-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Fire Emblem Community | Anime Game Of Thrones
- Thread starter Shun
- Start date
I'm having a hard time going back to awakening. While Awakening a major jump up in presentation, Echoes blows it away.
GBA is still the visual and usability peak of the series imo
FE6 did bows okay too
I hope not. I feel like the fact that the game got all kinds of issues and flak from the split they wont try again. Plus, getting a story to fit that scheme again and from now on would probably be a bit hard. I vaguely remember the devs saying a few things about not being happy with the story because of the split but maybe bias is blurring my memory.
They might go for it because they might make a crud ton of money, but I don't think 2+ games will become the norm.
I think it comes down to whether or not the increased sales/revenue were worth the effort of having to build 3 separate campaigns. Honestly, I really hope it was a one time thing. That kind of effort is better spent making a more polished, bigger campaign in a single package than on chopping the game in 3 parts.
That's a difficult question to answer, specially with our current data. AFAIK, Fates combined sold less than Awakening. However, we don't know how they compare in terms of budget (Fates had the advantage of re-using Awakening's engine) or how digital sales/DLC compare, specially with the whole "alt Paths as DLC route". If this data is available and I just missed, I'd love to know. So in the end, is very hard to figure if Fates' split model ended up being successful.
If I had to guess, I'd say they'll go back to release games in singles. If Fates' model was more successful to them, it sure isn't a day and night difference. And most likely they had to stretch a lot of the staff thin (specially writters). They may even have burned a bridge with the anime writer they asked to help with Fates' story too. Developing a new engine and HD assets for a dual release would also escalate budget quite significantly most likely. I think it's a safer choice all around.
Yeah, I don't see them doing a split-game route again, at least not for the premiere FE: Switch. As was said, Fates had the advantage of building off of Awakening's engine, which is a luxury FE: Switch lacks.
Building FE: Switch's presumably more realistic graphics engine is probably a taxing effort on its own, technically and creatively, especially considering IS's record with console FE games.
A split-PoV I could see, though, ala Echoes. That would be neat.
(Random thought: if/when they ever remake FE8, it would be really cool if they fleshed out the route splitting, and had us control Ephraim and Eirika's armies simultaneously, like Echoes. Obviously, that would require a fair amount of plot changes, and additional characters, but it's fun to think about.)
Building FE: Switch's presumably more realistic graphics engine is probably a taxing effort on its own, technically and creatively, especially considering IS's record with console FE games.
A split-PoV I could see, though, ala Echoes. That would be neat.
(Random thought: if/when they ever remake FE8, it would be really cool if they fleshed out the route splitting, and had us control Ephraim and Eirika's armies simultaneously, like Echoes. Obviously, that would require a fair amount of plot changes, and additional characters, but it's fun to think about.)
Echoes made me realize we'll probably never get another single-gender protagonist. I felt like remaking echoes was a way for them to make a game but still have both a Male and Female protagonist. I think it's either going to be that or avatar based moving forward (and really, I have no reason to believe they'll get rid of the avatar since the avatar ends up being the most popular character in every game)
I don't mind this, but please make the avatar look cooler in future games, or give us better clothing options. Robin and Corrin were flat out bad designs in my opinion. Frumpy hobo robes? Barefoot armor jumpsuits? Gross.
I don't mind this, but please make the avatar look cooler in future games, or give us better clothing options. Robin and Corrin were flat out bad designs in my opinion. Frumpy hobo robes? Barefoot armor jumpsuits? Gross.
They will probably never be one weapon either. Need to have the player need to use magic somehow. Or else there is no negative for choosing Magic as your bane stat since everyone will be an avatar from now on.
I like male Robin and female Corrin's design (prefer female Kana's armor still). I'm indifferent to female Robin and dislike Male Corrin. More than a better design, I'd like to be able to change more of it. In FE3's remake you had freedom about which class you started at, and you initial attire changed based on your base class. Wish I could change my attire in Conquest (and not just the in-game model!)
Speaking of that, I doubt we'll see 2D portraits return in FE:Switch. I'm guessing the HD in-game models will be sufficient to show modern cutscenes instead of 2D portraits with dialogue boxes. In that case, I doubt we should worry about the MC's design, as it'll likely be easily changed by changing classes.
Speaking of that, I doubt we'll see 2D portraits return in FE:Switch. I'm guessing the HD in-game models will be sufficient to show modern cutscenes instead of 2D portraits with dialogue boxes. In that case, I doubt we should worry about the MC's design, as it'll likely be easily changed by changing classes.
