Final Fantasy VII Remake General Discussion Thread [Open Spoilers for Original FFVII ONLY please!]

Should this thread contain open spoilers?

  • Yes

    Votes: 1,396 73.9%
  • No

    Votes: 492 26.1%

  • Total voters
    1,888

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
3,215
Percentages of scripts and the length of time you spend in each place has very little to do with it. What matters is how many very different locations the developers are required to build in full 1:1 scale. Spending less time in a location doesn't make the location quicker to build, not if you're wanting it to feel properly fleshed out. That's the true bottleneck, and it's why a lot of games these days have you spend a lot of time in individual locations and even return to them later - it's much, much easier on the developers. FFVII was made in a different style where many wildly different locations in one game was much more feasible (the catch being the lack of interactivity or camera control), and so it was designed around that. Now they are trying to adapt that design to the new style, and multiple games is the only answer.
Multiple games is the only answer but I just don't see it taking 4 games. Probably the largest scale locations are going to be ones with lots of places that need to be explored. So that's places like Nibelheim, Gold Saucer and Cosmo Canyon. Places like Junon were just a street with shops in the original on the first visit. Kalm isn't necessarily important at all to reproduce in extremely high detail. It will of course take more work to make them look the same as they did, but it shouldn't require the work we are seeing from Midgar where we have entire new scenarios like running through the wreckage of the sector 7 collapse.

For me personally I would lose interest in a game that just ended in Nibelheim anyway. There would be zero major plot beats in that game other than the flashback at the start. The majority of the game would just be vignettes about different characters like Barett and Red with a fairly deadened pace when it came to the much more formative stuff. You need to start getting to things like temple of the ancients, gaia cliff, meteor summon etc relatively more quickly than that.

The Midgar section is a bit easier cause it has quite a few big events clustered together that you can hinge a narrative off of. The rest of disc 1 is much too slow until the very end (post Rocket Town)
 

♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,888
I wrote that earlier, but to repeat:

Part 2: starts with the Nibelheim flashback at Kalm, ends with the big twist of discovering the intact Nibelheim (bookends!)

Part 3: starts where Part 2 left off and you proceed to explore Nibelheim, ends with the big ESB-esque downer ending at the Northern Crater.

Part 4: tells the rest of the story.


Makes the most sense for resources and each game would be different .

I guess

2: Shinra's world. Main two continents, maybe a new battle at rocket town with Shinra coming up mount Nibel and Sephiroth's ghost/Vincent showing up .That could be really epic. Ending: tiny bronco being fixed whilst fireworks at gold saucer date. Maybe post credits Cait Sith meets up with turks. New permanent characters: Yuffie and Red XIII

3: The Old World. Open world with boat. A new intro where you visit Wutai following the turks for information about Cait Sith's betrayal. Themes and locations: Loads of natural areas, including the forest mountains of Wutai, the shores of Midel, the ruins of the ancients and the snowy mountains of the northern continent. Maybe some Easter egg/areas from Crisis Core's war. New permanent characters: Cid and Vincent.

4: Full world. Airship and underwater, and loads and loads of action set pieces and big Weapon fight. Proper side quests for all the ultimate weapons.

What I was thinking with my mock up covers, Tifa in Nibelheim (where it begins and ends), part 3 Aeris 'finale' and the lore of the ancients, part 4 Sephiroth time.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
5,240
Multiple games is the only answer but I just don't see it taking 4 games. Probably the largest scale locations are going to be ones with lots of places that need to be explored. So that's places like Nibelheim, Gold Saucer and Cosmo Canyon. Places like Junon were just a street with shops in the original on the first visit. Kalm isn't necessarily important at all to reproduce in extremely high detail. It will of course take more work to make them look the same as they did, but it shouldn't require the work we are seeing from Midgar where we have entire new scenarios like running through the wreckage of the sector 7 collapse.

