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Richietto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,976
North Carolina
The translation is just a few posts above us, here it is again, it's very clear:



I actually wonder if he'll walk this back because the snowman and fat chocobo head have /visor functionality that lets you see your character's face. I imagine they might just disallow /visor, instead.
Regardless of what was said, you thinking its some desperate bullshit that they aren't allowing the 2 races to wear helmets to cut cost is ridiculous when WoW had the very same issue for years, they just didn't care to disable it. Its a ton of work. They can very well flip a switch and allow you to show the helmets in all their warped, clipping glory, but they chose not to and instead implement them when they can.
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
While I don't disagree with your premise, wasn't this decided for viera back when viera were made for FF12?

I may be wrong but I don't believe they were described as not having any males, just that males weren't shown in game.

Anyway you can sort of excuse that as resource limitations. Rigging an entirely different type of skeleton takes time and money. That excuse doesn't carry through though for something like final fantasy 14 that features a character customiser. There's a precedent already set of being able to choose gender for the other races. You're just arbitrarily limiting the sexy race to female only.
 

kyorii

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,983
Splatlandia
I may be wrong but I don't believe they were described as not having any males, just that males weren't shown in game.

Anyway you can sort of excuse that as resource limitations. Rigging an entirely different type of skeleton takes time and money. That excuse doesn't carry through though for something like final fantasy 14 that features a character customiser.
Featuring and implementing it are two different monsters altogether. Hence the lack of helmets from the getgo.
 

Deleted member 8001

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,440
Won't be for a long time but I honestly can't wait till the next FF MMORPG where we don't have to worry about this crummy limited 1.0 engine.
 

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,293
I may be wrong but I don't believe they were described as not having any males, just that males weren't shown in game.

Anyway you can sort of excuse that as resource limitations. Rigging an entirely different type of skeleton takes time and money. That excuse doesn't carry through though for something like final fantasy 14 that features a character customiser. There's a precedent already set of being able to choose gender for the other races. You're just arbitrarily limiting the sexy race to female only.
In 12 or 14? In 12 I believe only female Viera exist(not totally sure, someone with more knowledge on Ivalice would have to chime in), but in 14 male Viera 100% exist.
There was a lengthy description about them around the last alliance raid addition. So I agree, they absolutely should have done male Viera.
 

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,251
Male Viera exist in FFXII, they are secluded from the women.

Honestly, the male Viera would likely not turn out how I wanted. Male mi'qote ended up more masculine and buff than I would have liked, especially their stance. Something closer to Lehko from FFXI was what I always wanted. But knowing that female Hrothgar could have been a thing is also disappointing.
 

Arkeband

Banned
Nov 8, 2017
7,663
Regardless of what was said, you thinking its some desperate bullshit that they aren't allowing the 2 races to wear helmets to cut cost is ridiculous when WoW had the very same issue for years, they just didn't care to disable it. Its a ton of work. They can very well flip a switch and allow you to show the helmets in all their warped, clipping glory, but they chose not to and instead implement them when they can.

They just said it was to cut costs! Why spin this into this actually being added value for players?
 

Richietto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,976
North Carolina
They just said it was to cut costs! Why spin this into this actually being added value for players?
He was talking about glasses on Viera. The question before that was about helmets and how they will be implementing them over time because if they didn't they would look fucked up. Like we have seen this issue before in many other games. Its not strange, its nothing to get worked up about, its not a cop out.
 

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,251
I'm expecting the next "Final Fantasy MMO" to be more of a game like Warframe and the like. I'm not sure Square Enix is going to be able to make an actual MMO on PS5 or PS6 grade hardware. The amount of manpower needed would be astronomical.
 

kyorii

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,983
Splatlandia
I'm expecting the next "Final Fantasy MMO" to be more of a game like Warframe and the like. I'm not sure Square Enix is going to be able to make an actual MMO on PS5 or PS6 grade hardware. The amount of manpower needed would be astronomical.
Kinda sad to think how dated ARR already looks a bit dated its low res textures etc. It's like night and day when you can mod in 4k textures on PC.
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
Featuring and implementing it are two different monsters altogether. Hence the lack of helmets from the getgo.

