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FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE - Spoiler Discussion [SEE STAFF POST]

Quippy

Member
Jan 7, 2020
4
I still think it's release date of game, they were probably just told off by SE since the demo hasn't even been announced yet.

"Assumption" is a nice way of hiding "We revealed info we weren't supposed to reveal yet"
Is there any reason for them to hold off on it, though? I mean more people will probably try it and buy the game once it comes out if the demo is released before. Also, you know, it being leaked and datamined.
 

Zaiven

Member
Nov 12, 2019
97
I wouldn't mind a modern overworld like the old days. I think a lot of people would be ok with it too.
Unfortunately, none of those people are actually working on this game.

Maybe because we’re not waiting “15 years” for these shitty 3D polygons?


Y’know...it’s a bit different from what the developers actually wanted to do.



Devs can now actually portray their concepts the way they fully intended; motion capture and all.

Final Fantasy VII especially is an example of a game that had ambition like no other. Cinematic presentation; dynamic camera movement (e.g that iconic shot of Cloud looking up at Shinra HQ from Mako Reactor 1 and the pre-rendered BG shifting to a 3D model), action set-pieces (e.g motorcycle chase), extensive cutscenes etc.

Because barely anyone tried it back then. No shit they wouldn’t consider the possibilities when no such possibilities were ever made apparent to them.

A regression of what, exactly? Originality? Cause there’s plenty of original concepts, story scenarios, gameplay mechanics found in FF7R already and other remakes like RE2.

Is it as fresh and unique as the original FFVII? Probably not.

Does that matter? No.

Star Wars: The Force Awakens basically just copied-and-pasted A New Hope and was still received better than the other 2 films in the trilogy despite how “fresher and newer” they were...

This is all just you automatically assuming the Remake won’t have it’s own set of engaging optional content.

Good thing the “things” getting done aren’t the same things that needed 100x less time, money and manpower back in the day.

It’s not to the detriment of anything else, and the answer is simply; it’s a little jarring.

Because KH3 — a game Nomura had to juggle 48 balls to get done, somehow didn’t turn out to be the worst thing ever made in existence. Plus, it came out in a reasonable time frame considering when its production actually started...
To be perfectly honest, I disagreed with everything you said. None of your arguments convinced that this isn't regression. The bottom line is this: once upon a time, these games actually got done. Nowadays, we hang around message forums and talks about them for years while we wait and hope the games might actually make their way into our hands one day. No one is ever going to convince me that this is progress, because it isn't.

Human society, civilization, and technology can regress. Despite what many today may want to believe, forward progress is not automatically guaranteed in any human endeavor. The increased fidelity in production values is not inherently a sign of progress, especially when it comes at the expense of these games actually getting done. We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this point.
 

neoism

Member
Oct 27, 2017
945
it may have been posted already in some form

...........

...
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MARCH 3rd demo release....

 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,682
The bottom line is this: once upon a time, these games actually got done
I wonder if that whole, "games take longer to make than they ever did in the history of the medium" has anything to do with long dev times. Unless you want the devs to blatantly ignore all of the technical advancements made in real time rendering and game development in general, if you want them to maintain the same ambition, (it's actually much more when it comes to ambition all things considered), then you need to deal with the reality of game development.

. The increased fidelity in production values is not inherently a sign of progress, especially when it comes at the expense of these games actually getting done.
It's not just about increased fidelity and thinking so really exposes how misinformed you are.
 

Narroo

Member
Feb 27, 2018
1,066
Cait Sith is a dumbass character that should be written out of the remake.
Or heavily rewritten.

Actually, if anything, Yuffie and Vincent should be written out of the main party. While their personal events were nice, the core party of FFVII is much more tightly done without them. Sometimes, smaller and simpler is better. If you don't collect those two, the cast ends up being: "Avalanche + Guy Spying on Avalanche + Mascot + Crazy Old Jackass." The smallness is neat. Having Yuffie and Vincent be side events would be interesting.
 

Gold Arsene

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,737
Or heavily rewritten.

