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Oct 25, 2017
56,652
Y'all gotta stop engaging so much all the time man lol let ppl be negative F it and move right along.(I've learned this from my years of experience in dreams threads 😏)

That said I got the plaT for Ffxv it's only right I do everything humanly possible in ff7. Two more months guys
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
People have the right to worry and question. But their trolls and cynicism is not valid and its annoying. Square has shown nothing but near perfection regarding this game and it's deserving of praise and hope.
I can write an essay on why this doesn't hold true for some fans of the game, but I realize no one cares. Assuming everyone who has a dissenting opinion is a troll is par for the course at this point.

There are absolutely things to be critical about (Square not making it clear that it's not the entire game being remade, subjective things like not being on board with additions like the smoke monsters) but yeah, in a lot of cases like this one many are judging an element of a game (side quests) based on two or three screenshots. It's absurd.
Engage with them then. Explain how they're wrong. Explain why they're misguided for drawing conclusions based on Square's track record. That's what's stupid about the discourse on this forum. People would rather vaguebook post about people being wrong instead of actually explain or engage because engaging would require effort.

There is plenty of reason to be annoyed that FF7 is being bogged down by any quests of this nature, regardless of it being "a staple" of other JRPGs. This game also has the misfortune of trying to prove itself necessary to pad out and keep the player in Midgar versus taking the audiences to the rest of the places in the game that many people enjoy and are attached to.

Even if the Rat Quest ends with a giant Morlboro popping out of the ground and attacking the slums, it's still going to be silly that it exists in a game that didn't have nor need this type of quest before. CAll me old fashioned but the original FF7 took plenty of time without this, and its sidequests were mostly weapon related or extra dungeons. I just see this type of quest design as lazy and unneeded.

And people like myself are happy to be proven wrong if we are, but again, context. Track Record. History.

I'm just prepared to be let down after KH3 launched with zero post-game content, no battle arenas and no Final Fantasy characters after spending months being like "they're holding it back to surprise us, that has to be what it is!"

It's really hard to be optimistic when Square is involved these days.
That's the issue. Just like with Anthem, Andromeda, and other games it's baffling to me that people can draw conclusions from pre-release info and people will constantly talk down to them until it's proven 100% without a doubt they were right, and even then getting people to admit it is next to impossible.

I'd be happy to be wrong about this, but I wasn't wrong about KH3 and I wasn't wrong about Anthem and Andromeda.
 

Scrooge McDuck

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,038
On a mechanical level sure, and if FF7 tries to frame any of these with a narrative that's interesting I'll (like stated previously) enjoy being proven wrong because then my apprehension will have been for nothing. But just saying Witcher 3 has fetch quests while ignoring the narrative additions and world building associated with them 99% of the time (I'd need someone to tell me a specific quest that doesn't because I can't remember any, and I remember a majority of W3's sidequests more than some of the main story) is a fallacy. They're night and day comparisons to FFXV.

There are actually quite a number of unremarkable "I want to go there but there are monsters please kill them" type of contract quests in The Witcher 3 where Geralt would just go into a cave, kill some giant centipedes, come back and get his money rather straightforwardly. As well as all those "I am a bandit who hid my gold but then a monster ate me but not before I wrote this letter" treasure hunts.
 

bunkitz

Brave Little Spark
Moderator
Oct 28, 2017
13,510
Oh, and the Nail Bat looks fantastic. It's a pretty late game weapon in the original though, yeah? Makes me wonder how Square will handle the weapons, Limit Breaks, materia, etc. for the later installments of the remake. Surely they won't allow players to unlock Omnislash this early.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,484
Well I don't expect a lot of post game stuff here to begin with. Definitely not post release content. They already working on part 2 so its likely aside from next gen ports with a few extras, this will be it for Part 1 aside from maybe costumes or some shit

What would be a cool idea for this game would be that every game has an Ultima Weapon in it, and it evolves visually (and stats-wise) each time you unlock it. So you get one at the end of part 1 and it's strong for that game but when you start part 2 it's maybe marginally better than the starting weapon for part 2 and quickly outclassed. Then you do a sidequest in part 2 and it gets upgraded. And each game you upgrade it until it's in full white light blade form from the original game.
 

ultima786

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,711
I can write an essay on why this doesn't hold true for some fans of the game, but I realize no one cares. Assuming everyone who has a dissenting opinion is a troll is par for the course at this point.


