Fighting Games Era |OT| Two-Button Dashes Are Great

shaowebb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,913
You mean Goenitz?
Kyosuke in CvS2 wishes he could do that...
Thats it! My bad. For some reason I just remember hearing "Kyosuke Cuttah!" Repeatedly and it attached to my memories of Goenitz and his tornadoes. This game did not see much life in my library. I almost immediately went to other stuff. Especially after Mr Karate. I wasn't into fighties back then more than casually. I wonder what it'd be like to revisit that thing?
 

BadWolf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,478
We need to know more about the system... but Shiki doesn't feel like she belongs to a game with slow and powerful SSS-like kills.
Iroha could work if they emphasize her air movement (and they think Yunfei is too annoying to balance).
I'd love a total redesign of Mina. Something like "she survived the end of SS0 by killing Champoloo, and she carved tonfas out of his bones for REVENGE".
If they were able to adapt Nakoruru to KOFXIV then I don't see why they would have issues making Shiki/Iroha work here. Characters like Hanzo, Galford, Ukyo etc. are all pretty fast.

As for Mina's design, I really dig it. Wouldn't mind it staying the same.

Of the other new characters hopefully Yoshitora makes it in too, very cool character.
 

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,339
Thats it! My bad. For some reason I just remember hearing "Kyosuke Cuttah!" Repeatedly and it attached to my memories of Goenitz and his tornadoes.
"Koko desuka?"
(Kyosuke's projectile is "Cross Cutter").

I don't mind Mina's design, I just don't want her to remain the same. Her scenario was really cool in 0, I would hate it if it was all brushed aside as if it was a bad dream.
But I love everyone in SS, I'll be happy with anyone. Even people from Sen, some of them had really good designs and interesting ideas.
 

BadWolf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,478
NeogeoNow did an analysis of the new trailer. The game looks so good during zoom ins, especially Haohmaru's face. They nailed the style from old SamSho art.

The detail seems pretty high too, you can see the individual Kanji written on Haohmaru's sword.

A lot of interesting stuff going on gameplay wise.


Watch them add Mai too.
It would be so easy to make her fit in.

 

BadWolf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,478
Wish we would get confirmation of what control scheme they are going with and if the various movement options are back (ducking, hoping, rolling etc.) and are assigned again to D or another button.

They already had universal simplified commands for supers (QCF+CD) and fatalities (QCB+CD) in SSVS so I'm expecting either that to be back or them just making it a single button press.

Poppy face looks weird ):
Also don't remember Poppy having a red armband before?
Shame the fans aren't red for one player and white for the other, to reference Kuroko
Nice catch with timer kanji changing!
Dunno, I paused in the vid and she looked fine? And similar to previous art:

And good catch, she used to have a scarf around her neck like Galford previously.
 
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Iori Loco

Member
Nov 10, 2017
929
Poppy face looks weird ):
Also don't remember Poppy having a red armband before?
Shame the fans aren't red for one player and white for the other, to reference Kuroko
Nice catch with timer kanji changing!
One of the kanjis shown in the timer is the same as the super meter, I'm guessing it means one (or maybe only when both) of the characters has the desperation art available due to low health as the guy theorizes. You can also watch the kanji change the one on the meter when Haohmaru is using his desperation art against Galford when his health turns orange, same when Nakoruru gets Earthquake into the orange health range.
 
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ThatCrazyGuy

Member
Nov 27, 2017
828
Man, I do not like how Negan looks and animates, lol. Something looks off to me.

Been watching DOA6 streams for a few hours. I played the beta. I own DOA5. I think I've come to accept I don't like how the hits/blocks feel in DOA. Will probably pick it up on sale though, heh.

I'm super hyped for SamSho though. Love weapon fighters. Bring back Ninja Masters and Last Blade characters.
 

BadWolf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,478
Played some SSVS yesterday and when you do a bloody finish with Galford and the opponent's blood sprays over him, he looks just like in the still above with blood sprayed on his hair.

If the opponent's blood sprays over the attacker in the new SamSho mid match then perfects are going to look brutal.

