FIA Formula One 2019 |OT| Oil Mining vs. Energy Drinks vs. Big Tobacco, pick your poison

MAK11

Member
Oct 29, 2017
298
You can all bitch and moan all you want about the live coverage but one thing will never change (understandably) : they will always show you the race winner, 2nd & third places crossing the finish line live.
 

Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,731
You can all bitch and moan all you want about the live coverage but one thing will never change (understandably) : they will always show you the racer winner, 2nd & third places crossing the finish line live.
I remember on ITV they once missed the end of a race because of adverts. Think it was Ralf Schumacher though so I wasn't too sad!
 

FairyEmpire

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,256
You can all bitch and moan all you want about the live coverage but one thing will never change (understandably) : they will always show you the race winner, 2nd & third places crossing the finish line live.
They always show the winner in the last 2 turns, nobody is really hating on that. But they missed the entire midfield battle basically to follow an unlikely battle up front. At least in France they showed the replay of the chaos behind half a minute or so after the finish line, this time they just ignored it.
 

MAK11

Member
Oct 29, 2017
298
They always show the winner in the last 2 turns, nobody is really hating on that. But they missed the entire midfield battle basically to follow an unlikely battle up front. At least in France they showed the replay of the chaos behind half a minute or so after the finish line, this time they just ignored it.
Well two of the overtakes in the last highlight video were done on the final lap while Lewis, Max & Charles were crossing the line... In that case there was nothing to do unless they start doing some P-i-P crap. As someone who's been following F1 since the early 80s what with have now is simply amazing. Waiting a few minutes/hours for highlights isn't the end of the world. We literally had nothing just a few years ago.
 

kasane

Member
Oct 30, 2017
390
Everyone highlighting Russell's 21-0 are forgetting Max is 19-2 where the 2 he lost was one due to a penalty and another a red flag. Ricciardo moving away from Red bull made Max look like a god for the whole year.
 
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Member
Oct 24, 2017
3,916
Everyone highlighting Russell's 21-0 are forgetting Max is 19-2 where the 2 he lost was one due to a penalty and another a red flag. Ricciardo moving away from Red bull made Max look like a god for the whole year.
Purely looking at Qualifying it was 15-5 for Max last year as well. The guy just has amazing one lap pace.
 

deprecated

Member
Apr 15, 2019
350
Everyone highlighting Russell's 21-0 are forgetting Max is 19-2 where the 2 he lost was one due to a penalty and another a red flag. Ricciardo moving away from Red bull made Max look like a god for the whole year.
And Max "did it look like I lifted" Verstappen reminded us he can still be a clown. Highest highs and lowest lows with that dude.
 

5pectre

Member
Nov 16, 2017
698
I'm looking forward to see what 2021 will look like with the radical changes. What changes can we expect for 2020? Will it be another snooze fest with Mercedes, Ferrari and Redbull a tier above everyone else?
 

Overdoziz

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,679
Who wants to see Lewis Hamilton cross the line and win a race though? Just use splitscreen to show it while focusing on actual fights if they're still happening.
 

RaySpencer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,783
Who wants to see Lewis Hamilton cross the line and win a race though? Just use splitscreen to show it while focusing on actual fights if they're still happening.
Who wants to see the actual winner of the race winning the race? Hopefully everyone? Hehe

I want to see the good fights, but seeing the actual end of the race is pretty important to me, regardless of who the actual winner is.

I hear what you are saying, but watching the race winner cross the line and win the race is a really important part of the whole weekend. It should have all focus on it when it happens.
 

Overdoziz

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,679
Who wants to see the actual winner of the race winning the race? Hopefully everyone? Hehe

I want to see the good fights, but seeing the actual end of the race is pretty important to me, regardless of who the actual winner is.

I hear what you are saying, but watching the race winner cross the line and win the race is a really important part of the whole weekend. It should have all focus on it when it happens.
Something like this would be nice:

Maybe only one other screens instead of two and with proper camera angles and not just an onboard, but you get the point. Definitely shouldn't be used too often, but I think for something like the final lap this weekend it was the perfect moment.
 

2Bee

Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
6,521
I think this season was great, lots of highlights for me, like Sainz and Norris were great to follow all season long.

Lots of young talent coming on up.
 

