head, those seasons had drivers like Rosberg, Kovalainen, Piquet, Hamilton, Glock, Filippi, Di Grassi, Buemi, Zuber, Senna, Grosjean...

Formula 1 has a ladder to climb for a reason, drivers (young ones in particular) shouldn't be able to circumvent it completely imho.
And that’s exactly how it should be. You want those that are not the absolute best to be obvious highlighted (Gasly, for example), because they have no place in the top flight.
 

Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,278
Bottas is fine but at some point they have to invest on a better driver for when Lewis retires. They should get Ocon or Russel in there unless they plan to offer Max everything to get him when they need him.
Pretty sure that he's top of their list for the 2021 season as, let's be honest, he and Hamilton are very much in a league of their own.That's no disrespect to the like of Vettel and Grosjean but those two are operating on a completely different level.

Personally I see Hamilton either retiring or going to Ferrari at the end of next season so I reckon that Toto must be into full 'butter up Jos' mode at the minute to try and sway Verstappen by mid-point next year.

I'm sure Ferrari want him to but I think at this stage of his career he'd be better served away from the atmosphere and pressure that you seem to get within the Maranello team.
 

Sec0nd

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
562
I almost can't see Verstappen going to another team in the foreseeable future. I think he's the kind of guy that enjoys (for the time being at least) being the underdog. Chipping away at the big guys. Especially with the growth of the Honda motors. And I just think that he really is at home with the Red Bull team.

Could be wrong though, but he'd lose a lot of excitement if he'd switch I think. Both for the underdog rooting fans, as for himself. I think he wants to fight for the Championship on 'his own' merit. But who knows.
 

Noppie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,576
I almost can't see Verstappen going to another team in the foreseeable future. I think he's the kind of guy that enjoys (for the time being at least) being the underdog. Chipping away at the big guys. Especially with the growth of the Honda motors. And I just think that he really is at home with the Red Bull team.

Could be wrong though, but he'd lose a lot of excitement if he'd switch I think. Both for the underdog rooting fans, as for himself. I think he wants to fight for the Championship on 'his own' merit. But who knows.
He's still a very competitive driver that wants to win races and championships. The underdog role is fine for now, but in a couple of years if RB is still the underdog, he will no doubt get unhappy. If Honda / RB keeps improving like they are currently though, I doubt the underdog role will remain.
 

Sec0nd

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
562
He's still a very competitive driver that wants to win races and championships. The underdog role is fine for now, but in a couple of years if RB is still the underdog, he will no doubt get unhappy. If Honda / RB keeps improving like they are currently though, I doubt the underdog role will remain.
Definitely. I don't see him switching within the next two to three years if the opportunity would arise. Obviously depending on the growth of Honda and Red Bull. But after that, all bets are off.
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,210
Chesire, UK

The last 10 minutes of this race's press conference are gold.

The best three drivers on the grid rating their season so far (and each others), followed by top bants about Alonso and massive shade at Gasly.
 

Lazlow

Member
Oct 27, 2017
378

The last 10 minutes of this race's press conference are gold.

The best three drivers on the grid rating their season so far (and each others), followed by top bants about Alonso and massive shade at Gasly.
Always love Vettel in these, he always comes across well. Probably because things are quite calm amongst those 3, they all know Lewis is running away with it, so it can be quite relaxed; not like the Lewis-Nico days, although Vettel was on top form then too.
 

Peek-a-boo!

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,610
Woodbridge
It’s a dry Hungaroring. I wouldn’t get your hopes up.
It will be the 4th F1 race I've ever watched. I think I picked a good season to start watching this sport!

I have only one pet peeve so far and that's the TV direction, with its constant close-ups. I want more helicopter shots showing cars making their way through the track, you getter a better sense of their driving styles and status of the race in general. But nope, TV director wants to focus on the crowd instead. :| How are football TV directors, who have to juggle so much, better at this than F1?
I really wouldn't get my hopes up.
Lewis is an absolute beast at this track.
I see him leading by the end of the first lap and then pulling away till the win.
Remember that Ham qualified that high with DRS not working towards the end of the track.

We'll find out in a few hours.
I‘m super-duper glad it turned out to be the fourth exciting race on the trot!

I watched the Hungary GP at a sports bar, and everybody was glued to the telly during the last 20-odd laps...

