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snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
10,354
All I ask for with the sidequests is if they are like XV that I don't get punished for not doing them.

If you don't do SQ in Nier Automata you get way underlevelled in route C, which I hated. Original FFVII didn't mandate sidequests either, so I hope this stuff is purely optional (as a 'side quest' should be) and doesn't leave you struggling to do mainline content later on. If that's the case I'm not that offended by them, I knew they'd be in it anyway
 

PAFenix

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Nov 21, 2019
14,671
FFXIV has Ishikawa, who has lifted up a lot of writing in the game starting with her Dark Knight quests and culminating in Shadowbringers. They also have Yoshi-P who has proven himself time and again to be an extremely talented and engaged product manager and producer who knows how to manage his projects well.

I love FFXIV but aside from some of the few chain ones most of the story beats for the side content is pretty dry, with things like the Manderville quests and trial unlocks being the highlights of their respective expansion.

It's not the same team as FFXV I believe though. And design mentality across a company is very much a unified front in most ways, which is how they keep teams compartmentalized to work on content and be able to bring them to and from supporting other games by other teams in the staff. That being said, games tend to follow their predecessors, and like I said before, happy to be wrong on this one.



I'd argue if they did more than Midgar and expanded on more of the tangential story beats from the original game you wouldn't need "side content" in this format but I lost that battle a long time ago.

True, I will concede that when I think of good side-stories in XIV, I'm mostly thinking of a lot of the job quests. I've kind of blotted out the usual Help This NPC quests. XD Also good point on team make-up. Just how I have no reason to believe it's the exact same team as XV, I also have no reason to believe they wouldn't bring in people who worked on their previous games to help out.

Except that my skepticism is then reframed as trolling.

This is also ignoring that I never said it's got "hundreds of sidequests" and simply pointed out that these quests existing in general is a detriment to the pacing and story of the original game.

You're telling me to look at the info that I'm not agreeing with (The forced additions of characters from Nomura, the reframing of narrative, the changing to characters writing and story plot beats and game structure by locking it into Midgar) and be hopeful, but the flaw of that perspective is that I don't see merit to what they're doing with FF7. For me to be "hopeful" I have to see the additions and trailers as you do. While some people look at this content and go "look how faithful they're being" I look at the content and see all the changes for the worse sans a few. That's why my skepticism and "conjecture" will never be on the same grounds as yours because your optimism is based on literally the same basis my dissenting opinions are.

Not that my opinion matters though, it'll sell millions and my opinion will ultimately mean nothing.

Is there a reason the new Soldier (I'm assuming this is who you're referring to) is something that feels forced? As someone who didn't even realize there were other Soldiers in the original game when I first played it (I just thought they were random Shinra grunts), I'm glad to see someone other than Zack or Sephiroth show up and be named. Makes Soldier feel like an actual division of the military.

As for the reframing, I feel like this just falls under personal taste for every player. I saw you mention the ghosts before, so I'm guessing you meant the shadow/smokey things in some of the trailers? I know there were ghosts in the Train Graveyard. I personally thought it was neat if they reframed those to give an actual explanation to their existence (aside from just random monsters). Souls from the lifestream mad that the land around Midgar is literally dead from Mako extraction? That would be a cool side-effect that's being expanded upon. Granted, not every little thing needs an explanation either. Square will need to be careful with that.

Edit: Reading a post of yours shortly after I posted this and I think you more or less answered your view on Midgar feeling padded out. Don't need to repeat yourself for that XD
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
14,741
I've never cared about sidequests in any game since I view them as pointless but that's a me problem. I just stick to the main story quests, the only game I've done side stuff was yakuza 0 caberet mini game but that's because that management was kinda addicting haha.


I WANNA BE YOUR GIIIRRLLLLL WOOOOOO

God, Cabaret Club Czar is so good.
 

Arion

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,807
So you're able to confirm your own preconception through three relatively nondescript sentences in this post? I could describe a number of WItcher 3 sidequests I've done from what I've played so far as things like "Geralt can kill a monster, Geralt solves a murder".