RaySpencer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,783
Something like this would be nice:

Maybe only one other screens instead of two and with proper camera angles and not just an onboard, but you get the point. Definitely shouldn't be used too often, but I think for something like the final lap this weekend it was the perfect moment.
Personally, I would prefer to just see it after, it's kind of an information overload. I could get used to it if they started doing that. But for me, focusing on the race winner as it happens is pretty important to me.
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,915
Chesire, UK
They always show the winner in the last 2 turns, nobody is really hating on that. But they missed the entire midfield battle basically to follow an unlikely battle up front. At least in France they showed the replay of the chaos behind half a minute or so after the finish line, this time they just ignored it.
Several people were hating on exactly that.

Like, specifically and directly complaining about the main FOM feed showing Lewis crossing the line instead of Perez overtaking Norris.
Who wants to see Lewis Hamilton cross the line and win a race though? Just use splitscreen to show it while focusing on actual fights if they're still happening.
Every editor of every news bulletin that uses that clip in their race report, for a start.

Having the race winner crossing the line, with appropriate commentary, on the FOM World Feed is probably the single most crucial element of the whole weekend from a commercial broadcast perspective.

That 10 seconds of footage will have the most eyeballs on it by an order of magnitude over anything but the most dramatic of in-race incidents (I mean in the Senna/Prost or Schumacher/Hill WDC-deciding-collision tier of incident, not your average midfield battle).
 

Overdoziz

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,679
It was clear Lewis was going to win from lap one. Obviously I get they 'need' to show it, but it was about as remarkable as a Williams finishing last that race.
 

endlessflood

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,951
Australia (GMT+10)
Every editor of every news bulletin that uses that clip in their race report, for a start.
It’s not like they’re sitting at home with their VCR, recording it off the world feed though :p

They’re always going to show the race winner crossing the line, as they should. They need to show all of the good stuff in replays at the very least though. That includes stuff that happens on the last lap.
 

Dan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,702
This is a problem with the fact there's only one world feed. And the fact we have a live timing graphic - we can see where there are some good battles going on, but we're left in the hands of people who seem to only care about the top few drivers.

It actually does F1 quite a hard disservice to focus on the leaders - given the midfield is so action packed. It does make me wonder what they're going to do if the 2021 regulations are actually successful. The broadcast teams will be missing overtaking left, right and centre.
 

Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,731
Really, the FiA could do with their own broadcast team who go out to each race and provide the video feeds for everyone. The quality of coverage varies so much from country to country that even good races can end up looking boring on TV. A well trained team of directors etc who are skilled in judging what's the correct thing to show at any time would make the world of difference to a lot of races.
 

FairyEmpire

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,256
To me it's absurd that in 2019, in races where there's barely any overtaking (see this very race in Abu Dhabi) they simply fail to show exciting battles in the middle of the race and of the pack just to follow the 4th placed car lapping 1.5 second behind the car in front. Then again, this really isn't an issue F1 alone is facing. MotoGP comes to mind where they often fail to even show a replay for a crash or a ballsy pass if it wasn't in a top 10 position. Like the 99% of the race is just showing the leading pack, only going behind if something crazy happens.

Cable TVs that offer multiscreen options have better options, allowing them to follow specific cars or onboard mixes. But you shouldn't have to resort to cable TV extras or YouTube highlights to find some of the most important moments of the race.
 

Sec0nd

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
635
The direction of the races is fairly standard across the board. Show the action, show the frontrunners, etc. But there have been a few standout races where the direction resulted in a beautifully shot race, or when the director did something different.

I can remember one such a moment quite well. I can't remember which race it was, but it was of one of the Ferrari's that dropped to last on the grid. Instead of showing the overtakes as usual, the director kept showing the first person angle from the nose as the Ferrari was inching towards the car in front. Every time, and with quite long takes. It gave the whole thing a Jaws like sensation.

That moment made em realize there are so many interesting ways to show the action on track. It was very inspiring.
 

ryodi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
617
The TV direction has been awful in F1 this season. Cutting to the crowd as soon as Hamilton passed Bottas so we missed Bottas retaking the position at Silverstone was the worst example. You’d hope it would get better next season but Liberty love crowd shots or cutting to women in the pit garage instead of concentrating on what’s happening on track.
 

DBT85

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,545
Really, the FiA could do with their own broadcast team who go out to each race and provide the video feeds for everyone. The quality of coverage varies so much from country to country that even good races can end up looking boring on TV. A well trained team of directors etc who are skilled in judging what's the correct thing to show at any time would make the world of difference to a lot of races.
The world feed is done by one team irrc.

Back in the day each country has would do its own race which was a shit show as basically the British race was well done and a few others were OK and the rest were shit.
 

