FIA Formula One 2019 |OT| Oil Mining vs. Energy Drinks vs. Big Tobacco, pick your poison

endlessflood · Jul 8, 2019

Spades said:
https://drivetribe.com/p/qualified-...aign=main&utm_medium=fb&utm_source=organic_F1

No sources, but an interesting read.

This bit caught my eye:

"Ferrari making the decision to bring forward their list management plan and switch Kimi Raikonnen and Charles Leclerc."

I thought it was widely held that Kimi's announcement that he was going back to his old Sauber team took Ferrari by surprise?

Tugatrix · Jul 8, 2019

Spades said:
https://drivetribe.com/p/qualified-...aign=main&utm_medium=fb&utm_source=organic_F1

No sources, but an interesting read.

Too many dots to connect on that story, but I'll see

Deleted member 2254 · Jul 8, 2019

Spades said:
https://drivetribe.com/p/qualified-...aign=main&utm_medium=fb&utm_source=organic_F1

No sources, but an interesting read.

This feels like those creative writing exercises where you gotta reach a given conclusion by tying together whatever element you find. An unsubstantiated rumor about Vettel wanting to leave Ferrari somehow turns into leaked documents which reveal Ricciardo is coming in, odd shit about Raikkonen (who should have been sacked God knows how many years ago), or the even more hilarious suggestion that Ferrari would find a worthy substitute for their 4-times world champion in... Valtteri Bottas.

A creative article, that's for sure.

Dan Thunder · Jul 8, 2019

FairyEmpire said:
This feels like those creative writing exercises where you gotta reach a given conclusion by tying together whatever element you find. An unsubstantiated rumor about Vettel wanting to leave Ferrari somehow turns into leaked documents which reveal Ricciardo is coming in, odd shit about Raikkonen (who should have been sacked God knows how many years ago), or the even more hilarious suggestion that Ferrari would find a worthy substitute for their 4-times world champion in... Valtteri Bottas.

Yeah, I did have to look at that bit twice to make sure I hadn't just misread it!

Dr.Phibes · Jul 8, 2019

I like Wax. And getting banned for banter in an F1 thread does feel a bit weird. This ain't FootyEra.

nekkid · Jul 8, 2019

Alright, which mod is a McLaren fan?

Kiraly · Jul 8, 2019

I can't believe Lando Norris has a donation button on Twitch and thanks people on air for subscribing to him and shit lol

Astandahl · Jul 8, 2019

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/following-other-cars-bad-ever-been/4490756/

Nico Hulkenberg says trying to follow other cars now is as hard as it has ever been, despite attempts by Formula 1 chiefs to make overtaking easier

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Lulz

SMD · Jul 8, 2019

Kiraly said:
I can't believe Lando Norris has a donation button on Twitch and thanks people on air for subscribing to him and shit lol

How do you think McLaren caught up

FeD · Jul 8, 2019

FairyEmpire said:
This feels like those creative writing exercises where you gotta reach a given conclusion by tying together whatever element you find. An unsubstantiated rumor about Vettel wanting to leave Ferrari somehow turns into leaked documents which reveal Ricciardo is coming in, odd shit about Raikkonen (who should have been sacked God knows how many years ago), or the even more hilarious suggestion that Ferrari would find a worthy substitute for their 4-times world champion in... Valtteri Bottas.

A creative article, that's for sure.

If the bit about Ricciardo having a clause that allows him to leave for Mercedes or Ferrari... Abiteboul might just be the worst team boss ever if that's true. Seriously why wouldn't Ricciardo take that deal in that situation? Gets an insane salary and if a top team comes by he can just au revoir out of there.

DHC-Shannow · Jul 8, 2019

FeD said:
If the bit about Ricciardo having a clause that allows him to leave for Mercedes or Ferrari... Abiteboul might just be the worst team boss ever if that's true. Seriously why wouldn't Ricciardo take that deal in that situation? Gets an insane salary and if a top team comes by he can just au revoir out of there.

They probably had to put that in there to tempt him away from Red Bull.