Engage with them then. Explain how they're wrong. Explain why they're misguided for drawing conclusions based on Square's track record. That's what's stupid about the discourse on this forum. People would rather vaguebook post about people being wrong instead of actually explain or engage because engaging would require effort.

There is plenty of reason to be annoyed that FF7 is being bogged down by any quests of this nature, regardless of it being "a staple" of other JRPGs. This game also has the misfortune of trying to prove itself necessary to pad out and keep the player in Midgar versus taking the audiences to the rest of the places in the game that many people enjoy and are attached to.

Even if the Rat Quest ends with a giant Morlboro popping out of the ground and attacking the slums, it's still going to be silly that it exists in a game that didn't have nor need this type of quest before. CAll me old fashioned but the original FF7 took plenty of time without this, and its sidequests were mostly weapon related or extra dungeons. I just see this type of quest design as lazy and unneeded.

And people like myself are happy to be proven wrong if we are, but again, context. Track Record. History.


That's the issue. Just like with Anthem, Andromeda, and other games it's baffling to me that people can draw conclusions from pre-release info and people will constantly talk down to them until it's proven 100% without a doubt they were right, and even then getting people to admit it is next to impossible.
Your problem here is your double standard. Yes, we hopeful folk don't know if the game's side quests will be great, but we have a basis for our hope. You then turn around right away assuming a few screens are proof of hundreds of fetch quests! That appeared to me as an troll comment, since you clearly don't know if this is true.

Im suggesting just take it easy. I personally and floored by what I see and see lots of reason to be hopeful.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
I'm just prepared to be let down after KH3 launched with zero post-game content, no battle arenas and no Final Fantasy characters after spending months being like "they're holding it back to surprise us, that has to be what it is!"

It's really hard to be optimistic when Square is involved these days.
KHIII had post-game content + a healthy amount of optional side content throughout the worlds.
 

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196
Engage with them then. Explain how they're wrong. Explain why they're misguided for drawing conclusions based on Square's track record. That's what's stupid about the discourse on this forum. People would rather vaguebook post about people being wrong instead of actually explain or engage because engaging would require effort.

I, uh, did. Twice within the first 3 pages.

Also judging games pre-release based on "track record" is a cynical route to take, IMO, but I get why people are pessimistic.
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,934
Oh, and the Nail Bat looks fantastic. It's a pretty late game weapon in the original though, yeah? Makes me wonder how Square will handle the weapons, Limit Breaks, materia, etc. for the later installments of the remake. Surely they won't allow players to unlock Omnislash this early.
Not sure about limit breaks, but we know a little bit about Materia. I can't remember if it was an official release or a leak thing so I'll spoiler it just in case:

We know that -aga level magic is in the game (generally endgame level magic, if someone isn't familiar with Final Fantasy). So it looks like a full progression path is in place.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
There are actually quite a number of unremarkable "I want to go there but there are monsters please kill them" type of contract quests in The Witcher 3 where Geralt would just go into a cave, kill some giant centipedes, come back and get his money rather straightforwardly. As well as all those "I am a bandit who hid my gold but then a monster ate me but not before I wrote this letter" treasure hunts.
The treasure hunts are probably the worst offenders, but I'm talking most of the quest lines that are there to flesh out the lore and world.

We're also talking about a completely open world game that WILL have padded quests versus a game that is supposedly taking a more "story focused" approach and isn't open world and is chapter based. Witcher being a 100+ hour game versus 20-30 FF7 by most counts.

I'm going to hope it gets close to Nier Automata levels which handled a similar structure of quest design in its segmented parts, but expecting to get "Thanks Cloud!" and then it never matter again.