For me personally I would lose interest in a game that just ended in Nibelheim anyway. There would be zero major plot beats in that game other than the flashback at the start. The majority of the game would just be vignettes about different characters like Barett and Red with a fairly deadened pace when it came to the much more formative stuff. You need to start getting to things like temple of the ancients, gaia cliff, meteor summon etc relatively more quickly than that.

The Midgar section is a bit easier cause it has quite a few big events clustered together that you can hinge a narrative off of. The rest of disc 1 is much too slow until the very end (post Rocket Town)
Junon's appearance in the original game means nothing - they could get away with making it a long street when they were just working with flat isometric backgrounds, they can't do it with a 1:1 environment with full camera control. It's a huge city, that's the reality of the story - it's supposed to be second only to Midgar in size. Obviously that doesn't mean it'll be the size of Part 1 or anything, but it will need to be at least as big and detailed as Lestallum or Altissia, and they'll have to add more exploration to justify that. And hell, it's not just that they have to - their discussion of how they want to do this remake heavily indicates its exactly what they want to do. They won't want the player to travel to the second biggest city in the game, match down one street and leave.

And this is why I wrote earlier that they would need to expand the story in ways that make them work better as individual parts, like having more fights with Shinra and Jenova and expanding Cosmo Canyon into a major climax. Altering and expanding the story in that way is a challenge, sure, but not as insurmountable as having to make all these different locations in one game.
 

Nonagon

Member
Jan 2, 2020
19
I also think there will be more than 3 parts. The game length of the remake will neither be based on script alone nor on distances/dimensions covered, but probably whichever is "bigger." Midgar has 1/3 of the script but the dimensions are smaller, once you get out of Midgar you have to fill in all that space, as it becomes the dominant factor determining game length.
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
3,215
And this is why I wrote earlier that they would need to expand the story in ways that make them work better as individual parts, like having more fights with Shinra and Jenova and expanding Cosmo Canyon into a major climax. Altering and expanding the story in that way is a challenge, sure, but not as insurmountable as having to make all these different locations in one game.
The thing is ultimately this is a story mostly set in stone and the parts that are malleable aren't generally the world changing bits like meteor, or weapon or Aeris. So a lot of this proposed 'expanding' could eventually become tedious if they justify a longer stay in Cosmo Canyon and other places just by having extra fights with Shinra and Jenova all the time.

This is why I don't agree that everything just needs to be bigger, outside of fully realising it in 3D. Ultimately it could lead to an MCU-ificiation where each chapter just feels kind of insignificant after a while. Especially the second one.

The reason Midgar will probably work is the fact that it is apparently one third of the script and there's very little downtime between different story beats. You can stretch that out and make it feel fuller. But the rest of disc 1 isn't like that at all.

Some expansion is needed and some of the choices they are making now seem good, like the sector 7 aftermath being an actual thing in this game. But too much and the narrative will just feel slack and uninteresting.

If they choose to invest big in a place like Junon in part 2 they might want to consider bring forward something like the huge materia stuff, even before meteor. They hint at it in Gongaga in the original so that's not a major change. Also that's the one part of the original FFVII that felt badly paced anyway so introducing it earlier would be an improvement
 

♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,888
Junon's appearance in the original game means nothing - they could get away with making it a long street when they were just working with flat isometric backgrounds, they can't do it with a 1:1 environment with full camera control. It's a huge city, that's the reality of the story - it's supposed to be second only to Midgar in size. Obviously that doesn't mean it'll be the size of Part 1 or anything, but it will need to be at least as big and detailed as Lestallum or Altissia, and they'll have to add more exploration to justify that. And hell, it's not just that they have to - their discussion of how they want to do this remake heavily indicates its exactly what they want to do. They won't want the player to travel to the second biggest city in the game, match down one street and leave.

And this is why I wrote earlier that they would need to expand the story in ways that make them work better as individual parts, like having more fights with Shinra and Jenova and expanding Cosmo Canyon into a major climax. Altering and expanding the story in that way is a challenge, sure, but not as insurmountable as having to make all these different locations in one game.
Around Rocket Town/mount Nibel could be a good made up climax because all the major players can meet there, your team, Cid/Vincent/Shinra/Rufus and ghost Sephiroth. Mount Nibel is also large and creepy enough to be a final level, and you hold up Shinra coming up the mountain.

