Indeed. Plays a hell of a lot better too.
And yep I agree - there needs to be a happy medium but alas there never will be on consoles.
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Finally bought a 4K TV and confirmed it is indeed a waste of rendering resources
- Thread starter Baccus
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Indeed. Plays a hell of a lot better too.
And yep I agree - there needs to be a happy medium but alas there never will be on consoles.
OP
OP
Millions of people and DigitalFoundry would disagree with you.
If 1080p looks better than 4K to you, consult an eye doctor.
The difference is huge. When I swap between 1080 and 4K in God of War all the jaggies just disappear it's crazy.
Yea, I certainly couldn't go back to a 1080p monitor after getting used to my 4k monitor.
i have had my oled 4k since November 2017 and I am starting to see ever so slight color banding on white moments during games.
big oooof. Oh well, KH3 and AC Odyssey and some other games look amazing on it.
big oooof. Oh well, KH3 and AC Odyssey and some other games look amazing on it.
Yep. Higher resolutions are mandatory to solve the aliasing problem. All the post-processing techniques that have been developed (FXAA, TSAA, etc.) basically just smear the image, because there's no other way to fake AA when you've just got a 1080p output to work with. Getting rid of jaggies necessitates higher res (see: supersampling, MSAA, etc).
Huh really - I felt the same. It perhaps looked better when it was still but in motion it looked and felt like garbage to me. Blurry and unresponsive.
I did only play in 4k mode for maybe 10 mins as I am allergic to 30. So can't say I looked at it for long
I totally agree with you, OP. Pushing 4k over new rendering techs / lighting / etc is simply put a huge waste of ressource imo. Considering most are playing 6-8 feets away from their TV, the difference in resolved detailed is rather nice but certainly not a necessity like some of the people that post here would lead you to believe. Soon in the future, the next marketing push will be 8K and this whole debate will start over. This will be fucking hard to notice any difference from a reasonable distance while the average gamer will be older, thus most likely meaning slightly worse vision capacity overall, yet you'll still see people posting and telling you how 8K is such big leap in quality that makes all the difference in the world.
I love my LG B6 OLED and was completely amazed by 4K and HDR the first year I had the TV but after some times, I noticed how it was just a nice clarity bump for the little distant details and nothing more. I'd take 1080p60 any day of the week over 4K, let alone 1440p which is a complete joke.
That's my point of view on the subject, anyway.
I love my LG B6 OLED and was completely amazed by 4K and HDR the first year I had the TV but after some times, I noticed how it was just a nice clarity bump for the little distant details and nothing more. I'd take 1080p60 any day of the week over 4K, let alone 1440p which is a complete joke.
That's my point of view on the subject, anyway.
Even you are misreading the OP.
To put it simply lets pretend devs wanted to go all out on ray tracing next gen. Ray tracing at 4k is unfeasible at 4K but way more realistic at 1080p.
The OP still wants better image quality in his games but he wants image quality coming from advanced techniques in shading, lighting and textures. Sacrificing all that to play at higher resolutions means all the games will look no better than last gen games in any other way.
It matters to a certain point if you don't enhance game assets(textures, polygon count, lighting etc)
I don't think gif above would have been impressive at all if it was 1440p to 8k or whatever jump unless you zoom way in.
Yea maybe OP had a really good 1080p TV then switched to a not so great 4k TV is one of the things I'm thinking.
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If you want to consider that the current state of graphical processing is somehow limiting developers, then, sure, your stance holds water. What we are seeing, however, is developers are able to bring their content to life and still have room for increased resolution and effects on the current mid-gen consoles. We are getting titles with < 2160p resolutions, as well as 2160p titles.
At the end of the day I leave the end results up to the teams that bring video games to life: I am no John Romero, so I defer to the experts and let them make the choices that they feel are correct for their title, given all the information they know and I do not.
It's not that 1080p looks better than 4K. It's that 30fps looks like crap.
And attempting to counter the stutter by blurring the shit out of the 4K image with motion blur so you don't see the resolution difference anymore is no doubt the dumbest way of wasting system resources I can think of. Great so now it's blurry and it still stutters.