Actually, if anything, Yuffie and Vincent should be written out of the main party. While their personal events were nice, the core party of FFVII is much more tightly done without them. Sometimes, smaller and simpler is better. If you don't collect those two, the cast ends up being: "Avalanche + Guy Spying on Avalanche + Mascot + Crazy Old Jackass." The smallness is neat. Having Yuffie and Vincent be side events would be interesting.
Yeah.....



that's not happening. There not side lining one of the most popular characters in the game.
 

Wireframe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
346
Liverpool, UK
After the whole gamespot fiasco I just decided to jailbreak one of my other PS4s and play it. It plays fine (not button mash at all), and I'm pretty excited for the full game now.
 

Zaiven

Member
Nov 12, 2019
97
I wonder if that whole, "games take longer to make than they ever did in the history of the medium" has anything to do with long dev times. Unless you want the devs to blatantly ignore all of the technical advancements made in real time rendering and game development in general, if you want them to maintain the same ambition, (it's actually much more when it comes to ambition all things considered), then you need to deal with the reality of game development.


It's not just about increased fidelity and thinking so really exposes how misinformed you are.
Misinformed, huh? Heh. I guess this is what I get for trying to keep my replies short.

But, CrossingEden, since you are so much more knowledgeable than I, please tell me what, exactly, it is about, then.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,682
Misinformed, huh? Heh. I guess this is what I get for trying to keep my replies short.

But, CrossingEden, since you are so much more knowledgeable than I, please tell me what, exactly, it is about, then.
AAA games in general are much more complex than they were two decades ago. Each change made is another added layer of complexity beyond just making high res modern redesigns. Let's take AI for example, having random chance encounters with enemies is way less complex than having those enemies physically on the map with everything that entails, starting with something like pathfinding so that they aren't constantly walking into walls and generally breaking the illusion that they're "real." Not to mention in general having more behaviors, (this is versus literally everyone standing around), having to create hitboxes for each and every enemy, etc. it's just a whole different beast on top of trying to make one of if not the prettiest JRPG of all time, again.

FFVII was already the most ambitious JRPG of all time and the most expensive game ever developed when it was first released and they're trying to match that level of ambition in the modern day. Who knows how it'll turn out? Maybe it'll be good, or great with flaws, however, there is no indication that game development has regressed just because games take longer to make than they used to even with all of the "shortcuts" that exist in current game development workflows that make iterating and prototyping a faster process.
 

RagnarokX

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,181
FF7 Part 1: Midgar (Remake adds an excursion to Sector 7)


FF7 Part 2: Chasing Sephiroth to confrontation at North Crater.


FF7 Part 3: Huge Materia quest to end.


Maybe make Wutai a non-optional part to flesh-out part 3? Have a huge Materia there
 
Last edited:
Oct 31, 2017
5,963
Unfortunately, none of those people are actually working on this game.


To be perfectly honest, I disagreed with everything you said. None of your arguments convinced that this isn't regression. The bottom line is this: once upon a time, these games actually got done. Nowadays, we hang around message forums and talks about them for years while we wait and hope the games might actually make their way into our hands one day. No one is ever going to convince me that this is progress, because it isn't.

Human society, civilization, and technology can regress. Despite what many today may want to believe, forward progress is not automatically guaranteed in any human endeavor. The increased fidelity in production values is not inherently a sign of progress, especially when it comes at the expense of these games actually getting done. We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this point.
Regressed in terms of efficiency, sure. But that’s it. Otherwise it’s obvious to anyone above an IQ of 5 as to why SE can’t exactly replicate what they were able to do in the SNES/PS1 era.
 
Oct 31, 2017
5,963
Or heavily rewritten.

Actually, if anything, Yuffie and Vincent should be written out of the main party. While their personal events were nice, the core party of FFVII is much more tightly done without them. Sometimes, smaller and simpler is better. If you don't collect those two, the cast ends up being: "Avalanche + Guy Spying on Avalanche + Mascot + Crazy Old Jackass." The smallness is neat. Having Yuffie and Vincent be side events would be interesting.
Hell no I want the cutscenes to look nice. You can’t have nice-looking cutscenes if you have to factor in optional characters standing in the background
 

Kanmurukillua

Member
Jan 28, 2019
2,603
FF7 Part 2: Chasing Sephiroth to confrontation at North Crater.