Alternatively though I suppose the exaggerated slim nature of the Viera design could have justified using a copy paste of the female rigging for the males.

Might look a bit weird bit weird if you look closely but then they could always hace designed the female Vieras movements to be a bit less overly feminine from the start (weaker hip swing, etc...). Male Viera probbaly have slim shoulders and the like.
 

Deleted member 8001

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,440
Huh? They abandoned the 1.x engine altogether with ARR.I thought? At this point the PS4 might be the only limiting factor.
It'll be impossible for me to find but last year Yoshida made some comment about this.

They did rewrite the graphics engine with something new but they definitely ported a lot of stuff over at the same time.
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976


I really, really do not like this design. It's too obvious. Like I posted earlier in the thread, I would have loved it if they had played off of the sexual dimorphism, done Viera males as smaller, softer, and more bestial. Kinda like this Odin Sphere character:

56370e01cbd21d6b9b5e84bf_5671ea9b320b685f0fda4fc1_rz.jpg


Reverse Au Ra thing.
 

Gamer @ Heart

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,575
Huh? They abandoned the 1.x engine altogether with ARR.I thought? At this point the PS4 might be the only limiting factor.

The PS4 will never be the limiting factor through this games life, ps3 obviously so with it's split 512 RAM. The game has to be scalable to support all the low end PCs across asia that make up a HUGE part of the subscription base.
 

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,293
I really, really do not like this design. It's too obvious. Like I posted earlier in the thread, I would have loved it if they had played off of the sexual dimorphism, done Viera males as smaller, softer, and more bestial. Kinda like this Odin Sphere character:

56370e01cbd21d6b9b5e84bf_5671ea9b320b685f0fda4fc1_rz.jpg


Reverse Au Ra thing.
Male and female Au Ra are both extremely humanoid, though, just very different proportions. They still look like they're genetically similar due to skin colors, their horns, face armor, etc.

What you're talking about is a sex that looks like it's from another species almost entirely.
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
I really, really do not like this design. It's too obvious. Like I posted earlier in the thread, I would have loved it if they had played off of the sexual dimorphism, done Viera males as smaller, softer, and more bestial. Kinda like this Odin Sphere character:

56370e01cbd21d6b9b5e84bf_5671ea9b320b685f0fda4fc1_rz.jpg


Reverse Au Ra thing.

If you have a species of bunny women who are all designed in a conveniently sexual manner, it becomes far more contextually justifiable and realistic when the bunny men are similarly sexy too.

Also no offence but having the females look like they do and having the men look something like that picture you posted gives off some beastiality vibes a bit.
 

Komii

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,554
I really, really do not like this design. It's too obvious. Like I posted earlier in the thread, I would have loved it if they had played off of the sexual dimorphism, done Viera males as smaller, softer, and more bestial. Kinda like this Odin Sphere character:

56370e01cbd21d6b9b5e84bf_5671ea9b320b685f0fda4fc1_rz.jpg


Reverse Au Ra thing.
This keeps the sexist approach they used, only making the male species cute instead of burly.

Why not making the female viera being bunnies and the male being sexy humanoids then? :T
 

Qvoth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,889
starting to doubt if i want to change to hrothgar, have a feeling they'll look bad as dancer which i might try if it's interesting
 
Response ("reviewing all feedback")

Killthee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,169
New response from Yoshida on the missing genders:

Game director Naoki Yoshida responded to the drama in an interview with GameSpot today. He said the team hasn't had enough time yet to consider all the feedback considering the announcement of Hothgar is so recent.

"We have to identify what they're coming from, so we can respond correctly," Yoshida said about concerned fans. "We want to review all the feedback that players gave. The bottom line is that the addition of a race takes quite a lot of cost; it's really quite an undertaking."