FeD · Jul 8, 2019

DHC-Shannow said:
They probably had to put that in there to tempt him away from Red Bull.

It makes sense I guess from that point, but still. That kind of money and that clause when you know Bottas is on a 1-year deal.

Dan Thunder · Jul 8, 2019

FeD said:
If the bit about Ricciardo having a clause that allows him to leave for Mercedes or Ferrari... Abiteboul might just be the worst team boss ever if that's true. Seriously why wouldn't Ricciardo take that deal in that situation? Gets an insane salary and if a top team comes by he can just au revoir out of there.

DHC-Shannow said:
They probably had to put that in there to tempt him away from Red Bull.

At the time they probably thought that there was no chance of a seat coming up so it would almost have been a nice deal sweetener that they thought had no chance of coming to pass.

Dan Thunder · Jul 8, 2019

FeD said:
It makes sense I guess from that point, but still. That kind of money and that clause when you know Bottas is on a 1-year deal.

With all due respect to Bottas I don't think he's the same level as Ricciardo. He's not a top tier driver so I don't know how much benefit he would be to a team wanting to work their way upwards.

Rahvar · Jul 8, 2019

Dan Thunder said:
With all due respect to Bottas I don't think he's the same level as Ricciardo. He's not a top tier driver so I don't know how much benefit he would be to a team wanting to work their way upwards.

I think that was the point. Why give Ric so much money and that clause when you know he could replace Bottas after one season

SMD · Jul 8, 2019

Rahvar said:
I think that was the point. Why give Ric so much money and that clause when you know he could replace Bottas after one season

They were banking on closing the gap and tempting him with the number one role.

Dan Thunder · Jul 8, 2019

Rahvar said:
I think that was the point. Why give Ric so much money and that clause when you know he could replace Bottas after one season

As I said in the post above that one, Renault probably thought there was next to no chance of either Ferrari or Mercedes having a vacancy for him in 2020.

Dan Thunder · Jul 8, 2019

Ah, loveable old Bernie still talking sense!

"the British business magnate said that he would stand in front of Putin if someone had a machine gun and was prepared to shoot him.
He would do so, "because he's a good guy," Ecclestone said. "He's never done anything that isn't doing good things for people."

Rahvar · Jul 8, 2019

Dan Thunder said:
As I said in the post above that one, Renault probably thought there was next to no chance of either Ferrari or Mercedes having a vacancy for him in 2020.

But why would that be? It's not like Bottas' contract situation has been secret.

Deleted member 2254 · Jul 8, 2019

Dan Thunder said:
Ah, loveable old Bernie still talking sense!

It feels like that quote is slightly wrong. Let me rephrase it for him.

"He's never done anything that isn't doing good things for me and other rich people."

There you go.

Dan Thunder · Jul 8, 2019

Rahvar said:
But why would that be? It's not like Bottas' contract situation has been secret.

But it's been consistent. They probably think that as Mercedes turned him down for this year they wouldn't be likely to change their minds next year either.

Either way it's a bit of a foolish clause, especially given how Bottas got his place in the Mercedes team.

Tugatrix · Jul 8, 2019

Astandahl said:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/following-other-cars-bad-ever-been/4490756/

Lulz

this guy didn't get the memo last race and kept overtaking people:

Astandahl · Jul 8, 2019

Tugatrix said:
this guy didn't get the memo last race and kept overtaking people:

He did that last year as well

Tygre · Jul 8, 2019

Astandahl said:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/following-other-cars-bad-ever-been/4490756/
Lulz

But, this has very plainly and visibly not be the case.

You can argue about how good the show has been, but cars have objectively been able to follow closer, for longer, than they have been in years prior.

Now, rather than the orgy of overtaking some people want, this has mostly led to trains of cars lapping together at 1 second apart, but thats is compared to the 3 seconds apart they were forced to hang back before.

Tugatrix · Jul 8, 2019

So this guy says Gasly isn't adapting to the car demands, probably but don't discount the psychological effect of bad results

AndyD · Jul 8, 2019

Tygre said:
But, this has very plainly and visibly not be the case.

