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Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age |OT| It Buys Itself
- Thread starter Dreamboum
- Start date
There is allrdy a mod to remove the blue hp bars: https://www.nexusmods.com/finalfantasy12/mods/4
Lol the story is basically Star Wars (The Hidden Fortress more specifically from which both borrowed) what's there not to understand? I really don't get complaints like that, it's not exactly War and Peace.
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Finished it, with Yiazmat defeated, all espers and the Great Crystal fully explored. It's my favourite modern FF.
I just have one big nitpick. I dislike how the endgame content is designed specifically for the player to buy a guide. Like, how I am supposed to know that this or that chest containing super useful gear or spell has a % of spawning. Or how the heck do you even navigate the Great Crystal without one. Or how are you supposed to know that to go after Zodiark you need 10 espers and then go to speak to this random NPC. Don't get me started with the whole Hunt Club & Rare Game affair.
It's disgusting. Thankfully in 2018 there's YouTube.
I just have one big nitpick. I dislike how the endgame content is designed specifically for the player to buy a guide. Like, how I am supposed to know that this or that chest containing super useful gear or spell has a % of spawning. Or how the heck do you even navigate the Great Crystal without one. Or how are you supposed to know that to go after Zodiark you need 10 espers and then go to speak to this random NPC. Don't get me started with the whole Hunt Club & Rare Game affair.
It's disgusting. Thankfully in 2018 there's YouTube.
Gil will come with farming. Sell your loot. Not really a better way other than the cheat to give you full gil. With the 4x fast forward pretty much everywhere is good for farming. Dustia farming is the best but honestly it's quite boring compared to just clearing out every area. Find a good area and clear it out completely go two areas away and then back, everything will respawn.
yeah, i've never understood that complaint. the story is really straightforward.
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It does start to get weird then the gods and whatever come into the picture. The first half is pretty straightforward.
Unfortunately controller vibration doesn't seem to work at all if you use a DualShock 4 natively (for me at least), which is really disappointing. Has anyone gotten that to work? It's fine on XInput.
The actual endgame is arguably more straightforward than the earlier parts - while there's not a great deal of backstory given to the non-Venat Occuria covering what they actually are, whether they're intended to be read as creators (and therefore would be the gods the Espers/Lucavi rebelled against) or manipulators that were either created by a human civilisation or used to be human themselves (which is one way of taking Giruvegan); as well as their more direct motivations for wanting to oversee the world and the material impact of their past influence beyond 'just' Raithwall - how that pertains to the plot is clear enough, just underexplored.
Even if it's not ideal, I don't have that many complaints with how the central story was structured - the more notable omission for me was the lack of more low-key interactions between the party to get more of a sense of their developing character dynamics beyond a couple of lines in the background of a scene or too-short moments like their arrival in upper Archades where there's space to breathe between more major events. It feels like the characters are more detached than they should be, but not as an intentional decision - in smaller glimpses, it's clear the developers want you to feel like they're growing closer together, but they didn't really give that angle the time it needed. Things like the bond between Penelo and Fran that were lightly touched on could have been expanded into material for characters that really didn't get a great deal to do; and would make sense regarding their backstories.
Just made it to the Phon Coast. I've been waiting to hear this music, it's easily one of my favorite Sakimoto tracks.
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I learned recently it was supposed to be the final boss theme, before it was deemed to be too upbeat. I could see what they were aiming for with this music.
Oh hell yes. Already the tools in place to make my own license boards for custom challenges? Gonna have a lot of fun with this. I like that it even comes with some nice preset boards like the original FF12 one.
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The modding discord said it would be possible to go back to the Vanilla licence board
It's been possible to go back to the original board for a while now using cheat engine. Using a cheat table with a job change, you can basically just switch to job 13 which is just the original board.
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Good to know, thanks. I think at the very least we're getting closer and closer to the possibility of a hard mode. Or at least a deep, thoughtful rebalancing of the game and the two jobs system.
Ploid did a PC Mod thread btw : https://www.resetera.com/threads/final-fantasy-xii-the-zodiac-age-pc-mod-thread.24066/
Vaan being the butt of every joke never ceases to amuse me.
Vaan: "You're our princess and we didn't even recognize you."
Ashe: "I noticed."
Vaan: "You're our princess and we didn't even recognize you."
Ashe: "I noticed."