I don't mind them being a blank state skill/weapon wise. Corrin still got the Yato, so they can still have a "flagship" weapon.
Personally, I think there's something lost when you let people make a character whatever they want it to be. There's something in my brain that wants there to be a single narrative to things, but I realize that's not what most people want out of games these days.
Personally, I think there's something lost when you let people make a character whatever they want it to be. There's something in my brain that wants there to be a single narrative to things, but I realize that's not what most people want out of games these days.
I have to say, I hope we move away from avatars. Only FE12's has been handled remotely well, to me. Awakening and Fates both had serious problems 1) making everyone playersexual and player-centric, and 2) making the avatar character a vanilla gary stu/mary sue archetype.
Would rather they stick with the traditional approach of having lords of multiple genders. It allows for stronger, more interesting characters, with more organic relationships. Customizable, blank-slate avatars just work better in games where you can choose your own adventure/personality, in my experience. Otherwise, you're just left with something that... has no personality (Corrin, Robin).
(It is past time we had another starting lord in a new game be female, IMO.)
Who knows, though. If they give us a well done avatar in FE: Switch, I'll gladly reconsider my position.
Would rather they stick with the traditional approach of having lords of multiple genders. It allows for stronger, more interesting characters, with more organic relationships. Customizable, blank-slate avatars just work better in games where you can choose your own adventure/personality, in my experience. Otherwise, you're just left with something that... has no personality (Corrin, Robin).
(It is past time we had another starting lord in a new game be female, IMO.)
Who knows, though. If they give us a well done avatar in FE: Switch, I'll gladly reconsider my position.
Having a flagship weapon would be hard if a MC does not have a pre-defined Weapon profficency. Imagine if the flagship weapon was a Sword, yet a player chose to go with an Archer or a Berserker the whole game. I do think having a pre-defined class and a unique skill (Ignis/Dragon Fang) is a good thing, as long as we can change classes. I like Fates' approach, were you create a "Lord", yet can choose any Alt Class you'd like (plus Friend/Partner Seals being a thing)
To be fair, most protags are basically Mary Sues. There's a case that Alm is basically an ultra marry sue since literally everything falls into his lap. (I still found him pretty endearing)
Corrin wasn't super bland, they were basically a fully written character. The only control the player had was on looks and gender, which I don't think is a huge deal. It's just that the story of that game and making them so loved by two random families and having to pick between and fight with people that we, as players, have zero emotional connection to, was stupid as hell.
Corrin wasn't super bland, they were basically a fully written character. The only control the player had was on looks and gender, which I don't think is a huge deal. It's just that the story of that game and making them so loved by two random families and having to pick between and fight with people that we, as players, have zero emotional connection to, was stupid as hell.
It's going to be Avatars from here on out. Guaranteed
Being able to marry anyone and everyone and being able to have the gary-stu and all the class customization is EXACTLY what they want, and I imagine what the fans (or at least the casuals) want. I wouldn't be surprised by more customization or better writing, but I wouldn't expect another concrete character like Alm/Roy/Marth/Eliwood/etc for quite some time outside of Echoes remakes.
Being able to marry anyone and everyone and being able to have the gary-stu and all the class customization is EXACTLY what they want, and I imagine what the fans (or at least the casuals) want. I wouldn't be surprised by more customization or better writing, but I wouldn't expect another concrete character like Alm/Roy/Marth/Eliwood/etc for quite some time outside of Echoes remakes.
GBA is still fine for me.
Older than those though, and I start to miss some things like the combat data before a fight saying if a unit will double or not. It's not a big deal, but having to compare battle speed is a bit inelegant.
I'm thinking they wont. It's hard to imagine that Fates didn't have a lot of issues behind the scenes when looking at the finished product, scaling things back would be wise if so, especially since they will have to work with a new engine.
But maybe I'm wrong and they got enough out of the split game idea and want to go with it again.
Hahahahahahaha
As much as I love FE12 (and I really like that game), Kris was not handled well.
Agreed on Avatars most likely being a lock from now on. Avatars could even be shoehorned into remakes (Gaiden and FE4 being likely exceptions due to Story reasons). The whole Avatar system was introduced in a remake. There is also Mark in FE7 that could easily be upgraded to the current Avatar system and even be added to FE6 with little to no changes needed.
Seriously. Just look at the popularity of Tharja. The power of waifus and husbandos is going to keep avatars in business for a long time.
ugh. I keep trying to push this thought out of my head. I've heard Kris fucks with the story of FE as is, and I really don't want to see them forced into other stories taht have already been told without them. Mark is the only one I can almost understand, but please not anything else, including FE6 which sort of relies on Roy being an amateur.
