Final Fantasy VII Remake State of Play 2019 Trailer; More to come in June

Oct 27, 2017
1,285
Sure is! And, if he's right, it seems like a really elegant translation of the classic ATB Battle system into real time mechanics. I'm really looking forward to see how it all comes together.
I also noticed that in some of the scenes, the Triangle and Square sections of the UI in the bottom left pulse at different speeds in different parts of the video. Not sure if its the player that is doing that with each button press or what. I dont know if the guy in the video mentioned this.

For example, 19 seconds Barret's is pulsing slower, and then at around 37 seconds, Cloud's pulses quicker, and then again at 40 seconds. I'm guessing its just the player pressing the button, but I have no idea.
 

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
2,905
I wonder if switching playable characters is going to decrease your ATB gauge, like some actions seem to do.
 

mute

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,276
From what little we saw of above-plate Midgar it didn't seem too much better off than below-plate Midgar.
 

"D."

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,503
I'm really concerned about how they will implement the Materia system, scope of battle and magic, in specific.

The more physical skills for some the Materia seem pretty easy but the magic is what I'm concerned about for these reasons:

1. The scope of the spells and how this will tie into battling and the size of the map in general. If all 3 characters have spell type Materia equipped and lets say hypothetically speaking the battles take place right then an there as opposed to switching to a dedicated screen, then inadvertently that would probably mean the map size will be large and possibly more barren (which I'm hoping against) to be able to contain the size of the fight plus battle effects. And if it DOES switch to a dedicated battle screen for fights then how big will the battle area be...and in turn how will this effect casting magic, with 2 other characters that can cast magic, with different size types of enemies all on the same screen, while managing good framerate and/or resolution? Also would magic be on a cooldown like XV?

2. Some of the spells, especially the level 3 ones are somewhat grandiose in effect. Will they still keep this or will the amount of spell type Materia be reduced in order to cut down on "graphics processing/effects" for spells in general? I say this cause the higher level spells in KH3 were somewhat of a spectacle to behold, but the graphics "intensity" of KH3 isn't geared toward realism and physics like FFVII Remake is. And also keep in mind in the previous 2 betas/alphas we had for FFXV, they allowed us to play with quite a few different "types" of spells before settingly on just Fire, Lighting and Ice exclusively....and after seeing their effect on battle I can understand why.

3. Consider everything I just said, now throw SUMMONS into the mix. Now I can see summons being kinda treated look-wise, similar to XV....but will there be certain parameters in which you can summon, LIKE XV? A cooldown perhaps??

I'm cautiously optimistic cause the Material system is hands down and by far my FAVORITE system of all the Final Fantasies I've played. I REALLY hope it will translate well to a semi-action-esque battle system. I know y'all gone be like "just wait til June" but man these questions is burning my soul lol
 

Mars People

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,889
It feels like everyone and their dog is waiting for the first glimpse of Tifa.
Square has been doing its very best to hide her all this time.
 

GaussTek

Member
Oct 30, 2017
68
So, I was listening to the FF VII G-Bike soundtrack (yeah, that mobile game that closed a few years ago lol), and maan, the soundtrack is awesome. I just hope the Remake battle theme sounds a bit like this:
https://youtu.be/yyW6w-mKTQ0

Anyway, I also hope Uematsu has recovered from his illness, and that he is still on board.
 

MilkBeard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,297
It feels like everyone and their dog is waiting for the first glimpse of Tifa.
Square has been doing its very best to hide her all this time.
I expect a lot of "Her face is too round! Her elbows are too pointy!" when it happens. I may just check out of FF VIIR talk for a while when they show more of it because of this petty shit.

Other than that I am excited to see more. And yeah, they definitely did this hiding of Tifa on purpose.
 

Eylos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,818
My theory why aerith house is nice:
We know that aerith adoptive mom was married to a Guy in the army And he died during the wutai war, so shinra payed some cash to the widow for his death and she lives with the pension, since he's a "war hero".
They are probably too poor to upper plate, but rich to the slums.
 