Do I think these will be WItcher 3 level sidequests? Hell no. Do I think they'll somehow hurt the game or are a sign that the game is "Filled with filler"? Also no.
I would say they are pretty descriptive. Seems like the sidequests will be short "kill X things" or "fetch x thing" type quests to pad out the game's length. Not sure what witcher 3 has to do with this. That game also has a bunch very formula driven filler quests.
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,945
I would say they are pretty descriptive. Seems like the sidequests will be short "kill X things" or "fetch x thing" type quests to pad out the game's length. Not sure what witcher 3 has to do with this. That game also has a bunch very formula driven filler quests.
See, the phrase "filled with filler" implies to me that the game will be lacking in content aside from these types of quests. "Filled with filler" implies that the filler is going to be the main thrust of the game. Is that not what you were implying?

Because optional side content existing in an RPG, the genre in which such content pretty much an expectation, doesn't scream "Filled with filler". Especially not when we've seen one chapter having a grand total of six side quests.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,720
See, the phrase "filled with filler" implies to me that the game will be lacking in content aside from these types of quests. "Filled with filler" implies that the filler is going to be the main thrust of the game. Is that not what you were implying?

Because optional side content existing in an RPG, the genre in which such content pretty much an expectation, doesn't scream "Filled with filler". Especially not when we've seen one chapter having a grand total of six side quests.

I don't think that's necessarily the implication. The issue more feels that they were like "WE NEEDED TO FOCUS EXCLUSIVELY ON MIDGAR TO FLESH IT OUT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE" yet it's seeming like they added virtually no really important new content and the story beats are largely the same. Essentially it's starting to seem like a mildly drawn-out version of the original Midgar story with a bunch of mediocre side missions stapled onto it to serve as "content" and extend the playtime to a "full-length RPG" level.

That's why people are calling it filler, because they made a big deal about how they HAD to stick exclusively to Midgar but nothing we've been shown thus far really justifies that excuse.
 

Arion

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,807
See, the phrase "filled with filler" implies to me that the game will be lacking in content aside from these types of quests. "Filled with filler" implies that the filler is going to be the main thrust of the game. Is that not what you were implying?

Because optional side content existing in an RPG, the genre in which such content pretty much an expectation, doesn't scream "Filled with filler". Especially not when we've seen one chapter having a grand total of six side quests.

No, that is not what I am implying. Game will probably remake that stuff from the original game and the rest will be padded with filler. And it's possible to have meaningful side quests in an RPG eg Mankind Divided, but I doubt FF7R will have them.
 

Euler007

Member
Jan 10, 2018
5,045
And...preordered digital deluxe. Probably my only game purchase this year ahead of next gen (excluding PC games).
 

PAFenix

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Nov 21, 2019
14,671
I really doubt the game will have alternate outfits tbh. I dunno really why but I think SE will want to establish the new remake designs as the only ones going forward.

See I thought the opposite. My first thought when they showed the redesigns was so that they can sell the old costumes back.

Tbh, I wouldn't be totally against this. It might shut up the "omg censorshiiiiiiiiiiip" crowd.
 

Niks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,299
Also:

022.jpg


023.jpg

Gotta say, not a fan of the big-ass foreheads. Is it supposed to be a callback to the og character models?

Anyway, game is looking gorgeous, and I'm looking forward to the side quests.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
SO you're against the very concept of this game in general. ANd everything you're seeing you're going to interpret in a negative context because of that?
I see your attempt at a gotcha, but you're still wrong.

You're going to assume everything I see is negative because of my bias instead of reasoning and context, which I've argued and elaborated on at length and explained in depth. I even conceded that things in the additions department were warranted like some of Hojo's dialogue that was leaked.

What I'm not going to concede is I'm down on this game from the start because that gives people an out to not warrant any dialogue about the design decisions of a deliberate "remake" of a game that was tightly paced and written in the first place. If the detractors defense was "They have an opportunity to flesh out midgar" and THIS is how they flesh out midgar, I will argue that aside from the Nomura OC and other spoiler content I won't go into here that it never warranted staying here in the first place.

The fact that the game is trying to justify itself being what it is does not then make me a downer because it chose to be such. It chose to limit to Midgar, so there should be content enough to justify it, if you have quest design like this, imo, you didn't justify it.

We have a remake of the game padding out the tutorial level of the original and padding itself with four tiered rat quests in order to justify its existence. Regardless of my take on staying in Midgar and leaving that is still bad design, and I would argue if they left Midgar they wouldn't need it. Instead of saying "I hate it because it's only midgar" I'm providing context for how this would not be "mandatory" if they went into the rest of the content the original game had, because that padding would be unnecessary.

