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What should happen to Aerith in the FFVIIR saga?

  • She should die, it's her destiny

    Votes: 395 57.7%
  • She should live, fuck destiny

    Votes: 289 42.3%

  • Total voters
    684
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Razorrin

Member
Nov 7, 2017
5,236
the HELP Menu.
Yeah i agree, but when it cut to Marlene and our characters we don't see the lights.
In Dirge of Cerberus we see that the lifestream is much bigger than what it represents what we see on this planet. We see what happens when a planet has reached the end of its life, the lifestream basically cuts it losses, abandon the planets and shoots into the sky, and we see similar lifestreams traveling in the same direction. So yeah we do need more of an explanation.
Fair enough, and I hope that explanation is an awesome one! There is a ton of evidence that most Planets are living organisms in the FFVII universe, hell, who's to say JENOVA wasn't herself a planet that just ate other planets to live and exist?

I eagerly look forward to more interesting lore to be espoused, there is a ton of wiggle room for expanded circumstances!
 

LiK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,048
Hell yea, after 2 hours of retrying, finished the final combat trial. Tough but fun af.
 

Zache

Unshakable Resolve
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,776
Just finished this today. I thought people were exaggerating about the game being hard to follow but the last chapter really doesn't make any sense if you don't have any familiarity with FFVII. God help you if you're so new to gaming you don't even know who Sephiroth is.
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,120
As someone who hasn't played FFVII (but knows a decent amount about it through cultural osmosis), this question cuts to the core of what bothers me the most about the ending.

I can see the metastructure of it and how that might tickle the fancy of some, but none of this matters to the characters at all. They don't know what "destiny" the planet wants, and that destiny literally saves their lives multiple times immediately before they decide to beat the shit out of it. What's the point of doing this? The game struggles to justify why any of this should matter to the characters, who are our viewpoint into the story. None of them can explain what is happening or why without the puppeteer hand of the writer making characters spout info they shouldn't know.

Then the end happens and a bunch of time is spent showing me someone who has not appeared, been named, or been discussed in the story at all to that point, and then something happens that I seem to be expected to care about, except the characters don't know it's happening and I don't have any way of knowing what it means. Why should this matter to me?

Uneven as things were, I liked a lot about the game's story up until Chapter 18. The climax feels entirely disconnected from the personal struggles the characters faced to get there, and the problems they had been dealing with. I don't see why it was necessary to go that way if they wanted to break with the past.
The characters care about replacing the whispers' will with their own because they want to be in charge of their own destiny. Think about Barret's comments about being destined for a bleak future, or Aerith having premonitions about the future but only vaguely understanding why. They don't know exactly what will happen; they just know it could be bad, and they want to have agency to avoid it. I think that's the emotional thrust behind their unity in overcoming these whispers - whispers that sometimes help and sometimes hinder but that are ultimately depriving them of deciding their own destiny.
 

ekka4shiki

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,951
Just finished this today. I thought people were exaggerating about the game being hard to follow but the last chapter really doesn't make any sense if you don't have any familiarity with FFVII. God help you if you're so new to gaming you don't even know who Sephiroth is.

Newcomers probably will still know he's the big bad guy, with the way he's potrayed in the game. They will connect the dots and assume that this guy probably have some past issue with MC. But yeah, that's about it

For actual details wait 3 years or feed yourself some OG FFVII spoiler.
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,120
Just finished this today. I thought people were exaggerating about the game being hard to follow but the last chapter really doesn't make any sense if you don't have any familiarity with FFVII. God help you if you're so new to gaming you don't even know who Sephiroth is.
If you were going in blind, and Remake was your first encounter with the FF7 universe, you'd at least know by the end of Remake that:

- Sephiroth was a legendary Soldier who was thought to be dead for years

- Sephiroth has God-like powers that the party doesn't understand at this point

- Sephiroth tramautized Cloud by killing his family and massacreing his hometown

- Aerith can hear the souls in the lifestream, and they say Sephiroth is an existential threat to all

Between that and stuff like the premonitions, and Sephiroth killing Shinra when they needed him to clear their names, and then nearly killing Barret, and siccing a Jenova form on them... I can see why the heroes would recognize Sephiroth is a threat, even if they're not sure what he is at this point. And there is enough here to support that Cloud knows firsthand that Sephiroth is evil.

Only odd thing is, Remake has scenes showing Tifa mourning her slain father and then carrying Sephiroth's sword. In the original, she witnessed him kill her dad. So you'd think she would recognize him here, yet she doesn't.

Could be explained in a variety of ways, but we will have to wait and see what they do.
 

