Finally bought a 4K TV and confirmed it is indeed a waste of rendering resources

Oct 28, 2017
4,872
A dumpster
#51
Preach, OP.

It’s just a cheap way to market new hardware for manufacturers since it costs nothing in assets budget(if they have HQ textures already) to resize framebuffers.
It matters to a certain point. 1080-1440p with good AA is more than enough even for big screens.
So it matters when it’s convenient for you? This argument dumb as fuck, 4x the amount of detail is always going to be better.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,154
#52
Disagree with you OP. Playing a 1080p game and then playing a 4k game is a significant difference. Your comment about the "mighty X", there are several games that have added effects such as draw distance, texture quality, LOD, shadow quality etc. that at 4k makes a significant difference and the "X" can be had for $399.99 not $500 if you bothered to look.

I think you need glasses or play some other games like Horizon Zero Down and Gran Turismo on your PS4 PRO and see how good those games look on a 4k set. They look significantly better than on a 1080p screen.
 
Nov 10, 2017
660
#53
4k does look clearer and cleaner, BUT given the limited resources of consoles I sort of agree with OP about hitting a balance between resolution and the rest of the game.
 
Oct 27, 2017
754
#54
When you have a high quality 1080p TV and you play games downsampled from higher resolution on it, and you don't sit too close to it - advancement to a similarly sized 4K TV with a similar seating position definitely doesn't feel revelatory. In my day to day life, I go back and forth between a very high res monitor I use for work and some gaming, and a 1080p OLED TV, I never really think, "oh man if this TV just was 4K" It's not even at the back of my mind. I wish in future, games would focus more on framerate than the increasing resolution, especially now that all kinds of rendering tricks like CBR are available to create nearly invisible shortcuts.
 
Oct 25, 2017
461
#55
Some better blacks are not worth the easy image burn in that plagues OLED so far, which is even more important since we are taking videogames here.

Also OLEDs still need some work when it comes to brightness.

This idea that OLED are superior and LED is old tech and should be replaced is antiquated.
Been playing for a 2 years no burn in, can you link me to the leds tv superior to Sony or LG oleds?
 

JayBee

Alt-account
Member
Dec 6, 2018
1,332
#56
I agree. Got a 4k tv and I tried it out but I really see no difference so I play everything on 1080p now
 
Aug 22, 2018
45
#57
My setup isn’t very conventional, as I have a 49” TV as my PC monitor.

Playing games at 1080p looks bad to me.
I can’t wait for 4K60 to be possible without a $1000 GPU
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,612
#58
IMO when you're ready to make the jump, you gotta do it the right way: OLED.

The blacks are more of a game changer to me than 4K or HDR.
Current high-end LCDs can do blacks quite well; about as well as plasmas could before. Is it "perfect black," no, but hardly worth advising that OLED is the "right way" or the only way.

And so it dawned on me. I know even the almighty X can't manage to reach native 4K most of the time, and that's with games being targeted at a really weak console (The S).
As for the OP, this comment here shows that they are misinformed or willfully ignorant. Check the Xbox One X Enhanced titles thread to witness how many titles are in a true 2160p (and/or feature graphical upgrades). And then, because they actually own a Pro, check out Liabe Brave 's PS4 Pro Enhancements thread for 2160p titles (and/or feature graphical upgrades).

HDR /is/ pretty great but it being tied to 4K is a commercial, not technical decision.
True, but I sure wouldn't have any interest in a 1080p tv with HDR functionality, when I can get a 4K one with HDR and benefit from both the high dynamic range and an increase in resolution.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,841
#59
You're not wrong.

I spent a ton of cash for the 4K upgrade of my home theater setup, upgraded both the TV and AVR, cost me like $4k in total. Complete waste of money. There is a difference but I can't say it's big unless I sit like a little kid on the floor in front of the living room table like 1-2 meter from the TV. Everytime I can I choose performance mode instead because a nice framerate is something I can instantly see and feel no matter the viewing distance.
I'll eventually upgrade the projector though, hopefully that will make the upgrade worthwhile.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,652
Tampa
#60
You're on to something OP

Hopefully PS5 targets 720p so they can add more graphics. Who the fuck cares about being able to see anything anyway? I love blurred image quality.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,054
#61
I bought a 4k120hz monitor. Can confirm that I need more horsepower because it's an incredible, highly worthwhile use of resources.

Your loss, OP.
 
Oct 27, 2017
754
#62
I think you need glasses or play some other games like Horizon Zero Down and Gran Turismo on your PS4 PRO and see how good those games look on a 4k set. They look significantly better than on a 1080p screen.
This is much less of a case than you'd think when the games in question offer downsampling to 1080p (and they do). It's one thing to go from 1080p TV with Xbox One S (where so much is up-scaled) to a 4K TV with Xbox One X / PS4Pro, than to use those higher end consoles on a 1080p TV with downsampling that they offer.
 