At the end of my new game minus playthrough. You need to know how classes get changed in this mode, and you need to use the equip change trick liberally, but otherwise it's pretty much the same game. Not really much of a hard mode. I'll do one final playthrough (took me 1:10 to make it to the sandsea) for playing with some different class combos, finish up my last two achievements, and then I'll likely be done with the game. That'll be six full playthroughs of various versions of this game, all with every hunt completed, over the course of mostly the last couple years.
It's a weird game to think about critically. I hate almost every individual aspect of it.
I hate what the drastic tonal shifting and subgenre blending do to the storytelling. I hated the weak politicking when I played it 12 years ago and I still hate it now. I hate how tremendously boring the fantasy adventure is at almost every moment of the game. Each of the two tonal styles severely limit each other, with the game being neither a decent political drama, nor a decent fantasy adventure, nor even a decent blending of the two. I hate every character in the game, less due to a weakness in the characters themselves, and more due to them never getting to do anything fun or interesting. They're victims of the same tonal issues. I hate how each of the game's acts are split into three different pacing philosophies, with the first act being too linear, the second act being too open, and the third act being a pair of dungeons no one except me seems to enjoy. The second act is particularly problematic, as the plot just kind of disappears altogether. We go from setup to nothing to supernatural. The second act is typically where jrpg stories shine. I hate how the game frequently teases you with beautiful vistas (think Giruvegan) just to settle back into another nondescript sequence of hallways. I hate how barebones the main story route is in general. I especially hate how much of said barebones is taken up by minigames you only do once.
I never bothered to head into the final dungeon in either one of my IZJS playthroughs. I didn't bother watching a single cutscene (aside from the excellent opening sequence) in this version of the game. Not going to waste my time.
The gameplay, the reason why I play this game, isn't without constant annoyances. I hate how poor most of the main story dungeons are. I hate how poor most of the main story bosses are. I especially hate how good the game is at convincing new players that poor is all you get. I hate how obscure many of the spawning and/or door opening requirements are for optional bosses and hunts. I hate that I don't know whether I hate the obscure requirements or inane minigames more. I hate that the quality gap between story content and optional content is so gigantic. I hate that you have to metabalance to a significant extent to get the best combat experience, especially when you're a new player and don't understand how the good part of the game is structured yet. I hate how many bosses are inexplicably resistant and in some cases outright immune to every element in the game. I hate how libra is disabled for every relevant enemy in the game, effectively forcing me to keep a second monitor up with a wiki showing to avoid having to go through the tedium of testing elements. I hate palings wasting my time. I hate double palings wasting my time. I hate how rigid the conditions are to swap how party members, especially when palings are wasting my time and the enemy is chaincasting on my party to further waste my time. I hate regular enemies you frequently fight having status ga level spells. I hate how I don't care about most gambits but the gambit system is too limited to provide what I would actually care to use. I hate how inconsistent the tell box (X is casting Y spell get ready…) is for important spells, especially in trial mode where the game has you fighting more than the tell box can usefully display.
Don't get me started on traps in a game where you can't control full party movement.
You know what though? Once you get past the obscurity and learn the metabalancing route, the optional content in this game is great. Like, really great. Like, greatest of all time great. Everytime I get annoyed at all the nonsense this game is filled with, there's another great gameplay moment other games aren't coming anywhere close to. I used to think early necrohol was a sequence break. I've since realized how much effort was put into the specific details of the experience. From the optional boss that functions as a tutorial, to the pile of traps serving a final warning to players not knowing what they're getting into, to the enemy groupings in the dungeon itself pushing the player without going overboard even a single time, to the genius incorporation of a rare spawn that functions as an implicit timer, to the horror theme running through the whole place mirroring your dwinding resources, to the lack of a save point keeping the gameplay tense, to the lack of a boss that's possible to fight early removing a potential gotcha to players doing the whole thing for the first time, TO THE FACT THAT THERE ARE VERY SPECIFIC PIECES OF EQUIPMENT IN THE STORY ROUTE AT VERY SPECIFIC LOCATIONS THAT FUNCTION AS IMPLIED DIFFICULTY SETTINGS FOR THIS ONE DUNGEON NO THESE CAPS AREN'T A MISTAKE SERIOUSLY THIS IS INSANE…
…and that's just one example. It's the best example. But it's still just one example. The game is full of best in genre combat (top three) and possibility best in genre optional content design in general. It's a disappointment every time I play a game that doesn't feature some variation on hunts. I've certainly had to deal with an insane amount of nonsense in my time with this game, but it's never worn me down. It's been plenty worth it.