NukeProfessor

Member
Apr 30, 2020
73
As someone who hasn't played FFVII (but knows a decent amount about it through cultural osmosis), this question cuts to the core of what bothers me the most about the ending.

I can see the metastructure of it and how that might tickle the fancy of some, but none of this matters to the characters at all. They don't know what "destiny" the planet wants, and that destiny literally saves their lives multiple times immediately before they decide to beat the shit out of it. What's the point of doing this? The game struggles to justify why any of this should matter to the characters, who are our viewpoint into the story. None of them can explain what is happening or why without the puppeteer hand of the writer making characters spout info they shouldn't know.

Then the end happens and a bunch of time is spent showing me someone who has not appeared, been named, or been discussed in the story at all to that point, and then something happens that I seem to be expected to care about, except the characters don't know it's happening and I don't have any way of knowing what it means. Why should this matter to me?

Uneven as things were, I liked a lot about the game's story up until Chapter 18. The climax feels entirely disconnected from the personal struggles the characters faced to get there, and the problems they had been dealing with. I don't see why it was necessary to go that way if they wanted to break with the past.
The party knows that the whispers will at least sacrifice 50k people to be crushed under a plate, if that is destiny's chosen course. They are dipicted as time janitors. The souls of those that were and are to come keeping history on course. For me as soon as the whispers let Rude drop the plate, I knew they had to go. Plus they didn't now they were going to be fighting a Weapon until they went through the portal, chasing Sephiroth. And each had their reasons for wanting to do that.
 

Hikari

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,685
Elysium
Anyone wonder why Aerith scolds Cloud if you get her worst dress? She obviously picks it herself.. does Cloud pay off her other dresses? In the plain dress scene she tells Cloud "I know super bad right but I put a lot of work into this! Did you put any work into this?" And here's where i'm kinda stuck lol. If we do really pay her dress then are we going to assume the Sector 5 slum people have the amount of money for a red dress? I noticed Cloud says he does odd jobs for a living and Aerith says she commands a good salary at one point but.... each dress costs 1 million from the Colosseum plus wtv you make in the sidequests right? Or is this just a reference to OG game where Cloud picks his own dress as recommended by Aerith.

It's a pretty confusing scene to me because it implies that you really do pay off her dress with more money than just the Colosseum money.
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,120
Anyone wonder why Aerith scolds Cloud if you get her worst dress? She obviously picks it herself.. does Cloud pay off her other dresses? In the plain dress scene she tells Cloud "I know super bad right but I put a lot of work into this! Did you put any work into this?" And here's where i'm kinda stuck lol. If we do really pay her dress then are we going to assume the Sector 5 slum people have the amount of money for a red dress? I noticed Cloud says he does odd jobs for a living and Aerith says she commands a good salary at one point but.... each dress costs 1 million from the Colosseum plus wtv you make in the sidequests right? Or is this just a reference to OG game where Cloud picks his own dress as recommended by Aerith.

It's a pretty confusing scene to me because it implies that you really do pay off her dress with more money than just the Colosseum money.
You're not paying for the dress in any scenario. It's always paid for entirely with Madam M's million-gil prize. If I had to guess a story reason why it changes, maybe Madam M is less frugal with the dress if you have a better reputation from your work in the slums (since it's determined by how many Ch. 8 quests you complete). *shrugs*
 

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,591
Anyone wonder why Aerith scolds Cloud if you get her worst dress? She obviously picks it herself.. does Cloud pay off her other dresses? In the plain dress scene she tells Cloud "I know super bad right but I put a lot of work into this! Did you put any work into this?" And here's where i'm kinda stuck lol. If we do really pay her dress then are we going to assume the Sector 5 slum people have the amount of money for a red dress? I noticed Cloud says he does odd jobs for a living and Aerith says she commands a good salary at one point but.... each dress costs 1 million from the Colosseum plus wtv you make in the sidequests right? Or is this just a reference to OG game where Cloud picks his own dress as recommended by Aerith.

It's a pretty confusing scene to me because it implies that you really do pay off her dress with more money than just the Colosseum money.
When you talk to Madam M about the dress she mentions how much work you put into the community so it has to do with that. I'm guessing when she goes shopping for the clothes, your reputation determines who gives her a good deal or better dress, etc.
 

Hikari

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,685
Elysium
You're not paying for the dress in any scenario. It's always paid for entirely with Madam M's million-gil prize. If I had to guess a story reason why it changes, maybe Madam M is less frugal with the dress if you have a better reputation from your work in the slums (since it's determined by how many Ch. 8 quests you complete). *shrugs*

Are you sure? Why specifically single out Cloud as not doing any work in the slums to get her the gorgeous dress? It really feels like it's not just the 1 million gil cause of this scene. Keep in mind this is before you meet Madam M so it would not be possible for her to hear about what you did in the slums and plus she's a really rich lady part of a trio so I doubt she even cares about the slums... unless I missed some dialogue somewhere.