You can argue about how good the show has been, but cars have objectively been able to follow closer, for longer, than they have been in years prior.

Now, rather than the orgy of overtaking some people want, this has mostly led to trains of cars lapping together at 1 second apart, but thats is compared to the 3 seconds apart they were forced to hang back before.

I think this has also been in part due to the change to tougher tires that can withstand the punishment. But to be under 1 second for a while and not be able to pass must be maddening.

Brinksman · Jul 8, 2019

Spades said:
https://drivetribe.com/p/qualified-...aign=main&utm_medium=fb&utm_source=organic_F1

No sources, but an interesting read.

Honestly it's worth being halfway discerning about the sources we share just for newcomers' sake, because this is one of the most obviously fabricated piece of trash articles to widely circulate in a while.

As a general rule of thumb, if none of AMuS, Motor Sport Magazine, the Motorsport Network, or RaceFans are reporting on or acknowledging a story like this, it's fairly safe to assume the writer has no connections and the article is raw garbage.

AndyD · Jul 8, 2019

It certainly sounds like fantasy, but I do think retiring on a high rather than lingering in the sport has its merits. I know some top drivers love to stay forever, a la Alonso and Kimi regardless of chance of victory, but I also imagine others will want to leave and turn to family and other adventures, a la Rosberg and Button.

Deleted member 2254 · Jul 8, 2019

AndyD said:
It certainly sounds like fantasy, but I do think retiring on a high rather than lingering in the sport has its merits. I know some top drivers love to stay forever, a la Alonso and Kimi regardless of chance of victory, but I also imagine others will want to leave and turn to family and other adventures, a la Rosberg and Button.

That's true, but this could be said for anyone. Hamilton could retire at the end of this season if the rumbling in the team is that next year's car is gonna struggle. Does it sound plausible? Hardly. I yet have to see a single compelling element to support the claim Vettel could actually retire at the end of the year. Sure, he's disappointed he's not fighting for the title, he hasn't won one in 5 years and his only victory of the season was taken away by a shit FIA decision, but it's not like this is the first time he's been wronged in his career or anything.

TheRulingRing · Jul 8, 2019

Dr.Phibes said:
I like Wax. And getting banned for banter in an F1 thread does feel a bit weird. This ain't FootyEra.

Yeah I think everyone's taking this far too seriously lol, it was just a silly throwaway post (whether intentionally or not).

StopMakingSense · Jul 8, 2019

TheRulingRing said:
Yeah I think everyone's taking this far too seriously lol, it was just a silly throwaway post (whether intentionally or not).

it's intentional, he's been doing this for years. He's been directly asked by mods to source his claims over and over and has been banned for exactly this in the past.

AndyD · Jul 8, 2019

FairyEmpire said:
That's true, but this could be said for anyone. Hamilton could retire at the end of this season if the rumbling in the team is that next year's car is gonna struggle. Does it sound plausible? Hardly. I yet have to see a single compelling element to support the claim Vettel could actually retire at the end of the year. Sure, he's disappointed he's not fighting for the title, he hasn't won one in 5 years and his only victory of the season was taken away by a shit FIA decision, but it's not like this is the first time he's been wronged in his career or anything.

Oh sure. I just meant I would not be shocked if someone did this. So as a "rumor" it can be written about any of the guys in F1, except maybe Hamilton who is clearly on a winning streak.

massivekettle · Jul 8, 2019

Dan Thunder said:
With all due respect to Bottas I don't think he's the same level as Ricciardo. He's not a top tier driver so I don't know how much benefit he would be to a team wanting to work their way upwards.

For what it's worth, Bottas actually beat Ricciardo in lower formulae. And Bottas has beat Massa (in qualifying) in the same fashion Alonso did. Point is, Bottas is no slouch over 1 lap. I do agree however he tends to fade in the race.

FairyEmpire said:
Hamilton could retire at the end of this season if the rumbling in the team is that next year's car is gonna struggle

Why would next year's Mercedes struggle? 2019 regulations will carry into 2020.

chuckddd · Jul 8, 2019

massivekettle said:
Why would next year's Mercedes struggle? 2019 regulations will carry into 2020.