I asked Yoshida if Square Enix would considering allowing more gender options for Hrothgar and Viera in the future, but it appears the studio wants to consider feedback first before making any announcements. Yoshida also said to GameSpot that, due in part to the high complexity and challenge of creating new races and balancing them, Hrothgar might be the final new race added to Final Fantasy XIV Online.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/square-enix-considering-fan-feedback-over-final-fa/1100-6465810/
 

MechaX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,043
Figured they would punt it as a resource issue.

But we know the team does listen and react, so keep the feedback coming
 

Deleted member 32018

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 8, 2017
7,628
Why do people keep saying this? There's nothing indicating that they're going to change things in the future...

Probably because they do usually listen to the fanbase (unless it's detrimental to their vision of the game). And they are listening to the feedback right now so people should continue to give it, albeit in a constructive and calm manner.
 

Stone Ocean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,576
Why do people keep saying this? There's nothing indicating that they're going to change things in the future...

I'm not saying this is what you're doing but these type of "just give it time/just" responses always feel an awful lot like "stop complaining/being vocal"
Community feedback made them add femroes/male cats, it's very unlikely people will stop asking for male Viera so I could easily see them add them eventually.

It's less "stop being vocal" and more "keep being vocal". Asking for Viera at every opportunity is what got them in the game in the first place.
 

Deleted member 2172

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,577
Male Viera does not make sense to add imo considering they are secluded from the females. Disappointed there aren't female Hrothgar through.
 

Cenauru

Dragon Girl Supremacy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,967
Why do people keep saying this? There's nothing indicating that they're going to change things in the future...

I'm not saying this is what you're doing but these type of "just give it time/just" responses always feel an awful lot like "stop complaining/being vocal"
Because they have a history of listening to player feedback, a LOT of things players have asked about for years have eventually gotten into the game. If you want it, voice your opinions on the official forums. I've already posted there myself, and there are a LOT of people asking for both genders of each race.
 

DR2K

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,946
Why aren't they allowed to make the race they want without gender norms being forced on them?
 

SkyOdin

Member
Apr 21, 2018
2,680
Male Viera does not make sense to add imo considering they are secluded from the females. Disappointed there aren't female Hrothgar through.
The relationship between male and female Viera is essentially identical to the relationship between male and female Keepers of the Moon Miqo'te. Male Moon Miqo'te are nonetheless still playable, even if all of two or three total have appeared as NPCs in game so far.
 

TinfoilHatsROn

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,119
I mean you're not wrong on male viera. But I'm guessing the logic is female viera is higher of the two and iconic of the viera race presently (also I get the outfit is ridiculous but my first impression was that it's meant to be the iconic outfit from XII), while beast race was yoship trying to branch out like au'ra, which was pretty left field and not folks expected. It could be likely we see the other gender options in 6.0.
Right. I'm just saying branching out doesn't make as much sense when one has to make content that'll be popular and make the playerbase more active. The Viera seem like the race to solely focus on from my eyes.

Also I feel like people would be less justified if gender options were confirmed to being worked on or coming, instead of vague predictions on how this'll go based on that other cat race.
Yeah, I just don't buy that it was solely a resource issue, when they could scrap one race and just do one with both genders.
Male Viera does not make sense to add imo considering they are secluded from the females. Disappointed there aren't female Hrothgar through.
That's the weakest reason given so far. It's an MMO. I bet they already fucked their own lore in some way.
Why aren't they allowed to make the race they want without gender norms being forced on them?
They did. And everybody else is allowed to critique them especially when the excuses the developers don't even make sense. What you want is for the decision to pass by without any criticism at all.

Also they're the ones passing gender norms off, so that's pretty funny.
 

Richietto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,976
North Carolina
Why do people keep saying this? There's nothing indicating that they're going to change things in the future...

