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Oct 28, 2019
5,974
Leclerc tried the same manoeuvre much more aggressively in the opening lap against Norris, not that it excuses Vettel's move but it seems more drivers have a hand in it. Norris in turn did the same to Ricciardo if my memory serves me correctly.

Edit: Looks like we all watched the highlights on YouTube at the same time, lol.
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
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I don't feel like Vettel's move was particularly crazy. Drivers move over and try to squeeze others like that pretty frequently. Maybe not so handy doing so on teammates, though.

Vettel moved fairly much but did so relatively slowly with a very constant line. He shouldn't have moved that much, and Leclerc could have also reacted sooner. Vettel expected Leclerc to move, he didn't want to. Obviously mainly Vettel's fault but it was far from a crazy move. We see far worse nearly every weekend, the unlucky side of it was that they slightly touched which happened to damage both cars' tires. Normally in situations like this at worst they bang wheels and everyone goes on as always.
 

chuckddd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,136


Also, I don't think very highly of Seb's nor Charles' racecraft. Both are dangerous, Leclerc in particular.
 

chuckddd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,136
Max and Charles are about the same in my book. Max was actually pretty calm for most of this season. Charles is always swiping at other cars but then he holds his line like he's driving a 4x4.
 

DavidDesu

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,718
Glasgow, Scotland
Just watched the highlights. Such a shame for Albon. Guy is doing solid work and I'm so happy for him, he's such a down to earth humble guy from interviews I've seen and he's had an unlikely rise, but is proving he is worthy as far as I'm concerned.

Vettel totally to blame. Leclerc gave him enough room, he even started moving away as Vettel squeezed him (needlessly). That was ALL Vettel I'm afraid. I like the guy but it's like he's going backwards in terms of maturity. Really throws his toys out the pram.
 

Fierro

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
960
Since Hamilton won the championship, I have not followed the reason of the season. My first year actually watching this sport and I must say it was a pretty good ride. Can't wait for next year and the upcoming rule changes. Being part of this community has made it more accessible.
 

MAK11

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
473
Last time he wasn't it cost him a win in Austria, while in Monza he forced Hamilton off the track and got the win. From his point of view this is only logical and in line with the stewarding.
Yup.
IMO if Bottas' PU didn't overheat (which was bound to happen after nearly 4 laps being stuck in Charles gearbox) & he continued to try to overtake it would have resulted in a contact between the two car a surely a DNf for one or both of them. Valterri knew that. The Mercedes package simply didn't have the power to cleanly overtaken the Ferrari.
 

Deleted member 2254

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Oct 25, 2017
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if Bottas' PU didn't overheat (which was bound to happen after nearly 4 laps being stuck in Charles gearbox) & he continued to try to overtake it would have resulted in a contact between the two car a surely a DNf for one or both of them. Valterri knew that.

Hmm, so the long-known fact that Bottas is pretty fucking terrible at overtaking was in reality a well studied con, he actually knew that by attempting an overtake on Leclerc he would have been crashed out 100%, and thus he didn't even get close enough in DRS zone. And yet he kept on staying inches from the Ferrari instead of sitting in the usual 2-3 seconds of safety that would have allowed his tyres, brakes, engine, etc. some breathing room.

Sometimes the more time passes from the race the hotter the takes become.
 

chuckddd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,136
Last time he wasn't it cost him a win in Austria, while in Monza he forced Hamilton off the track and got the win. From his point of view this is only logical and in line with the stewarding.
Leclerc only seems dangerous when defending. Which is why Bottas was scared shitless when trying to overtake him.
This is the exactly the same problem that started with Max. Driving all around the racing line, diving, moving under braking, etc. The stewards let it go so the drivers just continued with it.
 
Jul 19, 2018
1,203
Since Hamilton won the championship, I have not followed the reason of the season. My first year actually watching this sport and I must say it was a pretty good ride. Can't wait for next year and the upcoming rule changes. Being part of this community has made it more accessible.

You should try and watch yesterday's race, the second half was great entertainment
 

Deleted member 55966

User requested account closure
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Apr 15, 2019
1,231
It was painful watching Bottas try and overtake LeClerc yesterday. The man just could not pass him with the best F1 car out there right now. I'm glad he didn't give up because that made the race worth it.

Also DBT85 thank you again for the movie recommendations. I watched Senna on Netflix right before the Brazil race. It was really well done and gave me a lot of context for Interlagos lol.
 

softtack

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,650
MEIN GOTT MUSS DAS SEIN

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Max and Charles are about the same in my book. Max was actually pretty calm for most of this season. Charles is always swiping at other cars but then he holds his line like he's driving a 4x4.
LeClerc is Walmart Verstappen.
 

King Picollo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
376
Seems like a racing incident one shouldn't have cut across the other should have got out of the way.

They're teammates and should have more awareness of leaving space for each other.
 

Astandahl

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,011
"Imma drive around in a car with a decapitation aid" I know yes that's also on Ferrari, but Leclerc driving Hamilton off the road in Monza isn't exactly a good look. I think both Ferrari cars are piloted by hot heads. Leclerc is at the very least the more diplomatic hot head. He sounds like middle management while he's complaining.
Leclerc has been extremely fair till Austria. The FIA pretty much said do what you want to the drivers and here we go. Norris made a very aggressive move in the straight as well so is not something restricted to one driver. These are the rules now and in fact Vettel didn't get a penalty for the crash which was his fault.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,063
Seems like a racing incident one shouldn't have cut across the other should have got out of the way.

They're teammates and should have more awareness of leaving space for each other.

the other should have gotten out if the way? Why? Wasn't even a corner - complete straight but if road and he was in the middle with plenty of space for vettel to try to pass either side. It was very passive for LeClerc standards.

