Fighting Games Era |OT| Two-Button Dashes Are Great

Oct 25, 2017
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this logo came to me in a dream last night. decided to whip it up in photoshop:



; _ ;

lots of mvc threads on gaming side to "celebrate" the 1 year anniversary of marvel infinite. it's almost like... people care!
 

Dahbomb

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Oct 25, 2017
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Just saw Anth0ny's video...

Bruh we aren't getting MVC4. We getting Capcom All Stars at best. So just scrap that video and make a Capcom VS video instead! LMFAO!

Also it was an hour long video but most of it talked about YOUR personal roster selections (which is fine but there is more to a good game than just the roster). What about online? What about the game mechanics? 3v3 assist based like DBFZ or 2v2 Tag like BBxT? Game modes? Should they bring back Heroes and Herald? What about a Pro tour?
 
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Oct 30, 2017
899
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Just saw Anth0ny's video...

Bruh we aren't getting MVC4. We getting Capcom All Stars at best. So just scrap that video and make a Capcom VS video instead! LMFAO!

Also it was an hour long video but most of it talked about YOUR personal roster selections (which is fine but there is more to a good game than just the roster). What about online? What about the game mechanics? 3v3 assist based like DBFZ or 2v2 Tag like BBxT? Game modes? Should they bring back Heroes and Herald? What about a Pro tour?
People said the same thing after mvc3 and then infinite came out
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,599
0
Just saw Anth0ny's video...

Bruh we aren't getting MVC4. We getting Capcom All Stars at best. So just scrap that video and make a Capcom VS video instead! LMFAO!

Also it was an hour long video but most of it talked about YOUR personal roster selections (which is fine but there is more to a good game than just the roster). What about online? What about the game mechanics? 3v3 assist based like DBFZ or 2v2 Tag like BBxT? Game modes? Should they bring back Heroes and Herald? What about a Pro tour?
lol I went an hour just talking about a roster... if I went into all of those modes I would have been recording for 6 hours.

maybe i'll go into that stuff when we celebrate marvel infinite's second anniversary :)


(but briefly I'm pretty much picturing Marvel 3 with some tweaks in my head. 3v3 assist based.)
 

Dahbomb

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Oct 25, 2017
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People said the same thing after mvc3 and then infinite came out
But this time I am saying so it's gonna be true!

That said I am not discounting the existence of a MVC4 way, way into the future. I am just saying for the near future, Capcom isn't going to be dealing with Marvel but instead will be working on something they have more direct control.
 
Oct 30, 2017
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But this time I am saying so it's gonna be true!

That said I am not discounting the existence of a MVC4 way, way into the future. I am just saying for the near future, Capcom isn't going to be dealing with Marvel but instead will be working on something they have more direct control.
Yea this same sentiment was said a million times by people last go around in fact I'm pretty sure you said the same thing verbatim on the old site.

Truth is Capcom will do whatever they can get financed or help with
 
May 1, 2018
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A world where bbtag is the best of the three marvel successors was not a world I expected to live in ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's kinda sad, since possibly the biggest reason it's a better product than MvCI is because they reused a lot of assets, which people accused Capcom of doing but that doesn't really seem to be the case. Capcom could have just gone for MvC3 style again and MvCI would probably be... not universally panned, and as fun to play as it already is.

BBTAG feels so damn budget, and I stopped playing it because I was like "why am I not playing Skullgirls or UNIST." Yeah, BBTAG has interesting stuff to try. That's true of loads of fighting games.
 

Dahbomb

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Member
Oct 25, 2017
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Yea this same sentiment was said a million times by people last go around in fact I'm pretty sure you said the same thing verbatim on the old site.

Truth is Capcom will do whatever they can get financed or help with
The only thing I said before was that if they made MVC4 then there might not be X Men in them or at least far less of them. And that's exactly what ended up happening. Even now I don't discount the possibility of a MVC4 in the far future, I am just saying Capcom's next foray into the VS mechanics game probably won't be MVC. You can save this post for later and put me on blast if Capcom's next game is in fact a MVC type game and not like a Capcom VS type game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Is there a complete roster breakdown for Jojo All Star Battle? I wanted to read on quirky movesets and gimmicks while at work and I know Jojo ASB is gimmicky as fuck, but it had no tutorial and so much of the show is beyond even guessing. You either watched it or you're lost. I tried but only made it to like...the 3rd one the capcom game was made on and not even halfway through it.