FeD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,637
The weird thing is, Liberty invested quite a lot in the Netflix doc with a lot of emphasis on the midfield teams (especially Haas). So you would've expected that they would've briefed their Race directors on following up on some of the narratives set in the doc, to help maintain the new viewers. But nope, just the frontrunners 85% of the time.
 

FairyEmpire

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,256
The weird thing is, Liberty invested quite a lot in the Netflix doc with a lot of emphasis on the midfield teams (especially Haas). So you would've expected that they would've briefed their Race directors on following up on some of the narratives set in the doc, to help maintain the new viewers. But nope, just the frontrunners 85% of the time.
It's especially noticeable because the last 139 races (!) were won by either Mercedes, Ferrari or Red Bull. Nobody else did, and you can count on one hand the races where somebody else had a legitimate chance to do so. This means that most of the time you're looking at those 3 teams, following each other with the occasional battle for 85% of the race. It's short-sighted for sure, because smaller teams not only can not fight for wins (at least some years ago you'd still have the outlier Jordan or Toro Rosso win a race), but not even the TV will bother with them anymore, which means sponsors will be less interested if they are featured less, and so on.
 

RaySpencer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,783
Also, what in the fuck is with how some of the cameras have a totally different (and wrong) colour setup? The cars almost glow on some cameras.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,734
Also, what in the fuck is with how some of the cameras have a totally different (and wrong) colour setup? The cars almost glow on some cameras.
It is very hard to color match different cameras. I'm operating under the assumption that not everything being used is the same company with the same sensor size with the same lens. You can pop in the same white balance temp into everything, but you're not guaranteed to get identical colors.
 

RaySpencer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,783
It is very hard to color match different cameras. I'm operating under the assumption that not everything being used is the same company with the same sensor size with the same lens. You can pop in the same white balance temp into everything, but you're not guaranteed to get identical colors.
Doesn't have to be identical, just make it look like real life. Haha.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,734
Doesn't have to be identical, just make it look like real life. Haha.
Assuming they have the time to do a white balance check the added warmth might actually be intentional. Making things look like real life could actually be just boring looking. I hear complaints about manufacturer color science all of the time and people tends to like things too warm and/or over saturated. You see it in portraits all of the time on social media. People make these white people pretty much orange and get tons of likes on FaceBook when color wise it's actually horrendous looking.
 

chuckddd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,746
Time to go in the way back machine!

Forgot to post my predictions! Here they are.

Expecting a really close season up and down the lineup. The mid-field is basically impossible to predict.

WCC

Ferrari - Leclerc is able to score enough points to make this happen, beating Bottas regularly and Hamilton a few times. I think this is their year with new leadership that should be focused on keeping the upgrades coming properly through the season.
Mercedes - They'll gain late, as always, but it won't be enough. It'll be close, though.
Red Bull - As usual, I'd expect them to start the year on the back foot and then be monstrous with some upgrades. Don't think they'll get the power with Honda that they want, but the reliability will be on par with what they've gotten the last couple of years.
Renault - They've refocused and have a number one driver to help lead them for a few years.
McLaren - Yeah, I said it. Completely removing the driver pairing of 'cursed and worst' and being able to implement a new chassis which will remove the fundamental flaws from last year's car will work wonders for this team.
Haas - Quick and steady. Their drivers are good but not great and good but not great results they will get.
Alfa Romeo - Raikkonen will help a ton all around, from driving to car setup. But Giovinazzi is a big question mark.
Toro Rosso - They'll have some great results, but the drivers aren't good and they'll be testing engines a lot.
Racing . - I believe that this may be the biggest question mark on the grid. I think Stroll is putting some extra cash into the team, but it's going to take a bit to come together.
Team ERA Racing - I was against bringing in the dog from that Chemical Brothers music video to be lead driver. Sure, she has prosthetic arms but how the heck is she supposed to push the pedals?
Williams - *sigh*

WDC

Sebastian Vettel - Going to be close and will test his nerve at times. Will also be pushed by his team mate far harder than recent years.
Lewis Hamilton - He's going to be pissed.
Charles Leclerc - "Charles, it's James."
Ferrari needs to just go ahead and cheat all year, next year. Let the FIA catch them. Bastards screwed up my predictions!

Feel pretty good about about calling a McLaren resurgence, but that midfield was basically impossible to foresee. No one knew Haas was going to go backwards!
 

