You're not wrong about the gordias thing. Kinda makes me wish instead of a single ultimate fight we got a full ultimate raid tier that will never happen though. :P
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Final Fantasy XIV: Stormblood |OT| A Realm Reset
- Thread starter Red XIII
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I knew this was going to get picked out the moment I wrote it. I am not saying I do that but the reality is most do it because it's easier to fish for balance. And all of you have to keep in mind that the people in statics doing only savage raid content are just a tiny tiny percentage of the actual player base.
I am totally optimistic that they are doing the right thing and that it will make more sense if we see the whole picture. We haven't seen anything at this point. And if all of this means we'll get another healing job in future expansions, even better!
Yeah, I made my first comment with the assumption of 70s in my head, not 60s. 60s makes it exist in this weird spot where you'll end up holding it for optimal use eventually. Or hope for a boss invuln phase somewhere that lets you realign. PLD self-aligns fairly well but they didn't align with raid buffs very well which was always a weird sticking point with me in speedrun stuff.
Yeah. Heart of Light was the assumed party shield and/or party mitigation, Lightning Shot is the pull, and then we have four unknowns. All we do know is Camouflage and Bow Shock are oGCDs and Sonic Break is a GCD. Danger Zone is an actual unknown I believe so it can be anything! Though with it at Level 18, I'd bet it's either a different self-buff or a utility button (e.g., Stun).
Edit:
Not necessarily sure how that makes the change in cards somehow not a massive simplification that strips it of all choice.
I feel like another two years of the current situation is pretty bad, no matter what may or may not happen down the road. Especially if their current "wait for the healer rework! You'll see why no new job!" is this pretty garbage situation.
Hmm not sure how I feel about my main, SAM, in ShB based on what we know. The recent leaks made me even less sure of what to play.
On one hand SAM seems to be buffed in raw damage output and double midare is probably going to feel awesome to throw at the enemy and the new single target kenki move looks great as well. But changes to hagakure, the leaked lv 80 ability (big wtf, lul and nooo on this one) and just what SE said about SAM during the job show case is making me a bit scared. More damage but easier to play... why... it's already seen as one of the easier jobs? I was hoping for some kind of ability that increased the skill floor a bit.
NIN, DRG, MNK, SMN and MCH all seem to get great changes though so if SAM is butchered I guess a switch will happen. I just hope one of the jobs in ShB is as fun to me as SB SAM is right now. Also I am in a static so can't even play whatever I want if someone else picks another job first... What to do, what to do... Feeeeelsbad.
On one hand SAM seems to be buffed in raw damage output and double midare is probably going to feel awesome to throw at the enemy and the new single target kenki move looks great as well. But changes to hagakure, the leaked lv 80 ability (big wtf, lul and nooo on this one) and just what SE said about SAM during the job show case is making me a bit scared. More damage but easier to play... why... it's already seen as one of the easier jobs? I was hoping for some kind of ability that increased the skill floor a bit.
NIN, DRG, MNK, SMN and MCH all seem to get great changes though so if SAM is butchered I guess a switch will happen. I just hope one of the jobs in ShB is as fun to me as SB SAM is right now. Also I am in a static so can't even play whatever I want if someone else picks another job first... What to do, what to do... Feeeeelsbad.
I just want to know who hurt the people who design healers, based on the leaked tooltips it seems like AST got gutted hard, SCH got gutted and now only has one dot, no energy drain or shadow flare which is just wtf, and whm actually seems okay provided they can dia and aero 2. Everything just feels so samey, they killed the power of buffing AST had, gave SCH a ton more options to pump out raw heals with guaranteed crit indoms, fairy aoe, soil regeneration, etc.
Will need to wait to play and see but kind of meh right now. Sort of wanna swap to Dancer.
Will need to wait to play and see but kind of meh right now. Sort of wanna swap to Dancer.
Fishing for balance doesn't preclude playing an Arrow, and part of fishing is knowing what to do when you get non-Balance cards. You literally said:
And then rule out giant chunks of how the current card system works because... casual players don't minmax it? I'm not saying you have to care that they're simplifying the card system and shaving off a lot of the nuance and complexity that it had--not everyone nerds out on this stuff the way I do, and I get that--but it's weird to push that the nuance and complexity doesn't exist just because Savage raiders are the minority. I get that. I also get that, as a person who literally only cares about Savage at this point as a way to get into Ultimate where things get interesting, I'm a minority of a minority.
You can play AST now just rapid-firing single target cards on people, and it's mostly fine. You can play AST now as an AOE balance bot that refuses to ever cast another card, and it's fine. The difference now is that there is a ton more you can do with the system--and a ton more to keep it mentally engaging--that is getting hacked off for the new system which, based on the pretty comprehensive tooltips we have seen thus far, doesn't have a lot of there there. We flat out lose a lot of the ways we used to be able to interact with our cards--both pre and post application--and things work out to a very, very simple decision tree unless there's a secret trait that will somehow upend everything that's not reflected in a single skill tooltip.