One of the kanjis shown in the timer is the same as the super meter, I'm guessing it means one (or maybe only when both) of the characters has the desperation art available due to low health as the guy theorizes. You can also watch the kanji change the one on the meter when Haohmaru is using his desperation art against Galford when his health turns orange, same when Nakoruru gets Earthquake into the orange health range.
Interesting, for us this stuff is the norm but for newer players on-screen indicators like that would be really helpful.

Man, I do not like how Negan looks and animates, lol. Something looks off to me.
He's clearly low effort, which makes sense since they will likely never use him again. It's like a one time marketing thing.
 

WarRock

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,867
Wish we would get confirmation of what control scheme they are going with and if the various movement options are back (ducking, hoping, rolling etc.) and are assigned again to D or another button.
Yeah, this is something I am eager to know about. We didn't see any character doing kicks or hops in either teaser, right?

One of the kanjis shown in the timer is the same as the super meter, I'm guessing it means one (or maybe only when both) of the characters has the desperation art available due to low health as the guy theorizes. You can also watch the kanji change the one on the meter when Haohmaru is using his desperation art against Galford when his health turns orange, same when Nakoruru gets Earthquake into the orange health range.
Oh, good to know, thanks!
 

sibarraz

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
8,879
I'm scared that SamSho will come out in 3-4 months and so far we have seen so few characters, while also being implied that most of them will be regulars from the first 2 games.

I hope that the roster has at least 20-25 characters
 

shaowebb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,913
Not gonna lie. So far Power Rangers Battle for the Grid looks pretty damned fun. J Wong is helping to balance it. Even if it doesn't have budget and it shows this has promise now.
 

Neoxon

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,420
Houston, TX
With all the good things that are being said about the Victirx Pro FS (especially with regards to comfort & input delay), should I save up for that now or wait until the eventual PS5 sticks drop? I'm kinda worried that it'll be another PS3 -> PS4 situation where the PS4 sticks won't work on the PS5 without a specific driver.
 
Oct 25, 2017
629
With all the good things that are being said about the Victirx Pro FS (especially with regards to comfort & input delay), should I save up for that now or wait until the eventual PS5 sticks drop? I'm kinda worried that it'll be another PS3 -> PS4 situation where the PS4 sticks won't work on the PS5 without a specific driver.
Personally, given what we currently know, the PS5 is probably a year or two away.
It may take a while before any compatible sticks are announced for it.

Even if the Victrix isn't future-proof, it's not all doom and gloom. Brook will probably have an adapter on sale by then for PS4 -> PS5 peripherals.
Probably.
 

Neoxon

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,420
Houston, TX
Personally, given what we currently know, the PS5 is probably a year or two away.
It may take a while before any compatible sticks are announced for it.

Even if the Victrix isn't future-proof, it's not all doom and gloom. Brook will probably have an adapter on sale by then for PS4 -> PS5 peripherals.
Probably.
True, but one of the advantages of the Victrix Pro FS is that it has the lowest amount of input lag that Sony will allow (replacing the existing PCB with a Brook PCB is apparently the only way to beat it). If I get an adapter for the eventual PS5, that'll take away a big selling point for the stick.
 

shaowebb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,913
And now for something TVC and fun since there was a thread this week.

Kaijin no Soki had armor, damage, and really good supers. One was a super that put him into ONI MODE!
Rules to ONI MODE:
  • costs 3 bars. Once activated these bars drain down as a timer till there is no meter left at which point oni mode ends
  • super armor against all specials and normal attacks
  • cannot tag out cannot call assists
  • has a soul gauge now. When hitting opponents red yellow and blue orbs appear. Call your assist to collect the orbs you generate in this mode. Yellow restore health slightly, Blue restore your hyper gauge to keep you in ONI mode longer and Red orbs FILL YOUR SOUL GAUGE
  • you have a soul gauge now. When you have seven orbs you may now perform a new super powerful super that isn't even listed in the game's move list

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/48881165
 

sibarraz

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
8,879
I'm considering playing simultaneously in preparation for EVO

Smash Ultimate
SFV
UNIST
Tekken

And eventually Samurai Shodown, but I don't know how to have a training regime to fit all those games, I'm not expecting to be a top player or anything but I want to at least know how to defend myself
 

crazyfunster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,358
Thinking of getting some fan art for my Panthera since I'm headed to EVO- what sort of dimensions would I need, would 11 x 17 fit?
 

