Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers |OT| First World Problems

Zen

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,711
For anyone wanting a good resource on fight mechanics and gearing, The Balance is sort of the go to theory crafting group right now.

https://thebalanceffxiv.com/

I only gound out about them recently since I was on break for a while and they weren't around in early Stormblood afaik.
 
Oct 25, 2017
982
The Balance Discord has been around since late Heavensward, with the website going up a few months before Stormblood hit. The name came from the HW-era super-OP 20% Balance/10% AOE Balance being meme-tier. It ballooned up in popularity in Stormblood; it remains the best one-stop-shopping for BiS, rotation/opener and fight-specific modifications, but the chat channels themselves generally need to be taken with a grain of salt especially if you venture outside the job-specific stuff. They're still useful, but misinformation can be a thing in discussion channels.
 

Astral

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,934
I finally logged in again after so long. I’m still only ilevel 447. Have they said what the raid’s item level requirement will be?
 
The Balance Discord has been around since late Heavensward, with the website going up a few months before Stormblood hit. The name came from the HW-era super-OP 20% Balance/10% AOE Balance being meme-tier. It ballooned up in popularity in Stormblood; it remains the best one-stop-shopping for BiS, rotation/opener and fight-specific modifications, but the chat channels themselves generally need to be taken with a grain of salt especially if you venture outside the job-specific stuff. They're still useful, but misinformation can be a thing in discussion channels.
While #brd_lounge haves a really bad reputation, #blm_lounge is :comfy:
 

QisTopTier

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,969
Of course the BLM lounge is comfy they know all about wanting to get settled in one place to relax
 

Saint-14

Member
Nov 2, 2017
12,285
So Balance is saying Noct AST will probably get a buff in 5.1, thats welcomed but the class as a whole could use a little more too and not just one sect, but hey WHM is everywhere so Noct is all I’m pretty much playing.
 

Quinton

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,863
The Research Triangle
One thing I've noticed that I'm not a huge fan of is that I think certain "passive" enemy types ought to be far more reactive to when their buddies are getting slaughtered. I strolled up to a few goblin encampments last night and a bunch of them were hanging out around a campfire. I killed one after the other and the rest would just sit there, lol.

Don't know if this reference will click with anybody here but it felt not unlike the Kelpiens awaiting the inevitable Ba'ul from Star Trek: Discovery...
 

cdyhybrid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,249
Crafting a set of level 80 crafting gear and I have to make 43 Dwarven Cotton Threads, along with other subcrafts. This is ridiculous.
 

Vinx

Member
Sep 9, 2019
17
So Balance is saying Noct AST will probably get a buff in 5.1, thats welcomed but the class as a whole could use a little more too and not just one sect, but hey WHM is everywhere so Noct is all I’m pretty much playing.
It was part of the Letter from the Producer

"we are planning to adjust the effectiveness of astrologian’s Nocturnal Sect."

 

jblanco

Member
Oct 27, 2017
332
Just finished Shadowbringers yesterday and goddamn you guys were not exaggerating: what a superb experience.

Music, art direction, atmosphere, style, world-building are all top tier Square.

But... is this it? I am honestly not very excited about 6.0

Here's why:
1. I find Zenos to be an incredibly boring and one dimensional villain. He's just evil and cool for the sake of being evil and cool, oh sorry, for the hunt.

2. Shadowbringers taking place in a whole new world allowed the team to have a lot more creative freedom. If 6.0 takes place in Eorzea, then it can't be as crazy. It just can't.

3. After the world of The First (Norvandart, sp?) I find Eorzea....... less cool lol. The Garlean Empire conflict is so yesterday, give more Aumarot!

In summary, The First > The Source. Fight me :p

Does anyone else feel the same way?
 

cdyhybrid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,249
Just finished Shadowbringers yesterday and goddamn you guys were not exaggerating: what a superb experience.

Music, art direction, atmosphere, style, world-building are all top tier Square.