It's a weird game to think about critically. I hate almost every individual aspect of it.
I hate what the drastic tonal shifting and subgenre blending do to the storytelling. I hated the weak politicking when I played it 12 years ago and I still hate it now. I hate how tremendously boring the fantasy adventure is at almost every moment of the game. Each of the two tonal styles severely limit each other, with the game being neither a decent political drama, nor a decent fantasy adventure, nor even a decent blending of the two. I hate every character in the game, less due to a weakness in the characters themselves, and more due to them never getting to do anything fun or interesting. They're victims of the same tonal issues. I hate how each of the game's acts are split into three different pacing philosophies, with the first act being too linear, the second act being too open, and the third act being a pair of dungeons no one except me seems to enjoy. The second act is particularly problematic, as the plot just kind of disappears altogether. We go from setup to nothing to supernatural. The second act is typically where jrpg stories shine. I hate how the game frequently teases you with beautiful vistas (think Giruvegan) just to settle back into another nondescript sequence of hallways. I hate how barebones the main story route is in general. I especially hate how much of said barebones is taken up by minigames you only do once.
I never bothered to head into the final dungeon in either one of my IZJS playthroughs. I didn't bother watching a single cutscene (aside from the excellent opening sequence) in this version of the game. Not going to waste my time.
The gameplay, the reason why I play this game, isn't without constant annoyances. I hate how poor most of the main story dungeons are. I hate how poor most of the main story bosses are. I especially hate how good the game is at convincing new players that poor is all you get. I hate how obscure many of the spawning and/or door opening requirements are for optional bosses and hunts. I hate that I don't know whether I hate the obscure requirements or inane minigames more. I hate that the quality gap between story content and optional content is so gigantic. I hate that you have to metabalance to a significant extent to get the best combat experience, especially when you're a new player and don't understand how the good part of the game is structured yet. I hate how many bosses are inexplicably resistant and in some cases outright immune to every element in the game. I hate how libra is disabled for every relevant enemy in the game, effectively forcing me to keep a second monitor up with a wiki showing to avoid having to go through the tedium of testing elements. I hate palings wasting my time. I hate double palings wasting my time. I hate how rigid the conditions are to swap how party members, especially when palings are wasting my time and the enemy is chaincasting on my party to further waste my time. I hate regular enemies you frequently fight having status ga level spells. I hate how I don't care about most gambits but the gambit system is too limited to provide what I would actually care to use. I hate how inconsistent the tell box (X is casting Y spell get ready…) is for important spells, especially in trial mode where the game has you fighting more than the tell box can usefully display.
Don't get me started on traps in a game where you can't control full party movement.
You know what though? Once you get past the obscurity and learn the metabalancing route, the optional content in this game is great. Like, really great. Like, greatest of all time great. Everytime I get annoyed at all the nonsense this game is filled with, there's another great gameplay moment other games aren't coming anywhere close to. I used to think early necrohol was a sequence break. I've since realized how much effort was put into the specific details of the experience. From the optional boss that functions as a tutorial, to the pile of traps serving a final warning to players not knowing what they're getting into, to the enemy groupings in the dungeon itself pushing the player without going overboard even a single time, to the genius incorporation of a rare spawn that functions as an implicit timer, to the horror theme running through the whole place mirroring your dwinding resources, to the lack of a save point keeping the gameplay tense, to the lack of a boss that's possible to fight early removing a potential gotcha to players doing the whole thing for the first time, TO THE FACT THAT THERE ARE VERY SPECIFIC PIECES OF EQUIPMENT IN THE STORY ROUTE AT VERY SPECIFIC LOCATIONS THAT FUNCTION AS IMPLIED DIFFICULTY SETTINGS FOR THIS ONE DUNGEON NO THESE CAPS AREN'T A MISTAKE SERIOUSLY THIS IS INSANE…
…and that's just one example. It's the best example. But it's still just one example. The game is full of best in genre combat (top three) and possibility best in genre optional content design in general. It's a disappointment every time I play a game that doesn't feature some variation on hunts. I've certainly had to deal with an insane amount of nonsense in my time with this game, but it's never worn me down. It's been plenty worth it.
