Fighting Games Era |OT| Two-Button Dashes Are Great

sibarraz

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
8,568
So, I'm in a weird debate with myself right now, I'm seriously considering dropping my arcade stick in favor of going full pad, my main logic of doing this is

1) Is a hassle to go to weeklies after work while carrying the arcade stick in a bag. I have one of those arcade stick bag that is pretty comfortable, but with it, I can't carry other things to work like lunch and other things, also, sticks are relatively heavy, and travelling with them in the public bus is uncomfortable.

2) Also, sometimes I would go to some friends house, and play games there, where probably there are more chances of finding a pad over a stick.

In the other hand, I like the feeling of playing with an stick, is cool to have the buttons lay out in a way that is easier to press multiple buttons, and also now thanks to universal boards is easier to connect your stick to practically all consoles in the world, also.

My main issue though is that some games I play better with stick and vice versa, so maybe I should just stick with both of them

Tekken and SFV got time on them and alot of people entering
Watch as you perform best in SamSho

Also

"I want the money to work for me I'm tired of working for the money"

I always think about this video, specially that line, it was eye opening for me, Sanford Kelly should work as a motivational speaker
 

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,696
Could it be the moves where you need to hold the button? I remember a simple combo with Wagner that never registered even though I did what was required, until I understood they wanted me to hold the button for a second after the quarter circle to make a stronger version of the charge.
Nah it’s the simple ones that just involves switching to a down attack and back to a standing Attack. Partly because my hand-eye coordination is shit but still the timing seems very narrow
 

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,696
I think I'm having the same problem in UNIST/GG as I had with jump cancelling in DMC.

My habit is that I would visually confirm the hit before my brain registers that I need to input the next command.

And apparently that's too slow
 

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,696
I can't seem to get my fight stick to work on steam to play UNIST. Steam recognise that I've a stick plugged in but it doesn't seem to read any of the inputs. Admittedly it's an old stick from the SFIV era but it still works on my PS4 to play GGXrd
 

WarRock

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,137
That is nuts.
They motion-captured Lewis’s movements while playing and attached sensors to the controller to map his touch and pressure points. They talked to Lewis about how he played. One early discovery was that Lewis’s controller was way too small for his hands and caused them to sweat. They also found he supported the controller with his left hand and readjusted with his right, which completely surprised Lewis, who had thought the exact opposite was true.
Oh, I know this too well.

Different kinds of textured bumps across the controller ease hand repositioning and reduce sweating by allowing airflow.
It's a fucking dryfit gamepad, man.

The off center buttons is something I've been thinking about after playing some action games and noticing my thumb sometimes naturally goes slightly too high/to the left or right to where the second attack button or whatever is.
 

ThatCrazyGuy

Member
Nov 27, 2017
634
So, I'm in a weird debate with myself right now, I'm seriously considering dropping my arcade stick in favor of going full pad, my main logic of doing this is

1) Is a hassle to go to weeklies after work while carrying the arcade stick in a bag. I have one of those arcade stick bag that is pretty comfortable, but with it, I can't carry other things to work like lunch and other things, also, sticks are relatively heavy, and travelling with them in the public bus is uncomfortable.

2) Also, sometimes I would go to some friends house, and play games there, where probably there are more chances of finding a pad over a stick.

In the other hand, I like the feeling of playing with an stick, is cool to have the buttons lay out in a way that is easier to press multiple buttons, and also now thanks to universal boards is easier to connect your stick to practically all consoles in the world, also.

My main issue though is that some games I play better with stick and vice versa, so maybe I should just stick with both of them



"I want the money to work for me I'm tired of working for the money"

I always think about this video, specially that line, it was eye opening for me, Sanford Kelly should work as a motivational speaker
I dropped stick completely when SFV came out for 2D stuff. I had already stopped for my Soul Calibur/Tekken play since after SC2/Tekken 5 days. There was a slight learning curve. And some stuff is harder on pad for my hands (like kara throws), but I deal with it.

It felt liberating not carrying that heavy ass thing around while traveling and in the venues.
 

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,696
Holy shit these 'basic' combos in UNIST and GGXrd are hard to pull off, I'm having a greater appreciation for people who could chain these things into infinite and beyond.

Using Hyde in UNIST, fortunately it doesn't seem like he has a lot of different moves I need to memorize

Hmm... What kind of stick is it? Have you installed the correct drivers? Is this the only game on PC to do this?
It's an old Madzcat SFIV tournament arcade edition that I rescued from being thrown out by a Neighbor. Steam reads it as a PS3 controller.