I actually can't believe Vettel didn't get a penalty. If it's been a different team's car he hit I think he may have done
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,923
Leclerc has been extremely fair till Austria. The FIA pretty much said do what you want to the drivers and here we go. Norris made a very aggressive move in the straight as well so is not something restricted to one driver. These are the rules now and in fact Vettel didn't get a penalty for the crash which was his fault.
Yeah it's getting a bit weird with the stewards, I honestly think they're starting to set horrible precedents with their rulings, but I guess this is to "improve the show," which might end up creating an eventual horrible clusterfuck.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,239
It looks like they often base penalties based on consequences and how it "looks" now.

Vettel does a stupid move and takes out Leclerc - no penalty. I think that he didn't get a penalty because he was out of the race himself and the other part was his teammate. If he had done that to a car from another team he would have been penalized.

Hamilton has what looked like a race incident with Albon. Hamilton doesn't care about results anymore this season unless it's a win and feels bad for Albon missing his first podium so he says it's his fault and gets a penalty. If that had happened in a fight for P13 nothing would have been done about it.

Verstappen got away with bumping Leclerc off the track in Austria but since it's an "exciting" move at the end of the race and Leclerc can continue nothing is done about it.
 

Noppie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,770
It looks like they often base penalties based on consequences and how it "looks" now.

Vettel does a stupid move and takes out Leclerc - no penalty. I think that he didn't get a penalty because he was out of the race himself and the other part was his teammate. If he had done that to a car from another team he would have been penalized.

Hamilton has what looked like a race incident with Albon. Hamilton doesn't care about results anymore this season unless it's a win and feels bad for Albon missing his first podium so he says it's his fault and gets a penalty. If that had happened in a fight for P13 nothing would have been done about it.

Verstappen got away with bumping Leclerc off the track in Austria but since it's an "exciting" move at the end of the race and Leclerc can continue nothing is done about it.
That line of thinking makes sense if the situations you mention, you know, weren't handled properly. Hamilton definitely was in the wrong, Verstappen wasn't in the wrong. The only argument here is that Vettel could've gotten a penalty, sure.
 

Overdoziz

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,166
Hamilton has what looked like a race incident with Albon. Hamilton doesn't care about results anymore this season unless it's a win and feels bad for Albon missing his first podium so he says it's his fault and gets a penalty. If that had happened in a fight for P13 nothing would have been done about it.
What you mean like how Ricciardo did get penalised for basically the same mistake?
 

Olaf

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,419
Leclerc is a very stubborn driver. He even did illegal defending against Bottas. A dirty driver IMO.
 

unicornKnight

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Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,195
Athens, Greece
Hamilton has what looked like a race incident with Albon. Hamilton doesn't care about results anymore this season unless it's a win and feels bad for Albon missing his first podium so he says it's his fault and gets a penalty. If that had happened in a fight for P13 nothing would have been done about it.
Hamilton was thinking of Max, this is the only reason they pitted him after all. And since he had nothing to lose, he didn't think of the risk. It wasn't just an incident, he wasn't considerate of the other drive and I think even if it was a P13 battle it would have earned him a penalty.
 
OP
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Aiii

Aiii

何これ
Member
Oct 24, 2017
8,190
I don't recall he doing any of that, he was pretty agressive in terms of defense I give you that but didn't saw anything illegal, I only saw Bottas scared shitless of trying
It's not that Bottas is scared per se.

It's just that he just doesn't seem to be the kind of driver to make even a slightly risky move, ever.
 

Deleted member 2254

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Oct 25, 2017
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Leclerc has been extremely fair till Austria. The FIA pretty much said do what you want to the drivers and here we go. Norris made a very aggressive move in the straight as well so is not something restricted to one driver. These are the rules now and in fact Vettel didn't get a penalty for the crash which was his fault.

Yep, Leclerc became more aggressive when Max shoved him off the track and FIA told him "suck it up kid". He's now racing as hard as FIA allows it, and in fact he's not getting penalties for what he's doing, including the move on Norris or back in Monza with Hamilton. This is why I'm boring people's ass off with the whole "stewards need to be consistent" yadda-yadda: they can't just flip-flop between severity and freedom and not have backlash for it. If they want divebombs by Ricciardo, Max passing everywhere, Leclerc aggressively defending: that's a stance. They can't, however, back out from that from time to time just because some cases generated more media presence for being in the top 3 as opposed to a 15th place battle. They either go back to 10 years ago where everything was penalized or allow racing, in which case there's no point in discussing the Ferrari incident or how Leclerc defends because that's what the FIA allows them to do.

One of the most legendary overtakes in the history of the sport (Zanardi in Laguna Seca, "The Pass") was done with 4-wheels off the track (it wasn't F1 but the point stands). Right or wrong, they had a stance back then, and they allowed drivers to race based on those indications. Right now in F1 one race they're telling us that a minor unintentional cut that could have resulted in a crash (Canada) is not okay. That pushing off your opponent in the last lap to win (Austria) is okay. That defending without leaving enough room on the track (Monza) is okay. That hitting the rear tire of a car in an overtaking attempt (Brazil) is not okay. That changing your line while defending on a straight is okay (Brazil). They just gotta make up their fucking mind about what can be done and what can't be done, then even the fans would be a lot more calm in discussing incidents. But not even the FIA is consistent, so how could drivers or fans be?
 

FeD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,275
It is kinda crazy how this season turned out. Like at the start I could've never imagined we would've gotten so many decent to great to even classic races.
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
21,467
Have the top 3 drivers all vie for the championship at Abu Dhabi regardless of how many points they've accumulated during the season!

Have some special event that is worth a "cup" of its own like the Le Mans 24H or the Indy500. Throw in the reverse grid or BOP to change the predictable outcome. Enjoy the mayhem.
 
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