FF7 Part 3: Huge Materia quest to end.


Maybe make Wutai a non-optional part to flesh-out part 3? Have a huge Materia there
Now that I've actually gotten to almost the end of the original for my first time, this would obviously be ideal, I just have no idea how they'd fit from Kalm all the way to the Northern Crater lmao. I reeeeally hope they somehow can do it though, both of those games would be absolutely massive if they can do this.
 

Lucreto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,392
Now that I've actually gotten to almost the end of the original for my first time, this would obviously be ideal, I just have no idea how they'd fit from Kalm all the way to the Northern Crater lmao. I reeeeally hope they somehow can do it though, both of those games would be absolutely massive if they can do this.
It could be as simple as they wanted to expand on Midgar since it has more potential for story content that it was given in the original so it got its own game.

The rest of the game might be as straightforward as the original with minor expansion here and there.

We are just speculating on what SE grand plan is but we have no idea.
 

MeteoraVII

Member
Nov 16, 2019
117
To be perfectly honest, I disagreed with everything you said. None of your arguments convinced that this isn't regression. The bottom line is this: once upon a time, these games actually got done. Nowadays, we hang around message forums and talks about them for years while we wait and hope the games might actually make their way into our hands one day. No one is ever going to convince me that this is progress, because it isn't.

Human society, civilization, and technology can regress. Despite what many today may want to believe, forward progress is not automatically guaranteed in any human endeavor. The increased fidelity in production values is not inherently a sign of progress, especially when it comes at the expense of these games actually getting done. We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this point.
Fair enough. I can definitely see why the time and development cycles of these modern games can be infuriating or seen as a regression.

I guess I just personally value the end result more. It basically just comes down to how much enjoyment you get out of the product, and wether it’s worth the time or effort.
 

jacktuar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,167
No one is getting cut, parts 2 and 3 will be expansions rather than sequels. Everyone’s getting in!

#crazypredicition
 

Tyrael87

Member
May 19, 2019
125
No one is getting cut, parts 2 and 3 will be expansions rather than sequels. Everyone’s getting in!

#crazypredicition
I actually think the same. So you don't have to worry about importing savegames to the next part(s) or give basic equipment for new players (who would be so idiotic to skip a previous part of a multi-part of a game anyway?)

But then you'll get "muh muh DLC" crusaders... i liked how it worked with Heart of the Swarm (i think Legacy of the Void was standalone though)
 

Rumpestump

Member
Dec 8, 2018
610
So I don’t know if this is perhaps a weird request in a spoiler thread but since I don’t want to spoil the game I would ask if any of you kind persons would be willing to tell me if there are major changes to the story without mentioning what those are. Like for instance I bet there are probably more to do and there are some changes from the original but are the major plot basically intact and are we getting the “same” game in a 2020 manner like the trailers have hinted at?

Weird request perhaps but I hope you guys understand.
 

jacktuar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,167
I actually think the same. So you don't have to worry about importing savegames to the next part(s) or give basic equipment for new players (who would be so idiotic to skip a previous part of a multi-part of a game anyway?)

But then you'll get "muh muh DLC" crusaders... i liked how it worked with Heart of the Swarm (i think Legacy of the Void was standalone though)
I’ve only recently come around to this way of thinking. And it’s based on one thing basically:

There are four characters. And yet there is character changing because you’re only allowed three. So you’re choosing 3 out of 4. That seems super weird to me. But if the plan is to do Iceborne style expansions then it makes sense.
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
2,854
When Hitman season 1 came out I had hoped at the time it was some sort of trial for content delivery for the remake, just on a smaller scale.

I would still prefer something like that, a FFVII Remake psuedo-GAAS that updates with expansions, or something like XIV.

But it doesn't make sense as part 2 will be a ps5 game. Maybe the PS5 version of Remake 1 could do it or something
 

Balfour

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,665
So I don’t know if this is perhaps a weird request in a spoiler thread but since I don’t want to spoil the game I would ask if any of you kind persons would be willing to tell me if there are major changes to the story without mentioning what those are. Like for instance I bet there are probably more to do and there are some changes from the original but are the major plot basically intact and are we getting the “same” game in a 2020 manner like the trailers have hinted at?

