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OP
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Dreamboum

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,865
So I can't find the english translation of this thing, Apotheosis apparently isn't correct. The "super powerful cinematic techniques", what are they called? And the actual question is: since apparently when you acquire one it disappears from the others checkboards, do you need to choose to which character give it? Or every character has is own?

Quickenings ? Everyone has access to three quickenings, since there are 18 of them in the board. You just have to figure out which one is the most important for each character since they unlock a bridge towards interesting and less interesting licenses
 

SirNinja

One Winged Slayer
Member
So I can't find the english translation of this thing, Apotheosis apparently isn't correct. The "super powerful cinematic techniques", what are they called? And the actual question is: since apparently when you acquire one it disappears from the others checkboards, do you need to choose to which character give it? Or every character has is own?
Not 100% sure what you're talking about, but there are indeed Licenses that only one character can ever obtain, for Espers (summons). Once one character gets an Esper, its license square disappears from everyone else's board, which can potentially lock them out of obtaining powerful licenses.

There are also licenses for Quickenings, which are powerful techniques that party members can chain together. Only three of these can be obtained per character - all the other license squares (for that character only) disappear once they've unlocked three, which can also lock them out from reaching other license squares.
 
Oct 25, 2017
538
Not 100% sure what you're talking about, but there are indeed Licenses that only one character can ever obtain, for Espers (summons). Once one character gets an Esper, its license square disappears from everyone else's board, which can potentially lock them out of obtaining powerful licenses.

There are also licenses for Quickenings, which are powerful techniques that party members can chain together. Only three of these can be obtained per character - all the other license squares (for that character only) disappear once they've unlocked three, which can also lock them out from reaching other license squares.
Yeah the quickenings! So I should be careful of which I unlock?
 

SirNinja

One Winged Slayer
Member
Yeah the quickenings! So I should be careful of which I unlock?
For the Quickenings, you should be at least a little careful. As a general rule, don't ever buy a Quickening that isn't blocking the way to a set of licenses. As another: if a Quickening is blocking the way to licenses you want, make sure that the Quickening is the only way to get to them. Any license you buy on one board will be activated on the other, so you can sometimes get lucky by obtaining a license on one job that happens to be a license that's on an "island" in another.

Mostly, it's the Espers you need to be careful about, because they can only be activated by a single character. The party planner from the OP is very useful here, as it basically tells you which Esper is blocking what ability for each class.
 
Oct 25, 2017
538
For the Quickenings, you should be at least a little careful. As a general rule, don't ever buy a Quickening that isn't blocking the way to a set of licenses. As another: if a Quickening is blocking the way to licenses you want, make sure that the Quickening is the only way to get to them. Any license you buy on one board will be activated on the other, so you can sometimes get lucky by obtaining a license on one job that happens to be a license that's on an "island" in another.

Mostly, it's the Espers you need to be careful about, because they can only be activated by a single character. The party planner from the OP is very useful here, as it basically tells you which Esper is blocking what ability for each class.
Is this problem present only if the characters share a class? If my main party has all different classes can I just buy the quickening?
I mean, from what I understand every character has a quickening, like vaan:
Vaan
Red Spiral
White Whorl
Pyroclasm
So what's the problem for example if I buy the red spiral?
 

SirNinja

One Winged Slayer
Member
Is this problem present only if the characters share a class? If my main party has all different classes can I just buy the quickening?
I mean, from what I understand every character has a quickening, like vaan:

So what's the problem for example if I buy the red spiral?

The problem is there pretty much regardless of what class you choose for everyone, as all 12 license boards have those little "islands" of licenses which you can only access by getting an Esper/quickening or by activating the license on the character's second board.