It's fine, I've resigned to using a pad, I've got faster button inputs in exchange for a sore thumb from motion inputs on the D-pad.
 

WarRock

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,137
Holy shit these 'basic' combos in UNIST and GGXrd are hard to pull off, I'm having a greater appreciation for people who could chain these things into infinite and beyond.
You're going to get used to it!

Fun story from a super casual player that is awful at execution:
Some years ago I decided to try and learn how to do stuff instead of just finding chains on the fly while playing with friends, for some reason jump cancel combos in GG and BB were impossible for me to pull off. And when I say "jump cancel combo" I actually mean hitting an air move after jump cancelling. Like, doing 6C, jump cancel, j.A with Ragna in BB. Literally the most basic shit.
The same with jump ins, like jumping heavy > grounded normal.

There was this big disconnect between my expectation of visual feedback to know when I was supposed to press buttons and the actual timing and audiovisual feedback of the games. At some point I just gave up, thinking my maximum execution ability besides doing magic series was doing basic SF stuff like cMK > hadouken > super hadouken in 3S.

Eventually I stopped being dumb and just gave it another chance without bad muscle memory and looking at what the games expected me to do instead of forcing them to work from what my baseless expectations and of course I can now hit all of that simple shit in any game after a couple tries at best.

Yes, it's absolutely laughable, but it happened =P
 

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,696
You're going to get used to it!

Fun story from a super casual player that is awful at execution:
Some years ago I decided to try and learn how to do stuff instead of just finding chains on the fly while playing with friends, for some reason jump cancel combos in GG and BB were impossible for me to pull off. And when I say "jump cancel combo" I actually mean hitting an air move after jump cancelling. Like, doing 6C, jump cancel, j.A with Ragna in BB. Literally the most basic shit.
The same with jump ins, like jumping heavy > grounded normal.

There was this big disconnect between my expectation of visual feedback to know when I was supposed to press buttons and the actual timing and audiovisual feedback of the games. At some point I just gave up, thinking my maximum execution ability besides doing magic series was doing basic SF stuff like cMK > hadouken > super hadouken in 3S.

Eventually I stopped being dumb and just gave it another chance without bad muscle memory and looking at what the games expected me to do instead of forcing them to work from what my baseless expectations and of course I can now hit all of that simple shit in any game after a couple tries at best.

Yes, it's absolutely laughable, but it happened =P
Same here, my problem is that I'm using visual cue for my timing (after all that's what I've been doing for all my actions games) but apparently for fighting games, inputing the command AFTER the attack animation lands is too slow OTL

But when I tried to go faster, I messed up my commands lol.

Playing on a pad kinda helps with the face buttons, but it sure hurts my thumb after awhile sliding around the D-pad =_=
 

WarRock

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,137
Same here, my problem is that I'm using visual cue for my timing (after all that's what I've been doing for all my actions games) but apparently for fighting games, inputing the command AFTER the attack animation lands is too slow OTL

But when I tried to go faster, I messed up my commands lol.
Yeah, when a combo requires wildly different timings (like doing a fast chain and then having to wait for the opponent to fall down before continuing) my consistency still gets destroyed. But I'm working on it, slowly :v
 

Disgraced

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,602
So-Cal
It's fine, I've resigned to using a pad, I've got faster button inputs in exchange for a sore thumb from motion inputs on the D-pad.
I've gotten into fighting games hard in the last ~6 mo. and as a fellow a pad player: your thumb should get used to it. I've played a bunch of Tyara (a grappler from Punch Planet) and doing tons 360s and 720s has made my thumb iron. Keep at it and you'll never lose a left-handed thumb war again.
 

klabautermann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,805
AZ, USA
Same here, my problem is that I'm using visual cue for my timing (after all that's what I've been doing for all my actions games) but apparently for fighting games, inputing the command AFTER the attack animation lands is too slow OTL

But when I tried to go faster, I messed up my commands lol.

Playing on a pad kinda helps with the face buttons, but it sure hurts my thumb after awhile sliding around the D-pad =_=
You'll basically want to get in the habit of inputting the next command right when the attack lands. It's got a rhythm and it's gonna take some practice to get used to it, but it gets easier with practice. You'll get to the point where you can do it with your eyes closed if you keep at it.
 

