Final Fantasy VII Remake General Discussion Thread [Open Spoilers for Original FFVII ONLY please!]

Should this thread contain open spoilers?

  • Yes

    Votes: 1,405 73.4%
  • No

    Votes: 508 26.6%

  • Total voters
    1,913

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
3,237
Probably be like a Kingdom Hearts game as far as exploring goes. Although I could see it being more like XIII too, due to how focused they have been on the combat in 100% of their trailers
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
1,761
There's an interesting thread on the FFVIIRemake subreddit about the changes you wouldn't mind seeing in the Remake, and I thought it would be an interesting question to pose here! I'll copy and paste my answer from there.

I wouldn't mind moving the introduction of a few characters until later in the story in order to better space out the games in the series. Maybe Vincent and Yuffie, considering that they are the optional ones and they'll need to find a place to put them into the story proper. So, for example, assuming a trilogy, the character introductions may line-up as such:

Part 1: Cloud, Tifa, Barret, Aerith, Red XIII
Part 2: Cait Sith, Cid
Part 3: Yuffie, Vincent

As a general rule, I'm open to most changes as long as they're well executed. I'm trying to view this more as "The New Final Fantasy game using VII as a basis" rather than as something that needs to be a pure replica of VII.
 

Philippo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,861
Milan, Italy
There's an interesting thread on the FFVIIRemake subreddit about the changes you wouldn't mind seeing in the Remake, and I thought it would be an interesting question to pose here! I'll copy and paste my answer from there.

I wouldn't mind moving the introduction of a few characters until later in the story in order to better space out the games in the series. Maybe Vincent and Yuffie, considering that they are the optional ones and they'll need to find a place to put them into the story proper. So, for example, assuming a trilogy, the character introductions may line-up as such:

Part 1: Cloud, Tifa, Barret, Aerith, Red XIII
Part 2: Cait Sith, Cid
Part 3: Yuffie, Vincent

As a general rule, I'm open to most changes as long as they're well executed. I'm trying to view this more as "The New Final Fantasy game using VII as a basis" rather than as something that needs to be a pure replica of VII.
This is what i proposed a few days ago, possibly in this same thread lol

But yeah i agree with this proposal, it gives players new character to try in both new games.

That said i don't think they'll keep Yuffie for Part 3, she is super popular, and not having her hugging Cloud and crying over Aerith's body is a waste in touching moments :(
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
1,761
This is what i proposed a few days ago, possibly in this same thread lol

But yeah i agree with this proposal, it gives players new character to try in both new games.

That said i don't think they'll keep Yuffie for Part 3, she is super popular, and not having her hugging Cloud and crying over Aerith's body is a waste in touching moments :(
Yeah. That would definitely be something I would miss, but I do think those are the only ones you can move around without requiring large rewrites. Unless maybe Cait Sith doesn't become a full fledged party member when he's first introduced?

Honestly, the only thing I wouldn't want them to change at all is
Aerith's death and specifically the inability to revive her.
Yeah I know we don't spoiler tag OG spoilers in this but just on the off chance anyone is going into this completely blind.
 

LordofPwn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,989
do we know if we can swap part members in this game or is our party going to be based on the story? I know we can swap between party members but will there be a moment where we have to decide who's actually in it or not?
 

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
2,999
do we know if we can swap part members in this game or is our party going to be based on the story? I know we can swap between party members but will there be a moment where we have to decide who's actually in it or not?
We don't know yet I think.

Given how linear this game is supposed to be, I don't think there'll be many moments where we can choose our party members. Maybe at Shinra HQ? You don't really get to have more than three characters until then, and I don't think they'd change it so that, say, Barret meets Aerith earlier.

The overworld and the party management will be the game sellers for the sequels I guess.
 

Prismatico

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,621
I wouldn't mind moving the introduction of a few characters until later in the story in order to better space out the games in the series. Maybe Vincent and Yuffie,
I was thinking the same, as it also gives Wutai a chance to shine in the later game as a new location if Part 2 is indeed about the whole journey to finding Sephiroth.
 