The problem is not buying an Esper/Quickening in and of itself. The problem is whether or not you're buying it in the right place. Some of them are just dead ends that offer no additional benefit once bought, but many act as bridges to licenses you may not otherwise be able to obtain.
 

devSin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,196
Is this problem present only if the characters share a class? If my main party has all different classes can I just buy the quickening?
I mean, from what I understand every character has a quickening, like vaan:

So what's the problem for example if I buy the red spiral?
Quickenings are distinguished by cost. You have 50, 75, 100, and 125 LP quickening slots. In your example, regardless of which slot you pick, Vaan's first quickening will always be red spiral.

Now, the different slots can often block access to other licenses. Vaan's 50 LP quickening could block an HP boost license, for example (if you don't take that quickening, you won't get access to it on that license board).

The problem this creates in Zodiac is that the four are shared by both boards, but all boards have different layouts (50, 75, and 100 may all lead to other licenses for Vaan's first job, but 75, 100, and 125 may be the ones you'd want to take for the second job). So it requires a bit of planning, and there are some job combinations where you're going to have to choose to forgo some of the slots to get access to better ones (this is also true for espers).
 
Oct 25, 2017
538
Quickenings are distinguished by cost. You have 50, 75, 100, and 125 LP quickening slots. In your example, regardless of which slot you pick, Vaan's first quickening will always be red spiral.

Now, the different slots can often block access to other licenses. Vaan's 50 LP quickening could block an HP boost license, for example (if you don't take that quickening, you won't get access to it on that license board).

The problem this creates in Zodiac is that the four are shared by both boards, but all boards have different layouts (50, 75, and 100 may all lead to other licenses for Vaan's first job, but 75, 100, and 125 may be the ones you'd want to take for the second job). So it requires a bit of planning, and there are some job combinations where you're going to have to choose to forgo some of the slots to get access to better ones (this is also true for espers).
Got it, thanks!
 

Ambitious

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,340
I finally started playing this yesterday. Question about the gambit system: The way I understood it, the game goes through the gambit list of a character from top to bottom and chooses the first entry which matches the target condition, right?

I've set up the following gambits for Fran:
1) Ally: HP < 30% --> Cure
2) Ally: HP < 50% --> First Aid
3) Foe: any --> Attack

So if there's a party member close to dying, she's gonna use Cure. If a party member has 30-50% HP, she's gonna use First Aid in order to conserve MP. If all party members have more than 50% HP, she's gonna attack a random enemy. Right? Yet, it seems like she's only ever using Cure and Attack, never First Aid. Vaan is in the 30-50% range right now, and she's simply attacking. I don't understand.
 

devSin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,196
So if there's a party member close to dying, she's gonna use Cure. If a party member has 30-50% HP, she's gonna use First Aid in order to conserve HP. If all party members have more than 50% HP, she's gonna attack a random enemy. Right? Yet, it seems like she's only ever using Cure and Attack, never First Aid. Vaan is in the 30-50% range right now, and she's simply attacking. I don't understand.
First Aid only works on HP critical status (it's also useless and not worth a gambit slot).

Most actions have innate constraints, allowing you to use them with "any" (Ally:any->Phoenix down will only trigger if there's actually a dead party member who will benefit from having that item used on them, for example). But this will also keep them from working if your conditions are met while theirs still aren't (like First Aid, which the AI won't use until their HP gets into critical range—and even then it won't trigger in your setup until she runs out of MP, because her Cure gambit will keep firing until they're above 30%).
 

Exentryk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,236
I've set up the following gambits for Fran:
1) Ally: HP < 30% --> Cure
2) Ally: HP < 50% --> First Aid
3) Foe: any --> Attack

Post above answers your question. To give you an example of how I've set up mine while keeping with your example is:

1) Ally: HP < 30% --> Hi Potion / X Potion
2) Ally: HP < 50% --> Cure / Cura
3) Foe: any --> Attack

This should work like how you think.
 

SlickVic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,962
USA
Felt good to get past the Stilshrine of Miriam, since I remember that being the point I stopped playing the original (think I was underleveled/undergeared and just got frustrated then). Have to say I'm really enjoying the game the second time around, and hoping to actually finish it this time.
 