Malkier

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,031
Everyone wants to see Tifa I'm over here worried about my boy Red XIII. Going to be interesting to see how they handle his fur style.
 

Gbraga

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,066
I'm not sure if this was already discussed, but one thing I do find weird about the gameplay was that a simple 3 button press combo had that slow as hell overhead hit at the end. That's way too delayed to be [] [] [], maybe if it was [] [], pause, [] it would make more sense.

So hopefully there are combo modifiers like in KH to change that. That animation with that button press pace won't feel very responsive.
 

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR
Hold button to attack was definitely a Tabata thing and probably won't be making a return.
In some of the harder battles in XII you absolutely needed to constantly be switching between characters and giving them commands, even with the Gambit system. Now imagine not using the Gambit system; every time an ATB bar fills up you'd need to give a command. In this game I'm guessing attacks are automated, but abilities (magic/stronger attacks/items) will need commands.

The blue bars are for items/magic/and certain attacks. Braver is no longer a limit break but an attack that uses a section of the blue ATB bar. Cross slash is a limit break that uses the yellow limit break bar. There was a rumor posted on Reddit that this is similar for most characters. So for instance Blade Beam which was a LB in the original is now an ability attack but Climhazard is an LB. Or Back blast for Barret as an attack, but Big Shot as an LB.
I see, interesting.
I guess I can see that happening on higher difficulties at least yeah. Hopefully you're right.
oh god
thanks for telling us you've never played a KH game
Lol. KH's combat system absolutely becomes deeper as you unlock more of the abilities. Try to actually know what the fuck you are talking about before making idiotic comments.
Why are KH fans always so agressive? I didn't say it was a bad game or even a bad ARPG.
Just talking about its combat system, and there's a reason those games never appear in serious discussions about this kind of gameplay.
 

SOLDIER

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,984
Have there been any notable podcasts talking about the Remake? Have Giant Bomb or Castle Superbeast brought it up this week?

How about any notable videos? Maximillian Dood has a good discussion video up, and Liam RSS brings up some good points in his SoP stream.
 

Coinspinner

Member
Nov 6, 2017
1,380
I'm greatly looking forward to seeing Cait Sith's limit that makes him fuse with the rest of the party to form a giant Cait Sith. I love that weirdo.
 

Glass Arrows

Member
Jan 10, 2019
1,413
Why are KH fans always so agressive? I didn't say it was a bad game or even a bad ARPG.
Just talking about its combat system, and there's a reason those games never appear in serious discussions about this kind of gameplay.
I dunno about you, but I regularly see KH2FM praised for its action gameplay. You're entitled to your opinion but you haven't really explained your stance either or talked about your experience. What KH games are you even talking about when making this comparison (some of them have pretty big gameplay differences from one another), and what games are you comparing them to when you would say they get more in-depth later where KH doesn't?
 

Miang

Member
Oct 28, 2017
167
Everyone wants to see Tifa I'm over here worried about my boy Red XIII. Going to be interesting to see how they handle his fur style.
Yes! His near absence from the Compilation was a big disappointment. Can't wait to see his story at Cosmo Canyon, one of my favourite parts of the game.
 

LordofPwn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,924
Hmm... the more i look at the HUD the less I like it...

Like do we really need an attack button on screen if it's going to have a dedicated button? square and triangle seem to be like normal and heavy attacks in other games. a command menu could just be replaced with L1 for a shortcuts menu where you could flip through pages with the d-pad so idk why the command menu then also lists L1 for shortcuts... doesn't add up.
 

Malkier

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,031
Yes! His near absence from the Compilation was a big disappointment. Can't wait to see his story at Cosmo Canyon, one of my favourite parts of the game.
Can't wait to see that part played out with good graphics. I actually hated the Cosmo Canyon music the first time I got there. After the story unfolded I kind of did a 180 on the music and thought it was kind of perfect.
 

SmokedSalmon

Member
Apr 1, 2019
885
Why are KH fans always so agressive? I didn't say it was a bad game or even a bad ARPG.
Just talking about its combat system, and there's a reason those games never appear in serious discussions about this kind of gameplay.
Sorry your not really getting any substantial answers.