I honestly don't think there's a difference between the avatars in Awakening/Fates and lords of past games. They're all fairly bland and have everything revolve around them, Ike is the closest they ever got to breaking that mold.
There are bigger problems with the stories in Awakening and Fates and they have absolutely nothing to do with being able to change the sex, looks, and name of the main character.
There are bigger problems with the stories in Awakening and Fates and they have absolutely nothing to do with being able to change the sex, looks, and name of the main character.
"Remotely well." Kris definitely wasn't good, but I enjoyed their inclusion more because they were a tertiary character, rather than essentially replacing the main lord in-story.
As for Mark (who could definitely be upgraded to a playable avatar in a future remake), that's the type of avatar I prefer -- basically just an excuse for the main lord to consult you, but retain their own unique story, background, and personality.
Hopefully IS can prove me wrong if they decide to go with another story-centric avatar, but so far, the games that have included them have also had very weak stories/characters, by making everyone and everything revolve around you, the blank slate.
That's why Awakening had neither elderly characters nor pre-established couples, because everyone was created with the intent of being playersexual. Fates isn't much better, in that regard, either.
I'd prefer a shorter list of supports for each character, too -- ones that make sense and are based in something, and are organic like Echoes', where you could really sense the friendship and bonds between characters.
Can't say anything about Kris since that game never came over here, and I agree they are not needed in stories where they weren't before. But then again, I don't think their inclussion could ruin most of the stories in FE as long as the Avatar is kept more or less in the sidelines instead of trying to make them the center of the game's plot (except maybe FE4. Haven't played PoR so I can't comment on that one either). FE6? Mark comes back after travelling the world to see his old friends when he finds Roy and co. Even if Roy himself is an amateur he has veteran companions right from the prologue (cof Marcus cof) so I don't see the problem. FE8? a royal strategist sees Seth and Eirika fleeing and goes after them.
Introducing Marriage would be worse IMO
The existence of the avatar is not what prevented that from happening.
That's just poor story decisions on IS's part.
Nothing is stopping a game from being made that has an avatar and pre-established couples.
Honestly, the consensus is that Kris is the worst avatar in that he/she had a drastic effect on an already finished plot.
Robin is probably the least offensive.
Ayup, Awakening has a narrative and pacing issue.
I will say I think Hector and Ephraim did change up the lords a bit as did Sigurd. But I think its because all three aren't the "true" lords of the game which are milquetoast.
Kris is definitely not a tertiary character in FE12. Kris is central to the game's plot, and is much worse for it. The game is consistently sucking up to Kris, making him/her seem like the greatest person on the planet. 90% of the support conversations happen between Kris and another character. Kris is so perfect, that all of the women in the army fall for male Kris (including Catria, of all people), and a large chunk of the male cast falls for female Kris. And Kris is the only person who gets to see Sirius without the mask.
Kris also impacted the way characters are portrayed in the game. In FE11, Marth is shown as a bright, capable leader. But in FE12, Marth is totally unsure of himself, always second-guessing himself, and every time he does that, it's up to Kris to comfort him and tell him that no, he's a great prince. Not even background characters are immune to this. In FE3 Chapter 8, Jagen tells Marth to get on the boat to Khadein, saying that the rest of the army will be able to escape and meet him there. In FE12 Chapter 8, this same conversation happens, except that instead of saying that the army can escape, Jagen says that Kris can hold off the enemy and help the army escape. There are numerous examples of Marth or Jagen or other characters coming up with strategies in FE3, but in FE12, it's always Kris' idea. Kris is the bestest warrior on the planet. No one else can have the spotlight.
The game constantly fellates Kris, even more than Awakening/Birthright with Robin/Corrin (whom I also dislike).
If they make split games again they should just go with completely independent stories that happen to share the same setting (so justifying shared classes and locations).
Above any storytelling issues, something that disappointed me about Fates' story was how blatant they were with their "wink/nod, there's another campaign you should totally buy!". The endings of Birthright and Conquest have a bunch of lines that are only there to remind the player that they don't know everything and that the story is inconclusive rather than just focusing on giving a satisfying ending.
Kris has no effect on the main plot though. He doesn't have any story role in the existing chapters. He's just there for character interactions, with his contributions always happening in the new chapters that aren't tied directly into the main plot. He does have a lot of presence though in spite of that, since he gets interactions with everyone and even supports with almost everyone, while the other characters are stuck with an extremely limited list of optional base conversations that don't involve Kris.