Haze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,785
Detroit, MI
I started playing again while waiting for the Kingdom Come patch. Trying to beat Deathgaze but I want to do the Renew/Reverse/Cure cheese because it sounds awesome to pull off. Grinding away at these Hunts that I needed to do anyway.
 

Ambitious

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,340
Any tips for how to spend my license points? Any upgrades I really need to unlock? Do I have to be really careful with my points, or will I get so many over the course of the game that I will be able to unlock pretty much everything anyway?
 
OP
OP
Dreamboum

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,865
Any tips for how to spend my license points? Any upgrades I really need to unlock? Do I have to be really careful with my points, or will I get so many over the course of the game that I will be able to unlock pretty much everything anyway?

Stat enhancing licences are good, LP is not an issue but common sense is preferable. Main issue are quickenings and espèces locking licenses. Use the party plannner in the OP to figure out who gets what
 

SlickVic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,962
USA
Any tips for how to spend my license points? Any upgrades I really need to unlock? Do I have to be really careful with my points, or will I get so many over the course of the game that I will be able to unlock pretty much everything anyway?

I haven't finished the game, but you seem to get a pretty steady supply of LP just by battling regular enemies in the world. One piece of advice I found pretty helpful from the Kotaku tips for the game is to always save some LP for each character. That way if you find a merchant selling better gear than what you currently have, you have some LP on hand to unlock it on the board so you can actually equip it. At this point I save about a couple hundred LP for each character for that purpose, and spend the rest on whatever sounds good. I've found upgrading gear makes a big difference in how smoothly battles go, and I think it's one of the things I neglected doing when I played the original.
 

Exentryk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,236
Got to Phon Coast and picked up all the neat gear from Lhusu Mines (past gate 11). Then did some trial mode and picked up ribbons and other neat gear. Ended up going past trial 80, lol. Went through my whole 100 remedies though, haha. I really dislike Disable status. Have enough ribbons now though, so shouldn't be an issue. Sorta need Reverse, Esunaga and Dispelga to make stuff less tedious though.

Anyway. Will make some story progress tomorrow.

L4h9g9n.png
 

Ambitious

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,340
Stat enhancing licences are good, LP is not an issue but common sense is preferable. Main issue are quickenings and espèces locking licenses. Use the party plannner in the OP to figure out who gets what

I haven't finished the game, but you seem to get a pretty steady supply of LP just by battling regular enemies in the world. One piece of advice I found pretty helpful from the Kotaku tips for the game is to always save some LP for each character. That way if you find a merchant selling better gear than what you currently have, you have some LP on hand to unlock it on the board so you can actually equip it. At this point I save about a couple hundred LP for each character for that purpose, and spend the rest on whatever sounds good. I've found upgrading gear makes a big difference in how smoothly battles go, and I think it's one of the things I neglected doing when I played the original.

Thanks! I think I'm gonna follow the party planner for the most part.

edit: Uh, I don't really understand this sheet. Maybe I'm not yet far enough in the game, considering I had to google what "quickening" is.
 
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Parsnip

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,913
Finland
Thanks! I think I'm gonna follow the party planner for the most part.

edit: Uh, I don't really understand this sheet. Maybe I'm not yet far enough in the game, considering I had to google what "quickening" is.
You don't really follow the party planner, it won't tell you which licenses to pick.
It's more of a tool that shows you what your options will be based on the job pairings even if you are not far enough yet where it's relevant. It should help you make decisions that are best for your party, decisions that you won't regret later.
 

Exentryk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,236
Lol.

eIeuHDm.gif



Edit: Ended up fighting the Hell Wyrm, and had no idea it was a superboss lol. Managed to beat it regardless though.
Now to continue story with Feywood and Giruvegan.
 