Weird request perhaps but I hope you guys understand.
There are a few finer details changed. But you are still doing the same things you did in Midgar. Reactors, sector alums wall market, shinra tower, escape, etc.

Theres new stuff tossed in there too, but you'll hit the events you do know
 

Rumpestump

Member
Dec 8, 2018
610
There are a few finer details changed. But you are still doing the same things you did in Midgar. Reactors, sector alums wall market, shinra tower, escape, etc.

Theres new stuff tossed in there too, but you'll hit the events you do know
Thx a lot really appreciate it. Just wanted to make sure they were not going off track and it sounds like they are simply adding a bit more to do and that is totally fine by me.
 

Quippy

Member
Jan 7, 2020
4
Hell no I want the cutscenes to look nice. You can’t have nice-looking cutscenes if you have to factor in optional characters standing in the background
I really don't see how this is a problem? It's not excruciatingly hard to make two versions of the FMV and just toss the models in there. Besides, they wouldn't make the cutscenes in part 2+ noticeably worse-looking than part 1.
 

apathetic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,084
I highly highly doubt there will be optional characters, or if their are that they will be important ones like Vincent and Yuffie. Like it's not even something I would have considered if someone else didn't bring it up.
 

Antoo

Member
May 1, 2019
650
The perfect way to start game two is with the flashback at Kalm. It would be perfect and throw off people who never played the original with the fact that we are jumping back in time. It serves as a cold opening and successfully raises the stakes. The trip to Kalm is so short and honestly worthless that it should pick up with you and the gang leaving. I would suggest Yuffie being introduced here and somehow messing with the crew by stealing something or whatever.

Game 2 obviously should end with Cloud getting captured and the rest of the group in stitches.You have to remember each game needs to have its own three act structure so having Aerith’s death being the driving factor of why they fail at Northern Crater is perfect. Her death shakes the group up leaving them with low morale. Only in game 3 will they recognize why Aerith did what she did and band together.

Game three starting with you breaking out Tifa and going on the materia quest is perfect. Great opening set piece and it adds an unrelenting pace to the first act.

Finally, at the graveyard at Golden Saucer there should be a gravestone with Cait Sith’s name on it. He is not in the game nor mentioned other than that
 

Kanmurukillua

Member
Jan 28, 2019
2,603
I wonder how long each game is going to take to release. All of the parts of XIII were a year to a year and a half apart but I would imagine this is going to take quite a bit longer.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
37,959
The perfect way to start game two is with the flashback at Kalm. It would be perfect and throw off people who never played the original with the fact that we are jumping back in time. It serves as a cold opening and successfully raises the stakes. The trip to Kalm is so short and honestly worthless that it should pick up with you and the gang leaving. I would suggest Yuffie being introduced here and somehow messing with the crew by stealing something or whatever.

Game 2 obviously should end with Cloud getting captured and the rest of the group in stitches.You have to remember each game needs to have its own three act structure so having Aerith’s death being the driving factor of why they fail at Northern Crater is perfect. Her death shakes the group up leaving them with low morale. Only in game 3 will they recognize why Aerith did what she did and band together.

Game three starting with you breaking out Tifa and going on the materia quest is perfect. Great opening set piece and it adds an unrelenting pace to the first act.

Finally, at the graveyard at Golden Saucer there should be a gravestone with Cait Sith’s name on it. He is not in the game nor mentioned other than that
It just won't be possible for them to push part 2 that far. It's too damn much world to craft for one episode when they couldn't even be bothered to do anything outside of Midgar in this one, and THIS one doesn't even seem that substantial overall.
 

Chille

Member
Jan 7, 2018
476
I really don't see how this is a problem? It's not excruciatingly hard to make two versions of the FMV and just toss the models in there. Besides, they wouldn't make the cutscenes in part 2+ noticeably worse-looking than part 1.
Wouldnt it be atleast 4 cutscenes? You got with vincent+yuffie, with Yuffie, with Vincent, without either. Considering they are both fun characters to play as, meh
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
37,959
Or heavily rewritten.