Cid tries to get his airship back from some loyalist in Rocket town tries to steal his airship for Rufus. You defeat Shinra on the cliff but then ghost Sephiroth shows up, starts fucking everyone up and Vincent finally decides to awaken, and help you jump off the cliff onto the tiny bronco. Then Having the bronco crash near the gold saucer and having the date as an ending would be nice, the calm before the storm of episode 3 and very bittersweet knowing what happens to Cloud and Aeris in the next chapter.
 

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
2,986
This talk of how many sequels Remake will have has made me think of the music.

We're going to have a shitton of tracks, damn.
 

♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,888
This talk of how many sequels Remake will have has made me think of the music.

We're going to have a shitton of tracks, damn.
Part 3 or 2 might end up with some really dark credits music after Sephiroth 'wins' and Cloud falls into the lifestream. Seeing Diamond/Sapphire/Ultimate Weapon fly into the sky with meteor above them would be a great final shot. Empire strikes back or infinity war.
 
Oct 27, 2017
252


Makes the most sense for resources and each game would be different .

I guess

2: Shinra's world. Main two continents, maybe a new battle at rocket town with Shinra coming up mount Nibel and Sephiroth's ghost/Vincent showing up .That could be really epic. Ending: tiny bronco being fixed whilst fireworks at gold saucer date. Maybe post credits Cait Sith meets up with turks. New permanent characters: Yuffie and Red XIII

3: The Old World. Open world with boat. A new intro where you visit Wutai following the turks for information about Cait Sith's betrayal. Themes and locations: Loads of natural areas, including the forest mountains of Wutai, the shores of Midel, the ruins of the ancients and the snowy mountains of the northern continent. Maybe some Easter egg/areas from Crisis Core's war. New permanent characters: Cid and Vincent.

4: Full world. Airship and underwater, and loads and loads of action set pieces and big Weapon fight. Proper side quests for all the ultimate weapons.

What I was thinking with my mock up covers, Tifa in Nibelheim (where it begins and ends), part 3 Aeris 'finale' and the lore of the ancients, part 4 Sephiroth time.
While going into the advent children story in part 4 then finishing off the dirge of Cerberus cliff hanger
 

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
2,986
Part 3 or 2 might end up with some really dark credits music after Sephiroth 'wins' and Cloud falls into the lifestream. Seeing Diamond/Sapphire/Ultimate Weapon fly into the sky with meteor above them would be a great final shot. Empire strikes back or infinity war.
I wonder if "Hollow" will also play as the main theme for the other games. I assume it'll be the credits song for this one.

The ESB and the IW comparison is pretty good. Depending on when they end things, we're bound to have some downer, ominous endings.
So...we'll have the entire remake by 2025?
Very doubtful imo. If it's three games, I can't see them taking less than 2.5/3 years to develop them (and even then). If it's four, maybe 2 years, but still.

Things will hopefully progress more smoothly now that there's a big starting point with the first game (many assets, animations, game systems...), but we have to consider just how massive and different the world outside Midgar should be (so, many new assets), how much is left in terms of content and how there should be five more playable characters (plus the overhauling of previously playable characters, as they're bound to have new abilities and so).

Very interested to see how this unfolds, especially since Remake 2 will surely be a next-gen exclusive game.
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
1,755
So...we'll have the entire remake by 2025?
Doubt it, but maybe if they really, really have a good development pipeline.