Anyhow I already get the games basics.
  • l m h and an evade button. Plus a style button for stand, haman, horse or whatever
  • taunt after knockdowns to rob opponent meter
  • block before an attack to evade at cost of bar for a perfect guard sorta thing
  • style button to cancel and extend at cost of half bar
  • auto combos can be canceled with evade to extend combos
  • hit all 3 attack buttons during an attack to cancel back to neutral for a bar
And thats the gist of that. But then you got dudes collecting body parts for shit, guys who charge bullets, dudes who place objects to ricochet bullets or steer them, folks who can create puddle traps, Guys with bugs they attack with and their uses, stopping time, and god knows what else given the source material being about making up contrived scenarios where a bizarre power would only ever be useful in that situation then writing fights about it.

Seriously...is there any comprehensive roster guide I can read on? Seems like a failed experiment killed by papercuts but it may have some interesting stuff for me to pour over.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,599
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It's kinda sad, since possibly the biggest reason it's a better product than MvCI is because they reused a lot of assets, which people accused Capcom of doing but that doesn't really seem to be the case. Capcom could have just gone for MvC3 style again and MvCI would probably be... not universally panned, and as fun to play as it already is.

BBTAG feels so damn budget, and I stopped playing it because I was like "why am I not playing Skullgirls or UNIST." Yeah, BBTAG has interesting stuff to try. That's true of loads of fighting games.
There's a way to reuse assets properly.

Look at Marvel Infinite and look at Smash Ultimate. Both recycle assets, one got SHIT on for it and the other everyone is hyped for and it's probably gonna sell 15 million copies.

It's all about the way it's presented.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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Jojo ASB

* Easy to play, but to the point the autocombo removed any motivation to be creative in combos
* unbalanced at the system level. Obviously made by people who loved the Capcom games but had no experience in making fighting game themselves. Each patch brought more problems, fixing superficial problems without addressing the core design issues.
* Online has always been deader than dead, and the CPU is little more than a punching bag, so if you don't have someone to play against or you don't have love for the original series, the game is worthless.
* THIRTY FPS
* Many moves are wonky, have bad hitboxes/hurtboxes, or are just there to reference a specific panel from the manga but have absolutely no use.
* Many characters have no game plan and are amazingly dull to play. Many characters are very similar game-play wise, even though they look totally different and required a lot of work (a sort of reverse Ryu/Ken paradigm)
* Some characters have extremely exploitable weaknesses, such as "no anti air of any sort" (except if you use the broken Just Defense system).
* Jumps are broken as well, and are often a risk-free way to avoid ground attacks. Almost no jumping/landing lag.
* THIRTY
* FPS


* could have evolved into a great game if there had been a sequel done with these assets by a team competent in fighting games. Unfortunately, the sequel changed genre and made everything worse. The best case scenario would be to fusion the fantastic assets with Pokkén's system, and give the result to a competent fighting game developer to balance. Also, burn CC2's CEO at the stake. Is it too much to ask?

Controls
* 3 attack buttons, weak=>medium=>strong, chain from weak to strong.
* Press weak repeatedly to do an automatic combo. Gives less gauge than if you had done it yourself.
* Press 2 attack buttons to throw (or the shortcut button)
* Press all 3 attack button to Roman Cancel.
* X is the side step button. X moves away from the screen, down+X moves towards the screen.
* There's a guard gauge and guard crash.
* Just Defense depletes your guard gauge and does an invinsible side step from which you can punish almost anything. This is the most broken part of the game, since you just have to alternate back and down-back quickly to avoid almost everything.
* When the opponent is down, press the provocation button to deplete their special gauge (costs you the opportunity to pursue/pressure)
* 2 types of supers, one uses 1 gauge, one uses all 3. Many supers are just there to adapt the manga and have no use.
* Stages have some gimmick (think Smash Bros) and some situation finish if you kill certain characters with certain moves at certain angles (think DBF).
* down=>up for high jump.
*After a certain amount of life has been lost, characters enter a special mode where they either get super gauge automatically, get super armor on some moves, etc.