But... is this it? I am honestly not very excited about 6.0

Here's why:
1. I find Zenos to be an incredibly boring and one dimensional villain. He's just evil and cool for the sake of being evil and cool, oh sorry, for the hunt.

2. Shadowbringers taking place in a whole new world allowed the team to have a lot more creative freedom. If 6.0 takes place in Eorzea, then it can't be as crazy. It just can't.

3. After the world of The First (Norvandart, sp?) I find Eorzea....... less cool lol. The Garlean Empire conflict is so yesterday, give more Aumarot!

In summary, The First > The Source. Fight me :p

Does anyone else feel the same way?
We don't even know if Zenos will make it to 6.0 - we have five patches' worth of MSQ before then.

There are entire regions on the Source that we haven't explored yet. Dalmasca and the surrounding regions, Ilsabard/Garlemald, never mind farther places like Meracydia.
 

Allard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
476
We don't even know if Zenos will make it to 6.0 - we have five patches' worth of MSQ before then.

There are entire regions on the Source that we haven't explored yet. Dalmasca and the surrounding regions, Ilsabard/Garlemald, never mind farther places like Meracydia.
There is also the new world which isn't on any map but is supposed to be west of us. Think more then anything we need some kind of new antagonist/threat after the Ascians that could be on the horizon. There is definitely a feeling of finality cropping up after Shadowbringers so it would be nice for something to start getting teased in these coming MSQ much like how the Warriors of Darkness teased Novrandt and this expansion.
 

Raza

Member
Nov 7, 2017
877
Ohio
I have a quick, dumb question. I own the original FF14 ARR and I got to level 50 with quite a few jobs. Can I just buy Shadowbringers and play through that content, or do I need to purchase the one before it (Stormblood) and do that content first?

It's more of a time investment question than a money one.
 

Killthee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,358
I have a quick, dumb question. I own the original FF14 ARR and I got to level 50 with quite a few jobs. Can I just buy Shadowbringers and play through that content, or do I need to purchase the one before it (Stormblood) and do that content first?

It's more of a time investment question than a money one.
The latest expansion includes all previous expansions so buying Shadowbringers will grant you access to everything.

The story on the other hand is locked behind the completion of the Stormblood story which is locked by the completion of the Heavensward story which is locked by ARR. It’s all one big sequential story. You can skip directly to the Shadowbringers portion by forking over some additional cash on the cash shop, but you’ll probably be lost and not fully grasp why the Shadowbringers story has hit such a chord with the community.
 

Raza

Member
Nov 7, 2017
877
Ohio
The latest expansion includes all previous expansions so buying Shadowbringers will grant you access to everything.

The story on the other hand is locked behind the completion of the Stormblood story which is locked by the completion of the Heavensward story which is locked by ARR. It’s all one big sequential story. You can skip directly to the Shadowbringers portion by forking over some additional cash on the cash shop, but you’ll probably be lost and not fully grasp why the Shadowbringers story has hit such a chord with the community.
Oh yeah I forgot Heavensward. Thank you for the detailed answered. I'll have to decide if I have the time for all that content.
 

antitrop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,681
Colorado Springs, CO
Oh yeah I forgot Heavensward. Thank you for the detailed answered. I'll have to decide if I have the time for all that content.
Assuming about 40 hours for the main story and 30 hours for the post-quests of each each expansion, it's somewhere in the ballpark of 140 hours to get from the end of ARR to the start of Shadowbringers. More if you haven't finished all the quests in between the end of ARR and the start of HS yet.
 

Zen

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,711
I watched a stream of a group running eden savage and over their talking I heard a program with timer ticks and automated callouts for fight mechanics. Is this the norm now? I was kind of taken aback. It was pretty much calling all the shots and the group was just following orders. I suppose it's meant for practice.
 