I'm not saying everyone has to be concerned, but I am going to object to pretending everything we have doesn't indicate a lot of mental processing time leftover when we shift to the new system.
Legit this HAS to be we're missing something. The only way to make sense of this skill otherwise is that the guy in charge of SAM saw the healer stuff and had a hold my beer moment to out stupid it.
I wanna imagine the tooltip potency is wrong and its meant to be way higher than that because holding out Meditation for like 4gcds to do a 500 potency attack is the biggest no-no I've seen in this game in a while.
It needs to be 2000 potency to be a capstone that is worth 4 GCDs
Just on this, it's not THAT bad. A 6% on tanks isn't going to be doubling the DPS of tanks compared to ranged DPS. Assuming they keep roughly the same system as now, you'll get a little more DPS on tanks(checking a random FFlog, if we assume DPS doing 9k and tanks doing 6k, you get 270DPS on the DPS and 360DPS on the tank). The cards also aren't really duds because of that, you still get 3% even if you have 2DNCs in your party, which you know you will.
I'd say a bigger complaint imo is that, it actually kinda doesn't matter if you fuck up your card choices anymore. Messing up what you did before could have pretty terrible consequences(using a RR aoe ewer is like...well you know) but now, even if you click the wrong class, you're just losing 3% DPS on one person for 15secs. That's really not much overall(in the previous example, 90DPS for 15s so a whooping 1350damage total, less than half a healer nuke). So you can kinda just do whatever, and if you need the seals you're probably better off just dropping the card regardless of wether or not you have a valid target. It removes a lot of the decision making as to wether or not you should play this card and what you should do with it. If you draw the right seal, just play it. Preferably on the right class, but even if you don't, shrug.
Guess we will have to wait and see but yeah the ability looks soooo bad right now. But who knows maybe the meditation stacks charges way quicker than the kenki? Or they are doing something with Meditate to actually make it useful and something we can use more freely? I don't know...
DNC's Technical Step does a 1500 pot attack for that specific reason so I can only imagine the values are wrong which happens kinda often in media tour tooltips.
That shit had to go with SCH getting a guaranteed crit ability.
My assumption on the meditation thing is it's either meant to be used REALLY rarely, which seems weird design for a new ability, or they did a bunch of changes to meditation. That and maybe they make it so you "save" your stacks from meditating, so you can meditate here and there and get more and more stacks, until you have 5 and dump it. Still not too sure, it feels very much like the old MNK Forgotten chakra, where you basically charged it before the fight, used it once, and then you maybe got one more use of it during a fight by doing Chakras here and there, and that was fucking awful.
They eventually changed it in SB to the current system where on top of that, you get Chakra from crits AND Brotherhood generate chakras from other ppl weapon skills, so I'd expect it works the same way for SAM(why they'd make the same thing though, I'm not sure). Like using Iaijutsus would give stacks(or maybe just Midare) or maybe some other thing like dots of Higanbana have a chance to generate a stack similar to bard procs.
So basically, if there's a boss break you can meditate and get the full nuke, and if there isn't, you just get it over time anyway so it's an infrequent oGCD that you have to make sure to dump whenever there's a boss break coming so you can make full use of meditation during it too.
That kinda emphasizes my issue with these recent leaks though. Don't leak a few skills, shit's just confusing. Organize your screenshots and leak an entire class at once, so we can see all the changes together in a way that makes sense. It's really annoying trying to piece together how the stuff is supposed to work when we don't know what the other skills that interact with it work. I can't tell if the leaker did a terrible job at the tour or what, you should be taking screens of every single ability and then organize that stuff for your articles coming out in 2days over the weekend, instead it's just a dump of random crap missing a lot of important things.
They eventually changed it in SB to the current system where on top of that, you get Chakra from crits AND Brotherhood generate chakras from other ppl weapon skills, so I'd expect it works the same way for SAM(why they'd make the same thing though, I'm not sure). Like using Iaijutsus would give stacks(or maybe just Midare) or maybe some other thing like dots of Higanbana have a chance to generate a stack similar to bard procs.
So basically, if there's a boss break you can meditate and get the full nuke, and if there isn't, you just get it over time anyway so it's an infrequent oGCD that you have to make sure to dump whenever there's a boss break coming so you can make full use of meditation during it too.