Styles
* Hamon characters (Joseph, Jonathan, Old Joseph, Caesar, Lisalisa, Zeppeli): press R1 to charge your super gauge. Can use the gauge to strengthen themselves, or EX moves? I can't remember.
* Vampire (Dio, DIO, Vanilla Ice): have moves that can absorb life or super gauge from the opponent. Can replenish some of their lost HP. Take extra damage from Hamon move I think???
* Pillar men (Wamuu, Kars, Esidisi): R1 makes them enter a strengthen mode that depletes the super gauge. Press R1 again to stop it. While in this mode, you can use your level 1 super even if you have less than a full gauge. Same as Vampire, can replenish lost HP, weak to hamon (not sure).
* Horse (Johnny, Gyro): R1 to call your horse/get down from your horse. On your horse, you can't get thrown, can't do Just Defense, can't replenish guard gauge.
* Baoh: Gets Phenomenon levels as he gets hit, up to lv3. It gets him to replenish his life.
* Stand (everyone else, plus DIO and Vanilla Ice): R1 to call your stand on or off. Stands have various benefits including larger range, but slower movement. The Stand gets cancelled if you're thrown. Vanilla Ice and Otoishi have a power gauge that makes them weaker when the gauge is empty. While the stand is attacking, press R1 to gain control of your human character and have them attack separately from the stand. If your stand if off, your character is attacking and you press R1, you can cancel what you do (depending on the move) and have the stand summoned instantly. Honestly, the game is not complex enough to require changing on/off often. Almost all characters only have one mode in which they're efficient. The system has none of the particularities the Capcom game had.
* Mummy: Johnny, Gyro and Valentine can drop and get pieces of the holy mummy (press down on the piece to grab it). You get stronger the more you have. You lose them when you're down.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,106
0
Jojo ASB

* Easy to play, but to the point the autocombo removed any motivation to be creative in combos
* unbalanced at the system level. Obviously made by people who loved the Capcom games but had no experience in making fighting game themselves. Each patch brought more problems, fixing superficial problems without addressing the core design issues.
* Online has always been deader than dead, and the CPU is little more than a punching bag, so if you don't have someone to play against or you don't have love for the original series, the game is worthless.
* THIRTY FPS
* Many moves are wonky, have bad hitboxes/hurtboxes, or are just there to reference a specific panel from the manga but have absolutely no use.
* Many characters have no game plan and are amazingly dull to play. Many characters are very similar game-play wise, even though they look totally different and required a lot of work (a sort of reverse Ryu/Ken paradigm)
* Some characters have extremely exploitable weaknesses, such as "no anti air of any sort" (except if you use the broken Just Defense system).
* Jumps are broken as well, and are often a risk-free way to avoid ground attacks. Almost no jumping/landing lag.
* THIRTY
* FPS


* could have evolved into a great game if there had been a sequel done with these assets by a team competent in fighting games. Unfortunately, the sequel changed genre and made everything worse. The best case scenario would be to fusion the fantastic assets with Pokkén's system, and give the result to a competent fighting game developer to balance. Also, burn CC2's CEO at the stake. Is it too much to ask?

Controls
* 3 attack buttons, weak=>medium=>strong, chain from weak to strong.
* Press weak repeatedly to do an automatic combo. Gives less gauge than if you had done it yourself.
* Press 2 attack buttons to throw (or the shortcut button)
* Press all 3 attack button to Roman Cancel.
* X is the side step button. X moves away from the screen, down+X moves towards the screen.
* There's a guard gauge and guard crash.
* Just Defense depletes your guard gauge and does an invinsible side step from which you can punish almost anything. This is the most broken part of the game, since you just have to alternate back and down-back quickly to avoid almost everything.
* When the opponent is down, press the provocation button to deplete their special gauge (costs you the opportunity to pursue/pressure)
* 2 types of supers, one uses 1 gauge, one uses all 3. Many supers are just there to adapt the manga and have no use.
* Stages have some gimmick (think Smash Bros) and some situation finish if you kill certain characters with certain moves at certain angles (think DBF).
* down=>up for high jump.
*After a certain amount of life has been lost, characters enter a special mode where they either get super gauge automatically, get super armor on some moves, etc.