Killthee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,358
I watched a stream of a group running eden savage and over their talking I heard a program with timer ticks and automated callouts for fight mechanics. Is this the norm now? I was kind of taken aback. It was pretty much calling all the shots and the group was just following orders. I suppose it's meant for practice.
Pretty sure it’s been the norm for years now, its built into the parsing program people use. The native one to the parser requires the triggers to be written or imported from a file though so it wasn’t so widespread. Around Stormbloods release a plugin for it came out though that included the trigger files and updates them with new fights every content patch so it‘s simplified the process and made it more widespread .
 

QisTopTier

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,969
I watched a stream of a group running eden savage and over their talking I heard a program with timer ticks and automated callouts for fight mechanics. Is this the norm now? I was kind of taken aback. It was pretty much calling all the shots and the group was just following orders. I suppose it's meant for practice.
It's pretty much deadly boss mods for FF14

It uses ACT and the extension is called Cactbot
 

Fiye

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,338
weird to remember discord didn't even exist until just before heavensward

we raided with mumble servers like savages
Its absolutely wild how the Guildworks guys went to Discord and struck it huge.
I watched a stream of a group running eden savage and over their talking I heard a program with timer ticks and automated callouts for fight mechanics. Is this the norm now? I was kind of taken aback. It was pretty much calling all the shots and the group was just following orders. I suppose it's meant for practice.
Call outs have always been a thing since ACT has been used (There's a system in it that allows for TTS call outs based off what's happening). Initially they used Binding Coil Timeline app and it evolved into a straight up Timeline application for Heavensward / Early Stormblood and now we have Cactbot.

Its always been a thing its just gotten a lot easier to use it. (w/ the timeline app you had to run the specific file before starting the encounter).

There's a lot more add ons for FFXIV now that are getting kinda pretty dubious in how automated certain things can be. One add on I use automatically places markers when you commence a duty and I'm pretty sure it won't be long before someone figures out how to get it to work with Cactbot in a way that changes markers based off what ability/phase is happening to denote safe spots. (Think spinning fists from O12S. You could call out the safe spot as soon as he cast it with Cactbot prior to any headmath).

The add ons are gonna get wild in 2020.
 

aceface

Member
Oct 25, 2017
915
I don't know what the point is when you basically have an add on telling you what to do and where to go. Might as well buy a clear.
 

Fiye

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,338
I don't know what the point is when you basically have an add on telling you what to do and where to go. Might as well buy a clear.
I mean people have been doing this in some form for a long ass time.


After 5 years of raiding in FFXIV I don't quite need them (I cleared before Cactbot updated with the scripts) but it helps with reclears and honestly it doesn't take much to see a mechanic and and go 'Oh, I should make a trigger if/when I get this debuff'
 

Miletius

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
972
Berkeley, CA
So what's with this Eureka Island thing? I kinda stepped into it but it felt a bit overwhelming at first. I guess it's old content but I still had people playing it when I went into the instance.
 

Fiye

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,338
So what's with this Eureka Island thing? I kinda stepped into it but it felt a bit overwhelming at first. I guess it's old content but I still had people playing it when I went into the instance.
So when you're in Eureka you're set to level70 ilv300. They have their own leveling system which is basically 90% of what you want to focus on.

Levels 1-7 you can have a decent time soloing. (Stock up on Eureka Potions for self healing). Once you solo to a point where the exp gains start slowing do your weekly challenge logs and keep an eye out for any NMs that spawn.

Its a relatively long grind and with any luck you'll come out of it a relic weapon richer.

The Eureka Explorers discord will have plenty of information on it.
 

cdyhybrid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,249
So what's with this Eureka Island thing? I kinda stepped into it but it felt a bit overwhelming at first. I guess it's old content but I still had people playing it when I went into the instance.
It's probably pretty difficult to do at the moment since it's probably dead in there, but if/when they nerf it you can grind out a few levels on your own, join a challenge log group for a bunch of exp every week, then grind NMs (Notorious Monsters AKA boss FATEs) the rest of the time. Basically you just join a group and everyone runs around in a giant blob Zerging whatever NMs spawn. You get a bunch of EXP and also get the currencies for the Stormblood relic. There are four zones and an optional special dungeon at the end.
 