Eylos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,884
wutai by the new dialogue seems to get important now to the main plot, and there's some possible ties with the bigger avalanche organization, i'm really curious about what they will do with avalanche i hope one of the leader is Elfé but a different background/story her design is cool

 

TheJollyCorner

The Fallen
Nov 7, 2017
3,491
If they really want to use him, just change his face IMO
Guess it depends on the original contract. From what I remember (keep in mind, I have absolutely no receipts on this) any use of the character of Genesis by S-E would result in residuals to Gackt. Even removing Genesis from future copies of CC and DoC would result in residuals to Gackt.

Take that with a huge grain of salt, but I recall reading about that like ten years ago and it sounded like a horrible contract for S-E that truly benefited the ‘celebrity’ far more than the intellectual property.
 

LordofPwn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,989
We don't know yet I think.

Given how linear this game is supposed to be, I don't think there'll be many moments where we can choose our party members. Maybe at Shinra HQ? You don't really get to have more than three characters until then, and I don't think they'd change it so that, say, Barret meets Aerith earlier.

The overworld and the party management will be the game sellers for the sequels I guess.
in the original we couldn't change the party till we got red right?
 

KvotheStrife

Member
May 29, 2018
51
I think we will have all playable characters by the end of part 2, part 3 will only be the end game and we can explore all the world on the highwind.
 

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
2,999
in the original we couldn't change the party till we got red right?
It's been ages since I last played it, but yeah, I think it's only there when you can choose party members (against the elevator boss maybe?). But yeah, it's after Midgar, when the party decides to split up and use a phone, when this ability is properly introduced.

Speaking of which, I wonder if they'll do something cool with the phone in the second game.
 

Lastdancer

Member
Nov 1, 2017
232
I am having a hard time thinking about things other than this remake... working helps, but then I come home and THE WAIT BEGINS ANEW.
 
OP
OP
ArkhamFantasy

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,106
Unless they make major changes to the sequence of events, this they'll likely have all characters+nearly all locations done in the second game (assuming its a trilogy).

Disc 2&3 really is mostly backtracking.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
5,242
Unless they make major changes to the sequence of events, this they'll likely have all characters+nearly all locations done in the second game (assuming its a trilogy).

Disc 2&3 really is mostly backtracking.
I've said this before but I really do not think this is going to happen. Part 2 going up to the Northern Crater and therefore including every single location, character, etc is just not feasible. It's not about the length of the game or about the best way to tell the story/adhere to structure - it's about the sheer number of assets that would need to be created. Not just open world (or multiple open areas) stuff - I think procedural generation might actually make that part surprisingly easy - but all the highly detailed and very different locations we'll be travelling to.
 

ZeroDS

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
1,740
Japan
One of the most exciting parts of this remake is seeing what happens with the rest of the parts. Really interested in seeing how they do it
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
5,242
One of the most exciting parts of this remake is seeing what happens with the rest of the parts. Really interested in seeing how they do it
Based on asset production I feel there needs to be 3 more parts. Part 2 ending at Nibelheim's discovery (I guess they would need to make Cosmo Canyon the big climax somehow), Part 3 ending at the Northern Crater, and Part 4 ending at... well, the end. 😁
 

Cannon_Fodder

Member
Oct 27, 2017
125
Based on asset production I feel there needs to be 3 more parts. Part 2 ending at Nibelheim's discovery (I guess they would need to make Cosmo Canyon the big climax somehow), Part 3 ending at the Northern Crater, and Part 4 ending at... well, the end. 😁
It's interesting, because I think you have a point in that, from a dev perspective, 3 more parts seems like a good fit. From a marketing/customer perspective though, 4 parts total seems too long. I think it's hard for most game series to have 4 or more games, and doing that for a remake of an old game seems like a tough sell. It should be interesting to see how they handle it.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
5,242
It's interesting, because I think you have a point in that, from a dev perspective, 3 more parts seems like a good fit. From a marketing/customer perspective though, 4 parts total seems too long. I think it's hard for most game series to have 4 or more games, and doing that for a remake of an old game seems like a tough sell. It should be interesting to see how they handle it.
I agree that 3 parts total would be better from a storytelling and marketing perspective. It's just that... well, it's not possible, at least not without a huge cut-down in quality and content, or a R*-level budget and development time for Part 2, and I'm not even sure if that would be enough. When I sit and think about the locations between Kalm and the Northern Crater - really ruminate on them - the scope is fucking mind-boggling. Like, FFXV has only 2 major towns - Lestallum and Altissia - and a Part 2 just going up to Nibelheim would equal that, as I'm quite sure Junon and the Gold Saucer would each be just as large and detailed.
 
