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Final Fantasy VII unused content

Oct 27, 2017
2,805
#59
The thing that stood out to me as a kid was the 1/35th soldier toy set or whatever it was in Midgar, drove me crazy that i couldn't collect them all.
Was it really a set? I thought so at first, but I eventually learned elsewhere that "?/??th" usually denotes size ratio to RL instances when discussing things like dolls and toys. I originally thought it meant there were 35 of them out there, but you only ever get two I think?


Every time I see that FF7 SNES mock-up I think about Xenogears. It's rumoured that another turned down FF7 pitch idea eventually became Xenogears, right?
 
OP
OP
Eylos
Oct 25, 2017
4,826
#60
Was it really a set? I thought so at first, but I eventually learned elsewhere that "?/??th" usually denotes size ratio to RL instances when discussing things like dolls and toys. I originally thought it meant there were 35 of them out there, but you only ever get two I think?


Every time I see that FF7 SNES mock-up I think about Xenogears. It's rumoured that another turned down FF7 pitch idea eventually became Xenogears, right?
Yes, Takahashi proposed xenogears story to FF7.
and yes 1/35 is scale
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1:35_scale
 
Nov 7, 2017
1,164
#61
Was it really a set? I thought so at first, but I eventually learned elsewhere that "?/??th" usually denotes size ratio to RL instances when discussing things like dolls and toys. I originally thought it meant there were 35 of them out there, but you only ever get two I think?


Every time I see that FF7 SNES mock-up I think about Xenogears. It's rumoured that another turned down FF7 pitch idea eventually became Xenogears, right?
A lot of crazy creative turns at Square back then. FFVIII AND FFX were both pitched by Kitase/Nojima to be original IPs, but were converted to FFs, where-as Xenogears and even elements of Parasite Eve and Chrono Cross were meant to be FFs.

Amazing time back then. Can’t even imagine all the internal meetings...
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,173
Missoula
#62
Wasn't that SNES screenshot just a fake mockup not indicative of anything actually in development, sort of like the Famicom FFIV?

Anyhow, this is always cool stuff to read about! The development history of this game is fascinating.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,920
#63
Vincent's original concept was a reporter/horror novelist rather than the weird vampire he ended up warping into, so I'm not surprised they transplanted an old, rejected Sephiroth design on top of him when they rewrote him for the ????th time.
 
OP
OP
Eylos
Oct 25, 2017
4,826
#64
Wasn't that SNES screenshot just a fake mockup not indicative of anything actually in development, sort of like the Famicom FFIV?

Anyhow, this is always cool stuff to read about! The development history of this game is fascinating.
that snes pic is in the ff7 ultimania book, they are made by square
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,075
#65
interesting, that forest seemed out of place
Yeah. Furthermore:


Dummied dialogue suggests a person in Bone Village gives details on the puzzles in Ancient Forest. The dialogue would allow the player to find information about Pitcher Plants (which carry insects and launch the character), "Big Eaters" (大喰らい, Ōgurai?) (not translated in the English version, shut and damage the player when ran over), and Inchworms (しゃくとり虫, Shakutori Mushi?) (the pink bouncy rope-like things that can be jumped onto). A dialogue-option for Scent Balls (くす玉草, Kusudama Sō?) (which neutralize Big Eaters) exists, but no dialogue for its explanation exists in the data.[1]

There is a cave visible in the Corel Valley forest exit area that has a vine leading up to it, but the cave does not have exit data, and the vine has no climb data. It is indicated it was originally the exit of the Ancient Forest due to the dummied dialogue from Bone Village, an unrelated location, but also the order of the fields in-game, which are almost entirely in visit-order, that place the Ancient Forest fields after the Sleeping Forest fields (which are after the Bone Village fields).[1]

The enemy Ho-chu that is only encountered on the Battle Square in the final game, may have been intended to be a special encounter in the Ancient Forest. If hacked into the game, the Ancient Forest version of the battle cannot be escaped from, and thus Ho-chu was probably meant as a special encounter.


Who knows why they changed it. Maybe they felt the puzzles in the forest were too frustrating for that point in the game but they already had the minidungeon finished so they just made it a bonus dungeon.




Was it really a set? I thought so at first, but I eventually learned elsewhere that "?/??th" usually denotes size ratio to RL instances when discussing things like dolls and toys. I originally thought it meant there were 35 of them out there, but you only ever get two I think?