Edit: Yeah, some strategies ended up credited to Kris too like mentioned above, but I don't think it happens that often. Kris is still extremely passive in the main plot even with those small additions.
Last edited:
i mistakenly posted in the fire emblem android game thread, but I meant to post here:
can I make some cousins fuck in the new one
can I make some cousins fuck in the new one
True, but like you said, they're not really the main lord of their games, so I wasn't thinking of them in that comment.
Unfortunately the Avatar is here to stay. Children as well. I'd prefer both to be gone but I can live with that. Awakening could've been a great game had it had better map variety, balance and writing. Conquest improved the variety and balance. The trainwreck it calls a story is simply the logical conclusion from hiring a main writer who hasn't had any experience in writing games and no knowledge of Fire Emblem's relatively restrictive narrative framework. The game's Iwata Asks was really eye-opening when it comes to the problems the team had in adapting the crazyness that came from Kibayashi.
I really hope the next game goes the Genealogy-route with a clear timeskip and a Second-Gen Protagonist that is only the marginally editable Offspring of the Avatar. (And therefore able to become an actual character with a personality and arc for him/herself rather than the bland unchanging Self-Inserted Demigod we've seen.)
I really hope the next game goes the Genealogy-route with a clear timeskip and a Second-Gen Protagonist that is only the marginally editable Offspring of the Avatar. (And therefore able to become an actual character with a personality and arc for him/herself rather than the bland unchanging Self-Inserted Demigod we've seen.)
Avatars ain't too bad. I just rather they not be so important to the main plot.
Have them like Saber from Echoes. Is somewhat relevant(very slightly) in the story and has the protagonist back.
Have them like Saber from Echoes. Is somewhat relevant(very slightly) in the story and has the protagonist back.
I may be wrong in this, please correct me if this is the case, but I was under the impression the anime writer only gave them a framework of the story and the team was free to do with it what they pleased. And that this could've happened before the decision to split the game in 2 was made, thus forcing the team to fill up many gaps with random and rushed stuff.
Avatars are fine.
Just make them look cooler, and maybe don't let everyone have sex with them? I dunno. They'll never let that one go.
Again, I don't think the actual personality or character of the Avatar in fates was offensive. They were, for all intents and purposes, a lord like any other. I just don't like all the player pandering, and I think it hit a real high point with having 8 royals fawning over you. Just a weird plot.
Just make them look cooler, and maybe don't let everyone have sex with them? I dunno. They'll never let that one go.
Again, I don't think the actual personality or character of the Avatar in fates was offensive. They were, for all intents and purposes, a lord like any other. I just don't like all the player pandering, and I think it hit a real high point with having 8 royals fawning over you. Just a weird plot.
I'd really prefer if Avatars weren't going to return, probably my least favorite feature in Awakening/Fates after everyone being able to support everyone of the opposite sex. It would be cool and good if they went back on those things.
Going for an FE4-esque timeskip would be cool but I'd probably rather just get a normal single-generation FE again. Bring back units with familial relations! We got like, what, Chrom and Lissa in Awakening and then the royal siblings and Kaze/Saizo in Fate but I don't remember any others. I like having siblings and grandparents and all that!
Going for an FE4-esque timeskip would be cool but I'd probably rather just get a normal single-generation FE again. Bring back units with familial relations! We got like, what, Chrom and Lissa in Awakening and then the royal siblings and Kaze/Saizo in Fate but I don't remember any others. I like having siblings and grandparents and all that!
Children were part of Awakening's and Fates's new mechanics for extended character building compared to past FE games, alongside the tweaked class change and skill systems, but it feels like IS stepped back on that at some point during Fates itself. They made it easier for them to immediately become decent units, but harder to make them actually top tier. Fates' DLC also didn't add playable content to incentive the players to train extremely strong characters way above the original end game, unlike in Awakening. Part of that might be due to Heroes existing where building up characters is the whole focus of the game.
I'm not sure if they'd outright drop them though, especially if they can't come up with something promising to replace them as a feature. Echoes isn't even a million seller, so I can't see them scaling back things to that level in a new title.
That's fairly dismissive. They're absolutely "true lords," because those games, especially FE7, are ensembles.
Lyndis is the "true lord" of the prologue, the first lord one encounters in that game. Although she's sidelined a bit later, due to conservation of dialogue, she still has a notable personality that isn't "milquetoast," being equal parts sentimental and temperamental (hence her clashes with Hector).