Rellyrell28

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,670
Tomorrow is the reset and since I beat Titan Saturday I hope these weekly clears are smoother cause and I hope I get my damn rod cause fuck this no spell speed/direct hit ass scythe I have when I get that rod it's going directly to the glamour chest.

Also starting to hit level 70 on my crafters now. Gonna feel good to over repair again.
 

QisTopTier

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,969
I don't know what the point is when you basically have an add on telling you what to do and where to go. Might as well buy a clear.
It just makes things more clear, it calls out the mechanic that is happening very rarely will it straight up tell you where to go that wasnt obvious. The only thing that it made far less of a clusterfuck was the red/blue in final omega. You are basically saying people shouldnt do call outs over discord either.

cactbot wasn't gonna do jack shit to help you execute stuff like this either.

 
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B.K.

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,968
I need to go back into Erueka and farm enough Anemos crystals to make my AF3 sets dyable and buy the Erueka gear. I want the Ozma mount, but that's never happening.
 
Oct 25, 2017
982
Addons and XIV are in a weird spot. I'm a pretty unapologetic tyrant when it comes to tool assists in prog (and, seriously, stuff like zoom hacks or anything that puts input into the game for you which are unabashed cheating can fuck right off), but there are combinations of events that have made tool assists varying levels of semi-expected and it gets to be a super grey area.

Nael's RP lines in UCoB is probably the gold standard for tool assisted mechanics--the original lines were designed, in Japanese, to have clear tells in text for what the mechanics were. Each mechanic was, IIRC, telegraphed with specific characters and was printed on its own line with the mechanic at the... front or end of the line, I. forget. In an attempt at ~QUALITY LOCALIZATION~ this clarity was absolutely destroyed in the English translation, with various wording in different phrases, and things on a single line. No clear break, no consistent indicator, and it increased the amount of memorization and reading required. It introduced artificial difficulty into the fight that wasn't intended by the original designer--you were meant to have to learn clear tells that were muddled in localization. I believe this was actually finally addressed in Shadowbringers, with Nael's RP and its formatting being corrected, but it was one of the first times I sucked it up and installed triggers for a mechanic. It didn't feel great, but I didn't feel like doing challenge mode because the English translation decided to sacrifice fight design for flowery prose. Without ACT triggers, they probably would have fixed the fight implementation sooner, but with them the artificial difficulty was removable until they did finally get around to addressing it.

I tend to contrast this with the UwU example--where people would program Triggernometry to call out and/or auto mark where people should place Titan gaol--because this was a mechanic meant to intentionally be rushed coordination and intentionally not super-obviously telegraphed. It was supposed to be hectic and reward teamwork, it was the same difficulty level for everyone doing the fight, and offloading the actual thinking part to a plugin felt wrong to me. I refused to consider triggers and shouted down people I raided with who wanted to use them. This was not the common route people took with the mechanic, but I wouldn't have felt right clearing without us being able to handle priority ourselves.

And then you get into things like Anatman. The short version is: Anatman is bullshit garbage and everyone involved in its current implementation should feel bad; the long version is that a 'proper' Anatman opener literally relies on the tank pulling at a specific time with relation to server ticks. This is incredibly stupid. It also means if your monk is trying to do really well at a fight, either somebody is installing the stupid Anatman timer plugin so the pull is synced properly, or you're ruining some of your monk's pulls because Anatman is a garbage mechanic and the server tick comes late. The existence of the tick timer plugin makes it somewhat controllable, which probably puts a lid on some of the monk complaining, so maybe without plugins there'd be more pressure to fix that, too. But in the end we accept the existence of the stupid plugin and do countdowns in multiples of 3.