Oct 27, 2017
57
Seattle, WA
It's been ages since I last played it, but yeah, I think it's only there when you can choose party members (against the elevator boss maybe?). But yeah, it's after Midgar, when the party decides to split up and use a phone, when this ability is properly introduced.

Speaking of which, I wonder if they'll do something cool with the phone in the second game.
Tifa waits for Cloud at Shinra HQ, so you don't quite get a choice in how the party splits before the elevator boss, but they let you rearrange materia. You do get a party choice after meeting Red XIII for that experiment boss.

You get the PHS (?) after the Kalm flashback and before hitting the Chocobo Farm.

So all in all, part 1 would be pretty much the same as the OG without party switching.
 

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
2,999
Tifa waits for Cloud at Shinra HQ, so you don't quite get a choice in how the party splits before the elevator boss, but they let you rearrange materia. You do get a party choice after meeting Red XIII for that experiment boss.

You get the PHS (?) after the Kalm flashback and before hitting the Chocobo Farm.

So all in all, part 1 would be pretty much the same as the OG without party switching.
Ah, right, mixed some parts!

But yeah, I wouldn't expect this to deviate too much from the original when it comes to Midgar's linearity and scenario structure.

The pool of playable characters seems to be 4 (with Red XIII being a guest member if that Jenova fight in the trailer is to be taken into account). So, unless they really shake some things up, the majority of the game will be spent with 3 party members max at a given time and place (there being two defined blocks with Cloud being the link: Barret and/or Tifa, and Aerith and/or Tifa).

Although it seems like Cloud won't be always the POV here, as we've seen Barret and Tifa on their own (in some kind of underground facility and infiltrating Shinra HQ, respectively). Maybe Aerith too; she's told by Cloud to leave in the sewers in the E3 trailer after all.
 

Cannon_Fodder

Member
Oct 27, 2017
125
I agree that 3 parts total would be better from a storytelling and marketing perspective. It's just that... well, it's not possible, at least not without a huge cut-down in quality and content, or a R*-level budget and development time for Part 2, and I'm not even sure if that would be enough. When I sit and think about the locations between Kalm and the Northern Crater - really ruminate on them - the scope is fucking mind-boggling. Like, FFXV has only 2 major towns - Lestallum and Altissia - and a Part 2 just going up to Nibelheim would equal that, as I'm quite sure Junon and the Gold Saucer would each be just as large and detailed.
Agreed. At the same time though, it seems impossible to keep general audiences excited and interested in buying another part of the FF7 saga years from now when there are tons of other exciting games to play instead. I don't think the FF7 fanbase is big enough to drive sales by itself, and when the remake is no longer a new exciting thing I don't know how much interest it will generate among general audiences.

My point is that I think SE is in a tight spot, so I'm curious how they work their way out of it.
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
1,761
I don't think they'll go past three parts. If they have to cut or streamline stuff, they will, for better or worse. But I think/hope we'll be surprised at how much they're able to do in three.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
5,242
Agreed. At the same time though, it seems impossible to keep general audiences excited and interested in buying another part of the FF7 saga years from now when there are tons of other exciting games to play instead. I don't think the FF7 fanbase is big enough to drive sales by itself, and when the remake is no longer a new exciting thing I don't know how much interest it will generate among general audiences.

My point is that I think SE is in a tight spot, so I'm curious how they work their way out of it.
They are certainly in a tight spot, but I feel they can keep the interest up as long as they can maintain the high quality we've seen so far.

One way I think it could work is by taking their time working on Part 2 - say 4 years - and work on the locations for the following parts at the same time to a certain degree, so that the waits for Parts 3 and 4 are only 18 months each or so. Post 4 especially could have a lot of content, but relatively little environment work needed.

I don't think they'll go past three parts. If they have to cut or streamline stuff, they will, for better or worse. But I think/hope we'll be surprised at how much they're able to do in three.
They've already explicitly said that the whole point of this project is to avoid cutting or streamlining anything.
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
1,761
They are certainly in a tight spot, but I feel they can keep the interest up as long as they can maintain the high quality we've seen so far.