Actually, if anything, Yuffie and Vincent should be written out of the main party. While their personal events were nice, the core party of FFVII is much more tightly done without them. Sometimes, smaller and simpler is better. If you don't collect those two, the cast ends up being: "Avalanche + Guy Spying on Avalanche + Mascot + Crazy Old Jackass." The smallness is neat. Having Yuffie and Vincent be side events would be interesting.
Vincent and Yuffie will be 100% mandatory this time around. It doesn't really make sense to make them optional as much as I hate Yuffie and would love nothing more than to never see her again.
 

Kanmurukillua

Member
Jan 28, 2019
2,603
Yuffie and Vincent are going to 100% be non-optional and Wutai as well as the cave behind the waterfall are going to be required to visit.
 
Oct 31, 2017
5,963
I really don't see how this is a problem? It's not excruciatingly hard to make two versions of the FMV and just toss the models in there. Besides, they wouldn't make the cutscenes in part 2+ noticeably worse-looking than part 1.
You can’t be serious with this post. It absolutely is a lot of time/effort/money to make different versions of cutscenes (that aren’t ugly) depending on if you have no optional characters, just Yuffie, just Vincent, or both. And I don’t know about you but I’d rather not have characters that just stand in the background (or have occasional random quips with awkward and jarring close ups)

They’re going to be mandatory, and that’s a good thing.
 

sam huge

Member
Oct 27, 2017
127
FF7 Part 2: Chasing Sephiroth to confrontation at North Crater.


FF7 Part 3: Huge Materia quest to end.


Maybe make Wutai a non-optional part to flesh-out part 3? Have a huge Materia there

Looking at these maps, it occurs to me that they'll most likely just do the first continent or two--and pad to taste--for pt 2. that is, if development of environments is the bottleneck. Why wouldn't they want to flesh out junon, Kalm, and an entire continent to match the scale of what they do with midgar?

Also, the map is just good art and it would be a shame for them to not find a way to be use it in some faithful capacity (i.e. #chibiworldmap)
 

Quippy

Member
Jan 7, 2020
4
You can’t be serious with this post. It absolutely is a lot of time/effort/money to make different versions of cutscenes (that aren’t ugly) depending on if you have no optional characters, just Yuffie, just Vincent, or both
Wow you really caught me. Not serious at all. Completely a joke. Bravo. Astounding. So keen.

And yea. But just based on how they did the original game, they can just kinda hang out in the corner. Would I like that? No. And it probably would look like garbage now that I think about it.
 

Zetta

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,911
Or heavily rewritten.

Actually, if anything, Yuffie and Vincent should be written out of the main party. While their personal events were nice, the core party of FFVII is much more tightly done without them. Sometimes, smaller and simpler is better. If you don't collect those two, the cast ends up being: "Avalanche + Guy Spying on Avalanche + Mascot + Crazy Old Jackass." The smallness is neat. Having Yuffie and Vincent be side events would be interesting.
well I've seen it all, never thought I would see someone that wanted to write off Yuffie. I can't imagine not hearing her theme.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
37,959
Looking at these maps, it occurs to me that they'll most likely just do the first continent or two--and pad to taste--for pt 2. that is, if development of environments is the bottleneck. Why wouldn't they want to flesh out junon, Kalm, and an entire continent to match the scale of what they do with midgar?

Also, the map is just good art and it would be a shame for them to not find a way to be use it in some faithful capacity (i.e. #chibiworldmap)
Part 2 is probably gonna cut off in Nibelheim or maybe Rocket Town. I don't in any way see them roping in Wutai or the northern/southern continents.
 

Antoo

Member
May 1, 2019
650
It just won't be possible for them to push part 2 that far. It's too damn much world to craft for one episode when they couldn't even be bothered to do anything outside of Midgar in this one, and THIS one doesn't even seem that substantial overall.
I know it’s a lot. I’m probably thinking about this too much from a narrative standpoint. I just think Aerith’s death does not work as an endpoint because it serves better as a climax. And every climax is followed by a falling action. This whole section of the original making up the second game ties it all together with a thematic through line. The game is about testing our heroes and breaking them down. They face an escalating series of woes before ultimately failing.