Every time I see that FF7 SNES mock-up I think about Xenogears. It's rumoured that another turned down FF7 pitch idea eventually became Xenogears, right?
The description of the item in game is "Shinra armored "attack" soldiers: 12 in the set."

 
Oct 25, 2017
5,066
#66
In another alternate timeline, FF7 was set in New York and was about a detective named Hot Blooded Joe.

Yes, this is true
This was actually recently disputed by the developers. But I also think there was an actual interview about it where they did mention detective jo. So that suggests if it was an idea, it wasn’t one that went very far if no one can remember it any more.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,075
#67
This was actually recently disputed by the developers. But I also think there was an actual interview about it where they did mention detective jo. So that suggests if it was an idea, it wasn’t one that went very far if no one can remember it any more.
Well, it basically became Final Fantasy: The Spirit Within

Alien from space crashes into Earth and infects the lifestream.
 
OP
OP
Eylos
Oct 25, 2017
4,826
#70
This was actually recently disputed by the developers. But I also think there was an actual interview about it where they did mention detective jo. So that suggests if it was an idea, it wasn’t one that went very far if no one can remember it any more.
yeah the game was developed so fast, that i dont doubt something like that image of sephiroth looking like vincent and tifa being basicaly aerith, was something they are thinking in one day and the day after they changed that
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,971
France
#71
Every time I see that FF7 SNES mock-up I think about Xenogears. It's rumoured that another turned down FF7 pitch idea eventually became Xenogears, right?
Not a rumor :)

https://www.siliconera.com/2010/06/11/soraya-saga-on-xenogears-and-xenosaga/
Soraya Saga:
I and Tetsuya Takahashi originally submitted it as a script idea for Final Fantasy VII. While we were told that it was too dark and complicated for a fantasy, the boss was kind enough to give Takahashi a chance to launch a new project. Then Takahashi and I wrote up the full screenplay which contained cutscene-dialogues in final form, thus the project was born.

https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Iwata-As...Years/1-Reunion-After-Eight-Years-211179.html
Tetsuya Takahashi:
I was on the FF team up to VI. Partway through VII, I left the team. I stayed at the same company, but I was in charge of a separate team.
Satoru Iwata:
So how did you come to head up your own independent team, Takahashi-san?

Tetsuya Takahashi:
I recall going to see Sakaguchi-san and telling him that I was looking for a new challenge. That was when we were all in the middle of FFVII.

Takahashi used to work as a graphic director and field map artist on the FF series, so who knows, maybe it's not a coincidence that the field map in that FFVII SNES mock-up reminds you of Xenogears!
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,971
France
#72
A lot of crazy creative turns at Square back then. FFVIII AND FFX were both pitched by Kitase/Nojima to be original IPs, but were converted to FFs, where-as Xenogears and even elements of Parasite Eve and Chrono Cross were meant to be FFs.

Amazing time back then. Can’t even imagine all the internal meetings...
Chrono Cross was never meant to be an FF, and I don't recall FFVIII being pitched as an original IP either. The rest is definitely correct, though!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIG-C_FSjH8
Nomura's work on Final Fantasy X took place while he was also working on Kingdom Hearts, so it was a rather busy time for him personally. He noted that while they were in the middle of the game's development, they actually completely changed the entire scenario, and that left them wondering what the hell they were going to do with all the characters they created. In the end, they decided that only Tidus and Yuna would be retained for the final product. It means that characters like Wakka, Auron, and Rikku were only created following the complete restructure of the entire story.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/games-that-completely-changed-during-development.7767/#post-1312041
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,400
Toronto
#73
Really wish more was shown from this.
I don’t expect it was very far along in development, but surely there is more than this single screen somewhere...
That SNES shot is cool, I wish there was more footage of that version of the game.
The SNES screenshot was just a mockup to show the press and investors. It probably wasn't even composed in a game engine. Anything else that exists would be simple plot outlines and sketches. (Which I'd like to see, regardless.)

Every time I see that FF7 SNES mock-up I think about Xenogears. It's rumoured that another turned down FF7 pitch idea eventually became Xenogears, right?
When Cloud has his mental breakdown in FFFVII he mentions something cryptic called "Xenogears". It was just completely mangled in the translation to English because that game hadn't been announced yet.