I did a quick comparison of Unique-ish areas and set pieces between Midgar and the Search for Sephiroth arc in VII. Obviously, I expect the portions from Midgar to be expanded in length to more closer match the pacing of the rest of the story, but just in terms of locations and events:

Sector 1 Reactor - Sector 7 - Sector 5 Reactor - Aerith Church/Escape from Turks - Sector 5 - Aerith's House - Wall Market - Don Corneo - The Sewers - The Train Graveyard - The Sector 7 Plate - Shinra Tower - Escape from Midgar

Kalm - Nibelheim Memory - Chocobo Farm - Mythril Mines - Lower Junon - Upper Junon - Junon Boat - Costa Del Sol - Mt. Corel - The Gold Saucer - Corel Prison - Cosmo Canyon - Nibelheim - Rocket Town - Return to Gold Saucer - Temple of the Ancients - Bone Village - City of the Ancients - Icicle Inn- Great Glacier - Northern Crater

There's definitely a lot more areas to create if you want to end the second part at the Northern Crater. 13 vs 22, by my count (19 if you only go up to Temple of the Ancients). And that's without factoring in any open field areas to connect them. I would expect some of it could be streamlined as well. Do we really need the Bone Village or the second Gold Saucer trip? I wouldn't be surprised if Lower Junon is cut as well, considering it's concept is essentially redundant with Midgar (lower class below, upper class high up).

Alternatively, they could end it at Nibelheim, but then I don't know where the rest of the series would be divided up, because the logical stopping point narratively for one of these is the Northern Crater, but I don't know if there's enough story content between Nibelheim and Northern Crater to justify a full release. I can see Midgar's story being expanded, but I can't see that section being padded out in the same way to make a satisfying arc.

I did and do think it's possible, but only if Square really has their asset development shit together, and only if they keep it relatively linear and focused. There's no way they'd get that many areas with a large open world. Hell I'm not sure they could have that many areas even with zoned travel.

(Bring back and modernize the world map, you cowards!)
 
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♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,888
Last part is definitely getting a new optional character, maybe Rufus or Cissnei
For new characters I would use Lucrecia who can only find peace when her son is stopped, "Jenova won't let me die... as punishment" I think she would be the most mind blowing new character as she have the most to say, like to Hojo and it'd give Vincent more story that he remains in the ending when she fades away. In the original she's just sealed in a cave as some ambigious spirit so I think I think it's an ok thing to elebarate on.
 

Lifejumper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,751
I don’t want Square to release part two within two years.. that means they rushing this shit outta the door.

We ffvii hypebeasts the next (two) decade(s)..
 

Eylos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,884
Im really interested where Yuffie is going to be considering you could get her before Juno or rocket town
my gut feeling says fort condor, its on par with the first time you can get her. We know that wutai might have ties with avalanche now, and fort condor resistance would make sense to have ties with avalanche and wutai, so i think its possible that yuffie might get introduced there, i think they might make the phoenix materia already something everyone knows about fort condor and thats why yuffie is there too.
 

TheJollyCorner

The Fallen
Nov 7, 2017
3,473
Folks, be careful about the newest Red XIII renders/New screenshots thread.
People are already haphazardly posting leak shit and not even spoiler tagging it.
 

TheJollyCorner

The Fallen
Nov 7, 2017
3,473

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
1,755
Given the chapter based structure of this first game, I'm starting to wonder if we'll really have an "explorable" world at all in future installments. The screenshots we saw today show that the sidequests are divvied up between chapters, which leads me to believe that each "Chapter" will be its own instance. I'm sure some areas will be shared, but I think it's fair to assume that there will be some delineation between chapters.

If future installments keep that structure, it may be that each location in the original game is going to be a "chapter" in the later installments, rather than it all taking place in one contiguous world.

I'd actually be okay with that, given the sheer production values on display, but I imagine some people would be pretty disappointed if that's the case.
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
3,215
Expecting a game of two halves with a hub area. First revolving around seventh heaven and then wall market. Main story missions will be fairly linear as seen on trailers, imo.

Would be nice to have some sort of postgame that's not Midgar. Like a Gran Pulse type location. Probably wont happen.
 