I dunno--I used to make my own timelines to help me with mid-fight planning during farm/optimization runs. It took forever. Now, once we're out of prog, I update Cactbot and they're all sitting there and I don't have to spend fifty years picking through fflogs and figuring out the best sync points. I'm still a nightmare to deal with when it comes to anything I consider cheating--at this point nobody even seriously suggested the Titan plate-punch triggers because it wouldn't have gone well--but when trying to plan CD usages having the timeline handy is nice, and when revisiting a fight after an extended period of not running it (or venturing into parts of a fight you haven't seen it survive to in a while),a timeline is a convenient way to not sandbag.

Everyone basically has to develop their own standards and find people to raid with that either have the same or will put up with them; I'm all for the devs coming up with ways to break Cactbot and timelines if they can, but at this point I've more or less adjusted to using it for the timeline and ignoring the warning text 90% of the time (finding out that it cheated the lasers in O12S while watching somebody cheat on their stream was hilarious, since I'd apparently been ignoring it for months at that point.)
 

Moara

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,057
The fact that ACT is REQUIRED to optimally play Monk is the dumbest thing in the world. What were they thinking lol
 

scy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
210
On-board the "not during prog" with respect to Cactbot train. Part of the push to clearing early is basically just get it done before dealing with PF strat / Cactbot triggers for everything. The biggest gripe is the extent of things that do memory reads vs contextualized triggers, though. I wrote my own triggers back in the day simply because reading chat logs or constantly monitoring buff/debuff slots (back in HW-era limited options for this part of the UI) was an extra unneeded chore. As mentioned above, UCoB was the first big "Yeah no just do it fuck that." It's not like it was hard to memorize the like 8 total lines needed so much as it was an unnecessary hassle because #Translators. But those were converting data you have in front of you into your response instead of you having to take the moment to interpret the information. Memory read information like UwU Titan gaols or Final Omega's basically everything or E4S Titan punches or healer gaols is another manner. These convert data before you can see it, in some cases taking information you never actually see, and printing out information from it. Edit: Obligatory shout-out to A11S as the OG memory-read with Shiva circle uptime.

I never really bothered with Cactbot until post-Alpha back-to-UCoB time simply because rewriting my old triggers / finishing timelines was more effort than installing it. Didn't update Cactbot until our E4S clear and I still spend a good amount of time ignoring specifics (thanks E4S) even well into farm. But, at the same time, I pretty heavily rely on the timeline now as it let me fine-tune my cooldowns for max uptime and milking uses. I do a lot of ~19.0-19.5s pre-buster cooldowns which makes for better weave windows for me (Gunbreaker) when it comes to tight spots as everything lines up with Gunblade combo; comparing it to my Sigma parse runs / UwU prog or Alphascape everything, all of my play is much tighter to the second now.

It just makes things more clear, it calls out the mechanic that is happening very rarely will it straight up tell you where to go that wasnt obvious. The only thing that it made far less of a clusterfuck was the red/blue in final omega. You are basically saying people shouldnt do call outs over discord either.

cactbot wasn't gonna do jack shit to help you execute stuff like this either.
I mean, let's be real here. For a lot of mechanics it really is as simple as it printing out "go here" things. And I'm still not entirely sure what part of Hello World 2 it couldn't essentially trivialize? Maybe base installation Cactbot since it didn't know how to layer callouts to strat but contextualizing it with Unreal or Uptime Unreal or Fennek-but-no-actually-just-use-Unreal-variants was very much possible. Then again, taking the effort to tweak a thing to match your strat is at least one person demonstrating knowing what the strat is but still, it's fairly capable of turning it into "just do this."

Basically, I think O12S and UwU are basically the perfect examples of fights that Cactbot hit really hard in terms of trivializing major mechanics out of? Watching a lot of 'late' progs and seeing what some of those fights looked like with Cactbot was pretty much wishing really hard every Tuesday / hotfix for something that killed it for at least a week just to see people struggle because I'm a petty person I guess.

