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Fire breaks out at Notre Dame cathedral, developing situation [Update: major structural collapse - Art and other Assets Saved] (See Staff Post)

Nov 8, 2017
4,310
UK
Looking at the recent pictures of the interior and I can't help but be in awe at the craftsmanship and engineering that could yield such staying power.

Absolutely incredible how much survived and how well intact elements and arches immediately surrounding the collapsed spire are. For something to be so old yet survive such extreme conditions is always awe inspiring

I'm relieved so much remains standing, when it was uncertain how much could be saved I couldn't bear the thought of it all crumbling.

Many owe a debt to the firefighters involved, for not only managing to tackle such an inferno and placing themselves at risk but for having the bravery and respect to recover the art, and historical and religious artifacts. I hope the injured member of the team gets all the support needed for his recovery.
 
Oct 25, 2017
351
Hell I'm willing to bet if they set up a GoFundMe or something along those lines they'd get at least 10+ million just from regular people all around the world wanting to help. I'd definitely chip in a few paltry dollars.
You could probably add a zero to that if they said the general public's help is necessary to rebuild and started a GoFundMe. It'd be the biggest GoFundMe campaign of all time by a huge margin. This cathedral is that special in the eyes of many. (I'd probably throw in 100 bucks myself and I'm neither wealthy nor Catholic.) But I don't expect such a campaign will be necessary.
 
Oct 27, 2017
302
I'm seeing people on facebook posting older articles (couple of months old) saying that there were hundreds of cases of arson and vandalism on catholic churches in the past years in France, is there any truth to this? I dont want to link to these articles since i'm not sure how legitimate they are, the sites seem kinda sketchy
Alt-right bullshit. Don't believe that crap.
 
Dec 24, 2017
6,365
This is probably a dumb question, but was there no sprinkler system in there? I understand they wanted to keep it as original as possible, and that the fire likely started where there may not have been one anyways, and that of course there are areas with artwork they wouldn't want to get soaked, but it could have maybe helped a bit?
 
Oct 27, 2017
557
Very sad and tragic but at least there seem to be no casualties and it was not totally destroyed.

I'm glad for sure I managed to visit Paris early January and see it though, been wanting to since I was a kid.
 
Nov 27, 2017
4,653
This is probably a dumb question, but was there no sprinkler system in there? I understand they wanted to keep it as original as possible, and that the fire likely started where there may not have been one anyways, and that of course there are areas with artwork they wouldn't want to get soaked, but it could have maybe helped a bit?
Retrofitting an older let alone ancient building with a modern fire prevention system is difficult(and even then is unlikely to be in the roof, the most effected area) its have to be exterior and nobody wants giant water pipes going up the wall in public areas. Any building over 75 years old is going to be hard to setup and usually gets grandfathered past modern prevention systems since with most of them being made out of wood their level of flamibility makes it unlikely a water based system would be able to stop it. If it catches on fire a decent bit that old wood is going up in smoke real quick(for ref I did a repair project on a 1935 single screen theater that was mostly wood and plaster. A water sprinkler system would be next to impossible to install and would have been taken out by the time it started if a fire started in the roof or walls)
 
Dec 24, 2017
6,365
Retrofitting an older let alone ancient building with a modern fire prevention system is difficult(and even then is unlikely to be in the roof, the most effected area) its have to be exterior and nobody wants giant water pipes going up the wall in public areas. Any building over 75 years old is going to be hard to setup and usually gets grandfathered past modern prevention systems since with most of them being made out of wood their level of flamibility makes it unlikely a water based system would be able to stop it. If it catches on fire a decent bit that old wood is going up in smoke real quick(for ref I did a repair project on a 1935 single screen theater that was mostly wood and plaster. A water sprinkler system would be next to impossible to install and would have been taken out by the time it started if a fire started in the roof or walls)
I just figured it's such an important building that it would be a priority, expense be damned, but you make good points about the efficacy of such a system. Thank you for the thoughtful response!
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,161
This is probably a dumb question, but was there no sprinkler system in there? I understand they wanted to keep it as original as possible, and that the fire likely started where there may not have been one anyways, and that of course there are areas with artwork they wouldn't want to get soaked, but it could have maybe helped a bit?
The building was under renovation, and fire burns up. The portion that burned appears to be flammable structure. A sprinkled system would not be effective in this instance, they are now effective against occupant fire, not structural fire.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,136
All things considered, the damage is far less than what I feared. Don't get me wrong. The damage is extensive. But the concrete structure still stands. The concrete vault prevented the much of the fire from getting to the lower floors and it withstood the collapse of the wooden roof and spire for the most part. I wouldn't be surprised for the first mass to take place by next Easter. In fact, I expect the French government to make this a national goal. There of course will be limits and restrictions for years and it may take a decade to repair everything. But we could have completely lost a world treasure today but that looks to have been avoided and Notre Dame is still standing.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,130
I’m seriously so happy that it looks like a lot has been saved. I started crying when those drone images showed up.