 
Oct 25, 2017
8,971
France
#75
The SNES screenshot was just a mockup to show the press and investors. It probably wasn't even composed in a game engine. Anything else that exists would be simple plot outlines and sketches. (Which I'd like to see, regardless.)
It's a mockup, but I think it was composed in an actual game engine. In fact, it looks like a variant of the Chrono Trigger engine itself. Here's a raw screenshot of Chrono Trigger:



Notice the black bar at the bottom? CT didn't run in full screen; the game has a permanent black bar at the bottom of the screen (aside from a few cutscenes). If you use a cheat like GameShark to remove that black bar, it appears that the map tiles located behind it are glitchy. That glitch is probably a limitation of the CT engine and the only solution they found to fix it was to simply hide it behind a black bar.

Now look at the FFVII SNES screenshot again:



The bottom of the screen is also glitched! If it were just a visual mockup that Square quickly put together in Photoshop, I don't think they would have included that glitch at the bottom.


When Cloud has his mental breakdown in FFFVII he mentions something cryptic called "Xenogears". It was just completely mangled in the translation to English because that game hadn't been announced yet.

Xenogears also returned the favor by including a Tifa poster in Solaris:

 
Oct 27, 2017
181
#76
I don't think there is any truth to that part, especially the "until the last minute" bit, lol.
I don't think there's much truth to "until the last minute", but she definitely wasn't going to be in the game at first. She wasn't among the first characters to be designed: https://thelifestream.net/lifestrea...o-13-of-the-ffvii-10th-anniversary-ultimania/

Originally the main cast was just Cloud, Barrett, and Aerith: https://web.archive.org/web/20071011164522/http://ff7citadel.com/press/int_egm.shtml
 

Krejlooc

Dreamcast Porno Party
Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,715
#77
and I don't recall FFVIII being pitched as an original IP either
This longstanding rumor stems from a magazine -- either EGM or Game Informer or one of those -- from the release of the very first FFVIII demo, the one where you had sheeva in the town setting. I can't remember which magazine it was, but their write up of the demo noted that FFVIII was actually a different game until just a few months prior to the demo, when they turned it into a FF game. That's the first and only time I've ever seen a publication mention that. I can remember exactly where I was when I read that magazine -- I was in College Station, Tx visiting my sister. This was definitely before the release of FFVIII.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,971
France
#78
This was actually recently disputed by the developers. But I also think there was an actual interview about it where they did mention detective jo. So that suggests if it was an idea, it wasn’t one that went very far if no one can remember it any more.
Here are the quotes:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170816023944/http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98617
Tetsuya Nomura:
"I still have the drawings to Sakaguchi's original story. Around that time, Cloud didn't even exist. We had a duo who were the heroes of the game. I remember that one of them had rivets on the outfit and that they were chased by the police."

"The headlights and metropolitan feel are remains from our early interpretation of New York."

https://www.ign.com/articles/2007/06/04/ffvii-not-being-remade-nomura
IGN:
Nomura recalled the creation of the game's plot, which was originally written by Hironobu Sakaguchi, now of Mistwalker. Nomura, who claims to still have a copy of the plot, noted how "completely different" it is from the final version. "I think he wanted to do something like a detective story? There was a character called Hot Blooded Detective Joe."

The Midgar city was already in place at this point. The early part of the story that was written by Sakaguchi involved Detective Joe chasing after the main characters, who then blow up the city.

https://web.archive.org/web/2018040...ks-about-ffvii-nomura-sakaguchi-dq-ff.302056/
Yoshinori Kitase:
"I can still remember our very first meetings concerning FFVII there at the office, 14 years ago. We were just done with FFVI and simply wanted to keep going. The idea was to produce yet another SNES game, and Hironobu Sakaguchi explained to us that it was going to take place in the year 1999, in New York."
LEVEL Magazine:
When you look at Midgar and how modern it feels compared to previous towns in FF, it feels completely logical that a present-day New York was the model image. And I assume that these ideas also formed the basis for Parasite Eve and perhaps even a time period in Chrono Trigger?