I dunno--I used to make my own timelines to help me with mid-fight planning during farm/optimization runs. It took forever. Now, once we're out of prog, I update Cactbot and they're all sitting there and I don't have to spend fifty years picking through fflogs and figuring out the best sync points.
This was literally the selling point of Cactbot. "It took weeks of every night tweaking this text file" to "so now I just have my working timeline." I kept that old folder of notepad files as an in memory of thing that I look fondly back at "why is this off -2s now when we added +1s to the timeline."

The fact that ACT is REQUIRED to optimally play Monk is the dumbest thing in the world. What were they thinking lol
On one hand, I don't necessarily care about pulling on 21s vs 20s. Even the lining up the tick itself isn't a big deal. On the other, the fact that Monks even NEED to do this is more annoying than the actual execution. The fact that it's a personal tick also makes it kind of awkward.

But, really, I think the actual answer is just ... they didn't think of Anatman being used like this. I think they kind of begrudgingly accept it now with the Meditation tweak and it's all for the worse that they let it exist. Hopefully come 5.1 it gets taken out back and shot and replaced with something less "oh no we late pulled 0.1s and my Anatman tick is now at the end of my oGCD window" levels.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,514
One thing I've noticed that I'm not a huge fan of is that I think certain "passive" enemy types ought to be far more reactive to when their buddies are getting slaughtered. I strolled up to a few goblin encampments last night and a bunch of them were hanging out around a campfire. I killed one after the other and the rest would just sit there, lol.

Don't know if this reference will click with anybody here but it felt not unlike the Kelpiens awaiting the inevitable Ba'ul from Star Trek: Discovery...
Some enemies aggro with sound while other just visually. So they might not be as 'active', but rather they aggro by hearing your footsteps, while the others will just aggro if the have direct line vision with you.
 

aceface

Member
Oct 25, 2017
915
It just makes things more clear, it calls out the mechanic that is happening very rarely will it straight up tell you where to go that wasnt obvious. The only thing that it made far less of a clusterfuck was the red/blue in final omega. You are basically saying people shouldnt do call outs over discord either.

cactbot wasn't gonna do jack shit to help you execute stuff like this either.

As least with callouts, someone knows the fight. Anyways, you do you but I don't like how they can trivialize some mechanics. It takes the feeling of satisfaction out of learning something like the red/blue patterns in O12S.
 

SpoonyBob

Member
Oct 27, 2017
623
Arkansas
We need a goose minion
Seen tons of people walking around with the Ugly Duckling minion recently. Figure that's pretty close.


Ugly Duckling Description said:
After suffering countless barbs from his bullying brothers, this tiny wavekin had enough and left its home in Neverreap to find someplace he'd be called beautiful, too.

Hiss at me, he did; fierce as goose, he was. - Jezul Ahuatan
 

FaulPern

Member
Dec 1, 2017
167
Switzerland
I really wish that this game was on Xbox.
Do you only have an Xbox? The game runs pretty well on low end PCs and supports Xbox controllers so that's an alternative.

I think they wanted to bring it to Xbox but Microsoft's stance on online service games requires Xbox Live Gold even if you're not going through Live's servers. That's a blocker for Square-Enix, even if nothing else is stopping them from doing a port.
 

SpoonyBob

Member
Oct 27, 2017
623
Arkansas
I've heard a couple of different reasons on why it's not on Xbox, but not really sure which is the heart of the matter. There's the Xbox Live Gold thing, but other reasons I've heard are that they want to limit chat across platforms, or require the player to have the ability to opt out of contact with other platforms and play only with xbox users. Both of those would be pretty antithetical to the point of an MMORPG to begin with.
 

Quinton

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,863
The Research Triangle
Man I would love to read a diary of you going through all of the dungeons, trials and raids and not using any of the MMO lingo.
Ha! I’ll start jotting down more of my adventures through inability to parse the lingo!

Some enemies aggro with sound while other just visually. So they might not be as 'active', but rather they aggro by hearing your footsteps, while the others will just aggro if the have direct line vision with you.
That’s pretty neat.