Ferrari could have been lapped. Another mistake at Seb pit stop with no pressure but everything is fine. Shares are high , Camilerri and Elkann are enjoying the summer with their millions / billions ... IF RB had a competent driver they would be second in the WCC by a big margin but yes everything is fine. Amazing weekend , blessed by the sun , good vibes #summerbreak

Fuck this management for real.
 

softtack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,231
Imagine being Gasly and watching that conference. Fucking hell.
He's still a very competitive driver that wants to win races and championships. The underdog role is fine for now, but in a couple of years if RB is still the underdog, he will no doubt get unhappy. If Honda / RB keeps improving like they are currently though, I doubt the underdog role will remain.
This.
 
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Qronicle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
134
Belgium
Just got home from the grand prix (Hungary to Belgium is quite the drive). It was the first race I’ve watched live on location. Overall a nice experience, mostly thanks to the good vibes amongst the Verstappen & Kubica fans.
We had okay seats with a view of the last part of the main straight and turn 1, so we got to see the insane overtake attempt from Hamilton on Verstappen with the backmarker from very close by. I will definitely remember that for a looong time. Also very jarring to see the gap differences in F1 vs the other classes, although I guess this track was a bit special since only 4 drivers finished in the same lap. Max en Ham on a completely different level.

Maybe I’ll post some more impressions tomorrow, together with some pics if anybody’s interested. I’ve got clothes to wash from my Hungary trip now :D
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,210
Chesire, UK

Ugh.

Thought this shit might be over with Bernie gone. I guess money still talks even if your not an authoritarian loving little troll.
 

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
5,165
I just watched episode 1 of the Netflix show and it was pretty awesome. Riccardo's such a charismatic guy. This season of F1 is my first so it's weird seeing him at Red Bull.

I also chuckled that within 60 seconds of introducing Magnussen they show him barelling into other cars like a nutter. I really don't like that dude.

Also....what the FUCK at the Haas pitstop nightmare in Melbourne!? Both cars retired? I can only imagine the thread hilarity last year...
 

FairyEmpire

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,879
Azerbaijan, China, and UAE aren't exactly beacons of human rights either.
Or Hungary either for that matter, where free press, indipendent institutions and fair elections are going farther and farther away. F1 really doesn't care as long as there's a return in money. literally the only time they skipped a race altogether was Bahrain 2011 where they feared the protests and the government fighting back with force might actually hurt their own crews. Other than that they really had no issues with the whole thing.
 

Razgreez

Banned
Apr 13, 2018
366
Could be wrong though, but he'd lose a lot of excitement if he'd switch I think. Both for the underdog rooting fans, as for himself. I think he wants to fight for the Championship on 'his own' merit. But who knows.
If that were true he'd not have the performance related exit clause in his contract. Be in no doubt that he wants to win as much as possible as soon as possible. They all do
 

AlphaMale

Member
Dec 21, 2017
212
Hungary was as decent race, but I don't think it was Mercedes' decision to pit Lewis for a new set of tires that won them the race. I think that decision was an obvious one given Vettel was well behind. They could have had a slow pitstop and/or midfield traffic and still had a fight for the win. Of course, the worst they could do would be to stay in 2nd place, so pitting was an obvious move.

What I think cost Verstappen the win was having a very uncompetitive #2 driver in Gasly. If he had decent pace, or Ferarri for that matter, the gap would have been too close for Mercedes to bring Lewis in. If 3rd place was even anywhere near the 20 second mark of Lewis, Mercedes would never have taken the gamble.

But neither Gasly, Vettel, nor LeClerc were able to come within a pitstop distance of the front 2 runners. Amazing...
 

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
5,165
Gonna grab F1 2019 tomorrow. Also got Motorsport Manager lined up for this weekend. And up to episode 2 of Drive to Survive. (LOL at Grosjean driving into a wall at Baku for no reason)
 

RS1984

Member
Dec 29, 2017
431


Edit: actually I don't know why they cut the "I think Ericsson hit me" part. It's right after the "NO! NO!" at 2:08m, when he hits the wall. The thing is that Ericsson wasn't even close to him. Grosjean had crash into the wall under safety car all by himself.
The original clip is in the beginning of this video. I love this meme.