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,508
Rather than waiting for Granblue Fantasy Versus and Persona 5 Arena, I think I might just pick up BBTAG and start playing fighting games from it... With the recent EVO announcement maybe there's interest in the game and people trying it out again....

....Is that how this works?
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,894
Rather than waiting for Granblue Fantasy Versus and Persona 5 Arena, I think I might just pick up BBTAG and start playing fighting games from it... With the recent EVO announcement maybe there's interest in the game and people trying it out again....

....Is that how this works?
As someone who got the Platinum yet hasn't touched the game in months after tiring of the Team Gorby meta (along with other annoyances), I wouldn't count on that many people to still be playing it. I'm already expecting a significant drop in registration numbers compared to last year.

I don't even know if I feel like going back once they actually patch the game, but I'm not liking what I've read of the patch notes, and finally kneecapping Gordeau seems like too little too late. I've increased my focus on DBFZ instead, which will surely have lower registration numbers too yet remain more relevant and has had far less questionable changes as of its last patch (not without any issues, but still far from the typical Arc balancing that I've come to know and hate that BBTAG is about to get). DBFZ would be a better investment if you were to pick only one, but best to decide quickly if you're interested and don't have it already (the DLC character sale for the PS4 version ends in a matter of hours).
 

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,339
I read the Japanese players of BBTAG are as annoyed as we are by the patch (and the months of silence that preceded it). The vagueness of the release date compared to the arcade version is often brought up too.
The biggest issue here is that BBTAG players are younger on average than SF or Tekken players, and having a major patch and new characters being kept on hold for an arcade release sounds like the most archaic shit ever for Japanese players under 25.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,894
Learning that the Japanese players hate what's planned for the patch just as much is music to my ears (pretty sure Arc are considerably more likely to listen to them than anyone else), same for them also being annoyed by how long Arc waited to confirm the game would still be supported and now wanting to make people wait even longer for whenever the hell the arcade version is out.
 

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,339
You'd have to consider that historically, a lot of the serious japanese ArcSys players (the ones that play their games for the fighting, not for the lore) don't care about the characters at all. They have the same views of fighting games as serious KOF players: a game is just a fighting tool, and characters are just abstract elements used to win against another player. There is no character loyalty in these people
For this reason, the ArcSys balancing tradition is not as bad as it is for more general players: it just keeps thing fresh. People play different characters in GG because they need to be ready to jump ship if their current main character gets nerfed to dust and/or one of their other characters becomes top tier/top tier killer.

I'm mostly talking about the GGXX crowd (at least the part of it I was familiar with). I didn't follow competitive Blazblue or Xrd, but I would imagine the same mindset continued (though Blazblue invested a lot into the characters to attract a new generation of players, so maybe they're different?).

At the very least, the discussions on shitaraba and 5ch are among old and grumpy players. People are mostly angry about the delay for the BBTAG patch, both because "why do we have to wait even though the patch is ready" and "why didn't you do anything in the past 6 months and let the game grow so stale, this is not 2007 anymore". Character loyalists complain about their characters being nerfed or not buffed enough (and the poseurs complain about people not learning how to play the Gorby matchup, "it was not that hard" says random person on the internet), but the serious players have merely started trying to figure out who will be the new top 3 characters, without a look back.
 

shaowebb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,913
As someone who got the Platinum yet hasn't touched the game in months after tiring of the Team Gorby meta (along with other annoyances), I wouldn't count on that many people to still be playing it. I'm already expecting a significant drop in registration numbers compared to last year.