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Ambitious

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,340
I'm in the Nam-Yensa sandsea now. A few brief impressions:
- Gameplay: I'm in love with the gambit system. I'm a software engineer, and I love to automate things. The gambit system is right up my alley. It's so much fun.
- Characters: They're okay. Certainly not my favorite characters in the FF franchise, but they're not terrible either. Balthier is cool. I really like the voice acting.
- I haven't seen much of the world of FF12 yet, but so far I'm really disappointed. Everything is.. brown. Rabanastre is just a maze of brown hallways. I'm walking through deserts, deserts and more deserts. The sewers level, the airship level.. they're not brown, but it's just the same empty hallways over and over again. It's tiring.
Also, for the love of god, I can't remember any names of cities, kingdoms and other locations.
 

SirNinja

One Winged Slayer
Member

Parsnip

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,913
Finland
Still not patch notes for v1.0.1. If you changed FFXII_TZA.vbf (i.e., used most mods), Steam will redownload the entire ~30GB file. Otherwise the update's around 100MB.
As far as I could see, this wasn't the case here.
Otherwise it was the fastest 30gigs I've ever downloaded.
I mean I wasn't looking at the download the entire time, but certainly didn't seem like I downloaded the entire thing again.
 
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Exentryk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,236
Holy shit, what is your job/equipment/gambit setup??

All three had somewhat different setups, so see the end of the vids below for the setup.

Ultima:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

Fafnir:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yvWdjUypvE

Zodiark:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
 
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Exentryk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,236
Had to rush through and finish the game this weekend to prepare for Ni no Kuni 2. Didn't get to do some optional content like the Subterra dungeon, Omega, Yiasmat and the Trial 100. Might come back to it in the future though.

Anyway, just want to start by saying the ending was so good. The cutscenes really are a stand out in this game. Below are my thoughts on the game overall:

Pros:
  • Cutscenes - Fantastically directed. Jun Akiyama is the man.
  • CG Sequences - LOVED these so much. I liked how many of them were mixed in with other cutscenes. Really makes them feel special.
  • Voice Acting - Probably best in the series. Al-Cid's actor deserves high praise.
  • Combat System - Love the Gambit system. I did feel this time around that I needed even more options/depth with this system, like multiple blocks to set your conditions and output.

Neutral:
  • Story - I'm not a fan of political stories, but I guess it was okay. Sort of got worse towards the end.


Cons:
  • Art direction - Too browny and similar.
  • Cheap repeated assets - Rabanastre's port is exactly the same as Bhujerba's (the sky city).
  • Too Dungeon Crawly & Obscure elements - Late game I felt I was spending too long in the dungeons and doing stupid things like luring enemies halfway across the map or re-running zones to see if a treasure chest appears or not. It's a single player game, just lose these chance based or obscure stuff.
  • Non-party members not getting EXP

Overall though, I had a wonderful time. Balthier is the best character.


x6Ff0af.gif
 
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demosthenes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,607
Is there an easy way to play this on PC w/ gsync yet or do I still have to download something to limite frames or something?
 

SlickVic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,962
USA
Never finished the original, so it feels good to finally have FFXII off my backlog after over a decade. Wound up playing like 4 hours straight today to wrap up the final stretch. It's been said before, but man the battle speed increase was such a great addition to this version. I could see myself quickly getting tired of some of the longer dungeons like Pharos at regular speed, but at 4x, the length felt just right. Enjoyed the gambit system quite a bit throughout the game as well. And while I did enjoy the ending, I did find the second half of the story perhaps not as engaging as the first half (felt like there were large lulls in the story in the back half before ramping back up at the end). Still, glad to finally see it through to the end and overall did have a good time with it.
 

Ambitious

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,340
I'm so sick of the Pharos dungeon. It's the same boring hallways over and over again, and it just does not end.
 

Aadiboy

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,652
Too browny and similar? This game has a variety of different areas and environments. Do you just want a crazy, no explanation mix of areas that have no reason to be next to each other like past FFs?
 

Rellyrell28

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,959
Definitely gotta get back into this game. I'm in post game and stop after I beat Zodiarck. Still plenty of things to do.
 

AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,094
What's the easiest or quickest way to get ribbons?

edit: lol man, I'm never getting six ribbons. I'll get three and I'll be fine.
 
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Briareos

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,041
Maine
Just picked this up having only played the demo on the old DQ8 disc back in the day. Excited for some nerdiness.
 

Seijuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,858
I just started playing yesterday and have a general question about leveling/ licenses. It seems kind of intimidating because there's a lot of stuff in the boards, but at the same time I don't want to consult a guide for every step in what's sure to be a long game. I started to unlock what sounds useful.
But is it better to just buy licenes in one direction of the board to get to the abilities in the corners of the board? Can I seriously f my playthrough up when not using a guide for optimal leveling?
 

Deimo5

Member
Oct 25, 2017
297
I just started playing yesterday and have a general question about leveling/ licenses. It seems kind of intimidating because there's a lot of stuff in the boards, but at the same time I don't want to consult a guide for every step in what's sure to be a long game. I started to unlock what sounds useful.
But is it better to just buy licenes in one direction of the board to get to the abilities in the corners of the board? Can I seriously f my playthrough up when not using a guide for optimal leveling?
Optimal levelling is not really important in this game I think, but a little planning ahead doesn't hurt. You shouldn't run into serious problems either way unless you chose the same job for every character or something weird. Just take squares in the order of what looks good now or in the near future, you can always get more if necessary.
May want to check what board squares espers will give all your characters before assigning them though since there can be no going back from that.
 

Seijuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,858
Optimal levelling is not really important in this game I think, but a little planning ahead doesn't hurt. You shouldn't run into serious problems either way unless you chose the same job for every character or something weird. Just take squares in the order of what looks good now or in the near future, you can always get more if necessary.
May want to check what board squares espers will give all your characters before assigning them though since there can be no going back from that.
Thanks! I want to have each job at least once in the party anyway.
 

xania

Member
Oct 27, 2017
183
I just started playing yesterday and have a general question about leveling/ licenses. It seems kind of intimidating because there's a lot of stuff in the boards, but at the same time I don't want to consult a guide for every step in what's sure to be a long game. I started to unlock what sounds useful.
But is it better to just buy licenes in one direction of the board to get to the abilities in the corners of the board? Can I seriously f my playthrough up when not using a guide for optimal leveling?

You can unlock the whole board, with the exception being licences behind Quickenings and Espers. However, the only job that actually has to choose with Quickenings is Shikari, I think, and even if you choose poorly with them you'll never completely screw yourself, since the game isn't overly difficult.
 

Deleted member 2834

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,620
tfw when you grind for the demon wall challenge in the tomb but the Demonbane was removed from that chest in Zodiac Age
 

Briareos

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,041
Maine
Finally finished this. Overall, fairly disappointed. For background, my rough ratings are probably FF6 > FF4/5 > FF7/9 >> FF8/FF10 (didn't finish either), didn't play anything else. All of those played when they came out, so nostalgia factor.

Story-wise, I felt like the opening was very strong, the story was something you could follow, hewed to a more down to earth setup tied to human affairs and not fantastical, some characters died early which is always a plus for establishing that characters wouldn't be sacrosanct, etc. However the story started to deteriorate significantly around the halfway point and became the usual "poor decision making theater" combined with weakly backgrounded save-the-world mythology. I started skipping all cutscenes towards the end just to make progress. It felt like maybe 1/3 of the story got cut somewhere along the way to hit their deadlines given how random some of the material introduced came off.

Graphically, ZA is a mixed bag; I don't understand what they were doing with the post filters on the characters giving them that weird blurry double render look. You can really feel how the title is a victim of the technical constraints of the original era, with zones being composed frequently of small blobs or tight corridors. Texture work is repetitive, some areas are very dark. On the plus side load times are wonderful on the Pro, auto-save is generous, and the teleport mechanic was a decent balance, with no worry if you did most of the hunts given their teleport stone rewards. Although in the end I preferred the verisimilitude of using the airship later, and wish they had something better integrated along those lines (chocobos instead of teleports maybe).