Yoshinori Kitase:
Right, thats how it was. Many of us who took part in these early planning sessions worked in parallel on Chrono Trigger, and Sakaguchi went on to make Parasite Eve right after FFVII together with Tetsuya Nomura among other people. So some of the ideas we had at this stage ended up in those games instead.
LEVEL Magazine:
So then it was your turn to educate Sakaguchi.

Yoshinori Kitase:
Haha, yes, perhaps. But he wasnt as involved in the daily work with FFVII as I was. He wrote the original script, made up the guidelines for everything and created the overarching concepts. It was he who shaped the large metropolis that would become New York but was later transformed into Midgar, and the whole concept of the life stream came from his head.

https://www.polygon.com/a/final-fantasy-7
Tetsuya Nomura:
At that early point we were all still going back and forth about what the story should be. Nothing had been clearly decided on yet. … [In] the first plot treatment that Sakaguchi-san wrote, it took place in New York, there was an organization there that was trying to destroy the Mako Reactors and a character named Detective Joe was investigating them. There were other characters involved, too. One of the members of this organization trying to destroy the reactor was the prototype character for [eventual FF7 main character] Cloud.

Yoshinori Kitase:
I think I remember that you wrote some concept/planning documents too, right?

Tetsuya Nomura:
I did. I did.

Yoshinori Kitase:
But at that time Chrono Trigger’s development was in dire straits, so all the team members switched over to help with Chrono Trigger … and that’s as far as it went.

Hironobu Sakaguchi:
Ah, yes, that’s right. I remember now. It was when we consolidated everyone on Chrono Trigger. That’s right. Before we made Chrono Trigger, we had talked about making FF7, but then we moved everyone over to the Chrono Trigger team. I do recall now; I did write a scenario for FF7, a different story [than the one we eventually used]. I don’t remember it being in New York though. You know, I think the New York idea might be from Parasite Eve. And Joe, that’s actually the original name I had for the protagonist from Lost Odyssey. I don’t know, maybe all this information is getting mixed up somewhere.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,848
#79
This book has a lot of translation issues so don't take everything in it as true.

They were so lazy they used a photo of Ultimecia's K speech mistranslation.
This is the first I've heard about translation issues with Vol 2 anywhere, got any examples besides Ultimecia's K thing (which was likely more of a thing for nostalgia's sake than anything else)
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,386
#80
This is the first I've heard about translation issues with Vol 2 anywhere, got any examples besides Ultimecia's K thing (which was likely more of a thing for nostalgia's sake than anything else)
The Ultimania is supposed to be informative and provide correct information. Using an image of her speech mistranslation is inappropriate because it will make readers think it was intentional and not a translation issue. Another issue but this might be personal since I haven't confirmed if the Japanese side used it is labeling both Raijin and Fujin as Seifers followers when they evidently are his closest friends. I understand how follower could be used but that isn't their actual relationship with Seifer.

Some of the mistranslations on the VII side were:

- Stating Cloud asks Tifa on a date at Gold Saucer which not only is blatantly wrong considering we can look at the original game to disprove this but this isn't said in the Japanese, French or German versions.

- They mistranslated Clouds speech when Aerith dies

And basically a bunch of other weird translation choices that conflicted with the releases in other languages. It seemed like VII in particular suffered from this because all the changes were specifically related to VII's couples which is insane considering that shit shouldn't spill into official work but I doubt SE cares. I own the book and I just kind of put it way with the rest of the stuff I own after finishing it. There is some neat stuff in the books if you haven't seen a lot of the concept art already available online but otherwise I was disappointed in the quality, especially for VIII. It got the least amount of focus and putting a blatant and known mistranslation in it is ridiculous.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,971
France
#81
The Ultimania is supposed to be informative and provide correct information. Using an image of her speech mistranslation is inappropriate because it will make readers think it was intentional and not a translation issue. Another issue but this might be personal since I haven't confirmed if the Japanese side used it is labeling both Raijin and Fujin as Seifers followers when they evidently are his closest friends. I understand how follower could be used but that isn't their actual relationship with Seifer.

Some of the mistranslations on the VII side were:

- Stating Cloud asks Tifa on a date at Gold Saucer which not only is blatantly wrong considering we can look at the original game to disprove this but this isn't said in the Japanese, French or German versions.