I don't even know if I feel like going back once they actually patch the game, but I'm not liking what I've read of the patch notes, and finally kneecapping Gordeau seems like too little too late. I've increased my focus on DBFZ instead, which will surely have lower registration numbers too yet remain more relevant and has had far less questionable changes as of its last patch (not without any issues, but still far from the typical Arc balancing that I've come to know and hate that BBTAG is about to get). DBFZ would be a better investment if you were to pick only one, but best to decide quickly if you're interested and don't have it already (the DLC character sale for the PS4 version ends in a matter of hours).
To be fair everyone knew at his very inclusion announcement that Gordeau was going to break the game. Guy has mad damage and full screen normals and converts anything from anywhere. Fast too. He broke unib too.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,894
To be fair everyone knew at his very inclusion announcement that Gordeau was going to break the game. Guy has mad damage and full screen normals and converts anything from anywhere. Fast too. He broke unib too.
Indeed, he did break Under Night before UNIST fixed things. The very fact that Arc didn't see what a problem he would be in BBTAG and then subsequently chose to do nothing the first time that the entire cast was rebalanced says plenty. I have absolutely no intention of going easy on them for their continued failings in properly balancing that game when the actual problems have always been staring them right in the face.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,894
You'd have to consider that historically, a lot of the serious japanese ArcSys players (the ones that play their games for the fighting, not for the lore) don't care about the characters at all. They have the same views of fighting games as serious KOF players: a game is just a fighting tool, and characters are just abstract elements used to win against another player. There is no character loyalty in these people
For this reason, the ArcSys balancing tradition is not as bad as it is for more general players: it just keeps thing fresh. People play different characters in GG because they need to be ready to jump ship if their current main character gets nerfed to dust and/or one of their other characters becomes top tier/top tier killer.

I'm mostly talking about the GGXX crowd (at least the part of it I was familiar with). I didn't follow competitive Blazblue or Xrd, but I would imagine the same mindset continued (though Blazblue invested a lot into the characters to attract a new generation of players, so maybe they're different?).

At the very least, the discussions on shitaraba and 5ch are among old and grumpy players. People are mostly angry about the delay for the BBTAG patch, both because "why do we have to wait even though the patch is ready" and "why didn't you do anything in the past 6 months and let the game grow so stale, this is not 2007 anymore". Character loyalists complain about their characters being nerfed or not buffed enough (and the poseurs complain about people not learning how to play the Gorby matchup, "it was not that hard" says random person on the internet), but the serious players have merely started trying to figure out who will be the new top 3 characters, without a look back.
I'm quite late in responding to this (had overlooked it before), but I would wager BB players being different from GG ones. For those who buy into the "functions" mentality, I would think more of them just stuck with BBCF than investing much into BBTAG, would be surprised if most of such players who did bother lingered for long after the wait. I don't pay enough attention to any specific competitive KoF players, but based on how most of them tend to pick characters between games, I'm quite willing to believe that it does apply to them (just like most competitive SFV and DBFZ players).
 

NeoChaos

Member
Oct 28, 2017
663
NorCal
Honestly, the amazing thing is how Arc managed to kill BB Tag's momentum both competitively by letting Ruby/Gordeau run amok for 9 months and counting and casually by sitting on that Arcana Heart reveal for SIX MONTHS and doing fuck-all else to keep people interested during that wait. I know early number tweets from Mr. Wizard shouldn't be read into too much, but BB Tag is probably doomed to be the lowest attended game at Evo this year and a huge part of it is ASW's fault.
 
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sandboxgod

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,608
Austin, Texas
I am not even sure DBFZ is a great choice to hop into right now… The DBFZ community thread only gets hyped when new characters are incoming and then goes back to being dead again.
DBFZ has somethings holding it back from uber greatness:
  • Lack of any sort of ragequit system. Like, all I want is to be awarded my win when the opponent decides to bounce but ASW can’t even be bothered to add even this. Something so basic, all non-anime fighters handle to some extent. This is why I have zero hype for future ASW games. I'm planning to skip them unless it's Dragonball
  • Superdash has not been tweaked at all. So unlike every other FG, this game lacks a strong neutral game (footsies). Even pros these days seem to backdash rather than 'jump' forward.
  • Character assists are one dimensional. Unlike BBTAG, Skullgirls, and MvC, character assists are locked in. There is only one assist per character and you cant change it. BBTAG is wayyyy better in this regard
  • The net code is somehow inferior to BBTAG. BBTAG, I can’t recall any match not being smooth. I can’t ever recall my inputs feeling like it got dropped.

Outside of these gripes, the game is really good. I find it healthy to play this game in short bursts. Like once a week or so. Beyond that, it gets frustrating fast and I find myself needing to take a break to play other FGs.

edit- Honestly, and this coming from a dedicated DBFZ fan, the gameplay is much better in BBTAG. But BBTAG is way less populated.
 