White Knight Chronicles II carries all your equipment from the first game as well. It's a pretty direct sequel, though, picks up exactly where the first one left off, but that's also precisely the case with VIIR. The issue here is that it'll definitely be a cross gen thing, but with PS5 being backwards compatible, that will likely not be a huge problem.
Neat I had no idea about that. Here's hoping that's possible.

Agreed. Junon, Costa Del Sol, the Gold Saucer...I don't know why anyone would want to spend a bunch of time in ugly metal slums when there's a whole world of cool places we could be visiting instead.
The whole time you're chasing down someone in the slums you could be at fort condor minigames or shopping at Junon. Feels bad man.


Is there a reason the new Soldier (I'm assuming this is who you're referring to) is something that feels forced? As someone who didn't even realize there were other Soldiers in the original game when I first played it (I just thought they were random Shinra grunts), I'm glad to see someone other than Zack or Sephiroth show up and be named. Makes Soldier feel like an actual division of the military.

As for the reframing, I feel like this just falls under personal taste for every player. I saw you mention the ghosts before, so I'm guessing you meant the shadow/smokey things in some of the trailers? I know there were ghosts in the Train Graveyard. I personally thought it was neat if they reframed those to give an actual explanation to their existence (aside from just random monsters). Souls from the lifestream mad that the land around Midgar is literally dead from Mako extraction? That would be a cool side-effect that's being expanded upon. Granted, not every little thing needs an explanation either. Square will need to be careful with that.
The time spent building the new SOLDIER is time that could be focused on Turks instead and/or other plot lines in Midgar. Not to mention the fact that the character seems to be there to only be an antagonist for the player and not for the story. SOLDIER was a military regiment before that was always there and present across the game, across all 3 classes of the regiment. The only ones who were special were Sephiroth and Zack because they were "First Class/Best of the Best" at the time of the original game. They tried to recontextualize it since then but the problem with having a "new" named SOLDIER is now we have to question where his role in the rest of the events of the game are as named/individual SOLDIERs were something of a rarity in the original story. This also ignores the cringe that comes with him doing ollies on a motorcycle and feeling more like a KH character with his snark and "witty" banter versus a character there to fill a specific role in the overarching plot. Could be WRONG, but I see him as being another example of Shoehorned in character by Nomura just to have "drama" there when he needs it, instead of the character being anything special to the plot.

The ghosts and stuff in the Graveyard make sense, but we now have a heartless shadow tornado enveloping the Midgar building and that's just....stupid. Even for the original FF7 it's nonsense and the whole "Capitalized Name - Arbiters of Fate" battling "Those who try to change destiny" is some of the most childish drivel I've seen put into a game that kept a mostly coherent script despite its original localization.

The issue with them as well is that they're being forced to oppose Aeris, who before was just "a weird girl who could hear some voices" but because it's modern day and fiction has to be amped to 11 we now have spooky ghosts and such. It takes away from the existential dread of "the planet will slowly die and we'll kill ourselves trying to fight before then" by reframing it as "Kill the spoopy ghosts!"

Part of the narrative of the original was in the subtext and almost lovecraftian horror of WEAPON and the planet wanting to expel humanity, and WEAPON was the biggest reveal that the planet would fight back against it. Spirits and ghosts would be fine but with the enveloping the tower thing I have reason to believe they're going to be intrinsically tied to Sephiroth/Jenova/The Lifestream and it takes what was originally a more subtle approach to writing these themes to giving them tangible form to make them an opposition for visual effect.

tl;dr they're dumbing it down in a lot of ways and adding stuff that feelsl ike it's there because Nomura is directing versus being relevant to the plot or embellishing the existing scenario, minus a few things like Hojo mentioning Gast and Ifalna earlier which I believe is a good change and needed to be there to make sense for later plot beats.
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,945
I see your attempt at a gotcha, but you're still wrong.

You're going to assume everything I see is negative because of my bias instead of reasoning and context, which I've argued and elaborated on at length and explained in depth. I even conceded that things in the additions department were warranted like some of Hojo's dialogue that was leaked.

