FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE - Spoiler Discussion [SEE STAFF POST]

Quinton

Please state the nature of the political emergency
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Oct 25, 2017
9,562
The Research Triangle
Well said -- I'm not a huge fan of FF XII's world design (I prefer X's actually), as the overworld areas tend to be a little too big and a little too confusing to traverse for my taste. Also I find Sakimoto's compositions grating, which sure doesn't help. But there is a LOT to do in these different zones, and many of them do have an excellent sense of place, as you've nicely laid out. I think part of the design of XII is that fiddling around in these big complicated zones is NOT supposed to be just filler between plot points, but is actually a big part of what you do in the game. The offline MMO. If you don't like this fiddling (I had mixed feelings) that's OK, but it's not fair to suggest that it's just an impediment to the actual game. It's well over 50% of what you do in the game!

What I preferred about X's world is that what you do in the (much simpler) locations is almost always related to your overall journey/quest. It adds a sense of propulsion and continuity to the journey that older FFs had (thanks in part to how quick/easy it is to traverse the world map). XII loses this momentum as they try and make the big areas and the idiosyncratic things you do in them a core part of the journey.

XIII has the sense of momentum, but almost none of the places feel like real places -- they're just monster-filled tubes. And without periodic slowdowns in cities/towns, the pacing is too monotonous.

XV did recover this link between place and what you do there and story. Dealing w/ imperial drop ships, for instance. It just fell apart in the second half of the game where the structure changes, and bad plotting in the first half undermines the effect. Excellent dungeons though. If they could slim down the zone structure of XII, keep the propulsion of X, and add dungeons as well designed as XV, I think I'd be pretty happy!
I totally get this! In fact, I partially agree, and I can see why someone might have mixed feelings about the approach. (I just don't get how someone can threw it all under the bus in favor of FFXV's approach when there's actually so much in common with it.) This is why I'm a fan of both FFX's and FFXII's approaches, and I'm right there with you with regard to what would make us the happiest. Just so long as FFXIII's format is kept to a bare minimum whenever possible. <_< Though I do think FFVII Remake Part 1 will have some things in common with XIII for obvious reasons but that's OK.

FFXII stans are the English professors of gamers. “The blue curtains emphasize the melancholy tone and the inner struggles felt by the main character, tortured and exiled at a young age. It’s also worth noting the patterns of the curtains which strangely resemble Nazi symbolism; juxtaposed with the numerous angelic figures placed throughout the room, one could easily tell that this is a glimpse into the character’s chaotic, volatile, yet somewhat warm and gentle inner world. You could tell that she is hiding something; a burden that is far too great to bear.”

Please don’t ban me
Oh, you should see how I get when I complain about Imperial Rome!
 

PancakeFlip

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,624
Ah yes, Reeve totally looks like a person who moonlights as a fortune telling cat.

He's also making me feel things *cough*
Isn’t Cait Sith an advanced AI that thinks for itself that Reeve only occasionally fully takes over to speak directly with the party? Some of things it says doesn’t make sense otherwise unless like Reeve starts roleplaying as a character.
 

Poltergust

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,001
Orlando, FL
Isn’t Cait Sith an advanced AI that thinks for itself that Reeve only occasionally fully takes over to speak directly with the party? Some of things it says doesn’t make sense otherwise unless like Reeve starts roleplaying as a character.
I don't remember that being mentioned anywhere in my recent playthrough of FFVII.

I think Reeve is just really, really into roleplaying as an animatronic cat.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,021
I don't see why this is stupid. If I had my own plane I couldn't land it in 99.9% of the areas on Earth. Landing zones well dispersed throughout areas seems wholly reasonable.
The Highwind isn't an airplane, it doesn't need a runway to take off from or land on - as long as the terrain below it is level it should be able to drop the player off.
 

LordofPwn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,907
I'd personally rather have the FF7 remake overworld be more like Ni No Kuni 2 than Dragon Quest XI, but i'd have either of them over a FFXV open world.
 

CG Amor

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,619
Would it really be so bad if we got mini cloud and party to run around an overworld with?

Or would you all lose your shit?

Just imagine for a sec that they did do this, and it was highly detailed with really nice next gen graphics, what would everyone's reactions be?
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,021
Would it really be so bad if we got mini cloud and party to run around an overworld with?

Or would you all lose your shit?

Just imagine for a sec that they did do this, and it was highly detailed with really nice next gen graphics, what would everyone's reactions be?
I would be very happy.
 