Styles
* Hamon characters (Joseph, Jonathan, Old Joseph, Caesar, Lisalisa, Zeppeli): press R1 to charge your super gauge. Can use the gauge to strengthen themselves, or EX moves? I can't remember.
* Vampire (Dio, DIO, Vanilla Ice): have moves that can absorb life or super gauge from the opponent. Can replenish some of their lost HP. Take extra damage from Hamon move I think???
* Pillar men (Wamuu, Kars, Esidisi): R1 makes them enter a strengthen mode that depletes the super gauge. Press R1 again to stop it. While in this mode, you can use your level 1 super even if you have less than a full gauge. Same as Vampire, can replenish lost HP, weak to hamon (not sure).
* Horse (Johnny, Gyro): R1 to call your horse/get down from your horse. On your horse, you can't get thrown, can't do Just Defense, can't replenish guard gauge.
* Baoh: Gets Phenomenon levels as he gets hit, up to lv3. It gets him to replenish his life.
* Stand (everyone else, plus DIO and Vanilla Ice): R1 to call your stand on or off. Stands have various benefits including larger range, but slower movement. The Stand gets cancelled if you're thrown. Vanilla Ice and Otoishi have a power gauge that makes them weaker when the gauge is empty. While the stand is attacking, press R1 to gain control of your human character and have them attack separately from the stand. If your stand if off, your character is attacking and you press R1, you can cancel what you do (depending on the move) and have the stand summoned instantly. Honestly, the game is not complex enough to require changing on/off often. Almost all characters only have one mode in which they're efficient. The system has none of the particularities the Capcom game had.
* Mummy: Johnny, Gyro and Valentine can drop and get pieces of the holy mummy (press down on the piece to grab it). You get stronger the more you have. You lose them when you're down.
This game is so weird. So aside from the controls, styles, and general history, the big thing I'm after is character mechanics. I know like Valentine has something to him from a prior post made in fighting community. Just curious about the whole roster and if theres a place to go, vid series, or doc to read on them to see what all was made into movesets. I like reading up on gimmicky stuff. Characters like MODOK, Frank West, Kaijin no Soki, Azrael, and stuff are just neat new concepts to me on how to design a character mechanic. Was hoping to read up on the ones used in this title.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Man it looks like Android 17 is the rekka concept behind Ironfist and the aerial movement behind Black Panther but done right. Slide should get him in under projectiles, has go behinds, and has a good hard counter to shit with a projectile/physical invulnerable super thats air ok. Since zoning isn't really all that damned easy to do in DBFZ I think he may just work. Plus thank god he actually has lows. Betting we can get some crazy shit goin with him and Kid Buu assist given he can chain his rekkas and mixup the high lows or even fake like Slayer and dash back then forward during them. Couple that with command jumps like Yatterman-1, command air dash left rights like Black Panther, and go behind dodges like Hurricane Polymar and I think he's a good pressure character. Hope he really did perfect some failed concepts here with Iron fist style rekka order freedom by adding in all those other toys and lows. Real talk though...he probably needs a lockdown assist like SSJ Vegeta.

My team will likely be Android 17/Base Vegeta/Android 16 if he works resulting in me dropping Piccolo finally. If it turns out hes a top tier I may be able to put Beerus back in over Android 16 to shoot for stuff. He's got neat stuff with about anyone and if I had 2 solids to backup the poor guy I'd put him in again. Love his orb combos.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,590
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This game is so weird. So aside from the controls, styles, and general history, the big thing I'm after is character mechanics. I know like Valentine has something to him from a prior post made in fighting community. Just curious about the whole roster and if theres a place to go, vid series, or doc to read on them to see what all was made into movesets. I like reading up on gimmicky stuff. Characters like MODOK, Frank West, Kaijin no Soki, Azrael, and stuff are just neat new concepts to me on how to design a character mechanic. Was hoping to read up on the ones used in this title.
There are gimmicks, but the game is so shallow that they are either broken (as in "not working as intended") or superfluous since "dash forward=>easy combo" is more effective.
Valentine is one of the worst characters in the game, since his thing is having all sorts of counters.... that are all more difficult to perform, much more risky, and give less benefits than simply blocking at the last second.
The more interesting concept, I feel, is Johnny. He's paraplegic, so he only crawls on the ground, most high attacks miss him, his movement is extremely limited, but he has access to his horse which suddenly makes him super mobile and immune to other things, plus his stand needs to level up, giving him access to more and more moves (while losing access to some moves of the lower tier?). He deserves to be in a better game. Plus, how many games let you play with a main character that's badass and has severe motor disabilities while kicking severe ass.
Iggy was interesting as a very small character, but he was better realized in the Capcom game. He's a waste of a slot in ASB.
Lisalisa has some interesting thing with her chains. She feels like.... an easy-mode KOF Angel?