- They mistranslated Clouds speech when Aerith dies

And basically a bunch of other weird translation choices that conflicted with the releases in other languages. It seemed like VII in particular suffered from this because all the changes were specifically related to VII's couples which is insane considering that shit shouldn't spill into official work but I doubt SE cares. I own the book and I just kind of put it way with the rest of the stuff I own after finishing it. There is some neat stuff in the books if you haven't seen a lot of the concept art already available online but otherwise I was disappointed in the quality, especially for VIII. It got the least amount of focus and putting a blatant and known mistranslation in it is ridiculous.
Is this the only "mistranslated" screenshot in the book? I was under the impression that they edited the screenshots of the Japanese book to make them match the official translations of the localized game.
 
OP
OP
Eylos
Oct 25, 2017
4,826
#82
I don't think there's much truth to "until the last minute", but she definitely wasn't going to be in the game at first. She wasn't among the first characters to be designed: https://thelifestream.net/lifestrea...o-13-of-the-ffvii-10th-anniversary-ultimania/

Originally the main cast was just Cloud, Barrett, and Aerith: https://web.archive.org/web/20071011164522/http://ff7citadel.com/press/int_egm.shtml
hmm that chart becomes complex to explain, they droped aerith one day? or someone got confused and changed tifa with aerith?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,386
#83
Is this the only "mistranslated" screenshot in the book? I was under the impression that they edited the screenshots of the Japanese book to make them match the official translations of the localized game.
For VIII it is the only screenshot mistranslated as far as I can tell since the rest are general scenes(I'm looking at it right now) that are a bit more difficult to confirm. It is obvious they were being lazy with the Ultimecia image considering they DID correctly translate that Squall's common phrase is 'Sorry' and not 'Whatever' which SE has now treated like an official translation. I also want to point out that they are using the PC version for images based off the text in the screenshots which I found kind of funny.

VII has more screenshots that are mistranslated.
 
Apr 26, 2018
1,138
#84
I took a look through this at a store today. A lot of good concept art for the variety of odd NPCs in IX.
A shame that they didn't put more official art in the strategy guide at the time, instead of filling the pages with obtuse, unhelpful web links.

Some of the developer ancedotes were also similar to those in the recent "Inside FFIX" video, so we know what experiences stuck out in their memories.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,029
#85
I didn't know the 4th disc full of bonus stuff existed until a year or two ago thanks to going down a youtube rabbit hole
 
Oct 27, 2017
181
#86
The Ultimania is supposed to be informative and provide correct information. Using an image of her speech mistranslation is inappropriate because it will make readers think it was intentional and not a translation issue. Another issue but this might be personal since I haven't confirmed if the Japanese side used it is labeling both Raijin and Fujin as Seifers followers when they evidently are his closest friends. I understand how follower could be used but that isn't their actual relationship with Seifer.

Some of the mistranslations on the VII side were:

- Stating Cloud asks Tifa on a date at Gold Saucer which not only is blatantly wrong considering we can look at the original game to disprove this but this isn't said in the Japanese, French or German versions.

- They mistranslated Clouds speech when Aerith dies

And basically a bunch of other weird translation choices that conflicted with the releases in other languages. It seemed like VII in particular suffered from this because all the changes were specifically related to VII's couples which is insane considering that shit shouldn't spill into official work but I doubt SE cares. I own the book and I just kind of put it way with the rest of the stuff I own after finishing it. There is some neat stuff in the books if you haven't seen a lot of the concept art already available online but otherwise I was disappointed in the quality, especially for VIII. It got the least amount of focus and putting a blatant and known mistranslation in it is ridiculous.
ehhhh having Ultimecia have Ks in her speech is more of a localization than a translation error, though. It's adding something that wasn't there originally, but not changing the meaning of what she's saying or making plot points unclear. we could argue the merits of localizations that change character quirks (Good/neutral/arguable: Teddie from Persona 4 didn't do bear puns in the original, Phoenix Wright keeps the main plot beats but changes names and locations, "You spoony bard!" from FFIV and the use of "espers" in VI weren't in the Japanese; bad: Squall's "whatever" replaces actual dialogue, "clones" in VII made audiences think of literal cloned people, Super Mario Galaxy using slang in French) but that's not the same thing, y'know?

hmm that chart becomes complex to explain, they droped aerith one day? or someone got confused and changed tifa with aerith?
Huh? Are you referring to this one? It's a pretty easy explanation: it was from later in development than many other story elements, is all.
 