KH combat gets deeper as you unlock new abilities, magic, and other tools (there’s a lot of different stuff depending on the game you play). You have a lot of options and a lot of ways to show self experesion though combat. People will even go though the better KH games at LV1, which I think shows how skillful you can be in these games. I think its pretty compatible to turn based rpgs. The core combat doesn’t change but you get new tools to experiment with as you go along. Also perhaps I’m just crazy, but I often hear lots of people talking about KH’s combat very seriously.

FFXV also had some really interesting depth to it. I think its a little disingenuous of people to say the combat is simple because your holding a button down to attack. Considering the focus on tilting the directional stick to change your attack type as well as weapon switching, it actually worked pretty well. People could also progress in many different ways making at least the early game very different for different plays.
 

Glass Arrows

Member
Jan 10, 2019
1,413
Sorry your not really getting any substantial answers.

KH combat gets deeper as you unlock new abilities, magic, and other tools (there’s a lot of different stuff depending on the game you play). You have a lot of options and a lot of ways to show self experesion though combat. People will even go though the better KH games at LV1, which I think shows how skillful you can be in these games. I think its pretty compatible to turn based rpgs. The core combat doesn’t change but you get new tools to experiment with as you go along. Also perhaps I’m just crazy, but I often hear lots of people talking about KH’s combat very seriously.
This is what I was alluding to earlier but better explained.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,719
Have there been any notable podcasts talking about the Remake? Have Giant Bomb or Castle Superbeast brought it up this week?

How about any notable videos? Maximillian Dood has a good discussion video up, and Liam RSS brings up some good points in his SoP stream.
Easy Allies watched the state of play live and talked about it for a good 20 minutes, then they did their frame trap podcast and talked about it again.
 

Nakenorm

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
5,919
Sweden
Have there been any notable podcasts talking about the Remake? Have Giant Bomb or Castle Superbeast brought it up this week?

How about any notable videos? Maximillian Dood has a good discussion video up, and Liam RSS brings up some good points in his SoP stream.
Easy Allies watched the state of play live and talked about it for a good 20 minutes, then they did their frame trap podcast and talked about it again.
And they talked about it for another 20 minutes in today's Easy Allies Podcast, but that won't be up for non patrons until Friday.
 

CocoaFusion

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,130
Only things i'd like to see change are the MP and HP bars. They need to be more pronounced or just easier to read. i get that they want to limit the amount of colors used cause green blue purple and yellow is a bit much. might try and take a stab at it.
I actually really liked the menu from the 2017 trailers. I wonder if we can strike a balance there.
 

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR
I dunno about you, but I regularly see KH2FM praised for its action gameplay. You're entitled to your opinion but you haven't really explained your stance either or talked about your experience. What KH games are you even talking about when making this comparison (some of them have pretty big gameplay differences from one another), and what games are you comparing them to when you would say they get more in-depth later where KH doesn't?
The main ones. 1/2/3 (haven't played 2.8 or whatever the one with Aqua was named, and I don't think the other spinoffs matter).
I'm not arguing other games in the genre get really deeper over time mind you, I was just replying to someone that was saying that. JRPG and ARPG in their vast majority have the same system throughout the whole game and don't really become deeper with more options, just get some more variation (and no, some harder enemies don't make the game deeper). Which is kind of my issue with what has been shown.
Sorry your not really getting any substantial answers.

KH combat gets deeper as you unlock new abilities, magic, and other tools (there’s a lot of different stuff depending on the game you play). You have a lot of options and a lot of ways to show self experesion though combat. People will even go though the better KH games at LV1, which I think shows how skillful you can be in these games. I think its pretty compatible to turn based rpgs. The core combat doesn’t change but you get new tools to experiment with as you go along. Also perhaps I’m just crazy, but I often hear lots of people talking about KH’s combat very seriously.

