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Fire breaks out at Notre Dame cathedral, developing situation [Update: major structural collapse - Art and other Assets Saved] (See Staff Post)

Nov 8, 2017
4,187
UK
So this in interesting:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1117895531563372544.html

Apparently not only did the PFD have a plan for what to do in case Notre Dame burnt, but they(not PFD) actually planted a bunch of oaks 160 years ago to replace the roof beams, should the need arise.
Brilliant link, thank you for sharing. Amazing planning and good that the Versailles Oaks are ready to fulfill their purpose as replacement for the beams. Incredible.

This makes me wonder what planning there is for other historic structures in the event of fires or disasters.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
2,996
So this in interesting:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1117895531563372544.html

Apparently not only did the PFD have a plan for what to do in case Notre Dame burnt, but they(not PFD) actually planted a bunch of oaks 160 years ago to replace the roof beams, should the need arise.

Wow, that's pretty incredible. Though part of me was thinking that they'd rebuild the roof with a material that was a tad less...flammable, in order to prevent the possibility of this ever happening again - or at least on this scale. I suppose they could always rebuild it with those oaks and then just outfit it with a state of the art fire detection/sprinkler system or something. The reconstruction process for this whole thing is going to be very interesting to watch.
 
Wow, that's pretty incredible. Though part of me was thinking that they'd rebuild the roof with a material that was a tad less...flammable, in order to prevent the possibility of this ever happening again - or at least on this scale. I suppose they could always rebuild it with those oaks and then just outfit it with a state of the art fire detection/sprinkler system or something. The reconstruction process for this whole thing is going to be very interesting to watch.
There are chemical treatments for wood nowadays they could only dream about back when those trees were planted; they could be made much more fire resistant then bare wood.
 
Wow, that's pretty incredible. Though part of me was thinking that they'd rebuild the roof with a material that was a tad less...flammable, in order to prevent the possibility of this ever happening again - or at least on this scale. I suppose they could always rebuild it with those oaks and then just outfit it with a state of the art fire detection/sprinkler system or something. The reconstruction process for this whole thing is going to be very interesting to watch.
Wood is actually pretty good at maintaining structural integrity in case of fire. Better than steel at any rate.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,972
Brilliant link, thank you for sharing. Amazing planning and the Versailles Oaks look stunning in all their glory, ready to fulfill their purpose as replacement for the beams. Incredible.



Even a priest firefighter to grab the crown of thorns! So thankful that they have such measures in place and enacted them well.

This makes me wonder what planning there is for other historic structures in the event of fires or disasters.
I'm not sure how I feel about this. I'd rather they used some other materials than 700+ tonnes of wood, plus it'd be a shame to get rid of those oaks. Even if they were planted for this purpose 160 years ago back then getting rid of trees was not thought of to be as it's thought of today.

Notre Dame would always remain the beautiful structure it is even with modern materials and over time that will become part of history along with the fire incident, but getting rid of these trees means we won't get this beautiful place to look like this again for another 160 years or so provided they do a replantation.
 
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This could be the most striking image not related to war or loss of life I’ve ever seen.

And no, with this I’m not implying that we should thank God instead of the firemen, or that the cross being safe is some kind of divine omen. But I’d forgive people for thinking or saying that, even if achievements such as Notre-Dame are as much a tribute to the ingenuity of mankind as they are to the God in whose name these monuments were made. I don’t really care what you believe in, we should all be happy that such a piece of history hasn’t been completely wiped out, and with no casualties (except for that injured firefighter? Are there news about them?).

I don’t remember ever being in Notre-Dame. Maybe my parents took me in my only visit to Paris, when I was 3 years old. And now I will never see it as it was until yesterday.
 
A shame I never visited in when it was still intact. There are such few news these days that leave you being shocked and in disbelief - you've heard it all. This is something I'll never forget though when I checked my smartphone yesterday. I will definitely donate some money to rebuild this beautiful cathedral.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,989
Lancashire
Incredible that almost all of the central structure was saved. These medieval cathedrals are really amazing works of engineering and art

Had to think of this passage from A Clash of Kings (2. GoT book, Spoilers I guess)

Wisps of smoke still rose into the grey sky, but no more than might have risen from Winterfell’s chimneys on a cold autumn afternoon. Soot stains marked some of the arrow loops, and here and there a crack or a missing merlon could be seen in the curtain wall, but it seemed little enough from this distance. Beyond, the tops of the keeps and towers still stood as they had for hundreds of years, and it was hard to tell that the castle had been sacked and burned at all. The stone is strong, Bran told himself, the roots of the trees go deep, and under the ground the Kings of Winter sit their thrones. So long as those remained, Winterfell remained. It was not dead, just broken.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,613
Brilliant link, thank you for sharing. Amazing planning and the Versailles Oaks look stunning in all their glory, ready to fulfill their purpose as replacement for the beams. Incredible.



Even a priest firefighter to grab the crown of thorns! So thankful that they have such measures in place and enacted them well.

This makes me wonder what planning there is for other historic structures in the event of fires or disasters.
nah. Just leave the trees there.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,311
France
So this in interesting:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1117895531563372544.html

Apparently not only did the PFD have a plan for what to do in case Notre Dame burnt, but they(not PFD) actually planted a bunch of oaks 160 years ago to replace the roof beams, should the need arise.
Brilliant link, thank you for sharing. Amazing planning and the Versailles Oaks look stunning in all their glory, ready to fulfill their purpose as replacement for the beams. Incredible.