What I'm not going to concede is I'm down on this game from the start because that gives people an out to not warrant any dialogue about the design decisions of a deliberate "remake" of a game that was tightly paced and written in the first place. If the detractors defense was "They have an opportunity to flesh out midgar" and THIS is how they flesh out midgar, I will argue that aside from the Nomura OC and other spoiler content I won't go into here that it never warranted staying here in the first place.

The fact that the game is trying to justify itself being what it is does not then make me a downer because it chose to be such. It chose to limit to Midgar, so there should be content enough to justify it, if you have quest design like this, imo, you didn't justify it.

We have a remake of the game padding out the tutorial level of the original and padding itself with four tiered rat quests in order to justify its existence. Regardless of my take on staying in Midgar and leaving that is still bad design, and I would argue if they left Midgar they wouldn't need it. Instead of saying "I hate it because it's only midgar" I'm providing context for how this would not be "mandatory" if they went into the rest of the content the original game had, because that padding would be unnecessary.
It's not a gotcha. It's just what I see. You're using side content in an RPG, one of the modern requirements of the genres, as some kind of evidence that there's lacking story content. We have no evidence of that so I can only see it as cynicism for the sake of it because you don't like their choice to expand Midgar to a full game.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
It's not a gotcha. It's just what I see. You're using side content in an RPG, one of the modern requirements of the genres, as some kind of evidence that there's lacking story content. We have no evidence of that so I can only see it as cynicism for the sake of it because you don't like their choice to expand Midgar to a full game.
"Modern requirements of the genre." Just because people say it doesn't mean that's how it has to be.

Again FF7 didn't need it before, it wouldn't need it now if it was tight enough. You're also using the "people wold complain about it" even though people are complaining about it now. You're using scaremongering to justify lazy quest design in a game that shouldn't need this padding in the first place. And if the game DOES have enough story content this type of questing shouldn't be necessary because again, as I stated, it's not open world and is chapter based, meaning very set points of progression.

Regardless with the knowledge of the chapter structure from leaks and the knowledge of what's been added thus far, I will never concede that this is for the betterment of the story rather than so people can continue to circlejerk Midgar and also because Square has no idea what they're going to do with the rest of the game.

You can say my cynicism is "unwarranted" or that I have "no evidence" and that's fine. We'll see when the game comes out. Side content shouldn't have to take this form, and in the original game, it didn't have to. That's all I'll say on the matter now.
 

Gaia Lanzer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,670
The renders just made me wonder for the first time... Who accessorized Red? He has no opposable thumbs. Is Bugenhagen all about fashion?

Also:

022.jpg


023.jpg
Not a fan of either of them (what's with Square making these cute creatures with overly sized BIG HEADS? Reminds me of that Mog from FFXIII-2, *shudders*). Never been a fan of the more "kitty/doggy/foxy" take on Carbuncle. It always looked better as some strange unique, slightly lizard-animal thing, a lizard rabbit that hulks out into a scary creature:
latest
latest
latest
latest


Also never liked my baby chocobos to be real-life Chick size. To me, they gotta be the size of Bobby Corwen or Chicobos to "feel" right.
latest
latest


That's just my taste.

Eh these are still fetch quests.

Collect x things, kill y mosters etc...
See, if it came to fetching something, at least craft an interesting story around it. I'm saying it has to be the level of the main story, but something interesting. For example, use the basis of "finding a lost cat" and have Cloud and crew discover the cat is being chased by a pack of, say, Wild Fangs. They head off into somewhere maze-like (was going to say a sorta scrapyard, but Train Graveyard could work in this case). There are times you find that cat cornered by a Wild Fang and you defeat the enemy only for the cat to run away from you. All throughout this process, you get some good talking moments between the group regarding the situation, some quips and such. Eventually, you find the cat being cornered by the Alpha Fang and you have a small mini-boss battle, save the cat and then take it back to the owner. Something MORE than just "oh, there's a monster out in this area, defeat it for gil!" or "Collect x number of pelts/mandrake roots/Mythril ore and bring it back to me for a reward!"