Your problem here is your double standard. Yes, we hopeful folk don't know if the game's side quests will be great, but we have a basis for our hope. You then turn around right away assuming a few screens are proof of hundreds of fetch quests! That appeared to me as an troll comment, since you clearly don't know if this is true.

Im suggesting just take it easy. I personally and floored by what I see and see lots of reason to be hopeful.
You stated they've shown "near perfection" regarding this game and I disagree entirely. Your basis that you're supporting is based on a basis that I would not agree with, and have disagreed with at length. That's why your being "hopeful" means next to nothing to me because I'm being called a troll for not jumping on board and yet if I dismissed your optimism with simply calling you an apologist for Square I'd get rightly criticized.

I, uh, did. Twice within the first 3 pages.

Also judging games pre-release based on "track record" is a cynical route to take, IMO, but I get why people are pessimistic.
I am a cynic. Yes. Still doesn't really defer any of my commentary or opinions and I stand by them, but glad we could at least reach an agreement that we won't see eye to eye on it.
 

Balfour

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,541
What would be a cool idea for this game would be that every game has an Ultima Weapon in it, and it evolves visually (and stats-wise) each time you unlock it. So you get one at the end of part 1 and it's strong for that game but when you start part 2 it's maybe marginally better than the starting weapon for part 2 and quickly outclassed. Then you do a sidequest in part 2 and it gets upgraded. And each game you upgrade it until it's in full white light blade form from the original game.
well we know you can upgrade weapons so its possible. But right now that seems to be more of so you can use abilities of one weapon on another. Not sure
 

ultima786

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,711
The treasure hunts are probably the worst offenders, but I'm talking most of the quest lines that are there to flesh out the lore and world.

We're also talking about a completely open world game that WILL have padded quests versus a game that is supposedly taking a more "story focused" approach and isn't open world and is chapter based. Witcher being a 100+ hour game versus 20-30 FF7 by most counts.

I'm going to hope it gets close to Nier Automata levels which handled a similar structure of quest design in its segmented parts, but expecting to get "Thanks Cloud!" and then it never matter again.


You stated they've shown "near perfection" regarding this game and I disagree entirely. Your basis that you're supporting is based on a basis that I would not agree with, and have disagreed with at length. That's why your being "hopeful" means next to nothing to me because I'm being called a troll for not jumping on board and yet if I dismissed your optimism with simply calling you an apologist for Square I'd get rightly criticized.


I am a cynic. Yes. Still doesn't really defer any of my commentary or opinions and I stand by them, but glad we could at least reach an agreement that we won't see eye to eye on it.
The troll comment was directed to your assumptions about how the sidequests would be, which is conjecture on your part. I didn't ask you to base anything on my 'hope'. Im asking you to change your approach from "trolling" by conjecture and maybe at least consider "Skepticism" until the game or reviews come out.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
The troll comment was directed to your assumptions about how the sidequests would be, which is conjecture on your part. I didn't ask you to base anything on my 'hope'. Im asking you to change your approach from "trolling" by conjecture and maybe at least consider "Skepticism" until the game or reviews come out.
Except that my skepticism is then reframed as trolling.

This is also ignoring that I never said it's got "hundreds of sidequests" and simply pointed out that these quests existing in general is a detriment to the pacing and story of the original game.

You're telling me to look at the info that I'm not agreeing with (The forced additions of characters from Nomura, the reframing of narrative, the changing to characters writing and story plot beats and game structure by locking it into Midgar) and be hopeful, but the flaw of that perspective is that I don't see merit to what they're doing with FF7. For me to be "hopeful" I have to see the additions and trailers as you do. While some people look at this content and go "look how faithful they're being" I look at the content and see all the changes for the worse sans a few. That's why my skepticism and "conjecture" will never be on the same grounds as yours because your optimism is based on literally the same basis my dissenting opinions are.

Not that my opinion matters though, it'll sell millions and my opinion will ultimately mean nothing.
 