FFXV also had some really interesting depth to it. I think its a little disingenuous of people to say the combat is simple because your holding a button down to attack. Considering the focus on tilting the directional stick to change your attack type as well as weapon switching, it actually worked pretty well. People could also progress in many different ways making at least the early game very different for different plays.
But that's my point (see above): you get some new and/or different tools, but the combat doesn't become deeper or really more meaningful. I'm not sure what you mean by "self expression through combat", as this is a term usually used for DMC or God Hand, not even Bayonetta (or most Platinum games). You can indeed fight in KH in some different ways, but it's mostly the same thing, as it doesn't really change the way you approach an enemy, nor do enemies really try to approach you differently throughout the game. Again, I'm not saying it's bad or even serviceable, just that combat is not really the point of KH.
For the "KH has great combat" discussions: have you ever heard that in threads/videos not about the game? As in have you heard used as a point of comparison, rather than just someone saying "wow, combat in KH is really good" in a tweet/video about KH? I'm asking that seriously, not as a joke.

And no, FFXV isn't deep at all. Changing the direction of the stick and changing your weapon sometimes (or launching a grenade) doesn't make the game deep. It's just the same stuff with barely any variation, but doesn't really change the game or how to approach combat. It has no skill curve and potential, it's really basic. It works, but the arguments for FFXV's combat never hold up.

I'm not saying that FF7 should be some DMC game, or even something like the first God of War, they're making an ARPG, not a pure action game. I'm also not saying that FF7 was some super deep RPG with a fantastic combat system. I'm just saying that not only it's disappointing that they're making a pretty simplistic one (from what we're seeing over two trailers), but that the formula doesn't even seem to be changing from Nomura's previous works (someone above argued about some other possibilities, which are intriguing, but nothing is clear cut about that).

edit: oh boy, top of the page.
 
Oct 25, 2017
29,013
Basically sounds like you don’t like it so it’s not viable. The argument you bring fourth about hearing it outside of threads for the game is some fluff tho anda bit comical considering it’s a high rated series and no matter where you look the ARPG combat is praised
 

SmokedSalmon

Member
Apr 1, 2019
885
The main ones. 1/2/3 (haven't played 2.8 or whatever the one with Aqua was named, and I don't think the other spinoffs matter).

But that's my point (see above): you get some new and/or different tools, but the combat doesn't become deeper or really more meaningful. I'm not sure what you mean by "self expression through combat", as this is a term usually used for DMC or God Hand, not even Bayonetta (or most Platinum games). You can indeed fight in KH in some different ways, but it's mostly the same thing, as it doesn't really change the way you approach an enemy, nor do enemies really try to approach you differently throughout the game. Again, I'm not saying it's bad or even serviceable, just that combat is not really the point of KH.
For the "KH has great combat" discussions: have you ever heard that in threads/videos not about the game? As in have you heard used as a point of comparison, rather than just someone saying "wow, combat in KH is really good" in a tweet/video about KH? I'm asking that seriously, not as a joke.

And no, FFXV isn't deep at all. Changing the direction of the stick and changing your weapon sometimes (or launching a grenade) doesn't make the game deep. It's just the same stuff with barely any variation, but doesn't really change the game or how to approach combat. It has no skill curve and potential, it's really basic. It works, but the arguments for FFXV's combat never hold up.

I'm not saying that FF7 should be some DMC game, or even something like the first God of War, they're making an ARPG, not a pure action game. I'm also not saying that FF7 was some super deep RPG with a fantastic combat system. I'm just saying that not only it's disappointing that they're making a pretty simplistic one (from what we're seeing over two trailers), but that the formula doesn't even seem to be changing from Nomura's previous works (someone above argued about some other possibilities, which are intriguing, but nothing is clear cut about that).

edit: oh boy, top of the page.
I would say self expression comes from however you choose to play a game. For KH you may choose to play largely aggressively, taking a dodge and attack approach or you might use summons and magic to control the flow of battle. I think the way magic works in KH is really interesting. They all have different ways in which they come out with different effects so knowing how to use them can lead to interesting situations. There are combo videos for both KH3 and FFXV (btw, I have a lot of problems with FFXV but I do think it has lots of options), there’s a lot of different ways you can play these games. You can finish a DMC game without buying new moves and play the game without any style and still finish it. There are a lot of different ways you can play a turn based game too. They way you use materia in FF7 says a lot about your play style.