Though that's not saying some fetch quests or mob quest don't have a place, you could do something interesting with them. Say you meet a person who is offering gil for you finding and using sense on specific enemies. You return to that person and collect your battle date. You find out that this person works for the Gold Saucer Battle Square and is dispatched to examine different creatures that would be perfect for combatants to fight against in the Battle Square. Y'know, GO THE EXTRA MILE and make something INTERESTING out of something so simple.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
No side quests? "FFVIIR is too linear!" & "There's nothing to DO in Midgar!!!"
Side quests? "Square are con artists! Padding!"
It depends on the side quests, though. Not all side quests are created equal, and I think most people loath fetch quests that are just too basic. Most people want the writers of the game to at least put effort in side quests.
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,329
Posted this in the other ff7 discussion thread


I saw the playstation website overview of FF7 and I'm not liking what I'm seeing

Mercenary cookie cutter side quests like looking for a cat as an example

new materia put behind some kid that gives side quests

these are the last things I would want in a ff7
 

Socivol

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,671
Is Cloud the only one who has visible materia in his weapon? And do weapon models actually change, I don't think I've seen anything other than buster sword
Nope! All of the weapons have materia slots. If you look at the trailers you can see Barrett has one in his gun and Tifa has a yellow materia in one of her gloves as well. The models do change, if you check out the pictures in the link you will see he has the bat, Barrett has a different weapon in the Theme trailer as well.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
Posted this in the other ff7 discussion thread


I saw the playstation website overview of FF7 and I'm not liking what I'm seeing

Mercenary cookie cutter side quests like looking for a cat as an example

new materia put behind some kid that gives side quests

these are the last things I would want in a ff7
Apparently "modern quest design" dictates we have this so you have to accept it, sorry.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
If it's as bad as I imagine it being when I play it I won't be buying part 2
I'll give Part 1 a chance because I have to put my money where my mouth is and I have to eat crow if I'm wrong. I'm not one that's too pompous and full of myself to not admit when I get a take wrong, as I've done it plenty of times in the past. But yeah if it's as bad as Crisis Core I'll be upset that I have to sit through this slog before we get to the actual meat and potatoes of FF7.

I just...don't think gaming has to be this way but people who say it does have to be this way enable it to be more this way in the future. FF7 didn't need grindy sidequests originally. It sucks that people think it does need them now. :/
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,945
"Modern requirements of the genre." Just because people say it doesn't mean that's how it has to be.

Again FF7 didn't need it before, it wouldn't need it now if it was tight enough. You're also using the "people wold complain about it" even though people are complaining about it now. You're using scaremongering to justify lazy quest design in a game that shouldn't need this padding in the first place. And if the game DOES have enough story content this type of questing shouldn't be necessary because again, as I stated, it's not open world and is chapter based, meaning very set points of progression.

Regardless with the knowledge of the chapter structure from leaks and the knowledge of what's been added thus far, I will never concede that this is for the betterment of the story rather than so people can continue to circlejerk Midgar and also because Square has no idea what they're going to do with the rest of the game.

You can say my cynicism is "unwarranted" or that I have "no evidence" and that's fine. We'll see when the game comes out. Side content shouldn't have to take this form, and in the original game, it didn't have to. That's all I'll say on the matter now.
I didn't say anything you said was unwarranted. You have a warrant to feel however you feel. But the fact that you're not just expressing concerns about the quest design but are instead leaping to link that to the entire concept of the game as a whole leads me to believe that there's more at play to your arguments than just "the quest design looks rough".
 

Kromeo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,867
Fetch quests were inevitable the second they decided to stretch Midgar out into a full game, I just hope they don't mess with the game's difficulty like Xenoblade. I still have worries about this game's length but we'll know soon enough
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
I didn't say anything you said was unwarranted. You have a warrant to feel however you feel. But the fact that you're not just expressing concerns about the quest design but are instead leaping to link that to the entire concept of the game as a whole leads me to believe that there's more at play to your arguments than just "the quest design looks rough".
This game has the misfortune of calling itself a remake to a game that was very good in the beginning.

While some of the critique may be unfair to some, the game has to justify why we're NOT getting the main parts of the story of the game and are instead stuck in Midgar.

To that end anything like this and the other inserts like ghosts circling he Midgar tower will be met with skepticism, because someone playing a "remake" of FF7 is going to be wondering when they're going to get to the best parts of the story. Except you don't, because we're needlessly futzing around in the tutorial area.

So the concept of the game as a whole will be under scrutiny because the concept of the game is "We're cutting off 80% of the game to sell you the 20% and incentivize preorder bonuses and sell you multiple copies as we piecemeal you the stuff you wanted in a remake." The whole argument against people like myself being detractors of Midgar Only is that they're going to flesh out Midgar and its players. But all I'm seeing is a bunch of bloat personally, and that bloat is keeping me from the "good" parts of FF7.