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I am really having a great time. Great effort put in to the cutscenes, and the subtlety and nuance in expressions and animations are really well done. The world building is also neat so far.
I didn't like the fact that Bhujerba's port looked the same as Rabanastre's. I also noticed the same NPC at both the ports saying the same things. It feels cheap like some Tales game when I notice it.
Anyway! Upto the Lhusu mines so far. My question if anyone knows: Can you get Maximillian and Germinas Boots from these mines at this first visit?
I didn't like the fact that Bhujerba's port looked the same as Rabanastre's. I also noticed the same NPC at both the ports saying the same things. It feels cheap like some Tales game when I notice it.
Anyway! Upto the Lhusu mines so far. My question if anyone knows: Can you get Maximillian and Germinas Boots from these mines at this first visit?
Was that the attendants, or the family traveling with their child? The latter being at every aerodrome is actually part of a sidequest,
Is that so? Fair enough then. It did feel odd that only that family was repeated, and not others. Thanks.
Nope to both. They're third visit only. Phon Coast is the earliest you can get them.
(You can get Maximillian earlier as a rare drop from the winged enemies in Necrohol.)
man i forgot how fucking annoying those mandragora can be if you aren't prepared. completely fluffed up my first attempt because I forgot that fight existed
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Yeah it has been cracked, I guess this will give more avenue for modding, though
It does ! Haven't done it yet on my save file though...the game is already too easy as it is.
Wow, just beat this on PS4 and this is probably my favorite ending to a Final Fantasy. And I get the hype about Ivalice, it really clicked for me at the end.
So here's a question: What's the best, easiest to use guide for selling loot and getting Bazaar items? I've seen a few online and they're very basic and hard to follow without going item by item. I kinda want something that goes: here's what to aim for around this level/area, here's what you can sell, and here's what monsters to farm to find the rarer ingredients.
Nope. Dungeon crawling is the game.
I personally love it and the overall design, but can easily see why it would not work for some people.
If what you care about are plot sequences and focused mandatory story content, dungeon crawling is indeed the game. That won't ever change.
If, on the other hand, you're into non-linear exploration and strong gameplay oriented optional content, the completion of the Tomb of Raithwall is the specific point where the game finally becomes enjoyable. It's where the game opens up.
I played through the game on PS4 but I'd just like to say this:
This time around, I was really able to notice the drop in quality in the writing from the beginning to the end. I would say the story basically gives up on itself after the party escapes the Leviathan. Beforehand, I was genuinely captivated by the story. It was exciting, it was well-paced, and I was invested.
After that, it's literally just trekking to the Tomb for Ancient Artifact 1, then convenient story progression for about 20 minutes. Then you trek to Jahara to ask about Ancient Artifacts. Then it's kinda just trekking through the Golmore and Ozmone areas for a while. Then it's a trek to Mt. Bur-Omisace for more info on Ancient Artifacts. Then you go to the Stilshrine for Ancient Artifact 2. Then it's the trek to Archades for more info on Ancient Artifacts. Then you go to Giruvegan for Ancient Artifact 3. Then you go to Pharos for Ancient Artifact 4. Then it's the end.
The story and characters felt so empty.
Despite this, I liked the game, and the last hour of the game was great. I just wouldn't want another FF like this again, and I feel like people who praise the characters and story are really giving it more credit than it deserves. It's not only straightforward, it's shallow.
And in this version they made the License Board even worse. I didn't like the job system at all. All it did was handicap my party.
This time around, I was really able to notice the drop in quality in the writing from the beginning to the end. I would say the story basically gives up on itself after the party escapes the Leviathan. Beforehand, I was genuinely captivated by the story. It was exciting, it was well-paced, and I was invested.
After that, it's literally just trekking to the Tomb for Ancient Artifact 1, then convenient story progression for about 20 minutes. Then you trek to Jahara to ask about Ancient Artifacts. Then it's kinda just trekking through the Golmore and Ozmone areas for a while. Then it's a trek to Mt. Bur-Omisace for more info on Ancient Artifacts. Then you go to the Stilshrine for Ancient Artifact 2. Then it's the trek to Archades for more info on Ancient Artifacts. Then you go to Giruvegan for Ancient Artifact 3. Then you go to Pharos for Ancient Artifact 4. Then it's the end.