 

Moss

Member
Oct 27, 2017
871
Max learning his craft has still been better than loads of drivers who came and went. You'd rather see Vergne or Ericsson ?
Oh come on now, that is hardly a fair choice is it? I'll go for option C, drivers that have experience in lower formula and good race craft. I won't deny that watching Max develop hasn't been entertaining, when he wasn't binning it or crashing into someone... Simply put, the mistakes he made should not happen at this level. This goes for everyone, I don't mean to single out Max.

I've been saying this for the longest time. Drivers like Vettel or Verstappen did great on their first seasons, but they were also very raw, getting in a lot of accidents and lacking some racecraft. The reason is simple: they had a giant sponsor pushing them from series to series as soon as they became comfortable enough with the car, as they always had the next seat warmed up regardless of the results in the championship. Therefore they never really needed to "deliver or stay home", to handle a whole championship with its ups and downs: they were just thrown into F1 'cause they're fast. That's cool and all, but they wasted a couple seasons trying to not crash into anything that moves instead of learning that between GP3 and GP2.
I remember the early days of Vettel at RedBull. Most friday free practice sessions he would end up, at best, spinning the car or at worst having a serious wreck. He was always trying to find the limit, which in fairness was his job, but too often went over it. He had far fewer incidents in quali or the races, however, it took him some time to settle. And then he began to dominate the sport.

There is already talk (silly season), of Mick Schumacher coming into F1. The boy has just won his first F2 race of his career ffs. Sponsors sure would love the Schumacher "brand" back at the top level, no matter if he is ready or not.
 

Fisico

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,140
Paris
There is already talk (silly season), of Mick Schumacher coming into F1. The boy has just won his first F2 race of his career ffs. Sponsors sure would love the Schumacher "brand" back at the top level, no matter if he is ready or not.
And a sprint race in top of that, winning feature is a much bigger achievement.
Let him race in F2 next year, doesn't make sense to put him in F1 before 2021 at the earliest.
 

massivekettle

Banned
Aug 7, 2018
554

The last 10 minutes of this race's press conference are gold.

The best three drivers on the grid
rating their season so far (and each others), followed by top bants about Alonso and massive shade at Gasly.
Vettel isn't a top 3 driver this season. That title belongs to Sainz. Vettel is a top-10 driver this season, top 5 at best if you discount early season performance more than recent performance.
 

Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,278
https://www.planetf1.com/news/bottas-will-think-differently-in-hamilton-battles/

Valtteri Bottas says he will “think differently” the next time he’s wheel-to-wheel with Lewis Hamilton after feeling his team-mate compromised him at the start of the Hungarian GP.

“Turn 3 was a bit on the limit, [Lewis] didn’t leave much room, and next time in Turn 2, where I lost, I’ll think differently.

As for team boss Toto Wolff, he feels Mercedes’ instance that their drivers leave one another space left Bottas open to the charging Hamilton.

There is an outside line outside Turn 2, and if you stick your nose out there and you are able to hold the position through the corner you are on the inside.

“We’ve seen it with the Toro Rossos and in Formula 2. The outside is a possible line.
I may be reading too much into it but it's sounding more and more like Bottas knows that he's on the way out, especially when the Team Principal contradicts the driver and says that it's a perfectly viable overtaking spot. Obviously I'm reading the quote not actually hearing it but it does sound a bit petulant, especially when the footage shows Hamilton drove around him completely fairly. In fact the only touch between them is when Bottas take far too shallow a line out of turn 3.

 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,276
Vettel isn't a top 3 driver this season. That title belongs to Sainz. Vettel is a top-10 driver this season, top 5 at best if you discount early season performance more than recent performance.
Max,Lewis and Seb are the 3 best drivers on the grid and it isn’t even close.

Naming someone like Sainz as a Top 3 driver must be a troll.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,063
https://www.planetf1.com/news/bottas-will-think-differently-in-hamilton-battles/



I may be reading too much into it but it's sounding more and more like Bottas knows that he's on the way out, especially when the Team Principal contradicts the driver and says that it's a perfectly viable overtaking spot. Obviously I'm reading the quote not actually hearing it but it does sound a bit petulant, especially when the footage shows Hamilton drove around him completely fairly. In fact the only touch between them is when Bottas take far too shallow a line out of turn 3.
sounding a bit like he is prepping his CV. ‘Oh I’d be much faster but team orders blah blah‘