Jul 14, 2018
3,258
#63
I'd rather have that extra power be used for a better frame rate (don't stop at 60hz) or more effects, but I seriously don't understand how you can't see the difference.
 
Nov 12, 2017
2,276
#64
Samsung Nu7100. Great TV, I'm very happy and it looks great after calibration. And yes I'm wearing my glasses lol.
No offense, but it's a budget TV as far as LED tvs go. No local dimming, poor HDR performance, poor motion handling, only 60 hz native refresh rate. There are many better TVs.
 
Dec 1, 2017
2,341
The Land
#65
Hard to imagine.

I have a PS4 Pro hooked up to a 1080p monitor, and the slightly higher native res of a game like Skyrim for example, displayed on a 1080p monitor, is jaw dropping. I marvel at the IQ. I have to imagine a 4K display has more impact than that.
 
OP
OP
Baccus
Dec 4, 2018
978
#67
As for the OP, this comment here shows that they are misinformed or willfully ignorant. Check the Xbox One X Enhanced titles thread to witness how many titles are in a true 2160p (and/or feature graphical upgrades). And then, because they actually own a Pro, check out @Liabe Brave 's PS4 Pro Enhancements thread for 2160p titles (and/or feature graphical upgrades).
I understand, but imagine if instead of 4K with increased shadow quality and LOD we got 1440p with added geometry and light sources? Will that break the spell? Of course not! It would enhance it.

That's what I'm arguing for. Simply brute forcing a (very costly) resolution boost isn't worth it over more graphical features that videogame rendering still lack.
 
Nov 7, 2017
77
#68
I agree, Op, but wrong place to share. Ironically some people here are blind to the idea of graphical advancement being more desirable than a resolution bump. If they had it their way we'd all be playing Risk of Rain looking games at 16k.
 
Oct 30, 2017
407
#69
I'm the opposite, I have a hard time going back to anything not supporting Pro or X. Games like Horizon are revelatory in their 4k HDR implementation and make the act of playing more exciting given the visual presentation.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,543
#70
There /is/ a difference, in that everything is clearer. I can see that.

But when I read that these beast machines are struggling to get up there and knowing how much power is needed to /just/ up the resolution I weep inside, for staying at 1080 or 1440p would allow devs go deeper into the simulation.
Beast machines? What beast machines? Surely you can't be talking about these consoles.
 
Oct 29, 2017
312
#71
I love my 4ktv and everything I play on it. I love my 1440p and 4k monitor as well.

HDR implementation is hit or miss with games currently but I would not want to keep 1080p standard. I am way too accustomed to the extra visual fidelity.

And plenty of games run 4k or CBR 4k 60 fps on X and pro.

Looking forward to ryzen/navi next gen
 
OP
OP
Baccus
Dec 4, 2018
978
#72
No offense, but it's a budget TV as far as LED tvs go. No local dimming, poor HDR performance, poor motion handling, only 60 hz native refresh rate. There are many better TVs.
You understand that videogames consoles run at 60fps max right?. And while the TV doesn't have lots of bells and whistles, it is well rated for image quality.

And if devs are sacrificing graphical advancements so the 1% of TVs can have some benefits then I'm sorry but priorities are way misplaced.
 
Oct 30, 2017
2,365
NYC
#73
I'm not saying there is no difference, I can see the difference, but is it worth it over more complex scenes or advanced lighting models? I don't think so.

Base consoles next gen should be capped at 1440p.
Why not both? The Xbox One X already does this. Gaming PC already do this.

Look at it this way...the PS2 had higher resolution games than the PS1...same all the way until now. When have we seen a system release at a higher resolution than its predecessor AND not improve the graphics and such?
 
Dec 14, 2017
450
#74
OP is saying the age old conumdrum of development. Do devs chase tech or fidelity? The answer has almost always been the latter with each hardware progression. That's because it's easier to detect from anyone. Average consumer does not care about AI simulation or transparent mirror texture tricks, they care if it looks 'good' and we all know what the standard for 'good' graphics are. But I do disagree with OP, it's not a waster of workhours or dev time or rendering resources.
 
Nov 23, 2018
98
#75
I agree with you OP and I find hard to believe that if you compare the lighting effects difference between previous gen to this gen you would prefer the resolution race to that kind of jump in effects.

That said dont take it personally, many people here read but fail to understand the meaning of what they read and they just think you're trashing their 1000k+ investment for this gen and feel hurt.

Why not both? The Xbox One X already does this. Gaming PC already do this.

Look at it this way...the PS2 had higher resolution games than the PS1...same all the way until now. When have we seen a system release at a higher resolution than its predecessor AND not improve the graphics and such?
Because there's so much you can progress from one gen to another without incurring in ridiculous pricing, so you either pursue one or the other. We have had a mid-gen refresh this gen with more expensive hardware and it has only been useful to improve the pixel count.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,809
#77
OP, buy an xbox one X and boot up red dead 2 and if you genuinely feel the same way after seeing that game and it's vistas..I don't know...but i can categorically disagree with you. Resolution does matter.
 