OberstKrueger

Member
Jan 7, 2018
591
I'm kinda surprised we still haven't seen a single alternative skin for the characters (unless you count the Wall Market dresses).

I'm really hoping this is something they're holding back for whatever reason. I want Tifa in her Advent Children costume so bad. The new design is fine, but I've always loved her AC look more. Although I think she's the only one who had a drastically different look, so...

It was a fun side aspect of FFXV, but that game had a focus on fashion from the very beginning that VII never did.
 

FrostweaveBandage

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Sep 27, 2019
6,609
Seems like Kitase is taking some advice from Yuji Horii on this one. DQ's have been having "Kill X enemy using Y method" quests for years.

Side content needs to be relevant and interesting, and some of those in DQXI were tough to do, but worthwhile.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
I'm really hoping this is something they're holding back for whatever reason. I want Tifa in her Advent Children costume so bad. The new design is fine, but I've always loved her AC look more. Although I think she's the only one who had a drastically different look, so...

It was a fun side aspect of FFXV, but that game had a focus on fashion from the very beginning that VII never did.
Yeah I had held onto that hope for Xenoblade 2 and all I got was bathing suit DLC and some palette swaps :(
 

PAFenix

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Nov 21, 2019
14,609
I can write an essay on why this doesn't hold true for some fans of the game, but I realize no one cares. Assuming everyone who has a dissenting opinion is a troll is par for the course at this point.


Engage with them then. Explain how they're wrong. Explain why they're misguided for drawing conclusions based on Square's track record. That's what's stupid about the discourse on this forum. People would rather vaguebook post about people being wrong instead of actually explain or engage because engaging would require effort.

There is plenty of reason to be annoyed that FF7 is being bogged down by any quests of this nature, regardless of it being "a staple" of other JRPGs. This game also has the misfortune of trying to prove itself necessary to pad out and keep the player in Midgar versus taking the audiences to the rest of the places in the game that many people enjoy and are attached to.

Even if the Rat Quest ends with a giant Morlboro popping out of the ground and attacking the slums, it's still going to be silly that it exists in a game that didn't have nor need this type of quest before. CAll me old fashioned but the original FF7 took plenty of time without this, and its sidequests were mostly weapon related or extra dungeons. I just see this type of quest design as lazy and unneeded.

And people like myself are happy to be proven wrong if we are, but again, context. Track Record. History.

I can't comment on KH3, since I haven't played that. But is it the same team/story writer/etc. working on this remake the one that worked on XV? I was under the impression that when Tabata took over, everything was redone from the ground up. I'd say it's hard to judge the quality of side-quests based on track record if the teams change each go. (FFXIII being Toriyama & FFXV being Tabata).

FFXIV has amazing side-quest stories, but I'm fully aware that team is it's own beast off to the side. As much as I'd like to bring them up as Square doing well with good story side-content, it's probably not the best comparison.
 

Carn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,911
The Netherlands
latest


Do you wanna take some photographs?

JACK YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO DIE, THE ISLAND NEEDS YOU
 

Truly Gargantuan

Still doesn't have a tag :'(
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,034
I still can't believe there were people out there saying Red XIII was going to be cut from the game
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,934
As I suspected, game will be filled with filler content.
Isn't it only filler content if it's not optional? Do we have anything showing that these are going to be required?

Like you can talk about the structure of the side-content all day, but the mere existence of side-content implying that the game is going to be loaded with filler is a bit of a leap. Especially when side content is considered pretty much mandatory in RPGs nowadays.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
I can't comment on KH3, since I haven't played that. But is it the same team/story writer/etc. working on this remake the one that worked on XV? I was under the impression that when Tabata took over, everything was redone from the ground up. I'd say it's hard to judge the quality of side-quests based on track record if the teams change each go. (FFXIII being Toriyama & FFXV being Tabata).