The story and characters felt so empty.
Despite this, I liked the game, and the last hour of the game was great. I just wouldn't want another FF like this again, and I feel like people who praise the characters and story are really giving it more credit than it deserves. It's not only straightforward, it's shallow.
And in this version they made the License Board even worse. I didn't like the job system at all. All it did was handicap my party.
since i missed those $20 or so steelbook copies at target, anyone else seen a price drop near that for those versions?
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The Leviathan is 10 hours into the game. That's like me saying there's no story in Bhujerba because I have to go through the Lhusu Mines. There's a whole lot of plot after it. The Sandsea re-introduces Vossler, you get to know about the Dynast-King, espers, the shard, then you have everything that happens on the Ifrit.
Jahara tells you a bunch of important things both about the plot, the stone, and the characters at the same time. Golmore is whole bunch of cutscenes about Fran's character arc and the meddling of Imperials that tells you about the influence of manufacted nethicites.
Walking through areas =/= No plot. It's a big ass game, Bur-Omisace is literally one of the most important plot points of the whole story. What is really missing here ? Except that you have to walk through areas ? And there are even cutscenes sprinkled in-between those areas.
At this rate, I could play this game with any FF.
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They haven't. It's pretty much as is, even in terms of item requirement for Tournesol.
I'm not saying there's no plot after Leviathan, I'm saying that it loses its depth. Obviously I'm simplifying it by saying it's just trekking and grabbing artifacts I don't literally mean that.
All the examples you provide aren't much at all. I still know nothing about Fran other than the fact that she is very sensitive to Mist and she decided to leave her village which caused her to be shunned, and has stuck with Balthier because he's an exciting man who travels the world. You could say something like "Eruyt Village showcased the plight that Fran constantly buries in her heart. She constantly yearned to be aware of the outside world but it went against the law of the Viera. She cast aside her sisters and risked being shunned forever for the sake of knowledge and freedom. How can you say that it's shallow?" But it is what it is... that's nothing special and nothing very in-depth, it's like the bare, bare minimum for any RPG party member. You still barely know Fran as a character and this goes for most of the cast.
No, not at all, outside of XV, which also has a hollow main story, though its characters are even more shallow and the story is far worse. Other FF's are far more character-centric and you get to know the characters more.
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Your post was very much akin to say FF7 collapses after Midgar. A drop in pacing doesn't mean a drop in quality.
And I don't know what more you wanted from Fran who gets to resolve her arc, and have enough perspective when it comes to the various vieras around the world to know it is a lonely path and often one of deep regret.
Saying more would just be overwriting her character and dilute the point. Continuing with FF7, Red XIII isn't having some primetime beyond his own arc in Cosmo Canyon, and he still remains an incredible character for what he managed to offer and what he managed to resolve for himself. He carries his pride just like Fran carries her weight. If going to the village of somebody, knowing their family, their relations, their plight, their intentions isn't enough to know the character, then I don't think many JRPG characters really manages to fit that bill at all.
I never said a drop in pacing equals a drop in quality of writing. If you want me to be specific: yes, the game felt like little more than an artifact chase to me. The Occuria subplot was very underdeveloped, Venat was underdeveloped, Dr. Cid gets a criminally low amount of screen time (and the Judges in general), and the party members barely felt like a group and they absolutely did not feel like friends (before you say they aren't, Vaan's "you've got good friends" line in Bahamut says otherwise).
Well... yes. That goes without saying that leaving a group, alone, is lonely. She hardly ever talks and is only there to spout some exposition and to notify the party if there's a lot of Mist. That's really all there is to her character. Anything more is just headcanon. How can you be satisfied with that?
Where XII excels in is its world building. The lore behind the summons, for instance, is fascinating. The lore behind Nabudis is fascinating. I thought Reddas was an intriguing character and I liked how you obtained some more backstory if you ran around and spoke to NPC's in Balfonheim.
But main story-wise, XII is poorly-paced, boring (IMO of course), and has characters with extremely shallow (and a low amount of) interactions. And in this case, XII's story falling off a cliff is a universal complaint because it's true.
What? We've gotten the XIII trilogy (which includes a top 5 game in the series in XIII-2), XIV, and even XV which has a lot going for it despite development hell.
Picked the wrong three Quickenings on Shikari without paying attention and now locked out of being able to use Yagyu Darkblade RIP