May 1, 2018
42
Given the chapter based structure of this first game, I'm starting to wonder if we'll really have an "explorable" world at all in future installments. The screenshots we saw today show that the sidequests are divvied up between chapters, which leads me to believe that each "Chapter" will be its own instance. I'm sure some areas will be shared, but I think it's fair to assume that there will be some delineation between chapters.

If future installments keep that structure, it may be that each location in the original game is going to be a "chapter" in the later installments, rather than it all taking place in one contiguous world.

I'd actually be okay with that, given the sheer production values on display, but I imagine some people would be pretty disappointed if that's the case.
Do you think they'll continue the chapters in the next game from the number it ends on in part 1? Would be kind of cool to then see it all the way through at the end once it's all completed
 

Balfour

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,843
Yeah, once this game finally comes out, hopefully people will get this shit out of their system and can STFU.

Buy or don't.

No one cares about your stupid takes anymore.
People complaining, saying they won't buy, will wait etc

will likely buy anyway. Especially the ones frequently posting who are too invested

But yeah hopefully after release peoples expectations for the future will be cemented, for better or worse and we can move on
 

Neoweee

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,647
This talk of how many sequels Remake will have has made me think of the music.

We're going to have a shitton of tracks, damn.
Depending on how you split dynamic tracks, FF7R's OST is probably more tracks than the whole original.

One of the more impressive AAA game soundtracks, especially in number of tracks vs. length of the game.

The drive-bys in the other thread are INSANE.
The problem is more the same two people derailing every single FF7R thread for multiple pages than it is drive us.
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
3,215
What I really want to know is how to say 'Red XIII'.

Is it 'Red thirteen', 'Red the thirteenth', 'Red number thirteen'?

It's always seems so awkward. Maybe he's just Nanaki now.
 

BlueManifest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,607
I saw the playstation website overview of FF7 and I’m not liking what I’m seeing

Mercenary cookie cutter side quests like looking for a cat as an example

new materia put behind some kid that gives side quests

these are the last things I would want in a ff7
 
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Isayas

Member
Jun 10, 2018
2,475


Makes the most sense for resources and each game would be different .

I guess

2: Shinra's world. Main two continents, maybe a new battle at rocket town with Shinra coming up mount Nibel and Sephiroth's ghost/Vincent showing up .That could be really epic. Ending: tiny bronco being fixed whilst fireworks at gold saucer date. Maybe post credits Cait Sith meets up with turks. New permanent characters: Yuffie and Red XIII

3: The Old World. Open world with boat. A new intro where you visit Wutai following the turks for information about Cait Sith's betrayal. Themes and locations: Loads of natural areas, including the forest mountains of Wutai, the shores of Midel, the ruins of the ancients and the snowy mountains of the northern continent. Maybe some Easter egg/areas from Crisis Core's war. New permanent characters: Cid and Vincent.

4: Full world. Airship and underwater, and loads and loads of action set pieces and big Weapon fight. Proper side quests for all the ultimate weapons.

What I was thinking with my mock up covers, Tifa in Nibelheim (where it begins and ends), part 3 Aeris 'finale' and the lore of the ancients, part 4 Sephiroth time.
Wait, wait. End the 2nd part at the Tin Bronco? How on earth would that work?
 

♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,888
Wait, wait. End the 2nd part at the Tin Bronco? How on earth would that work?
In the original, Rufus and Shinra are trying to steal the tiny bronco and it's shot down. This is the last main location in the west continent. You can have a new last boss here whether it's Rufus or Sephiroth's ghost. Now if you can get to control it in part 3 they can build all the areas you can access with it.

Part 2's ending could be the golden saucer's date which is really bittersweet knowing Aeris will die half way through the next part, and the tiny bronco is being converted by Cid.

I imagine have it so in part 3, a brief time skip and the first stages is Wutai (mow massive) following the trail of the turks/Cait Sith and when you leave, you then control it as a boat and Cid has made it sailable in between games.
 

Zen

Member
Nov 1, 2017
4,792
Very happy that Tifa is wearing spandex shorts so I don't feel inappropriate every time she does a high kick