FFXIV has amazing side-quest stories, but I'm fully aware that team is it's own beast off to the side. As much as I'd like to bring them up as Square doing well with good story side-content, it's probably not the best comparison.
FFXIV has Ishikawa, who has lifted up a lot of writing in the game starting with her Dark Knight quests and culminating in Shadowbringers. They also have Yoshi-P who has proven himself time and again to be an extremely talented and engaged product manager and producer who knows how to manage his projects well.

I love FFXIV but aside from some of the few chain ones most of the story beats for the side content is pretty dry, with things like the Manderville quests and trial unlocks being the highlights of their respective expansion.

It's not the same team as FFXV I believe though. And design mentality across a company is very much a unified front in most ways, which is how they keep teams compartmentalized to work on content and be able to bring them to and from supporting other games by other teams in the staff. That being said, games tend to follow their predecessors, and like I said before, happy to be wrong on this one.


Isn't it only filler content if it's not optional? Do we have anything showing that these are going to be required?

Like you can talk about the structure of the side-content all day, but the mere existence of side-content implying that the game is going to be loaded with filler is a bit of a leap. Especially when side content is considered pretty much mandatory in RPGs nowadays.
I'd argue if they did more than Midgar and expanded on more of the tangential story beats from the original game you wouldn't need "side content" in this format but I lost that battle a long time ago.
 

Carn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,911
The Netherlands
Oh, and the Nail Bat looks fantastic. It's a pretty late game weapon in the original though, yeah? Makes me wonder how Square will handle the weapons, Limit Breaks, materia, etc. for the later installments of the remake. Surely they won't allow players to unlock Omnislash this early.

Wouldnt surprise me if limitbreaks are coupled to total XP, and this game will just have an XP-cap.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,484
I can't comment on KH3, since I haven't played that. But is it the same team/story writer/etc. working on this remake the one that worked on XV? I was under the impression that when Tabata took over, everything was redone from the ground up. I'd say it's hard to judge the quality of side-quests based on track record if the teams change each go. (FFXIII being Toriyama & FFXV being Tabata).

FFXIV has amazing side-quest stories, but I'm fully aware that team is it's own beast off to the side. As much as I'd like to bring them up as Square doing well with good story side-content, it's probably not the best comparison.

No, this is not the FFXV team. The closest approximation would be the original Kingdom Hearts 2 team, and even that isn't a truly fair representation considering how much Square has changed in the past decade and a half.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,484
I still can't believe there were people out there saying Red XIII was going to be cut from the game

Nobody thought he was going to be cut from the game, but the chances of him being a fully playable party member are slim to none considering he joins the party about 20 minutes before the end of the Midgar section and is in your party for a sum total of about 2 battles, one of which is a mostly-scripted elevator boss fight before he spends the highway chase sitting in the back of the truck watching Cloud murder people on a motorcycle.

Like they're not going to flesh him out as a full party member in this part and people need to make their peace with that. The way they broke up the episodes basically makes it not worth the effort. He'll be fully playable in part 2.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
I really doubt the game will have alternate outfits tbh. I dunno really why but I think SE will want to establish the new remake designs as the only ones going forward.
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,934
I'd argue if they did more than Midgar and expanded on more of the tangential story beats from the original game you wouldn't need "side content" in this format but I lost that battle a long time ago.
If it didn't have this kind of stuff, then people would be complaining about how linear it is. Like I said, you can argue over the quality of the side content, but side content itself is expected nowadays, and is expected throughout the experience.

You can't really make an RPG like OG VII where you're shuffled along a plot for most of the game and then have some major sidequests near the end, though I wish that were still acceptable. But the standards are different now, and this isn't OG VII.
 

HeeHo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
475
I normally crave side quests in this fashion where you get an in game list of them that are fairly easy to complete but I immediately got some Lightning Returns/XV vibes from that screen shot.
I hope they don't have NPCs looking/animating all awkward and the dialogue being super corny.
That said - still excited.
 

FrostweaveBandage

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Sep 27, 2019
6,609
I'd argue if they did more than Midgar and expanded on more of the tangential story beats from the original game you wouldn't need "side content" in this format but I lost that battle a long time ago.