Anyways I've clogged up the thread enough. I guess we'll see soon how it all pans out.
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,329
I don't mind quests that can be ignored, but if they put story progression behind completing a certain amount of quests, or the best materia behind quest grinding that's a big no
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,741
I guess I'm just being optimistic for no particular reason, but when I see multi part rat quest, my first thought isn't "so I have to kill a couple of rats in five different spots", but further escalations of the battle with bigger and bigger rats, culminating in a boss fight.

If FFXV is any indication, I'm likely wrong on this. But on the other hand, some of the optional dungeons in FFXV (that had quests tied to them as well) were kind of amazing. "Get me this shit for your car", and you go down a complex dungeon and fight a unique cool boss to get that car part as a reward.

Hell, I had to go back to get the car part because I just did that dungeon exploring by myself earlier.

So who knows. Could go either way, or could even go both ways, like FFXV, which had both cool dungeons and shitty fetch quests.

I'm pretty sure when people talk about FFXV's shitty quests, they're not thinking of Balouve Mines, or Pitioss Ruins. They're just thinking of stuff as bad as "Cid wants you to kill some dogs while I fix your car". Which is, ironically, a main quest.
 

AllMight1

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,719
This game has the misfortune of calling itself a remake to a game that was very good in the beginning.

While some of the critique may be unfair to some, the game has to justify why we're NOT getting the main parts of the story of the game and are instead stuck in Midgar.

To that end anything like this and the other inserts like ghosts circling he Midgar tower will be met with skepticism, because someone playing a "remake" of FF7 is going to be wondering when they're going to get to the best parts of the story. Except you don't, because we're needlessly futzing around in the tutorial area.

So the concept of the game as a whole will be under scrutiny because the concept of the game is "We're cutting off 80% of the game to sell you the 20% and incentivize preorder bonuses and sell you multiple copies as we piecemeal you the stuff you wanted in a remake." The whole argument against people like myself being detractors of Midgar Only is that they're going to flesh out Midgar and its players. But all I'm seeing is a bunch of bloat personally, and that bloat is keeping me from the "good" parts of FF7.

Anyways I've clogged up the thread enough. I guess we'll see soon how it all pans out.

How many parts do you personally see them doing?
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,741
i'm not excited for summons at all, after the whole ride fest of Kingdom Hearts 3.
Attractions are trash, indeed, but they took the feedback on this to heart. On Critical you can equip an ability that eliminates them and turns them into Form Changes instead. I actually just got a trophy for beating an enemy with an attraction for the first time last night, in the very final world. Because that one is forced in the story.

The actual summons of KH III aren't very fun, but they're not THAT bad either. Just too OP.

But what they've shown of summons in FFVIIR seems pretty fun to me. They do their thing, like other party members, but you can also issue direct orders using your character's ATB. Nothing too distracting.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,720
i'm not excited for summons at all, after the whole ride fest of Kingdom Hearts 3.

I wish the summons in this game just worked like the ones from VII - big explosive silly cutscenes. Having summons show up in the battlefield and dick around on their own for 30 seconds is so bland to me. I want crazy planet-destroying super moves, not "Ifrit punches a guy a couple times and then throws a fireball", y'know?
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
How many parts do you personally see them doing?
If Midgar is only 1, we're looking at the VERY least 3 more to complete the game unless some crazy advancements are made in how their pipeline works and that they already have figured out how to handle the "open world" moving forward in the game.

With all the rest of the content in the game if they DO seek to "expand" as much as they've done Midgar we're looking at at least 4 parts from where I'm sitting.