Deleted member 426

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
7,272
Would it really be so bad if we got mini cloud and party to run around an overworld with?

Or would you all lose your shit?

Just imagine for a sec that they did do this, and it was highly detailed with really nice next gen graphics, what would everyone's reactions be?
I honestly think big open zones would be much cooler. Even if it’s not a single open world. Plus next gen it’ll probably be seemless zones linked together without loading times, so it’ll feel like an open world.

I was saying this in the FF era discord (come join us) but I still think it’s a possibility that part 2 is not a standalone game but a massive expansion similar to MHW iceborne. I’m not saying I think it WILL be that, but I currently think it’s possible.
 

skillzilla81

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,943
Would it really be so bad if we got mini cloud and party to run around an overworld with?

Or would you all lose your shit?

Just imagine for a sec that they did do this, and it was highly detailed with really nice next gen graphics, what would everyone's reactions be?
I would hate that. I want to be looking at the amazingly detailed character models they've created whenever I'm playing.
 

CG Amor

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,619
I honestly think big open zones would be much cooler. Even if it’s not a single open world. Plus next gen it’ll probably be seemless zones linked together without loading times, so it’ll feel like an open world.

I was saying this in the FF era discord (come join us) but I still think it’s a possibility that part 2 is not a standalone game but a massive expansion similar to MHW iceborne. I’m not saying I think it WILL be that, but I currently think it’s possible.
I haven't really weighed in on zones on here yet, but I'm not a big fan of them because I feel like its just jumping from one level to the next (which it is, I guess). Having an overworld or open world like XV would be preferable be cause you get a sense of travel and adventure in a big world even if its just an illusion.

But if FFVII did do an overworld, would it hurt your experience with the game?

I like to imagine that square could pull off a sweet looking modern overworld.
 

CG Amor

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,619
I would hate that. I want to be looking at the amazingly detailed character models they've created whenever I'm playing.
But they could amazingly detailed characters still. It would just be a higher vantage point looking down over your character. I imagine everything could be high details and look great.
 

Gaia Lanzer

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,282
Would it really be so bad if we got mini cloud and party to run around an overworld with?

Or would you all lose your shit?

Just imagine for a sec that they did do this, and it was highly detailed with really nice next-gen graphics, what would everyone's reactions be?
I wouldn't mind it. I don't' jerk off to the most greatest graphics in the world (hell, I don't play games for their graphics). For me, if it looks good, that's a bonus. Graphics shouldn't hinder gameplay experience. Balance should be taken into consideration. The game shouldn't look bad, but shouldn't blow it's wad on graphics while the experience and exploration is capped and limiting.
 

Deleted member 426

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
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I haven't really weighed in on zones on here yet, but I'm not a big fan of them because I feel like its just jumping from one level to the next (which it is, I guess). Having an overworld or open world like XV would be preferable be cause you get a sense of travel and adventure in a big world even if its just an illusion.

But if FFVII did do an overworld, would it hurt your experience with the game?

I like to imagine that square could pull off a sweet looking modern overworld.
I would be against a huge XV like open world. Open worlds are for games designed around the world itself. Where you spend the majority of your time in the world engaging with the world. FFVII isn’t that kind of game and wouldn’t translate well to that kind of game.

An overworld on the other hand would be fine I just doubt SE could make it look good enough. I mentioned before that instead of having oversized characters if you had vehicles on the overworld that could be good.

But I still think the best option would be large-ish zones, connected without loading times.
 

Professor Beef

Official ResetEra™ Chao Puncher
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,409
The Digital World
Isn’t Cait Sith an advanced AI that thinks for itself that Reeve only occasionally fully takes over to speak directly with the party? Some of things it says doesn’t make sense otherwise unless like Reeve starts roleplaying as a character.
It's complicated. Cait Sith shows signs of sentience during the Temple of the Ancients collapsing, but (apparently, I haven't played it) Dirge of Cerberus it was revealed that Reeve controls Cait Sith mentally.
 

Quinton

Please state the nature of the political emergency
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Oct 25, 2017
9,562
The Research Triangle
It's complicated. Cait Sith shows signs of sentience during the Temple of the Ancients collapsing, but (apparently, I haven't played it) Dirge of Cerberus it was revealed that Reeve controls Cait Sith mentally.
So Reeve not only really enjoys roleplaying as a cat-moogle, but he also relishes in the opportunity to roleplay the death of a cat-moogle.

We all have our kinks, I guess...
 