Oct 28, 2017
871
#78
Slightly off-topic: Man, can you imagine someone going from SD to 4K? I remember seeing 720p for the first time and it was unbelievable. I walk past these 4K OLEDs in the store when I go shopping and it puts my 10 year old 50" 720p Plasma to shame.
 
Nov 3, 2017
1,971
#80
on the one hand i agree hitting naitive 4k can be a pyrric victory if it comes at the cost of frames/cut down shadows etc, 1440p with everything maxxed out running at high frame rate is better imo than a cut down, 30 fps which is often the case for console ports. Having said that, the next gen should be more ready for 4k gaming and even on pc you are starting to see stuff like dlss to assist with creating a 4k image at an acceptable frame rate.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,072
#82
Uhm, what games did you test? Stuff like God of War looks stunning on a 4K panel, even if it’s checkerboard. Try some native 4K games and comment again.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,694
#83
Maybe you should finally buy some glasses OP? I seriously don't know how people can see high res detail and think... you know what I wouldn't mind if it was smudged!
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,050
#87
People really don't know how to read the OP.

He is seeing the exact same thing everyone is claiming he isn't seeing.

Simply put it. Games look certainly /clearer/ but they don't look /better/.
He is saying the cleaner look sacrifices other factors too much, like frame rate and not enough improvements on textures.
 
Jan 8, 2019
133
#88
Play AC on base XB and then play it on XBX

It's night an day and that's beyond the resolution. The lighting, vegetation, HDR all come together into this insane beautiful world.
 
Oct 25, 2017
222
Florida
#89
While I can't fully go in with your opinion I will say that 4k on PC is awesome it's just not worth the trade-off sometimes and I end up playing at 1440p for the most part to get everything to run at 60 frames. I can handle if a game is 30 frames just out of 6 fluctuating in the twenties.

as far as image quality and difference, there is clearly a difference in I do agree that in video such as movies there is a major difference. I got a 70" last year and totally don't regret the purchase especially when it comes to movies.

I'm not saying that indie titles and smaller budget games won't run on any decent hardware but from my experience a 1070 or higher is good for most games at 4K. if we're talking indie games then it is more than adequate and I love the clarity of playing certain games even the ones that are split screen which tend to sacrifice a degree of image quality for performance. A good example for me is Serious Sam Fusion.
 
Oct 28, 2017
198
#93
eh. must be your tv, games look great on my 65 inch LG OLED. The X does a fantastic job.

Edit: HDR is far more revelatory that 4k, and having a set with a decent HDR output is key.
 
OP
OP
Baccus
Dec 4, 2018
978
#94
OP, buy an xbox one X and boot up red dead 2 and if you genuinely feel the same way after seeing that game and it's vistas..I don't know...but i can categorically disagree with you. Resolution does matter.
Red Dead is a case for my argument actually. It's the best looking game of the gen at 4k or 720p. It's what it's rendering what matters.

I, of course, suppose it looks like a dream on the X, and I'm not denying that. But it's more about sheer talent than resolution.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,262
#95
Wonder which TV the OP got.

Because there can be a massive difference between TVs even if they all say "4k HDR".
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,050
#96
The OP is even offering a solution for a happy medium. Games should be targeting 1440p instead of 4K and offer better special effects than what can realistically be supported at 4K.
 
Jun 22, 2018
772
#97
I couldn't disagree more. We're reaching the point where game visuals have so much going on that at 1080p you just get one of two things: Terrible aliasing or tons of blur from aggressive modern anti-aliasing techniques (Especially TAA).

Without higher resolutions, like 4k, we will never be able to make significant progress towards photo realism because our eyes and mind are way too sensitive the the jagged edges and flickering caused by aliasing at these lower resolutions.

Modern AAA games have so much of this going on that their visuals almost never feel "clean" any more. The only time we get close to that clean visual feeling is when they're running at or near native 4k.
 
Oct 30, 2017
3,524
#98
But for most games it’s not just about higher res. There is clearly higher graphical settings in most games that are enhanced for the pro and x. Better textures , higher lod distances, better shadows.. ect
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,439
#99
From a PC gaming perspective, in a world where we're surrounded by 400-500ppi smartphone screens and laptops with more pixels than most TVs, using a 100ppi 1080p display feels like time traveling back to 2005
 
Oct 29, 2017
473
FH4 looks a million times better in the 1080p performance mode at 60fps than the motion blurred 30fps stuttering 4K mode.
Indeed. Plays a hell of a lot better too.

And yep I agree - there needs to be a happy medium but alas there never will be on consoles.