OP
OP
Eylos
Oct 25, 2017
4,826
#87
I took a look through this at a store today. A lot of good concept art for the variety of odd NPCs in IX.

A shame that they didn't put more official art in the strategy guide at the time, instead of filling the pages with obtuse, unhelpful web links.

Some of the developer ancedotes were also similar to those in the recent "Inside FFIX" video, so we know what experiences stuck out in their memories.
yeah the art chapter of thenpcs in FFIX is very cool indeed
ehhhh having Ultimecia have Ks in her speech is more of a localization than a translation error, though. It's adding something that wasn't there originally, but not changing the meaning of what she's saying or making plot points unclear. we could argue the merits of localizations that change character quirks (Good/neutral/arguable: Teddie from Persona 4 didn't do bear puns in the original, Phoenix Wright keeps the main plot beats but changes names and locations, "You spoony bard!" from FFIV and the use of "espers" in VI weren't in the Japanese; bad: Squall's "whatever" replaces actual dialogue, "clones" in VII made audiences think of literal cloned people, Super Mario Galaxy using slang in French) but that's not the same thing, y'know?



Huh? Are you referring to this one? It's a pretty easy explanation: it was from later in development than many other story elements, is all.
oh got it
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,848
#88
The Ultimania is supposed to be informative and provide correct information. Using an image of her speech mistranslation is inappropriate because it will make readers think it was intentional and not a translation issue. Another issue but this might be personal since I haven't confirmed if the Japanese side used it is labeling both Raijin and Fujin as Seifers followers when they evidently are his closest friends. I understand how follower could be used but that isn't their actual relationship with Seifer.

Some of the mistranslations on the VII side were:

- Stating Cloud asks Tifa on a date at Gold Saucer which not only is blatantly wrong considering we can look at the original game to disprove this but this isn't said in the Japanese, French or German versions.

- They mistranslated Clouds speech when Aerith dies

And basically a bunch of other weird translation choices that conflicted with the releases in other languages. It seemed like VII in particular suffered from this because all the changes were specifically related to VII's couples which is insane considering that shit shouldn't spill into official work but I doubt SE cares. I own the book and I just kind of put it way with the rest of the stuff I own after finishing it. There is some neat stuff in the books if you haven't seen a lot of the concept art already available online but otherwise I was disappointed in the quality, especially for VIII. It got the least amount of focus and putting a blatant and known mistranslation in it is ridiculous.
So I'm looking at the book right now and the Raijin and Fujin thing is a little bit nitpicky, but the relationship chart in these are always used more as cursory alignment chart than anything else (in terms of marriage, faction alliance, who killed who, etc). Raijin and Fujin says "follows" which is technically a true statement. As for Ultimecia's dialogue being inappropriate, I really don't see it that way. Hell, it seems like with all of the stuff in the Ultimanias, they're using the same screenshots but imported the localized speech since the fonts don't really match. In this specific case, you have one screen shot that shows her K thing.

I don't know if this was more of a thing from higher up considering all of this is lifted from the official localizations (even Cloud's speech, for God's sake, even let's mosey made it in), but I don't know if these were ever intended to be 1:1 translations as opposed to providing as much background info as possible while feeding into the nostalgia.

The Gold Saucer thing does have an error, but I mean... you fix that just by reversing the parties
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
8,971
France
#89
EGM: At the very end of FFVII, we see the epilogue to the whole story that takes place 500 years later, so really, you still have another 497 years' worth of games and movies to fill in....
YK: Ha, maybe I'll try to do that. In a way, I consider that epilogue to be the true happy ending of FFVII. Well, it's a happy ending even though all the human beings are destroyed. [Laughs]
Holy shit!!!!!
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,386
#90
ehhhh having Ultimecia have Ks in her speech is more of a localization than a translation error, though. It's adding something that wasn't there originally, but not changing the meaning of what she's saying or making plot points unclear. we could argue the merits of localizations that change character quirks (Good/neutral/arguable: Teddie from Persona 4 didn't do bear puns in the original, Phoenix Wright keeps the main plot beats but changes names and locations, "You spoony bard!" from FFIV and the use of "espers" in VI weren't in the Japanese; bad: Squall's "whatever" replaces actual dialogue, "clones" in VII made audiences think of literal cloned people, Super Mario Galaxy using slang in French) but that's not the same thing, y'know?