I think there wasn't a good option to end part 1 on after Midgar without this taking another three years. What's the next pivotal area? Junon? The boat? Certainly not Mythril Mines or Ft. Condor.

I agree about the tangential story beats. I do think this is a feasible way to get players to go back into the world, into different sectors, etc. But I do think it's too organized. On some level, I don't want it to be checkbox questing. But this is just gaming today. Even The Witcher has a quest log.
 

Arion

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,807
Isn't it only filler content if it's not optional? Do we have anything showing that these are going to be required?

Like you can talk about the structure of the side-content all day, but the mere existence of side-content implying that the game is going to be loaded with filler is a bit of a leap. Especially when side content is considered pretty much mandatory in RPGs nowadays.
Filler is filler, optional or required.
 

badcrumble

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,730
The fact that sidequests seem to be locked to particular chapters seems interesting. I wonder how this game is going to come down on the question of missable content/backtracking (outside of the one huge obvious thing that'd be a story spoiler).
 

FrostweaveBandage

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Sep 27, 2019
6,609
I normally crave side quests in this fashion where you get an in game list of them that are fairly easy to complete but I immediately got some Lightning Returns/XV vibes from that screen shot.
I hope they don't have NPCs looking/animating all awkward and the dialogue being super corny.
That said - still excited.

Good point here. FFXV had some really bad NPC animations, clearly chalked up to some level of bad polish. There were times when Cindy never looked people straight in the eye. Constantly moving and looking around like she had to go pee. This needs to be done better here. I don't even care if they just stand still or occasionally switch to a folded arms position. Just don't look awkward. This is why I don't complain when games delay to add polish. By all means, do it.
 

Truly Gargantuan

Still doesn't have a tag :'(
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,034
Nobody thought he was going to be cut from the game, but the chances of him being a fully playable party member are slim to none considering he joins the party about 20 minutes before the end of the Midgar section and is in your party for a sum total of about 2 battles, one of which is a mostly-scripted elevator boss fight before he spends the highway chase sitting in the back of the truck watching Cloud murder people on a motorcycle.

Like they're not going to flesh him out as a full party member in this part and people need to make their peace with that. The way they broke up the episodes basically makes it not worth the effort. He'll be fully playable in part 2.
Nah they were definitely people out there saying Red XIII was not going to be in the remake at all due to him not fitting the more realistic style.

Also it might be time for me to stop browsing these threads cause I'm getting spoiled on shit
 

Arion

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,807
So what makes this filler?
Cloud can help out the many people across Midgar, including local merchants. These tasks are varied – he'll be asked to deal with anything, from taking out troublesome monsters to finding lost cats. In this quest, Cloud is asked to deal with some Drakes. He'll get valuable rewards for completing the task.

From the blog post. Sounds like a bunch of filler quests.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,484
If it didn't have this kind of stuff, then people would be complaining about how linear it is. Like I said, you can argue over the quality of the side content, but side content itself is expected nowadays, and is expected throughout the experience.

You can't really make an RPG like OG VII where you're shuffled along a plot for most of the game and then have some major sidequests near the end, though I wish that were still acceptable. But the standards are different now, and this isn't OG VII.

The thing is that optional VII was linear but it still GAVE you freedom once you leave Midgar. You didn't have to run straight forward if you didn't want to, and that light illusion of freedom helped a lot with making the game feel like a world and not a highway.

If this game wasn't stopping right at the end of the one part of FFVII that DOES feel like a narrative highway and people had the ability to explore the world I don't think linearity complaints WOULD be super prominent. Midgar's story is generally a bit too urgent TO let the player stop and dick around a lot.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
If it didn't have this kind of stuff, then people would be complaining about how linear it is. Like I said, you can argue over the quality of the side content, but side content itself is expected nowadays, and is expected throughout the experience.

You can't really make an RPG like OG VII where you're shuffled along a plot for most of the game and then have some major sidequests near the end, though I wish that were still acceptable. But the standards are different now, and this isn't OG VII.
The original game still holds up to a majority of the audience so I don't agree with this take. I've never met anyone who can even agree that FF7 is linear (even though it technically is) in a objective sense because of how open the world is after Midgar.