Definitely disagree. I love 4K resolution or as close to it as possible even though I do believe that HDR will be the game changer next generation. Currently playing Detroit Become Human and im not sure of the actual resolution is but holy shit, game looks breathtaking and amazing especially with the facial animations. Lower the resolution and while the game would still look great, it wouldn't feel as realistic or as alive. And I have the Sony X800D 43" 4K HDR TV which is a mid-tier model. I can only imagine how much greater the game would look if I had a high end model.
They don't have to catch up. His problem is that they are merely just as good.
He is saying games being forced to improve very little or being stagnant in everything else in order to meet the demands of 4K is dissatisfying.
Yea a Sony X900F, for example, would blow you away and there's even better TVs than that.
4k is an absolutely necessary jump games need to take imo.
People underwhelmed usually have a budget 4k TV or an IPS monitor/TV or something where they expected much more than what they got.
Completely off-topic, but this deification of Digital Foundry on these forums really grates me. Yes, DF does good work, but to only focus on them shortchanges some of the others out there that also do amazing work in analyzing/sharing the updated graphics/features we get on mid-gen console support:
Candyland
VG Tech
Wccftech
I mostly agree with the OP. 4k is a modest improvement* from where best of HD was before it. The delta is a bit more pronounced if you only compare the two on a 4K panel - for obvious reasons, but even there, it's perceptually minor enough not to really stand out.
Fortunately it's usually paired with HDR which for me at least was the real game-changer and does more for the image than resolution has done in the last decade.
*Worth noting here that motion resolution of modern panels is so poor that differences only really come out on non-moving parts of the picture anyway. Except for panels that allow low-persistence (which generally works with 60fps content only in current panels), which is IMO the only way to get 4k games to look noticeably better 'most' of the time.
Fortunately it's usually paired with HDR which for me at least was the real game-changer and does more for the image than resolution has done in the last decade.
*Worth noting here that motion resolution of modern panels is so poor that differences only really come out on non-moving parts of the picture anyway. Except for panels that allow low-persistence (which generally works with 60fps content only in current panels), which is IMO the only way to get 4k games to look noticeably better 'most' of the time.
Somewhat agree, ps4 pro was a way better investment for psvr though. Worth it.
OP, this is an enthusiast forum where many people spend thousands of their savings on the latest tech they can get their hands on. Of course a thread like this is going to backfire. For something more objective, check out this video from Linus Tech Tips.
My 4K OLED looks better than your 1080 OLED :)
Honestly tho, while 1080 content looks stunning on an OlED, 4k looks better by far as well.
HDR ftw
Not sure what tv you purchased, but you'll have to pry my lg b6 oled out of my cold dead hands. 4k and HDR were both obviously huge upgrades to my eyes after putting on my glasses.
I thought for awhile that it didn't matter, Played Ps4 Pro games, didn't see a huge difference - they look better for sure, HDR seemed like a bigger thing. After hooking my PC up to my 4k TV, and going between 1440p and 4k, the difference is immediately noticeable when seeing native 4k. I will admit it's not as easy to notice if you don't switch between the resolutions. The biggest thing I think is It's a huge boost for games with lots of foliage.
My TV will be three years old in September since I bought it right after the PS4 Pro was announced but to be perfectly honest, Horizon Zero Dawn, God of War, Detroit, AC Origins/Odyssey, Ghost Recon Wildlands, Uncharted Lost Legacy and a few others have blown me away. I will get a high end model but until next gen starts so probably sometime in late 2020 or mid 2021 when that year's models come out.
Even with a mid-tier set like mine, I don't know how anyone could not be impressed as long as you have a PS4 Pro or Xbox One X to go with the TV. I'm hoping next gen allows RGB for HDR instead of YUV and it will be even better.
Baccus Put this vid in the OP along with the screenshots below. It's a waste of rendering resources that could be better spent on effects, higher framerate, etc. I'd take a checkerboard solution or straight 1440p and (60 fps or better effects) over just 4k.
Tiago Sousa agrees with you btw:
is that like saying 60 FPS is a a waste of rendering resources when 30 is fine for almost everyone? (its not 60 FPS is objectively better, and 4K is objectively better than 1080p). Part of OPs problem is probably he using the pro which can only really do 1440p. 4K on the scorpio is pretty good, on a monster PC it is quite the upgrade from 1080p.