Because next year is Ferrari's year! Again.

Silvergun-Blue · Jul 8, 2019

StopMakingSense said:
it's intentional, he's been doing this for years. He's been directly asked by mods to source his claims over and over and has been banned for exactly this in the past.

This. It's not really "banter" when they don't engage with the community. They just turn up about once a page or so, post something ridiculous or mildly inflammatory and then disappear.

Like I said, I just filtered them out, but a week long ban is justified considering they'd been warned in the past.

endlessflood · Jul 9, 2019

FeD said:
It makes sense I guess from that point, but still. That kind of money and that clause when you know Bottas is on a 1-year deal.

If Merc wanted Ricciardo they could've already had him this year, so it was (and still is) unlikely that they'd change their mind and risk upsetting the dominance they currently enjoy.

From Renault's point of view, of course they'd make that concession if that was what it took to get Ricciardo. The chances of a Merc or Ferrari seat opening up are small, and it meant attracting not only a top talent to their team, but someone who's a fan favourite and raises the team's profile. Red Bull had offered to match the money of the Renault deal, so money wasn't going to be enough to get Ricciardo's signature. I assumed that number 1 status and team potential was their draw card, but if that clause is true then it probably played a huge role too.

nekkid · Jul 9, 2019

FairyEmpire said:
That's true, but this could be said for anyone. Hamilton could retire at the end of this season if the rumbling in the team is that next year's car is gonna struggle. Does it sound plausible? Hardly. I yet have to see a single compelling element to support the claim Vettel could actually retire at the end of the year. Sure, he's disappointed he's not fighting for the title, he hasn't won one in 5 years and his only victory of the season was taken away by a shit FIA decision, but it's not like this is the first time he's been wronged in his career or anything.

They will only just have started designing their 2020 car, and it largely goes unchanged from this year. Why exactly would they struggle?

Deleted member 2254 · Jul 9, 2019

massivekettle said:
Why would next year's Mercedes struggle? 2019 regulations will carry into 2020.

nekkid said:
They will only just have started designing their 2020 car, and it largely goes unchanged from this year. Why exactly would they struggle?

I'm not saying this is gonna happen, I'm saying that in theory even Hamilton could be retiring at the end of the year if he feels certain things. It doesn't sound any more credible or substantiated right now than Vettel quitting F1.

endlessflood · Jul 9, 2019

FairyEmpire said:
I'm not saying this is gonna happen, I'm saying that in theory even Hamilton could be retiring at the end of the year if he feels certain things. It doesn't sound any more credible or substantiated right now than Vettel quitting F1.

Well Vettel just got married, and endured the humiliation of Canada, and is not driving for a team that is dominating the sport, so their circumstances are quite different. Not that I think he's going to retire, just pointing out the obvious difference.

Spades · Jul 9, 2019

Silvergun-Blue said:
They just turn up about once a page or so, post something ridiculous or mildly inflammatory and then disappear.

Mods are going to need to ban a hell of a lot of members, then!

Dan Thunder · Jul 9, 2019

Marko says Gasly out of excuses for poor form.

massivekettle · Jul 9, 2019

nekkid said:
They will only just have started designing their 2020 car, and it largely goes unchanged from this year. Why exactly would they struggle?

Actually, the top teams started designing 2020 earlier this year - though given the continuity in regulations, they will be refining said design based on 2019's developments. If anything, the top teams are focussing on sketching out concepts for 2021 at the moment.

nekkid · Jul 9, 2019

massivekettle said:
Actually, the top teams started designing 2020 earlier this year - though given the continuity in regulations, they will be refining said design based on 2019's developments. If anything, the top teams are focussing on sketching out concepts for 2021 at the moment.

There's a few people doing stuff for 2021, but absolutely it's not their focus right now. And actually it's not until about June (the early summer timeframe) that they start putting significant resource into designing the following year's car.

Source: I work with one of the top teams, and some of the others.