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Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,339
Character assists are one dimensional. Unlike BBTAG, Skullgirls, and MvC, character assists are locked in.
Can you explain what you mean by this?
I haven't played DBF, but I thought they functioned the same as MvC2/3. Did you mean Infinite?
Or do you mean the fact MvC characters had 3 assists that you could chose from before the fight allowed for some level of variation (even though most characters had 1 assist that was absurdly better than the other 2)?
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,894
I am not even sure DBFZ is a great choice to hop into right now… The DBFZ community thread only gets hyped when new characters are incoming and then goes back to being dead again.
DBFZ has somethings holding it back from uber greatness:
  • Lack of any sort of ragequit system. Like, all I want is to be awarded my win when the opponent decides to bounce but ASW can’t even be bothered to add even this. Something so basic, all non-anime fighters handle to some extent. This is why I have zero hype for future ASW games. I'm planning to skip them unless it's Dragonball
  • Superdash has not been tweaked at all. So unlike every other FG, this game lacks a strong neutral game (footsies). Even pros these days seem to backdash rather than 'jump' forward.
  • Character assists are one dimensional. Unlike BBTAG, Skullgirls, and MvC, character assists are locked in. There is only one assist per character and you cant change it. BBTAG is wayyyy better in this regard
  • The net code is somehow inferior to BBTAG. BBTAG, I can’t recall any match not being smooth. I can’t ever recall my inputs feeling like it got dropped.

Outside of these gripes, the game is really good. I find it healthy to play this game in short bursts. Like once a week or so. Beyond that, it gets frustrating fast and I find myself needing to take a break to play other FGs.

edit- Honestly, and this coming from a dedicated DBFZ fan, the gameplay is much better in BBTAG. But BBTAG is way less populated.
SFV gives nothing if someone rage quits on you, would kill for that thing DBFZ has where disconnecting at the K.O. prompt is too late. Even if Super Dash were modified, the existence of Vanish would still be counterproductive to establishing a proper neutral game. I do prefer how BBTAG handled assists in three per character depending on direction pressed during calls, though. I recall matches for BBTAG occsionally not being smooth in a delayed input kind of way when I was still playing. For as much as I shilled for BBTAG's gameplay in the past, the balance is significantly worse to me and serves to squander so many of the good ideas it has.

Overall, DBFZ has felt like one of the least frustrating fighting games to me as of late, especially when comparing its ranked to the shitshow that's SFV ranked.
Can you explain what you mean by this?
I haven't played DBF, but I thought they functioned the same as MvC2/3. Did you mean Infinite?
Or do you mean the fact MvC characters had 3 assists that you could chose from before the fight allowed for some level of variation (even though most characters had 1 assist that was absurdly better than the other 2)?
Every character in BBTAG has three assists that can be used at any given time rather than needing to pick one before the fight starts (one while calling from neutral, one while holding back, one while pressing forward). DBFZ's work like MvC3's in that everyone gets one and only one.
 
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sandboxgod

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,608
Austin, Texas
If I had to recommend a new FG to get into I'd say something like Smash Ultimate, Tekken7 (PS4), and/or SC6 (PS4) are probably the leaders.

Can you explain what you mean by this?
I haven't played DBF, but I thought they functioned the same as MvC2/3. Did you mean Infinite?
Or do you mean the fact MvC characters had 3 assists that you could chose from before the fight allowed for some level of variation (even though most characters had 1 assist that was absurdly better than the other 2)?
Yeah at least give players a choice. I personally don't care that pros will all just use the most optimal assist/character/teams they will always pick the best thing even if it's 0.5% better
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,894
As much as I've enjoyed SCVI, going too long without saying anything and being vague about when to expect new content is a problem that Project Soul have as well, not to mention how reactionary they are with patches (catered to whiny online players specifically of all people). Tekken remains entirely too obtuse for me to bother recommending it, and I'm not under the impression that T7 is any different (pretty much the only active 8WR fighter that never clicks with me, and they never explain anything). The learning curve for DoA is considerably more lenient up to DoA6 by comparison, but not many are interested in taking DoA seriously.

Can't comment on Smash, but don't remember hearing good things about Ultimate's online.
 
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