I’m not sure I raelly understand your point about about things not nessisarly changing. In the original FF7, getting new skills, limit breaks, and magics doesn’t fundamentally change the ATB combat. Couldn’t you say the combat doesn’t become more meaningful as you get your new tools in FF7 too. You can also make every character play very similarly due to the materia system. For the record, I would have preferred if they had stayed true to the original and kept the ATB combat system.

As far as talking about KH outside of KH forums, I remember when they showed off new footage from YS9 at a game show a little while back people were talking about how the white haired character running up a building looked very similar to the same machanique in KH3. I used to talk to a friend of mine a lot about magic spells in ARPGs and I remember talking about magic in the KH series and the first Nier. I think you might be on to something though. Its hard for me to think about ARPGs without thinking of KH or YS (which are some of my favorites). Perhaps that influences how I see these conversations.

I think your points a valid though. The trailer doesn’t seem to portray the combat as super deep so you may be right. Sorry if I came off as aggressive in my last post.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,719
Eolz

I don't think there's an issue with Kingdom Hearts or FFXV's combat, i think the issue is that you clearly prefer DMC style combat systems, and see them as the correct way to do it, and any type of deviation from that is a deviation in the wrong direction.

You even cite XV's simple control scheme as a negative, as if complex button inputs are a good thing, Noctis has a stinger style attack with his spear, all i have to do is pull the analog stick down and hold to get him to do it, would it make the game better if i had to do 2 fast quarter circles to initiate the attack?

And to answer your question, yes of course there are videos of skilled XV/KH players who make highlight videos showing off what they can do.


This is a player beating the hardest enemy in the game with the weakest weapon in the game without taking damage.


Here's what appears to be a DMC player having fun with the XV combat.

Obviously these games don't have the depth or complexity of a game like DMC5 but that's also not what they're trying to do.
 

Ishida

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,340
México
Eolz

I don't think there's an issue with Kingdom Hearts or FFXV's combat, i think the issue is that you clearly prefer DMC style combat systems, and see them as the correct way to do it, and any type of deviation from that is a deviation in the wrong direction.

You even cite XV's simple control scheme as a negative, as if complex button inputs are a good thing, Noctis has a stinger style attack with his spear, all i have to do is pull the analog stick down and hold to get him to do it, would it make the game better if i had to do 2 fast quarter circles to initiate the attack?

And to answer your question, yes of course there are videos of skilled XV/KH players who make highlight videos showing off what they can do.


This is a player beating the hardest enemy in the game with the weakest weapon in the game without taking damage.


Here's what appears to be a DMC player having fun with the XV combat.

Obviously these games don't have the depth or complexity of a game like DMC5 but that's also not what they're trying to do.
Exactly. Well said. Final Fantasy XV and Kingdom Hearts III may not be "hard" or games with "super deep combat full of hard-to-pull combos" and stuff. But that doesn´t mean they are shallow either.

On Final Fantasy XV I have the option of switching to a variety of weapons according to my enemies' weaknesses. I can cast magic that can freeze bodies of water like lakes and pools and have enemies stuck in there, ready for my assault. Or I can take advantage of the nerby vegetation to set it on fire and cause more expansive damage on hordes of enemies. Is it raining or are you standing near metallic surfaces? Cast Lighting Magic to increase its damage and reach. I can perform aerial attacks, switch weapons in mid-air, perform finishing moves, flank my enemies to blindside them, perform Link Strikes with my closest ally.

I can evade and counter attack, perform Cross Chains with my allies on fallen, vulnerable enemies for more damage. I can Warp Strike around the battlefield to more easily attack my enemies and/or get out of a pinch and recover some life.

I can evade attacks during aerial dancing, recover instantly and continue attacking without ever touching the ground.

I can issue commands to my friends, I can regroup them to my position in case I need to cast powerful spells, without needing to have full control over them.