Huh? Are you referring to this one? It's a pretty easy explanation: it was from later in development than many other story elements, is all.
You are correct however the actual speech is imo quite different in Japanese too though I was hoping there would be more confirmation for this. The Japanese version conveys Ultimecia's feelings more clearly and doesn't really make her into this cartoony laughing evil villain like the english does.


Japanese:
“…eeD…
SeeD…SeeD…
SeeD, SeeD, SeeD!!
It displeases me…
Why do you interfere with sorceresses!?
Why won’t you let me be free!?
In just a little longer, my perfect world of time compression would have been completed…
I won’t allow you to interfere…
Your very existences shall be absorbed by the algorithm of time compression!!
You will feel agony as your thoughts are ripped apart and all your memories fade away to nothing.
There won’t be a thing you can do, think or even feel!
That’s the world I’m going to send you to!
There will be absolutely nothing you can…
…No, you’ll be able to worship me, the sole existence for all eternity!!
So, who will come first!?
Who will fight me!?
Hmpf, it matters not, the end will be the same!
I will choose!”
English:
“…SeeD… SeeD……SeeD…… SeeD, SeeD, SeeD! Kurse all SeeDs. Swarming like lokusts akross generations. You disgust me. The world was on the brink of that ever-elusive ‘time kompression’. Insolent fools! Your vain krusade ends here, SeeDs. The price for your meddling is death beyond death. I shall send you to a dimension beyond your imagining. There, I will reign, and you will be my slaves for eternity. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Whom shall I exterminate first!? I’ll start with you three!”
So I'm looking at the book right now and the Raijin and Fujin thing is a little bit nitpicky, but the relationship chart in these are always used more as cursory alignment chart than anything else (in terms of marriage, faction alliance, who killed who, etc). Raijin and Fujin says "follows" which is technically a true statement. As for Ultimecia's dialogue being inappropriate, I really don't see it that way. Hell, it seems like with all of the stuff in the Ultimanias, they're using the same screenshots but imported the localized speech since the fonts don't really match. In this specific case, you have one screen shot that shows her K thing.

I don't know if this was more of a thing from higher up considering all of this is lifted from the official localizations (even Cloud's speech), but I don't know if these were ever intended to be 1:1 translations as opposed to providing as much background info as possible while feeding into the nostalgia.

The Gold Saucer thing does have an error, but I mean... you fix that just by reversing the parties
I don't know maybe my expectations are off but Ultimania's have always been known as huge sources of information provided about the game itself that either was speculated or left unknown but confirmed in the books. All the Ultimania's have gone into great detail but most are in Japanese so I guess with one of the first big english releases I wanted something as accurate as possible so that I could understand what the japanese side was conveying especially since the Japanese version is the original source.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
8,971
France
#91
Hell, it seems like with all of the stuff in the Ultimanias, they're using the same screenshots but imported the localized speech since the fonts don't really match. In this specific case, you have one screen shot that shows her K thing.
Yup, that's what I meant in my post.
 
Oct 28, 2017
14,488
#94
I thought this was obvious. At least everyone I've ever talked to about it online has thought this was the case. It's a guess but because you see no one else and you see Midgar totally overgrown, it seemed like a reasonable assumption.
 
OP
OP
Eylos
Oct 25, 2017
4,826
#99
It's a mockup, but I think it was composed in an actual game engine. In fact, it looks like a variant of the Chrono Trigger engine itself. Here's a raw screenshot of Chrono Trigger:



Notice the black bar at the bottom? CT didn't run in full screen; the game has a permanent black bar at the bottom of the screen (aside from a few cutscenes). If you use a cheat like GameShark to remove that black bar, it appears that the map tiles located behind it are glitchy. That glitch is probably a limitation of the CT engine and the only solution they found to fix it was to simply hide it behind a black bar.

Now look at the FFVII SNES screenshot again:



The bottom of the screen is also glitched! If it were just a visual mockup that Square quickly put together in Photoshop, I don't think they would have included that glitch at the bottom.




Xenogears also returned the favor by including a Tifa poster in Solaris:

y
i knew about xenogears but that chrono trigger engine is something new to me, very interesting