When you talk to Madam M about the dress she mentions how much work you put into the community so it has to do with that. I'm guessing when she goes shopping for the clothes, your reputation determines who gives her a good deal or better dress, etc.

Well the thing is.... you just fight at a colosseum and do nothing else for it. She always says she's going to put Aerith into a drop dead gorgeous dress and that's clearly not the case when you get the plain dress scene where Aerith specifically singles you out for not doing anything to help the sector 5 slums. Honestly, it's just weird.
 

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
As someone who hasn't played FFVII (but knows a decent amount about it through cultural osmosis), this question cuts to the core of what bothers me the most about the ending.

I can see the metastructure of it and how that might tickle the fancy of some, but none of this matters to the characters at all. They don't know what "destiny" the planet wants, and that destiny literally saves their lives multiple times immediately before they decide to beat the shit out of it. What's the point of doing this? The game struggles to justify why any of this should matter to the characters, who are our viewpoint into the story. None of them can explain what is happening or why without the puppeteer hand of the writer making characters spout info they shouldn't know.

Then the end happens and a bunch of time is spent showing me someone who has not appeared, been named, or been discussed in the story at all to that point, and then something happens that I seem to be expected to care about, except the characters don't know it's happening and I don't have any way of knowing what it means. Why should this matter to me?

Uneven as things were, I liked a lot about the game's story up until Chapter 18. The climax feels entirely disconnected from the personal struggles the characters faced to get there, and the problems they had been dealing with. I don't see why it was necessary to go that way if they wanted to break with the past.

If you listen to Nomura, Remake is meant to be a semi-encouragement to go play the original.
 

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
Just finished this today. I thought people were exaggerating about the game being hard to follow but the last chapter really doesn't make any sense if you don't have any familiarity with FFVII. God help you if you're so new to gaming you don't even know who Sephiroth is.

It's not even Chapter 18 that's hard to follow but the last half of Chapter 18 once Sephiroth shows up at the end of the higway to have a required final boss battle.
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,120
Are you sure? Why specifically single out Cloud as not doing any work in the slums to get her the gorgeous dress? It really feels like it's not just the 1 million gil cause of this scene. Keep in mind this is before you meet Madam M so it would not be possible for her to hear about what you did in the slums and plus she's a really rich lady part of a trio so I doubt she even cares about the slums... unless I missed some dialogue somewhere.



Well the thing is.... you just fight at a colosseum and do nothing else for it. She always says she's going to put Aerith into a drop dead gorgeous dress and that's clearly not the case when you get the plain dress scene where Aerith specifically singles you out for not doing anything to help the sector 5 slums. Honestly, it's just weird.
Aerith singles you out because it would've been your choice to retire early in Ch. 8 rather than put in work helping the community. At no point does anyone say you're paying for the dress; Madam M says she's paying for it with the million gil you earned her at the Coliseum. She does, however, observe whether you've been putting in work in the community. The dress she gets could be her judgment of you as a result, or the deals she can get because of the reputation you forged, or both.
 

RestEerie

Banned
Aug 20, 2018
13,618
Finally platinumed it as of this moment.

Sephiroth Hard mode and Bahamut + Ifrit hard are not the most difficult boss in the game.

It is the fucking Jules pullup challenge.
 

Quinton

Specialist at TheGamer / Reviewer at RPG Site
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,255
Midgar, With Love
Official Staff Communication
Ahem, is this thing on?


Since we're sailing past the 20k post mark here, who would like to make a sequel thread? And who among ye has ideas for clever thread titles?
 

NukeProfessor

Member
Apr 30, 2020
73
Anyone wonder why Aerith scolds Cloud if you get her worst dress? She obviously picks it herself.. does Cloud pay off her other dresses? In the plain dress scene she tells Cloud "I know super bad right but I put a lot of work into this! Did you put any work into this?" And here's where i'm kinda stuck lol. If we do really pay her dress then are we going to assume the Sector 5 slum people have the amount of money for a red dress? I noticed Cloud says he does odd jobs for a living and Aerith says she commands a good salary at one point but.... each dress costs 1 million from the Colosseum plus wtv you make in the sidequests right? Or is this just a reference to OG game where Cloud picks his own dress as recommended by Aerith.

It's a pretty confusing scene to me because it implies that you really do pay off her dress with more money than just the Colosseum money.
You are remembering the scene wrong, she says she feels bad that the dress is so poor because Cloud put alot of work into it. And then asks did he put alot of work.
 