Also, it's one of the games with the best black character representation. Avdol is fantastic, Esidisi is a great clown, and Pucci is one of the more elegant and threatening final bosses in a game (though he sucks as a fighting game function). For a 100% Japanese game geared to a 100% Japanese audience, that's much better than SF, Tekken or even MK.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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...Y'all do remember that Demitri from Darkstalkers has that one super right?
Midnight Bliss? Yup. For years I actually had a small gachapon statue of someone with a conch shell for their hair. Turned out I was sitting on a gachapon of capcom's Hydron character from Red Earth in the form they took when in Capcom Fighting Evolution they got hit by Midnight Bliss and turned from a tentacle monster into a girl.

Takes place around 2:27


The shit you find at conventions. A gachapon of a form of a relatively unknown character from a relatively unknown game that is only used for one frame of an animation that only happens if you get hit by a certain character's super. Not sure but mine may be an alternate color variant too.

EDIT:
LOL! It actually IS a variant!
capcom will make figures of anything female in their history said:
 
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Oct 27, 2017
1,590
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The shit you find at conventions. A gachapon of a form of a relatively unknown character from a relatively unknown game that is only used for one frame of an animation that only happens if you get hit by a certain character's super. Not sure but mine may be an alternate color variant too.
Well, to be fair, that particular Midnight Bliss was a side-reference to the Iinchô of Kujibiki Unbalance, the fictional series the characters of Genshiken were fans of, and Genshiken was extremely popular when the game was released. It's not just a little girl in bikini with a horn and a shell.

Midnight Bliss is a fascinating move, and Dimitri is a very interesting character to analyze in the masculinist/#metoo era. I need to get off my ass and write something about him some day.

Also, when we do get CvC, I want Jedah to be replaced with Midnight Bliss Jedah as an alt. I will pay lots of money for that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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31
Oman
Monday already, huh

1 Hour of Samurai Spirits/Sho(w)down 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoomsdqD8uQ

Virtua Fighter 3 matches
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yHX349fzf8

7+ Hours of Garou
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob0ovoVlLXM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuDvsgv1Kmc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYf2zQ8gWPQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQGnZrXdhRk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3n4bJJZU-4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTzpDRwhbHM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f53VTiE5wRw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thmVFK2Dhmw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJrqFKetAzM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2E4xdy_Bcw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R59UruXFBEs

90 mins. of BlazBlue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R59UruXFBEs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao_kAyEx-9I

90 mins. of Melty Blood
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og5OZbZJAno

Well, to be fair, that particular Midnight Bliss was a side-reference to the Iinchô of Kujibiki Unbalance, the fictional series the characters of Genshiken were fans of, and Genshiken was extremely popular when the game was released. It's not just a little girl in bikini with a horn and a shell.

Midnight Bliss is a fascinating move, and Dimitri is a very interesting character to analyze in the masculinist/#metoo era. I need to get off my ass and write something about him some day.

Also, when we do get CvC, I want Jedah to be replaced with Midnight Bliss Jedah as an alt. I will pay lots of money for that.
Oooooh yeah she does resemble that character.
Genshiken also had KoF XI PS2 played during an episode heh.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,106
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I am convinced this is the greatest version of Street Fighter. Nothing can convince me otherwise.
We so need a Zangief RPG in the lines of Mario RPG now lol
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,106
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I hope now people have moved on from marvel and let it go. If you think the gameplay is tied to that terrible company, well that is wrong.
Agreed. Years ago I started journeying through the devs and titles that existed and trying to explore what else was out there and my mind was blown repeatedly by the systems, movesets, and ideas that existed outside the realm of that series and publisher. So much creative and good ideas are just sitting there and I'd love to see more folks who are moving on finally get to have that moment too where they discover just how much there was outside their old circle to enjoy.Some of it is just incredible.

Also on a side note I had no idea Brawlhalla was backed by Ubisoft, had esports series and $100k prizes. Also shovel knight is apparently in both it and Rivals of Aether and guest appears in Smash making him the biggest crossover in ring out fighting lol.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,806
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This is unfortunate, I dunno how many of ya'll payed attention to this, but it was a fighting game channel a pretty good one. Super Couch Fighters

Its ending, the two hosts are going to do different stuff.