Hector's mode is considered the definitive version of the main story, because most of the hidden backstory is relegated to it, and it's the most difficult.
Even Eliwood, while fairly generic, has more believable emotional reactions in the game, to me, than Corrin. I genuinely cared about his struggle to find his father, and the aftermath thereof. FE7 in general was good about establishing emotional connections with all three lords during their respective journeys, and how they all dealt with loss.
Never cared much for Ephraim and Eirika personally, but there's no question that they're equals in terms of plot importance.
Kris is absolutely a tertiary character to the main plot. Their personal storyline is handled in the gaiden chapters, they have almost zero bearing on the main storyline.
Yes, Kris acts as a self-insert for the player in a pre-established game (hence being the avatar), and thus absorbed some minor dialogue from other characters to warrant their place, and yes, that had minor effects on Marth's personality, Kris was not integral to the main plot.
As for the game's supports, which I didn't like the structure of, did the original game even have supports? Considering the game wasn't released in the US, and Fire Emblem was on the verge of being discontinued, I'll chalk the limited supports to lack of budget and source material.
You're exaggerating slightly. Kris is far less impactful than, say, Robin, and less is attributed to them than Mark.
Regardless, this is my entire point about why avatars are generally a bad idea in Fire Emblem, because they do serve as a shallow self-insertion to "fellate" the player, and give them positive reinforcement. Unfortunately and more importantly, that also comes at the expense of other characters' storylines, at least so far.
This is exactly what I was getting at. While he (read: the player) is given a lot of dialogue with characters, and I'd much rather characters converse organically with each other (see: Echoes), Kris' overall impact on the main storyline is negligible compared to Robin or Corrin, who supplant the roles of main lord(s) in the story.
We're arguing semantics, though. I'd prefer neither form of avatar.
Kris is probably the main reason I like playing FE3 more than 12, that and FE1 being a part of it.
The constant unearned adoration he deserves from everyone, and the weakening of others in terms of personality and contributions is something I just find difficult to look past.
I still like the game a great deal, but Kris was just awful and dampened the overall experience.
The constant unearned adoration he deserves from everyone, and the weakening of others in terms of personality and contributions is something I just find difficult to look past.
I still like the game a great deal, but Kris was just awful and dampened the overall experience.
While i'm certain avatars are here to stay, I think children are a bit more iffy. Seems like they were much more disliked for Fates. The Awakening expys didnt help much. Plus, again, all the awkward story stuff and then needing to use all the resources and screwing with pacing.
Sidenote: I fucking hate Hector mode. Hiding content behind a hard mode that can ONLY be accessed if you want to play the same game twice. Lose your cartridge/data? welcome back to playing Eliwood again yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.
Sidenote: I fucking hate Hector mode. Hiding content behind a hard mode that can ONLY be accessed if you want to play the same game twice. Lose your cartridge/data? welcome back to playing Eliwood again yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.
I doubt it. There 's no way the team filled up any gaps, when they expected ten pages and got 500. Just sifting through that, trying to decide on any usable stuff must've been a nightmare.
At least Awakening's children had some semblance of cohesion with the narrative. Fates just took the mechanic and inserted it with an explanation so baffling, I'd rather just say "no explanation."
It really should've been a one-off mechanic, though. And supports / character relationships should be more in-line with Echoes going forward, IMO. Relationships that bud and grow realistically, and an ending in the post-game credits, rather than talking about your hobby 3x then getting married and knocked up.
Like, is that not more satisfying to people...? Reading a story of how characters grow together, and end up together because of the effort you put in (or something more tragic, but interesting, in some cases [Nino x Jaffar]), rather than having a marriage simulator with the thinnest veneer of bonding? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
P.S. Why not just emulate it, and import a save file if you need to unlock HHM?
Awakening had a great excuse for children. The story reason made sense and quite frankly it was a straight up cool. Plus it leaves a lot open for fan theories and stuff which I always love. It was great and totally worth it. But Fates was so lazy goddamn. . .
As for supports, SoV is great. Being fully voiced makes it even better because you really get the emotions.
In regards to Hector Mode that would mean piracy in my case and i'm not down with that. I've also been told it fucks with Lyn's units but that is a less pressing matter and my friends are usually wrong about FE stuff anyway. Plus I shouldn't need to do stuff like that anyway to get important story details and entire maps. . .
Hiding Hector Hard Mode makes sense tho, Fire Emblem just came to the market.
Normal mode was already providing a challenge.
Normal mode was already providing a challenge.