I feel like multiple games ending with downer endings feels repetitive and some moments just work well with other moments.

Maybe they could push certain things to later? Have Yuffie’s family subplot and side quest be in part 3. Does the tower place with the eagle or whatever need to be in this game? I remember it not being integral to the plot until the material quest. Skip that and put it in game three.
 

Kanmurukillua

Member
Jan 28, 2019
2,603
I know it’s a lot. I’m probably thinking about this too much from a narrative standpoint. I just think Aerith’s death does not work as an endpoint because it serves better as a climax. And every climax is followed by a falling action. This whole section of the game making up the second game ties it all together with a thematic through line. The game is about testing our heroes and breaking them down. They face an escalating series of woes before ultimately failing.

I feel like multiple games ending with downer endings feels repetitive and some moments just work well with other moments.

Maybe they could push certain things to later? Have Yuffie’s family subplot and side quest be in part 3. Does the tower place with the eagle or whatever need to be in this game? I remember it not being integral to the plot until the material quest. Skip that and put it in game three.
Ideally, I'd say have Part 2 be up to Northern Crater but make it so Fort Condor and Wutai aren't in Part 2 at all, like you said. Cloud being captured and mind broken is a perfect ending for part 2, and that way the only game with a downer ending is that one, whereas Part 1 is obviously going to have a more somber ending with them leaving Midgar, and Part 3, if it ended there (which it should, ideally) would end with the end of the game. I just have no idea how they'll accomplish that, but that's really the best possible ending point for part 2.
 

Antoo

Member
May 1, 2019
650
Ideally, I'd say have Part 2 be up to Northern Crater but make it so Fort Condor and Wutai aren't in Part 2 at all, like you said. Cloud being captured and mind broken is a perfect ending for part 2, and that way the only game with a downer ending is that one, whereas Part 1 is obviously going to have a more somber ending with them leaving Midgar, and Part 3, if it ended there (which it should, ideally) would end with the end of the game. I just have no idea how they'll accomplish that, but that's really the best possible ending p for part 2.
I’d say you can maybe push it and cut Mt. Corel for part 3 too. It really only serves as a bridge to Golden Saucer before the materia quest. The only iffy thing is Barrett’s backstory. I’d say you could have him talk about his past on the trip to the saucer as they pass the location. Save his return and the friend stuff for part 3. The final part should be about ending arcs anyways so it makes sense to push his return till the final act. This is probably a big shift though.

Maybe make Dyne show up at the Saucer initially as an ally before betraying them someway? This makes them flee the Saucer. In fact, you could place the Barett talking about his past here after they see Dyne. Then in game three after the train heist have the gang be captured. There the arc could proceed as usual just at a later date. Cloud’s not apart of it but it really isn’t his story.
 
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Chille

Member
Jan 7, 2018
476
If they can make one with both Yuffie and Vincent, nothing is stopping them from just taking one of them out, right?
Its still extra time, got to move all the character animations because in scenes where they would be looking at them or interacting they would end up looking into space for no reason. Also looks like some of the cutscenes are prerender and if its 72gb just for it right now, with all the extra cutscenes with or without characters probably gonna double it. Do you really want a 140+ gb game?
 

Gibson

Member
Oct 29, 2017
664
Yuffie and Vincent will not be optional. All characters will be fully mandatory this time, why people are even amusing the idea is beyond me.
 

Narroo

Member
Feb 27, 2018
1,066
well I've seen it all, never thought I would see someone that wanted to write off Yuffie. I can't imagine not hearing her theme.
Not write off...rather, keep written as, more or less. Because of her optional nature she's basically a non-existent in the main story and does little more than stand-around. Her Wutai side-quest is pretty strongly written though. What would be interesting would be if they left it as a detour point; after you get the Tiny Bronco the team lands at Wutai for a lack of fuel (and a proper boat.) Queue Yuffie robbing everyone.

Of course that would never happen. (And imagine the fan backlash!) But it would be an interesting idea to not teather Yuffie and Vincent to the main party.