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,696
I can say for certain that my current skill level at UNIST is that of an arcade AI.

Which is surprisingly easier than a Versus AI.

I still can't pull off special moves reliably in the heat of battle though, the shoryuken type being the hardest.
 

Naijaboy

The Fallen
Mar 13, 2018
1,888
DBFZ won't even have their top 8 on Sunday in Texas Showdown. It's crazy how much the popularity has waned.
 

sibarraz

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
8,568
DBFZ won't even have their top 8 on Sunday in Texas Showdown. It's crazy how much the popularity has waned.
I honestly think that the game isn't really that good, is marvel without all the craziness and "so broken but fun" shit that the vs games had.

Also, from my experience, all the characters felt very samey, I know that there are differences, but in the end I never truly felt it. Sucks, because with proper changes the game could have achieved a more healthy e-sports scene
 

sayuri

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,607
DBFZ was carried by Dragon Ball.
If it wasn't a DB game, I think the game would not be that popular in the beginning.
 

Neo0mj

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,446
DBFZ won't even have their top 8 on Sunday in Texas Showdown. It's crazy how much the popularity has waned.
Game was too homogeneous when it came to character moveset and ways to play and balance patches were too far in-between and a lot of the time either were lacking or made no sense.

DBFZ was carried by Dragon Ball.
If it wasn't a DB game, I think the game would not be that popular in the beginning.
Yeah but if it wasn't a DBZ game they'd have probably been more willing to make it more complex and take risks with the gameplay.
 

enzo_gt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,029
Also, from my experience, all the characters felt very samey, I know that there are differences, but in the end I never truly felt it. Sucks, because with proper changes the game could have achieved a more healthy e-sports scene
Game was too homogeneous when it came to character moveset and ways to play and balance patches were too far in-between and a lot of the time either were lacking or made no sense.
Y'all telling me the game that was supposed to replace Marvel was MK underneath this whole time?
 

Sanox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,751
DBFZ is a fun game but with a lot of wasted potential.

Its Dragon Ball it would have been successful even if they didn’t go that far with simplifying things, it would have still been successful if Super Dash was a cool mechanic similiar to Arcana Heart's Homing Dash instead of being this 1 button homing attack. In fact even for casual players having Super Dash be much more of a movement tool than a simple attack might have been something they enjoyed more as well.


This is a shame as Akuma and Geese translated really well into Tekken and Eliza is really fun as well.
 
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klabautermann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,805
AZ, USA
Yeah, DBFZ just feels way too... sterile. I'm glad the last balance patch they had shook some stuff up for once, though. The characters being same-y really doesn't help. I get it, it's a team fighter and they want to make it simple to jump in but it really needs more variety. The radio silence between the end of season 1 and the start of season 2 I'm sure did not help with retention either.

I don't think it's a bad game, but it certainly didn't keep me playing. UNIST has basically been the only 2D fighter I've been playing lately. I miss and don't miss SFV. Been dabbling in Tekken 7 and DOA6 lately and really enjoying both of those.
 

ibrahima

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,144

This is a shame as Akuma and Geese translated really well into Tekken and Eliza is really fun as well.
I think guest characters from other styles of game is still a fair bet, it's more just a question of whether they push for more DLC or a new numbered release.

I would say that they're wise to push away from a full on crossover title and steer towards guest characters since it enables them to focus on a wider range of characters rather than being stuck with a single franchise.

As a side note I would assume that the cost to license a single character is less than doing a full crossover, but I guess this is something that could really vary.
 

LightBang

Member
Mar 16, 2018
437
DBFZ won't even have their top 8 on Sunday in Texas Showdown. It's crazy how much the popularity has waned.
Looking at smash.gg, only MK, SF and Tekken have more participants than DBFZ. If DBFZ isn't on Sunday over other games it's certainly not due to participation.

I've been accompanying the game closely and the game is usually 4th in numbers behind SF, Tekken and Ultimate(MK is too recent). There's been a moderate drop after the World Tour ended, once they finally give us details I expect a return to previous form.
 

Host Samurai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,986
FighterZ is probably my GOAT fighting game along with SFA3 and 3S, but it definitely needs some more diversity in the roster, which is a shame because there are lots to pick from to make the game more diverse. I hope FighterZ 2 gives us some more interesting options in terms of character depth. I’ll SMH if Raditz is the final DLC character.