I wish the summons in this game just worked like the ones from VII - big explosive silly cutscenes. Having summons show up in the battlefield and dick around on their own for 30 seconds is so bland to me. I want crazy planet-destroying super moves, not "Ifrit punches a guy a couple times and then throws a fireball", y'know?
That was one of my favorite parts of Crisis Core. The summon FMVs. Seeing HD Ifrit zoom across the screen like the OG was tasty
 

PAFenix

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Nov 21, 2019
14,671
The time spent building the new SOLDIER is time that could be focused on Turks instead and/or other plot lines in Midgar. Not to mention the fact that the character seems to be there to only be an antagonist for the player and not for the story. SOLDIER was a military regiment before that was always there and present across the game, across all 3 classes of the regiment. The only ones who were special were Sephiroth and Zack because they were "First Class/Best of the Best" at the time of the original game. They tried to recontextualize it since then but the problem with having a "new" named SOLDIER is now we have to question where his role in the rest of the events of the game are as named/individual SOLDIERs were something of a rarity in the original story. This also ignores the cringe that comes with him doing ollies on a motorcycle and feeling more like a KH character with his snark and "witty" banter versus a character there to fill a specific role in the overarching plot. Could be WRONG, but I see him as being another example of Shoehorned in character by Nomura just to have "drama" there when he needs it, instead of the character being anything special to the plot.

The ghosts and stuff in the Graveyard make sense, but we now have a heartless shadow tornado enveloping the Midgar building and that's just....stupid. Even for the original FF7 it's nonsense and the whole "Capitalized Name - Arbiters of Fate" battling "Those who try to change destiny" is some of the most childish drivel I've seen put into a game that kept a mostly coherent script despite its original localization.

The issue with them as well is that they're being forced to oppose Aeris, who before was just "a weird girl who could hear some voices" but because it's modern day and fiction has to be amped to 11 we now have spooky ghosts and such. It takes away from the existential dread of "the planet will slowly die and we'll kill ourselves trying to fight before then" by reframing it as "Kill the spoopy ghosts!"

Part of the narrative of the original was in the subtext and almost lovecraftian horror of WEAPON and the planet wanting to expel humanity, and WEAPON was the biggest reveal that the planet would fight back against it. Spirits and ghosts would be fine but with the enveloping the tower thing I have reason to believe they're going to be intrinsically tied to Sephiroth/Jenova/The Lifestream and it takes what was originally a more subtle approach to writing these themes to giving them tangible form to make them an opposition for visual effect.

tl;dr they're dumbing it down in a lot of ways and adding stuff that feelsl ike it's there because Nomura is directing versus being relevant to the plot or embellishing the existing scenario, minus a few things like Hojo mentioning Gast and Ifalna earlier which I believe is a good change and needed to be there to make sense for later plot beats.

Hopefully they've given enough time to the Turks that adding a new char is fine. But I can see the concern. My wife has mentioned "Still no Elena......" during the last two trailers.

Even if Solder 1st Class was "best of the best" I still found it odd that Zack & Sephiroth were the only named ones. Granted, I don't need an entire enlistment dossier, but it would be nice to see more of them. Have they even verified which Class this new guy even is?

I really hope they remember that WEAPON was not tied to Sephiroth in anyway. They fought for the Planet and got in the party's way because, second to Sephiroth which they couldn't reach, they targeted the biggest threat they could perceive. Mankind.

As for embellishing on Aerith, I guess I've been fine with it thus far. I felt like Aerith learned a lot so fast in the later part of the og game and then she suddenly "just knew" what she had to do involving Holy and White Materia.

Added spoilers since I'm not sure on the rules on talking about future plot points in relation to the older game and stuff not shown in the trailers thus far.
 

Gaia Lanzer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,670
I'll give Part 1 a chance because I have to put my money where my mouth is and I have to eat crow if I'm wrong. I'm not one that's too pompous and full of myself to not admit when I get a take wrong, as I've done it plenty of times in the past. But yeah if it's as bad as Crisis Core I'll be upset that I have to sit through this slog before we get to the actual meat and potatoes of FF7.

I just...don't think gaming has to be this way but people who say it does have to be this way enable it to be more this way in the future. FF7 didn't need grindy sidequests originally. It sucks that people think it does need them now. :/
That's how I see it as well. It doesn't have to be this way, people have fooled (or been conditioned) to think he HAS to be this way. It doesn't, but the more people are lead to believe this the more the industry will roll 'em out like this because they won't have the need to do anything better or more than the standard dictates, especially when people believe the standard is the "way it is and should always be". I think games like The Witcher series are exceptions. I'd love for the FF series to go more that route with quests, or hell, remember back when they did some good shit with games like Chrono Trigger. Remember meaty side quests that had unique stories/locations/bosses/dialog JUST for said quests?

I'm also with you guys regarding Part 1. This game's gonna be the make or break game of my FFVII Remake experience.