And again, if we left Midgar there'd be so much story wise to engage with from Kalm, The Midgar Snake, Mythril Mines, Fort Condor, and Junon that you wouldn't have need for all this because it'd have so much content and even with being "linear" would be great.

I'd argue the only reason you can't make an RPG like OGVIII anymore is because we have to bloat and pad out Midgar to justify not getting out of midgar now.

The real reason this content exists is because there's not enough content in Midgar to justify it, so they're adding this stuff in. There was a game that was released that didn't need this kind of bloat. It's the original. And just saying this is "mandatory" does not make it so. In fact I'd say it's the opposite. It's only mandatory because people keep saying it is.

Maybe the real problem was taking the most linear part of the game (midgar) and keeping it confined to the only part of the game we're getting in part 1. But nah it's probably the times they are a changin'

I think there wasn't a good option to end part 1 on after Midgar without this taking another three years. What's the next pivotal area? Junon? The boat? Certainly not Mythril Mines or Ft. Condor.

I agree about the tangential story beats. I do think this is a feasible way to get players to go back into the world, into different sectors, etc. But I do think it's too organized. On some level, I don't want it to be checkbox questing. But this is just gaming today. Even The Witcher has a quest log.
Witcher has a quest log but is open world as well. You needed a quest log to keep track of things because of how much there is to do and see, with minor amounts of treasure hunts being the filler/grindy/minmaxing stuff for equipment and stuff.

We already know FF7 is chapter based, and we have no inkling of an idea of how progress will/won't transfer as of now. The last game to do full equipment transfers across sequels was like...the .hack games on PS2 Quarantine saga.

The closest after that was ME but only for story choices. So even that worries me.

The thing is that optional VII was linear but it still GAVE you freedom once you leave Midgar. You didn't have to run straight forward if you didn't want to, and that light illusion of freedom helped a lot with making the game feel like a world and not a highway.

If this game wasn't stopping right at the end of the one part of FFVII that DOES feel like a narrative highway and people had the ability to explore the world I don't think linearity complaints WOULD be super prominent. Midgar's story is generally a bit too urgent TO let the player stop and dick around a lot.
Just like I said, it wouldn't be needed because the open ended second half would allow for these types of quests to at least feel less tacked on, but all I'm going to be thinking about when playing this game is how I'm here doing rat quests and other silly chores when I could be going to Junon or something. It's a bummer.
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,934
From the blog post. Sounds like a bunch of filler quests.
So you're able to confirm your own preconception through three relatively nondescript sentences in this post? I could describe a number of WItcher 3 sidequests I've done from what I've played so far as things like "Geralt can kill a monster, Geralt solves a murder".

Do I think these will be WItcher 3 level sidequests? Hell no. Do I think they'll somehow hurt the game or are a sign that the game is "Filled with filler"? Also no.
 

Noctis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,363
New York City
I've never cared about sidequests in any game since I view them as pointless but that's a me problem. I just stick to the main story quests, the only game I've done side stuff was yakuza 0 caberet mini game but that's because that management was kinda addicting haha.
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,934
The original game still holds up to a majority of the audience so I don't agree with this take. I've never met anyone who can even agree that FF7 is linear (even though it technically is) in a objective sense because of how open the world is after Midgar.

And again, if we left Midgar there'd be so much story wise to engage with from Kalm, The Midgar Snake, Mythril Mines, Fort Condor, and Junon that you wouldn't have need for all this because it'd have so much content and even with being "linear" would be great.

I'd argue the only reason you can't make an RPG like OGVIII anymore is because we have to bloat and pad out Midgar to justify not getting out of midgar now.

The real reason this content exists is because there's not enough content in Midgar to justify it, so they're adding this stuff in. There was a game that was released that didn't need this kind of bloat. It's the original. And just saying this is "mandatory" does not make it so. In fact I'd say it's the opposite. It's only mandatory because people keep saying it is.