Link Strikes are affected by which one of my comrades is closest, and which weapon I have equipped, resulting in really magnificent double and triple attacks.

I can switch my playable character for completely different combat approaches. Long distance attacks with Prompto. Massive damage and horde devastation with Gladiolus. Lighting-fast single target combat with Ignis...


I've been replaying Final Fantasy VII lately in anticipation for the remake, and that game is still my favorite FF game of all time, but all people complaining that XV "lacks depth" while praising the old games have no idea of what they are talking about. Most of the battles in the game are fought the same way, spam attack and the occasional spell or summon (Which are nothing else that cinematic spells). I reached Costa del Sol yesterday, and honestly, all the "depth and strategy" that people like to claim on these games is pretty much nonexistent.

Final Fantasy games have always been pretty easy for the most part, with the exception of some tough bosses. But the "hold X button to attach/defend/win" that people like to pull is incredibly disingenuous. The combat options ARE there. You don't want to use them? Fine. But they are there.
 

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR
Basically sounds like you don’t like it so it’s not viable. The argument you bring fourth about hearing it outside of threads for the game is some fluff tho anda bit comical considering it’s a high rated series and no matter where you look the ARPG combat is praised
Well, it's the case for everyone here isn't it? There's always some bias. I guess we're just not looking at the same places.
I would say self expression comes from however you choose to play a game. For KH you may choose to play largely aggressively, taking a dodge and attack approach or you might use summons and magic to control the flow of battle. I think the way magic works in KH is really interesting. They all have different ways in which they come out with different effects so knowing how to use them can lead to interesting situations. There are combo videos for both KH3 and FFXV (btw, I have a lot of problems with FFXV but I do think it has lots of options), there’s a lot of different ways you can play these games. You can finish a DMC game without buying new moves and play the game without any style and still finish it. There are a lot of different ways you can play a turn based game too. They way you use materia in FF7 says a lot about your play style.

I’m not sure I raelly understand your point about about things not nessisarly changing. In the original FF7, getting new skills, limit breaks, and magics doesn’t fundamentally change the ATB combat. Couldn’t you say the combat doesn’t become more meaningful as you get your new tools in FF7 too. You can also make every character play very similarly due to the materia system. For the record, I would have preferred if they had stayed true to the original and kept the ATB combat system.

As far as talking about KH outside of KH forums, I remember when they showed off new footage from YS9 at a game show a little while back people were talking about how the white haired character running up a building looked very similar to the same machanique in KH3. I used to talk to a friend of mine a lot about magic spells in ARPGs and I remember talking about magic in the KH series and the first Nier. I think you might be on to something though. Its hard for me to think about ARPGs without thinking of KH or YS (which are some of my favorites). Perhaps that influences how I see these conversations.

I think your points a valid though. The trailer doesn’t seem to portray the combat as super deep so you may be right. Sorry if I came off as aggressive in my last post.
Yeah no, you're right. ARPG is a pretty hard genre to define and to compare anyway.
And I'm definitely the one sounding aggressive there, so no worries lol.
 

Sanox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,426
This conversation reminded me thar Donguri did a KH3 vid

Not expecting to be able to do Tales stuff in FF7R but it sure would be great if the game had a few options in combat to have some fun
 

LowParry

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,689
Hmm. I suppose the big question is, will we have a jump or not. I would think there is, but if there's not, what exactly does that do to the combat? And remind me, did the Tales games have a jump?
 

Sanox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,426
Hmm. I suppose the big question is, will we have a jump or not. I would think there is, but if there's not, what exactly does that do to the combat? And remind me, did the Tales games have a jump?
The ones where attacking happens more from a side view allow you to jump other ones Graces, Zesteria, Berseria don't have a jump

Really hope FF7 has a jump. Let me launch someone with Cloud, air combo them with Tifa then finish them with Barret who charged a big shot or something
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
I'd love a more grounded take on combat...where you move around the map and have to really plan your strategy! Let's see the monsters actually hit hard and push the characters back when you have to block. stuff like that is so good to me