I love Notre Dame. I had an intense affair with it when I was in Paris in 2014. I went to walk by it every day. Just beautiful and fascinating.



I didn’t take the best pictures. But it’s beautiful. Thank you to the firefighters who saved what they could.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,917
Connecticut
I'll say what I said to my friend earlier today. I can't believe the burning of a church has me so upset.

On a more serious note, most importantly it looks like no lives were lost. Coming in at a close second I am thrilled (and shocked) to hear they were able to save a lot or most of the artifacts inside. Kinda sad that I am only now learning a lot about this cathedral because of this fire.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,209
Restoration of St. Patricks Cathederal in NYC was over 175 million dollars and that was with no major structural damage etc. Realistically it could be half a billion or more for Notre Dame
Doesn’t that one still sit unfinished to this day?

Edit: nvm, was thinking of St John the Divine
 

TokyoJoe

Banned
Member
Oct 28, 2017
757
This magnificent and incredible building has outlived pretty much everyone and anything and even the nazi's only for modern society to fuck up. Once investigators discover it was pure recklessness that has brought us here, almost robbing generations and countless of generations that come after us. There should be consequences.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,352
France
I'm sorry I can't translate it right now because it's 6:30am, I'm too tired and some terms are too technical, but someone on Twitter posted a message they got from their dad who studied the cases of other fires in historic landmarks and his explanation as to what may have happened seems pretty reasonable and in line with fires who started in recent times in other cathedrals, castles and old hotels. Other french speaking people here may find it interesting, until we have more information:

Basically he explains how a fire can take a while to start, way after the workers have left (sometimes hours), and why it is so sudden and fierce when it does.
 

Seb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
182
Toulouse
I’m seriously so happy that it looks like a lot has been saved. I started crying when those drone images showed up.

I love Notre Dame. I had an intense affair with it when I was in Paris in 2014. I went to walk by it every day. Just beautiful and fascinating.



I didn’t take the best pictures. But it’s beautiful. Thank you to the firefighters who saved what they could.
Oh, they said on the news that the bronze statues were removed earlier for the restoration without further explanation. I understand what they meant now, that's a relief. Thanks for the picture.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,770
It will be interesting to see if they will enact the rebuilding plan that was put in place almost 200 years ago. The Wood is practically priceless as far as availability. But after the French Revolution and the damage done when they fixed the Cathedral they immediately after planted replacement Oaks in the event they would ever be needed in the future from another disaster at the Cathedral.
 
Jul 18, 2018
1,012
It's so odd how normalized it is to get news from Twitter.
Before it was just copy and paste from message boards, and news websites. Reddit was an extension to that. Now Twitter is an extension to all of that. It's all about ease of access, nothing as really changed about the source. Just accessibility
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,148
Alt-right bullshit. Don't believe that crap.
I'm sure they are exaggerating the numbers depending upon who is posting that stuff. I'm not sure I'd say it's complete bullshit though. I mean, I don't consider Newsweek to be a source of alt-right propaganda.

https://www.newsweek.com/spate-atta...-sees-altars-desecrated-christ-statue-1370800

I don't believe this has anything to with what happened just now though. I do think it was an accident related to the renovation.
 
Nov 5, 2017
2,145
Firefighters did an amazing job getting this fire under control and saving a large part of the building. The damage is not as bad as I feared when I was watching it last night. Hope the firefighter who got badly hurt makes a full recovery.

If they are going to start asking for donations I'll happily pay what I can to help the rebuild efforts.