Even a priest firefighter to grab the crown of thorns! So thankful that they have such measures in place and enacted them well.

This makes me wonder what planning there is for other historic structures in the event of fires or disasters.
I'm not sure how I feel about this. I'd rather they used some other materials than 700+ tonnes of wood, plus it'd be a shame to get rid of those oaks. Even if they were planted for this purpose 160 years ago back then getting rid of trees was not thought of to be as it's thought of today.

Notre Dame would always remain the beautiful structure it is even with modern materials and over time that will become part of history along with the fire incident, but getting rid of these trees means we won't get this beautiful place to look like this again for another 160 years or so provided they do a replantation.
Thank you. I sent that to my mum who's devastated.

E: Oh wow the window survived. Amazing news!
Did some digging and that twitter thread is bullshit. There aren't any other source for this except this rando on twitter who had no following before.
I mean... those are not even oaks on the pic... :|
Sorry to disappoint but yeah, what has been lost in the fire cannot be replaced. He says in the twitter thread "The steeple and the beams supporting it are 160 years old, and oaks for new beams awaits at Versailles, the grown replacements for oaks cut to rebuild after the revolution.
Versailles oaks. They're ready."

Yeah cool dramatic effect... the beams that burned were from oaks cut 850 years ago. And there were no replacements oaks grown specifically for this in Versailles. What he's showing looks more like plane trees.

What he's talking about sounds more like this story:
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/oak-beams-new-college-oxford
 
Nov 4, 2018
776
Sooo some few things about this whole thing

First of all to anyone wondering if we could use something else than oak trees to rebuild the roof , sadly no the way Notre Dame was built relied on having a roof carpentry known as a Gothic Calister Roof , and need to be of a certain weight to weigh down on the structure in a certain way , and oak beams is the only sweet spot we can achieve unfortunately . Soo the Versailles trees and other oak trees will have to fuel that renovation . (also Nikus yes the picture is not showing oak because that dufus doesn't even know that it is in Versailles the city that tree were planted not at the palace but there is a reserve indeed that was planted not specifically for Notre Dame mind you but we were in need of wood for renovation at the time of planting and those trees in the outskirts of Versailles does belong to the nation for construction purposes indeed so he has blown it out of proportions but he is technically not completly incorrect)

Secondly and this is the most important please don't ask for the Vatican to foot the bill.

Why ? Simply put in France in virtue of our laws of separation of church and state any place of worship that is older than 50 years are placed under the ownership of the institutions and under the responsibility of the government in return for loss of control over their own temples the nation engages itself to foot the bill to maintain the place clean safe repaired and restored for the generations to come .
Sadly over the recent years both the left and the right have not been honoring that part of the deal with flying colors and only begrudgingly and constant fights between the Vatican and the governement for Catholic landmarks , fights between The Council of French Protestants and the government and their landmarks , the Council of French Muslims and their landmarks have happened and continues to happen .

Of course no one will turn down donations to help foot the bill we're not saying that volunteering supplementary money is a bad move. But please bear in mind that in France who foots the bill for places of worship renovations should by law be the government through taxes in no uncertain terms in the article 13 of the laws of 1905 on separation of Church and State .
This is a tremendous constant hot button issue so as a French man I would appreciate if mods could Redcrayon or any mod really make my post a threadmark to remind people that who should foot the bill is an insanely complicated issue that is cause for controversy in France .
And with Macron lately being all out about lowering our taxes , him reaching out to the "Fondation du Patrimoine" (a foundation for volunteer donations to help renovate our landmarks ) is already making everyone mad enough as it is .

Renovating a Gothic Catherdral like Notre Dame isn't a "sexy selling point" for politicians because you can't take any shortcut it's a really long haul plan you put in motion and you won't see that work being done before re-election time , in fact the work will be finished by the time you can't be elected anymore.
And that's why our politicians have been dragging their feet for so long regardless of party for both the gothic cathedrals , the old Hugenot temples and anglican temples in Northern France (again complicated architecture and you can't take any shortcut to accelerate the renovation you're stuck with the old techniques no matter what ) and even for the five great Mosques that are old enough to be under our collective responsabilty but also have very complex architecture and again no shortcut can be taken.

French speaking twitter this morning is already ablaze (yes pun intended) with both right wingers and left wingers citizen yelling at our politicians to review the budget to account for the renovation and calling for them to finally stop dragging their feet enough as it is so please don't add fuel to that fire pretty please.

Respectfully an atheist french citizens who still values religious architecture and its beauty and wants nothing more than seeing those landmarks appear to the public in their full glory .

Hope you guys at Era all understand and sorry for that long ass post
 
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Oct 29, 2017
232
When even Fox News tells you to shut the fuck up...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Karsenty
It is even more beautiful than that.
Apparently:
- The guy has never won in a single election, and
- He was found guilty in a court of justice of libel and conspiracy over five years ago.

So props to Fox News for choosing to interview that guy in particular, and label him an “elected official” even.
That requires a special kind of talent too.