PhantomFFR · Jul 9, 2019

Spades said:
Mods are going to need to ban a hell of a lot of members, then!

And the forum and readability and interactability would be much better off, if they did. That being said if someones sole motivation for posting here is not interacting with other people but just riling them up and thus derailing threads with every post they make, a permanent ban seems like a good thing to me.

Tygre · Jul 9, 2019

FairyEmpire said:
I'm not saying this is gonna happen, I'm saying that in theory even Hamilton could be retiring at the end of the year if he feels certain things. It doesn't sound any more credible or substantiated right now than Vettel quitting F1.

Vettel last won a WDC 6 years ago. He last won a race 11 months ago. He's recently married. He's being beaten by his younger, hungrier, darling of the paddock team-mate. He's clearly disillusioned with the current rules and regulations.

Hamilton is current WDC. He last won a race 2 weeks ago. He's still living his jet-setting lifestyle. He's once again trouncing his limited, unambitious, docile team-mate. The current rules and regulations are his bread and butter.

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but Vettel retiring is a million times more likely than Hamilton.

Dan Thunder · Jul 9, 2019

How Toto Wolff made Mercedes one of sport's greatest teams

Interesting read actually as you rarely get to hear anything from the management team outside of talking about the car. I like how they have a focus on not only physical but mental fitness across the team as I imagine that the burnout rate working for an F1 team can be pretty high.

Deleted member 2254 · Jul 9, 2019

Tygre said:
Vettel last won a WDC 6 years ago. He last won a race 11 months ago. He's recently married. He's being beaten by his younger, hungrier, darling of the paddock team-mate. He's clearly disillusioned with the current rules and regulations.

Hamilton is current WDC. He last won a race 2 weeks ago. He's still living his jet-setting lifestyle. He's once again trouncing his limited, unambitious, docile team-mate. The current rules and regulations are his bread and butter.

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but Vettel retiring is a million times more likely than Hamilton.

Thing is, we're making assumptions about both drivers because there is no substantiated rumor so far about Vettel retiring. I honestly don't believe in it in the slightest, even if it does happen in the next 6-24 months I'm pretty sure the person who started spreading this "rumor" just made it up. Drivers have ups and downs, and Vettel may not be in his best ever moment F1-wise, but he's still one of the best drivers on the grid sitting in one of the best cars. If he's depressed, I'd say two thirds of the grid are in a worse shape.

endlessflood · Jul 9, 2019

FairyEmpire said:
Thing is, we're making assumptions about both drivers because there is no substantiated rumor so far about Vettel retiring. I honestly don't believe in it in the slightest, even if it does happen in the next 6-24 months I'm pretty sure the person who started spreading this "rumor" just made it up. Drivers have ups and downs, and Vettel may not be in his best ever moment F1-wise, but he's still one of the best drivers on the grid sitting in one of the best cars. If he's depressed, I'd say two thirds of the grid are in a worse shape.

You don't think Ferrari would be developing a plan for it, just in case it happens? If you're a top F1 team, then the unexpected departure of your top driver is possibly the biggest risk facing your business. As that risk increases, I'm sure the planning becomes much more substantial.

Dr.Phibes · Jul 9, 2019

Tygre said:
Vettel last won a WDC 6 years ago. He last won a race 11 months ago. He's recently married. He's being beaten by his younger, hungrier, darling of the paddock team-mate. He's clearly disillusioned with the current rules and regulations.

Hamilton is current WDC. He last won a race 2 weeks ago. He's still living his jet-setting lifestyle. He's once again trouncing his limited, unambitious, docile team-mate. The current rules and regulations are his bread and butter.

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but Vettel retiring is a million times more likely than Hamilton.

He married his high school sweetheart with whom he has two kids. Why would marriage suddenly change things?

Tygre · Jul 9, 2019

Dr.Phibes said:
He married his high school sweetheart with whom he has two kids. Why would marriage suddenly change things?

It's a decent excuse if your heart's not in it any more.

FIA Formula One 2019 |OT| Oil Mining vs. Energy Drinks vs. Big Tobacco, pick your poison

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