One way I think it could work is by taking their time working on Part 2 - say 4 years - and work on the locations for the following parts at the same time to a certain degree, so that the waits for Parts 3 and 4 are only 18 months each or so. Post 4 especially could have a lot of content, but relatively little environment work needed.



They've already explicitly said that the whole point of this project is to avoid cutting or streamlining anything.
I get that. But I still think they would rather that than burn people out with too many installments.
 

msia2k75

Member
Nov 1, 2017
483
They are certainly in a tight spot, but I feel they can keep the interest up as long as they can maintain the high quality we've seen so far.

One way I think it could work is by taking their time working on Part 2 - say 4 years - and work on the locations for the following parts at the same time to a certain degree, so that the waits for Parts 3 and 4 are only 18 months each or so. Post 4 especially could have a lot of content, but relatively little environment work needed.



They've already explicitly said that the whole point of this project is to avoid cutting or streamlining anything.
That's the whole point. Cutting and streamlining stuff will, for sure, generate much more negative mood than being a 4 part episode instead of three.
 

msia2k75

Member
Nov 1, 2017
483
They are certainly in a tight spot, but I feel they can keep the interest up as long as they can maintain the high quality we've seen so far.

One way I think it could work is by taking their time working on Part 2 - say 4 years - and work on the locations for the following parts at the same time to a certain degree, so that the waits for Parts 3 and 4 are only 18 months each or so. Post 4 especially could have a lot of content, but relatively little environment work needed.



They've already explicitly said that the whole point of this project is to avoid cutting or streamlining anything.
Just out of curiousity, how do you think they will separate each game?
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
5,242
Just out of curiousity, how do you think they will separate each game?
I wrote that earlier, but to repeat:

Part 2: starts with the Nibelheim flashback at Kalm, ends with the big twist of discovering the intact Nibelheim (bookends!)

Part 3: starts where Part 2 left off and you proceed to explore Nibelheim, ends with the big ESB-esque downer ending at the Northern Crater.

Part 4: tells the rest of the story.
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
3,237
Tim Rogers says that Midgar actually had one third of the script. So if you're putting more 'game's in Midgar it begins to make sense as the first part of a trilogy.

4 parts would be too much. I dont even think that it should be too tough to get the rest in 2 anyway. Some stuff might need to be moved earlier, or later. In the next games it's not like we will be spending an amount of time in places like Junon proportional to the extra tine we are spending in Midgar anyway. Some stuff could be exactly as long as the old game.
 

msia2k75

Member
Nov 1, 2017
483
Tim Rogers says that Midgar actually had one third of the script. So if you're putting more 'game's in Midgar it begins to make sense as the first part of a trilogy.

4 parts would be too much. I dont even think that it should be too tough to get the rest in 2 anyway. Some stuff might need to be moved earlier, or later. In the next games it's not like we will be spending an amount of time in places like Junon proportional to the extra tine we are spending in Midgar anyway. Some stuff could be exactly as long as the old game.
For the original game? Because what was true for the original might not be for the remake...
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
3,237
For the original game? Because what was true for the original might not be for the remake...
Yeah, for the original game. I just don't think the remake needs to linger as long in places like Kalm, Junon, Corel etc as they are planning in some of the Midgar locations.

I'm going to guess this first part will be massively expanded, the following parts much less so. The more split up it gets the more tedious this re-imagining will become.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
5,242
Tim Rogers says that Midgar actually had one third of the script. So if you're putting more 'game's in Midgar it begins to make sense as the first part of a trilogy.

4 parts would be too much. I dont even think that it should be too tough to get the rest in 2 anyway. Some stuff might need to be moved earlier, or later. In the next games it's not like we will be spending an amount of time in places like Junon proportional to the extra tine we are spending in Midgar anyway. Some stuff could be exactly as long as the old game.
Percentages of scripts and the length of time you spend in each place has very little to do with it. What matters is how many very different locations the developers are required to build in full 1:1 scale. Spending less time in a location doesn't make the location quicker to build, not if you're wanting it to feel properly fleshed out. That's the true bottleneck, and it's why a lot of games these days have you spend a lot of time in individual locations and even return to them later - it's much, much easier on the developers. FFVII was made in a different style where many wildly different locations in one game was much more feasible (the catch being the lack of interactivity or camera control), and so it was designed around that. Now they are trying to adapt that design to the new style, and multiple games is the only answer.