I'm not saying this is what you're doing but these type of "just give it time/just" responses always feel an awful lot like "stop complaining/being vocal"
You're right. I've changed my stance on things multiple times already. I'm not happy they made the sexually explicit race the female and the strong boy hero tigers male. It sucks. I'm fine with the 2 exclusives but not their implemetation and with how SE doesn't want to give the team more resources I can't see it happening unless a real negative effect is caused by this in terms of sub counts or whatever's. I get why it upsets everyone so much and it sucks they make these compromises for such a successful MMO.
 
OP
OP
Zero-ELEC

Zero-ELEC

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,564
México
Male Viera does not make sense to add imo considering they are secluded from the females. Disappointed there aren't female Hrothgar through.
Male Miqo'te make as much sense to add either, yet here we are.

Why aren't they allowed to make the race they want without gender norms being forced on them?
They are tho?

...although it's funny you say that given they're the ones forcing gender norms.
Am I not allowed not to state some people are being petulant and unreasonable in their criticisms?
Jim-Carrey-What-the-hell-are-you-talking-about.gif


Yes, you are, nobody said you weren't? You're arguing with no one here.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,107
Why do people keep saying this? There's nothing indicating that they're going to change things in the future...

I'm not saying this is what you're doing but these type of "just give it time/just" responses always feel an awful lot like "stop complaining/being vocal"
They give "give it time AND keep being vocal"
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,149
No female hrothgar makes me sad.

Currently, the only game that allows you to play as a ferocious cat lady is Bless Online. A game, which nobody is playing, with an amazing feline race.

Really disappointing.
I'm not playing the game but I think Guild Wars 2 has them too?
----
After checking the races google "female charr".
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
Funny how back in 2013 Yoshi-P said he would do this exact thing, release female-only Viera with some male-only counterpart race, since "a rabbit male might be kind of weird". If nothing else, he stays consistent!
 

Richietto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,976
North Carolina
I don't know if you've been paying attention to the thread or the interviews, but they're not even including proper helmet/visor options for the new races. This is very clearly a budget/manpower issue.
For sure. It seems like 5.0 gear will work just fine, though??? The Viera DNC most definitely has a headgear piece on so there has got to be some that will work in 5.0.
 

Komii

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,554
I don't know if you've been paying attention to the thread or the interviews, but they're not even including proper helmet/visor options for the new races. This is very clearly a budget/manpower issue.
What puzzles me is tht if there's a manpower issue, wouldn't it be better to focus on one race that has the best odds at being popular? Aside from humans, miq'ote have the biggest male character population in the game, and the burly big race the game has is barely populated.
It's not a stretch to assume by these numbers that almost no one gonna play as a ronso, but a fair share of the players would make a male viera

Making viera only but not gender locked is a no brainer, only thing precenting that would be the fear of a smal but vocal minority complaining about bunny boys but they would most likely be too distracted by the bunny girls to care
 

kyorii

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,983
Splatlandia
What puzzles me is tht if there's a manpower issue, wouldn't it be better to focus on one race that has the best odds at being popular? Aside from humans, miq'ote have the biggest male character population in the game, and the burly big race the game has is barely populated.
It's not a stretch to assume by these numbers that almost no one gonna play as a ronso, but a fair share of the players would make a male viera

Making viera only but not gender locked is a no brainer, only thing precenting that would be the fear of a smal but vocal minority complaining about bunny boys but they would most likely be too distracted by the bunny girls to care
Well as someone said it earlier, they bit off more than they could chew. Overambition and all.(and apparently insane overtime to get this done by July) For what it's worth though, this man's crazy ambition is what gave rise to ARR. Rebuilding an MMO from scratch was beyond insane. I think yoship just really wanted more races and this was the compromise at the present. That said folks should be vocal about wanting more gender options, just don't discount/lazy Dev rhetoric on the reality of what this team has to work with.

Oh and sending death threats to developers is not. OK.
 
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