PancakeFlip

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,624
It's complicated. Cait Sith shows signs of sentience during the Temple of the Ancients collapsing, but (apparently, I haven't played it) Dirge of Cerberus it was revealed that Reeve controls Cait Sith mentally.
This sounds like such a mess, like did they always plan on this character working like this? I know at the very base level their idea was to have an actual character that was a cat riding on a dog then it evolved into this, but I wonder if this Reeve twist was last minute. The AI that works on its own that can be taken over by Reeve is such a simple obvious solution, but it’s like they are writing themselves in these nonsensical circles trying to explain him always operating it.
 

saintjules

Member
Dec 20, 2019
351
Gamespot put out an article claiming that the Demo is being released on March 3rd, alongside the release of the game. No source is given to back it up however.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,023
North Carolina
March 3rd makes complete sense. As the original intended plan at least. However, I see no more reason to hold the demo back. Outside of maybe it being heavily tied into some marketing campaign that they don't wish to deviate away from.
 
Oct 31, 2017
6,310
Square just shot themselves in the foot.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is with America where you can become successful by being an asshole and not releasing a demo for a video game prior to release. If you screw someone over by withholding a demo release, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is the public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase FFVIIR for any console or its eventual PC release, nor will they purchase any of Square's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Square has alienated an entire market with this move.
Square, publicly apologize and release the demo before March 3 or you can kiss your business goodbye.
 

Quinton

Please state the nature of the political emergency
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,562
The Research Triangle
Square just shot themselves in the foot.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is with America where you can become successful by not releasing a demo for a video game prior to release. If you screw someone over by withholding a demo release, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is the public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase FFVIIR for any console or its eventual PC release, nor will they purchase any of Square's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Square has alienated an entire market with this move.
Square, publicly apologize and release the demo before March 3 or you can kiss your business goodbye.
The wheel turns.
 

Kanmurukillua

Member
Jan 28, 2019
3,010
Having gotten to almost the end of Disc 2 in the original...

I have no idea at all where they're going to possibly end episode 2 of this, lmao. Northern Crater would be amazing, but that's a looooot of content for one game.
 

Deleted member 426

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
7,272
Having gotten to almost the end of Disc 2 in the original...

I have no idea at all where they're going to possibly end episode 2 of this, lmao. Northern Crater would be amazing, but that's a looooot of content for one game.
City of the Ancients could work as that’s a big set piece.

Norther Crater would be best because then part 2 would focus on the Black Materia part of the tale and part 3 would be able to expand upon the Huge Material aa its Macguffin.

But as a second option Coty of the Ancients would be fine, and you could open part 3 with some sort of Jenova flashback telling the story of the ancients.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,021
Saw this on GameFAQs:
menu_Tutorial_Fld_0410_00 Red XIII
menu_Tutorial_Fld_0410_01Red XIII has joined your party as a guest member. He will fight alongside you in battle, but he is not a controllable character.
He will not appear in the main menu as his equipment and other settings cannot be changed.
Booooo. It really should've been expected, but boo anyway.
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
1,471
Saw this on GameFAQs:
menu_Tutorial_Fld_0410_00 Red XIII
menu_Tutorial_Fld_0410_01Red XIII has joined your party as a guest member. He will fight alongside you in battle, but he is not a controllable character.
He will not appear in the main menu as his equipment and other settings cannot be changed.
He should have infinity High Potions like Larsa in FFXII, making him the secret best character in the game.
 
Oct 27, 2017
427
Saw this on GameFAQs:
menu_Tutorial_Fld_0410_00 Red XIII
menu_Tutorial_Fld_0410_01Red XIII has joined your party as a guest member. He will fight alongside you in battle, but he is not a controllable character.
He will not appear in the main menu as his equipment and other settings cannot be changed.
It's annoying that we don't get to try out controlling him in this one :-(

Surely he won't REMAIN a guest character in part two though (just indulging a little doom and gloom).
 

saintjules

Member
Dec 20, 2019
351
Now I've seen demos come out after a main game gets released. Was hoping this would be a bit different and it could be since Gamespot didn't specify how they've come to get such information. It could be subject to change.

I think Kinda Funny Games is going to do a demo impression of it based on their schedule. Maybe they might shed light on release info.
 

masizzai

Member
Nov 28, 2017
276
Are there still links to the leaked demo video? Might as well watch it now if it's gonna be delayed till the day the game comes out lol.
 

xero93

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,131
I still think it's release date of game, they were probably just told off by SE since the demo hasn't even been announced yet.

"Assumption" is a nice way of hiding "We revealed info we weren't supposed to reveal yet"