Now you're just being silly.
That is a good point, though. ISF calibration is a standard for film, not video games. No such thing exists in our video game world. At best, we can only strive for color accuracy and a video signal unmolested by a TV's post-processing.
Considering that OLED's nits can't touch a candle (puns!) to the best LCDs', this statement is materially wrong. If you are exclusively talking about the lower end of the luminosity scale, then you'd be better at shining a light (puns!) on OLED's strengths, but high-end full-array LCDs handle that same luminosity almost as well.
OP you're right based on my own experience.
You can definetly notice 4K over 1080p (especially if you go back to 1080p after getting used to it) but it's nothing major even on a mid-sized screen (55 inches) and people who are not trained won't be able to tell any difference at all. That's why I find the race to 8K that TV manufacturers are starting even more laughable.
But overall 4K+HDR together is a big improvement over vanilla 1080p.
In any case at this point native 4K is the target resolution for next gen games and the hardware will be designed to be able to render at that res without particular issues.
You can definetly notice 4K over 1080p (especially if you go back to 1080p after getting used to it) but it's nothing major even on a mid-sized screen (55 inches) and people who are not trained won't be able to tell any difference at all. That's why I find the race to 8K that TV manufacturers are starting even more laughable.
But overall 4K+HDR together is a big improvement over vanilla 1080p.
In any case at this point native 4K is the target resolution for next gen games and the hardware will be designed to be able to render at that res without particular issues.
PC gamer here, my old monitor broke and I started shopping for my next display. I realized 4k was way too much for the horsepower that was needed far before this happened, so I figured it would be 1080p or 1440p.
I hope the next consoles won't focus on 4k, such a waste, and games will never hit 60+ fps as a standard with them continuing to up the resolution to sell tvs or something. What next, 8k?
Edit: Also the same week my PC display broke, I got a 4k 55 inch tv for the living room, I haven't even considered trying my PC on it since it's not a 2080 ti and a new unlocked intel or ryzen cpu. I have a ISP that give us monthly caps, so I did test some 4k youtube videos with HDR that most likely are compressed to the moon. Looks neat, but I wish a 1080p tv was bought, I have no idea if normal tvs are sold in 1440p.
I hope the next consoles won't focus on 4k, such a waste, and games will never hit 60+ fps as a standard with them continuing to up the resolution to sell tvs or something. What next, 8k?
Edit: Also the same week my PC display broke, I got a 4k 55 inch tv for the living room, I haven't even considered trying my PC on it since it's not a 2080 ti and a new unlocked intel or ryzen cpu. I have a ISP that give us monthly caps, so I did test some 4k youtube videos with HDR that most likely are compressed to the moon. Looks neat, but I wish a 1080p tv was bought, I have no idea if normal tvs are sold in 1440p.
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Yes, 8k is next and it looks great. Even just downscaled on a 4k TV/monitor. It will take a while though before we'll get viable frame rates.
I disagree.
Certain native 4k games look noticbly better then 4kcb games.
However God of wars implementation combined with its AA method I can live with.
With TV and movies, its not that big of a deal, sure I can see the extra detail with 4k content, it looks great but even 720p on my TV still looks really good and I'm not there thinking ew gross 720p..
Certain native 4k games look noticbly better then 4kcb games.
However God of wars implementation combined with its AA method I can live with.
With TV and movies, its not that big of a deal, sure I can see the extra detail with 4k content, it looks great but even 720p on my TV still looks really good and I'm not there thinking ew gross 720p..
I'm not sure how we've stagnated. Take Uncharted 3 vs Uncharted 4, Infamous 2 vs Second Son, MGS4 vs MGSV, RE6 vs RE2 Remake. There have been stark improvements beyond resolution. Is there a big difference between Horizon Zero Dawn on PS4 and on PS4 Pro outside of resolution? No, but that should never have been expected. Devs still have to work with a baseline of hardware that was released in 2013.
I got this effect just with supersampling at 1080p - hadn't noticed at first but going back the image looked noticeably softer.
It's like 720p never looked soft to me during last gen, but now it looks jaggy and soft as hell.