Character design... eesh. Everyone pretty much looks ridiculous (especially Fran, ugh), with best character probably going to Balthier for looking semi reasonable and also least emo/goofy (ffs Ashe...). Really enjoyed the concept art of baby Balthier with Cid in the end credits.

Soundtrack is generally wonderful. Giza Plains...

Re: gameplay, they unspooled systems slow enough to not get too overwhelmed, although subtleties of the gambit system like being able to assign Ally: Any + Esuna w/o having to specify individual debuff states weren't apparent to me until much later (ironically when I inspected AI NPC gambit setups...). As a once-through min-maxer with no interest in replay, the license board system with its permanent choices was not compelling to me, and ultimately filling it out felt largely unrewarding given I would unlock most things before I could use them. Entire sub-trees went unused for weapons classifications. I still have no idea what I was supposed to do with measures; the work required to switch them in/out was not worth the benefits they conferred.

The bazaar system was also largely opaque to me even looking at guides. It was never clear whether I should have the materials I was missing or where to get them, and the game presumes far too much on my time if it expects FAQ spelunking + grinding for the chance at items that I have no ability to see/judge (e.g. vs if I had recipes in-game). I had some misplaced fear that I would need weapons/armors to make others via the bazaar so I never sold them (just any loot I had more than 10 of), leaving me to have to carefully judge my funds until the endgame, when all of a sudden I had hundreds of thousands of gil and nothing to spend it on.

Having important spells/etc. in arbitrary chests in the game seems insane to me--Cleanse in some random pot? What? I'm not sure I got any top level weapons at the end of the trees; I briefly looked at getting one of the Shikari blades and it was a 1/500 drop chance on some random pot in Cerobi Stepps, assuming you were wearing the diamond armlet. FF12 loot drop system designer: go fuck yourself.

I did enjoy setting up gambits, although perversely it encourages you to optimize your playstyle so that you barely interacted with the game systems as such. With party leader on auto-attack I would just point my stick in the vague direction I wanted to go and things would die along the way, and LP would accumulate. It's not clear why you would make gambits a purchasable; it limits the dimensionality of gameplay by giving the player less choice (but perhaps avoids overwhelming them, but if they don't know how to use them, they can't judge which to buy either!) and doesn't really make any sense from a narrative standpoint either.

Barely touched Technicks other than telekinesis on Vaan; it was never clear if horology, etc., didn't work by design or I was simply misunderstanding something about them. Similarly Mist abilities rarely seemed worth the time required to execute them given they were non-skippable. I summoned an Esper maybe twice and didn't see the point in that either given my party seemed far more capable.

I probably put 80 hours into the game, with the last 40 on double-speed with an over-levelled party, license boards filled out via juggling amulets and tippets, trying to finish all the hunts before giving up when you hit the difficulty wall on the level VIIs being in areas that are way above the player level for finishing the game (top of Geruvegan, Site 11, etc.). My final party was Vaan at 68, Penelo at 64 and everyone else at 54. Vaan was set to auto cast Float and Libra, Penelo to apply Protect and Shell. Basch had genji gloves + ultima weapon. I essentially auto-attacked through all the end boss setups and destroyed them, only pausing to have Ashe apply silence, blind, and bio/toxify, and then rotate her with Basch as required by barriers. Occasionally would have Vaan apply Bubble to Penelo.

Most hilarious/difficult moment: not realizing I could pick from four different debuffs in Pharos and picking weapons. Doing all that without any weapons was, uh, unorthodox. That was actually the one time that Technicks turned out useful now that I think about it more, Souleather and IIRC Telekinesis can still be used to do damage there...

Anyway, glad I played it, but clear that the experience I want is not what FF12 offered; I'm much more attracted to the immersive sense of place that games such as Elder Scrolls, Witcher, Zelda:BOTW, even Horizon Zero Dawn, offer. That said, perversely the next game on my slate is Octopath Traveller...
 
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