RaySpencer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,783
Assuming they have the time to do a white balance check the added warmth might actually be intentional. Making things look like real life could actually be just boring looking. I hear complaints about manufacturer color science all of the time and people tends to like things too warm and/or over saturated. You see it in portraits all of the time on social media. People make these white people pretty much orange and get tons of likes on FaceBook when color wise it's actually horrendous looking.
Yeah, sure. But when there is 30 cameras on track, and they all generally look the exact same, except maybe 2 that are set extra vibrant, it's weird, inconsistent, and feels weirdly unprofessional.

I'm trying to find examples, but it's hard to find.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,734
Yeah, sure. But when there is 30 cameras on track, and they all generally look the exact same, except maybe 2 that are set extra vibrant, it's weird, inconsistent, and feels weirdly unprofessional.

I'm trying to find examples, but it's hard to find.
Depending on the exact consistency it's probably something they never got around to checking or it's how they wanted that camera to look, probably track specific, might be how the camera sensor took the image and the car was sun blasted and created that effect.
 

RaySpencer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,783
Depending on the exact consistency it's probably something they never got around to checking or it's how they wanted that camera to look, probably track specific, might be how the camera sensor took the image and the car was sun blasted and created that effect.
Honestly, I'm talking about pretty slight differences, but it always jumps out at me. It makes me wonder how they don't fix it, when everything else seems to be so consistent.

This is how the RedBull looks on 99% of the cameras around all the circuits around the world at different times of day:



But then this is how it looks on maybe 1 or 2 cameras on just about every circuit:




Its not massive, but there is a colour difference, a vibrancy difference. Some tracks it seems worse too, where the red on the side glows just a little bit more.

It's super minor, but it always strikes me as weird.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,734
Honestly, I'm talking about pretty slight differences, but it always jumps out at me. It makes me wonder how they don't fix it, when everything else seems to be so consistent.

This is how the RedBull looks on 99% of the cameras around all the circuits around the world at different times of day:



But then this is how it looks on maybe 1 or 2 cameras on just about every circuit:




Its not massive, but there is a colour difference, a vibrancy difference. Some tracks it seems worse too, where the red on the side glows just a little bit more.

It's super minor, but it always strikes me as weird.
If the top one is from a broadcast camera and the other is from a bollard cam that can easily explain it. No camera takes in information the same way, the bottom one even looks like it's being shot at a lower rez or at a different visual fidelity than what's on top of it. I can't even match my A7RII to my A7RIII for example.
The Ferrari was a different colour red/orange in each camera shot.
I don't think Ferrari picks their livery based on if FOM can white balance to it. Color correction is finicky across multiple cameras.
 

RaySpencer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,783
If the top one is from a broadcast camera and the other is from a bollard cam that can easily explain it. No camera takes in information the same way, the bottom one even looks like it's being shot at a lower rez or at a different visual fidelity than what's on top of it. I can't even match my A7RII to my A7RIII for example.

I don't think Ferrari picks their livery based on if FOM can white balance to it. Color correction is finicky across multiple cameras.
Interesting. I will have to try to pay attention to this more next season. Is there a way you can tell it's a bollard camera?

I'm surprised they can't make the camera match more closely, when even the cameras built into the cars match much more closely.

Thank you for providing an explanation though, I appreciate it!
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,734
Interesting. I will have to try to pay attention to this more next season. Is there a way you can tell it's a bollard camera?

I'm surprised they can't make the camera match more closely, when even the cameras built into the cars match much more closely.

Thank you for providing an explanation though, I appreciate it!
I was looking at the camera angle and the amount of artifacting that was going on in the screen shot, it looks highly compressed so I highly doubt that's coming out at the same bit rate that the broadcast camera's using. A lot can be at play with stuff. A screen grab from a video on your phone and a screen grab from a cinema camera wouldn't exactly be the same size. This doesn't exactly explain why the red in the livery of the bottom one is over saturated, but could explain what colors the camera sensors are designed to over emphasize. Some cameras just lean towards certain colors.
 
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Oct 24, 2017
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One really has to wonder how much longer Williams will be on the grid. If there ever was a sign Claire at this point is just selling driving seats to keep the team alive, it's fucking Nissany Jr. driving two half days in the tire test. What on Earth can you gain by testing if you run that shit a driver? At least, one hopes, unlike his father, he won't be complaining about too much grip on this shit Pirelli rubber.

This just brings back memories of Claire proudly declaring to her employees that Williams will never be a customer team. I wonder how many of those employees wish they were a B-team with a fighting chance right now?