Maybe the real problem was taking the most linear part of the game (midgar) and keeping it confined to the only part of the game we're getting in part 1. But nah it's probably the times they are a changin'


Witcher has a quest log but is open world as well. You needed a quest log to keep track of things because of how much there is to do and see, with minor amounts of treasure hunts being the filler/grindy/minmaxing stuff for equipment and stuff.

We already know FF7 is chapter based, and we have no inkling of an idea of how progress will/won't transfer as of now. The last game to do full equipment transfers across sequels was like...the .hack games on PS2 Quarantine saga.

The closest after that was ME but only for story choices. So even that worries me.
So ultimately, this all comes down to "They shouldn't have made a full game out of Midgar"?
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
So ultimately, this all comes down to "They shouldn't have made a full game out of Midgar"?
Not if they needed this kind of quest design to make it worth it, no. This type of quest design is not needed in a well paced game like the original FF7. Thus why putting everything to a grinding halt in the tutorial area of the OG game is a bad design decision in every respect in my eyes.
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,934
Not if they needed this kind of quest design to make it worth it, no. This type of quest design is not needed in a well paced game like the original FF7. Thus why putting everything to a grinding halt in the tutorial area of the OG game is a bad design decision in every respect in my eyes.
SO you're against the very concept of this game in general. ANd everything you're seeing you're going to interpret in a negative context because of that?
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,741
The original game still holds up to a majority of the audience so I don't agree with this take. I've never met anyone who can even agree that FF7 is linear (even though it technically is) in a objective sense because of how open the world is after Midgar.

And again, if we left Midgar there'd be so much story wise to engage with from Kalm, The Midgar Snake, Mythril Mines, Fort Condor, and Junon that you wouldn't have need for all this because it'd have so much content and even with being "linear" would be great.

I'd argue the only reason you can't make an RPG like OGVIII anymore is because we have to bloat and pad out Midgar to justify not getting out of midgar now.

The real reason this content exists is because there's not enough content in Midgar to justify it, so they're adding this stuff in. There was a game that was released that didn't need this kind of bloat. It's the original. And just saying this is "mandatory" does not make it so. In fact I'd say it's the opposite. It's only mandatory because people keep saying it is.

Maybe the real problem was taking the most linear part of the game (midgar) and keeping it confined to the only part of the game we're getting in part 1. But nah it's probably the times they are a changin'


Witcher has a quest log but is open world as well. You needed a quest log to keep track of things because of how much there is to do and see, with minor amounts of treasure hunts being the filler/grindy/minmaxing stuff for equipment and stuff.

We already know FF7 is chapter based, and we have no inkling of an idea of how progress will/won't transfer as of now. The last game to do full equipment transfers across sequels was like...the .hack games on PS2 Quarantine saga.

The closest after that was ME but only for story choices. So even that worries me.


Just like I said, it wouldn't be needed because the open ended second half would allow for these types of quests to at least feel less tacked on, but all I'm going to be thinking about when playing this game is how I'm here doing rat quests and other silly chores when I could be going to Junon or something. It's a bummer.

White Knight Chronicles II carries all your equipment from the first game as well. It's a pretty direct sequel, though, picks up exactly where the first one left off, but that's also precisely the case with VIIR. The issue here is that it'll definitely be a cross gen thing, but with PS5 being backwards compatible, that will likely not be a huge problem.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,484
Just like I said, it wouldn't be needed because the open ended second half would allow for these types of quests to at least feel less tacked on, but all I'm going to be thinking about when playing this game is how I'm here doing rat quests and other silly chores when I could be going to Junon or something. It's a bummer.

Agreed. Junon, Costa Del Sol, the Gold Saucer...I don't know why anyone would want to spend a bunch of time in ugly metal slums when there's a whole world of cool places we could be visiting instead.
 

Kromeo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,828
Is Cloud the only one who has visible materia in his weapon? And do weapon models actually change, I don't think I've seen anything other than buster sword