That kinda emphasizes my issue with these recent leaks though. Don't leak a few skills, shit's just confusing. Organize your screenshots and leak an entire class at once, so we can see all the changes together in a way that makes sense. It's really annoying trying to piece together how the stuff is supposed to work when we don't know what the other skills that interact with it work. I can't tell if the leaker did a terrible job at the tour or what, you should be taking screens of every single ability and then organize that stuff for your articles coming out in 2days over the weekend, instead it's just a dump of random crap missing a lot of important things.
It's more I've done enough EXDRs to know the situation where the tank was pulling 4k for the dungeon and the DPS 2k. Which I can card the tank in this situation, it's going to give the exact same return on what should be the smarter play (the guy doing the most damage to be buffed) as the dumb play (the guy pushing a button every third GCD). And I don't know what terminology people fill find acceptable for what you call your cards when party comp means they'll be nerfed all dungeon, but it's not great.
My golden standard for "I have done something horribly wrong" was always accidentally Balancing myself--doing the AOE Ewer of shame got attention but really only set you back 30s most times. Self-balancing meant I'd take five more draws to get the next one and regret my life choices. But, yeah, the overall idea that the job boils down to playing Sesame Street symbol matching for a weak raid wide on a long timer (with, for some reason, hilariously short range) is sort of the core of it. Just not a lot of there there.
I think I wanna give tanking another try once I finish with MNK. I stopped leveling my PLD at 48 because I didn't really enjoy controlling the flow of battle and leading people through a dungeon. I wanna try again maybe after watching a guide or something, but the glamour options aren't very motivating. There seems to be only like 3 pieces of armor that have capes, two of them being the PLD artifact armor. What's up with that?
Oh I see what you mean, I thought you meant dropping melee cards on tanks in an all ranged grp would somehow make the tanks do double DPS. Yeah in a lot of dungeons/casual content you're probably going to be carding the wrong role on purpose just because it's the one guy who does reasonable damage. I'm looking forward to choosing the WHM as my dance partner because they're the only ones using AoEs on trash and other stupid stuff like that too, and then have to deal with the pissy SAM who feels he deserves the buffs, even though he absolutely doesn't. Then again works the other way, looking forward to the AST/DNC only buffing their friend(or boy/girlfriend) even though they're absolutely terrible. That was the good thing about aoe buffs.
Yep lol. Only thing I see that as being useful for is downtime moments to get a "hey, here's a little bit of damage since the boss as gone" handout.
Gonna need to see the full picture on how SAM plays in 5.0 and final potency numbers before we'll really know though.
It's weird that Hagakure is straight up gone if the leaks are to be believed. That single target Guren though, oh baby.
Which leads to everyone hoping for bad tooltips (Divination, Shoha specifically) or just outdated builds (nearly everything with bad numbers). Even Afflatus looks pretty bad for WHM in the grand scheme of things in terms of what it costs to access.
On the subject of SAM, Hagakure's replacement being just "smash this on cooldown for 50% meter" is kind of lol. It's good but also just the entire Sen -> Kenki dynamic of Hagakure as the only real depth of the job just got straight poofed.
I'll wait until patch notes or the website is released to pass judgment about changes to jobs I play.
Not going to lie, that hagakure change got me pretty upset.
A lot of these changes got me feeling a certain kind of way, honestly. I like a few of them but I'm not a fan of just straight gutting out a lot of the technical quirks and gimmicks that gave jobs a lot of room for good players to take advantage of them in favor of making them easier to play. The encounter design better be off the walls interesting if jobs are going to be generally easier.
A lot of these changes got me feeling a certain kind of way, honestly. I like a few of them but I'm not a fan of just straight gutting out a lot of the technical quirks and gimmicks that gave jobs a lot of room for good players to take advantage of them in favor of making them easier to play. The encounter design better be off the walls interesting if jobs are going to be generally easier.
That removes the fun of my babyraging over things now.
Seriously though, it's mostly just fun to speculate. Even if a lot of it is pretty depressing right now.
The thing I'm curious to see is if they put all the extra AoE to use and give us a lot more encounters with an actual large amount of adds. Which on one hand, neat. On the other hand, pad city in an expansion built around ST padding thus far. All the jobs thus far got simplified in some way so, yeah, right there with you on encounter design better be stressing the hell out of us mechanically if that's the case
Also just confirm another Ultimate again :| If we somehow get all this and stuck with no Ultimate, then this is just downright awful.