Quinton

Specialist at TheGamer / Reviewer at RPG Site
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,255
Midgar, With Love

Razorrin

Member
Nov 7, 2017
5,236
the HELP Menu.
Can You Hear The Cry Of The Purists?

I kid don't masamune me
From the direction of discussion in this thread, I'm definitely on the same page.

I hope we could have some more thread control so we don't get repetitive response chains that get everyone making fun of each other and crying out about writer incompetence.

Like, I get it, nobody says you can't be unsatified, but there were WAY to many people just harping on and On and ON, oh gosh.

Oh, sorry I missed your earlier post, then! I like these both. Especially the one that matches my custom title. (thinkingemoji)



lmao please no I need to be able to sleep sometime this week
Aww, thanks!

Also yeah, gonna need to be diplomatic on this one, Hahaha!!
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,420
I know it's a joke but the purist argument is distracting. If the execution of the new aspects were not as debatable, then maybe they'd be more open to the changes.
 

Quinton

Specialist at TheGamer / Reviewer at RPG Site
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,255
Midgar, With Love
Hmm, any last-minute takers for creating the new thread? I'll check back in about 15-20 minutes and if no one wants the gig I'll go ahead and do it for 2000 gil.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,450
Well the thing is.... you just fight at a colosseum and do nothing else for it. She always says she's going to put Aerith into a drop dead gorgeous dress and that's clearly not the case when you get the plain dress scene where Aerith specifically singles you out for not doing anything to help the sector 5 slums. Honestly, it's just weird.

Madam M specifically mentions the work you did in Sector 5.
She says different things depending on how many quests you did.
If you do all of them, she says she'll make the most beautiful dress you've ever seen.
If you do some she says something like "A moderate amount of work gets a moderately good dress".
If you do none she says something like "I've heard of you, but what have you done, really? Not much. You get what you pay for."

Aerith's line is "YOU put a lot of work into this.....DID you put a lot of work into this?"
Meaning she thought Cloud did a lot of work for the dress, but is now questioning it.
 

Hikari

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,685
Elysium
Madam M specifically mentions the work you did in Sector 5.
She says different things depending on how many quests you did.
If you do all of them, she says she'll make the most beautiful dress you've ever seen.
If you do some she says something like "A moderate amount of work gets a moderately good dress".
If you do none she says something like "I've heard of you, but what have you done, really? Not much. You get what you pay for."

Aerith's like is "YOU put a lot of work into this.....DID you put a lot of work into this?"
Meaning she thought Cloud did a lot of work for the dress, but is now questioning it.

I need to replay this part then. All I remember her saying is about her secret quests or she had a chat with Sam. Prior to that she says I've gonna put Aerith in a drop dead gorgeous dress. I'm probably wrong lol
 

Wazzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,070
Hmm, any last-minute takers for creating the new thread? I'll check back in about 15-20 minutes and if no one wants the gig I'll go ahead and do it for 2000 gil.
I would do it but it would need to be tomorrow and I'm guessing it needs to go up now.

Title could be Clouds "Nailed it. I know."

or Touch Aerith For Spoilers

But honestly probably just pick a simple cloud quote
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,450
I need to replay this part then. All I remember her saying is about her secret quests or she had a chat with Sam. Prior to that she says I've gonna put Aerith in a drop dead gorgeous dress. I'm probably wrong lol



It's this part right here that's different.
She might say she'll put her in a gorgeous dress every time, can't remember.
But all the lines before that are different for sure depending on how much you did.
 

Rats

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,110
As someone who hasn't played FFVII (but knows a decent amount about it through cultural osmosis), this question cuts to the core of what bothers me the most about the ending.

I can see the metastructure of it and how that might tickle the fancy of some, but none of this matters to the characters at all. They don't know what "destiny" the planet wants, and that destiny literally saves their lives multiple times immediately before they decide to beat the shit out of it. What's the point of doing this? The game struggles to justify why any of this should matter to the characters, who are our viewpoint into the story. None of them can explain what is happening or why without the puppeteer hand of the writer making characters spout info they shouldn't know.

Then the end happens and a bunch of time is spent showing me someone who has not appeared, been named, or been discussed in the story at all to that point, and then something happens that I seem to be expected to care about, except the characters don't know it's happening and I don't have any way of knowing what it means. Why should this matter to me?

Uneven as things were, I liked a lot about the game's story up until Chapter 18. The climax feels entirely disconnected from the personal struggles the characters faced to get there, and the problems they had been dealing with. I don't see why it was necessary to go that way if they wanted to break with the past.
Agreed. It's a very character-driven story until the very end when the writers grind everything to a halt so they can have a conversation with audience.
 
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