Well all the SAM players saying that the level 80 ability is underwhelming need to remember that the WHM job exists. Plenary Indulgence (WHM lvl 70) could be removed from the game and I'm not sure many people would even notice, so it isn't like SE is opposed to making level cap skills bad.
so MNK's fourth GL is only attainable through fists of wind? So it's another case of trading damage for speed?
increasing the percentage rate of chakra in deep meditation is good, even if i still think a rng based mechanic is not fun for MNK
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huh?? im not getting the recast thing
increasing the percentage rate of chakra in deep meditation is good, even if i still think a rng based mechanic is not fun for MNK
edit:
huh?? im not getting the recast thing
Off GCD, then when you hit it EVERYTHING goes on a 4.88 second cooldown is how I read that.so MNK's fourth GL is only attainable through fists of wind? So it's another case of trading damage for speed?
increasing the percentage rate of chakra in deep meditation is good, even if i still think a rng based mechanic is not fun for MNK
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huh?? im not getting the recast thing
me when I have to wait for 4.88 seconds doing nothing
this seems like a skill to get ready for boss downtime instead of using tornado kick
so MNK's fourth GL is only attainable through fists of wind? So it's another case of trading damage for speed?
increasing the percentage rate of chakra in deep meditation is good, even if i still think a rng based mechanic is not fun for MNK
edit:
huh?? im not getting the recast thing
So basically, if you know downtime is coming, you use this to still have some GL by the time the downtime ends? Meh.
They're acting like Monks are the Thanos of FFXIV and they NEED balance and checks lest they become too strong.
Except their balance is just "oh you want damage? trade speed. You want speed? trade damage", just give me both why should i need fists of wind to get GL4? This means that I need to remove GL4 to use riddle of fire
I still have GL4 and the stack regen skills so I'm still happy overall, at least the rotation will be more involved and less linear
Except their balance is just "oh you want damage? trade speed. You want speed? trade damage", just give me both why should i need fists of wind to get GL4? This means that I need to remove GL4 to use riddle of fire
I still have GL4 and the stack regen skills so I'm still happy overall, at least the rotation will be more involved and less linear
so MNK's fourth GL is only attainable through fists of wind? So it's another case of trading damage for speed?
increasing the percentage rate of chakra in deep meditation is good, even if i still think a rng based mechanic is not fun for MNK
edit:
huh?? im not getting the recast thing
If the leaks are correct FoW has more speed but less damage, so I guess now MNK has 2 playstyles fire normal bigger numbers and slower. If they are so adamant about keeping tornado kick they should have added the effects of that new one instead of making a whole new skill.
So they wanted to close the gap between average and high skilled players on MNK yet it looks like they are making it somehow more technical and convoluted.
Honestly even if Monk's DPS is much lower in Fists of Wind mode I'm still gonna use it.
But I'm guessing that it will be possible to play hybrid and it will become the best way to play, as in use riddle of fire when available
I hope it is indeed a choice and that they don't expect us to play fire and wind from time to time, I couldn't deal with the opener after wind tackle had greased lighting.
Ultimate was already confirmed. Yoshida even mentioned they had a fight in development for 4.5 but since they decided to not do 3 fights they just delayed it to Shadowbringers.
Lol they kept Sleep on WHM, but why tho.
Out of all of my years playing, the only time someone has effectively used it was sleeping the second lizard that spawns on the second boss of Brayflox's Longstop.
Out of all of my years playing, the only time someone has effectively used it was sleeping the second lizard that spawns on the second boss of Brayflox's Longstop.
Sleep turned out to be pretty useful in Eureka. You can save yourself by sleeping an enemy and running away. There was even an enemy in Baldesion Arsenal that you needed sleep to interrupt their cast. If they're indeed doing another Eureka-like area for the ShB relics then I can see why they kept it in.
Oh, that makes sense, but given logos actions I think it would have been better to move it to that system instead. But now that healers gonna heal, it would be pretty funny if there are more enemies like the one you mention on basic content like dungeons or trials.
If no more crit-lo spread is a thing that just means I'll take a no resource cost crit indom to heal after. Old shield rules for limit break building are gone anyways. Auto-Crit excogs could be nice too potentially.
I, for one, am super excited for the next few months of "WHM doesn't need party buffs, its strong personal DPS will make it just as good!" until DPS's damage curve carries it high enough for even nuAST's lolsy Buffs to outpower the blood lily. And that's assuming they find encounter design that makes the DPS loss generating a blood lily takes the most efficient way to handle that damage.
Like, if there's one thing I want to get across, it's that all of these healer changes fit exactly in with how they were trying to balance healers in Stormblood. They didn't really think new things and take a new tact with Shadowbringers, they just.. did it again some more.
Like, if there's one thing I want to get across, it's that all of these healer changes fit exactly in with how they were trying to balance healers in Stormblood. They didn't really think new things and take a new tact with Shadowbringers, they just.. did it again some more.
It has some new interesting tools like the solar / lunar / star skill but they really ruined cards, the fact that not every card was useful at all times is a great idea because getting the right one feels more rewarding, with the inclusion of their SB skills you could minor them or just royal road and get more.
Now all of them do exactly the same, a boring damage buff, at least 2 should buff dmg / 2 skill speed / 2 crit.
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