Fire Emblem Heroes & Animal Crossing: Pocket Camp will cease to exist in Belgium (microtransaction laws issue)

Nitpicker_Red · May 21, 2019

Here's a recap of the Belgian Paid Lootboxes "ambiguïty" in three parts:
1: Gambling is illegal in Belgium unless you get a license and get checked by regulators (check the odds and algorithms): https://www.gamingcommission.be/opencms/opencms/jhksweb_en/law/

In Belgium a ban on games of chance is in place. Since an absolute ban across the board once prompted the uncontrolled proliferation of illegal games of chance, the government decided to implement a policy aimed at channelling gambling activities by way of licences. To this end, the Gaming Commission was instituted by the Act of 7 May 1999 on games of chance, bets, gaming establishments and the protection of players. In a bid to appropriately guide and control the operation of games of chance, we award different types of licences.

2: Gambling is defined by "Game of Chance", which is a 3-parts definition that covers most gambling types: https://www.gamingcommission.be/opencms/opencms/jhksweb_en/games/

This is the legal definition of a game of chance: "Any game by which a stake of any kind is committed, the consequence of which is either loss of the stake by at least one of the players or a gain of any kind in favour of at least one of the players, or organisers of the game and in which chance is a factor, albeit ancillary, for the conduct of the game, determination of the winner or fixing of the gain".

The three elements stake, win or lose and chance must be cumulatively present if one is to speak of a game of chance. The definition of games of chance is very wide.

3: In a recent 25 pages report, the Game of Chance Comission recognised some Paid Lootboxes as Game of Chance, as well as some things that they found should be better legislated (usage of celebrities, chance manipulation etc.). But it also recognised that there is currently no legislation for Lootboxes, and no way to get a license either: https://www.gamingcommission.be/ope...zoeksrapport-loot-boxen-Engels-publicatie.pdf

For example, it is not important if a "skin" in Overwatch, FIFA 18 or C-S: GO is merely of aesthetic value. What is important is that players attach value to it and that this value is also emphasised by the game developers themselves.

Winning is not even a decisive criterion in the Belgian Gaming and Betting Act. The mere loss of a wager can suffice and can also be of any type. If a player pays a certain amount for the purchase of a loot box, then the player's loss will consist of the value of the wager minus the value of the obtained item. Therefore, even though developers and distributors maintain that the obtained items in loot boxes have no value, the amount of the wager will constitute an integral loss for the player and an integral win for the distributors and game developers.

The paid loot boxes in the examined games Overwatch, FIFA 18 and Counter-Strike: Global Offensive fit the description of a game of chance because all of the constitutive elements of gambling are present (game, wager, chance, win/loss). The loot box system in Star Wars Battlefront 2 prior to the official release of the game also fits this definition, but this is no longer the case today

The investigation clearly shows that the purchase of loot boxes by players in the examined video games is highly problematic, both in terms of the purchase as well as in terms of the techniques used to allow players to bet using loot boxes. The self-regulating classification system of video games does not offer the protection envisioned by the Gaming and Betting Act. In fact, there is no single systematic protection of consumers, minors or gambling addicts from gambling. More and more people, including young people, are confronted with gambling without realising it.

The examined games with paid loot boxes such as those that are currently being offered and operated in Belgium violate the Gaming and Betting Act and can be criminally prosecuted. From the legal-technical perspective, the loot boxes themselves do not fall under the definition of gambling, but they can teach young and vulnerable players gambling. Free loot boxes are also problematic if players are directed to paid loot boxes through free loot boxes.

Just as measures were undertaken with regard to Game of War in the past, the paid loot boxes must be removed from the video games in order to comply with the Belgian Gaming and Betting Act. If the video games are not revised in compliance with the Gaming and Betting Act, the active operators risk a prison sentence of up to five years and fines of up to EUR 800,000 for a first violation. These penalties can double if the violation was perpetrated against a person younger than 18.

They also threw in a bunch of recommendations to everyone:

The gaming industry's self-regulation does not (adequately) protect the player.

Recommendations [...]
With regard to the regulator: [...]

Update the Gaming Commission [with more power over video games prevention]

Specific permits must be developed for games of chance in video games.

Principal ban on minors purchasing games with paid loot boxes.

With regard to the granters of licenses such as the international football association FIFA and Disney:

Take into consideration quality standards if the licence is granted to a game developer (no illegal gambling, no promotion of match fixing, etc.).

With regard to game platforms that facilitate payments that can be used in video games:

The age requirements of the platform and the used video game must be the same. If a game is not approved for minors, they must also not be able to make any payments.

With regard to distributors and game developers (EA, etc.):

Clear indication of the chances of winning for the various item values.

Permit complete control of the random number generators used for the loot boxes by the Gaming Commission's Technical Assessments team.

Provision of the data of players and payments.

Introduction of a financial ceiling for the monetary amount that can be spent on loot boxes.

The presence of paid loot boxes may not impede or disadvantage a normal game without paid loot boxes.

A game symbol 'gambling' is needed (e.g.: "contains gambling")

The three games cited in the report stopped selling Lootboxes in Belgium (FIFA, Overwatch, Counter-Strike: Global Offensive).
(The fourth one, Star Wars Battlefront II, removed theirs earlier due to international outcry.)
But there is no practical sign of the Gaming Comission going out of their way to check more games: https://www.gamingcommission.be/opencms/opencms/jhksweb_en/gamingcommission/news/news_0061.html

The Gaming Commission has reached the conclusion that paying loot boxes are games of chance. If these are operated further, a criminal approach is indicated. Since the phenomenon goes farther than the 4 games analysed, the Gaming Commission is making a number of recommendations for both those responsible for the policy, the game manufacturers, the game platforms and the licensors such as FIFA.

The position seems to be waiting for the industry to auto-regulate based on the given recommendations.

Mobyduck · May 21, 2019

unicornKnight said:
If a lot of countries take the same stance then there will be no point having such games made.

The East? It's probably more profitable to makes these kinds of few and not release them in the west than trying a different model.

MatrixMan.exe · May 21, 2019

unicornKnight said:
Damn this is stupid, those law should affect only greedy mobile companies and EA. Nintendo have the morale advantage.

Is this a joke post?

Edit: It is. Phew.

Busaiku · May 21, 2019

Europe in general is pretty close to irrelevant for most mobile games, so expect more games to be removed/never come out there.
There is 0 reason for Japanese companies to change the model when 99% of games make 90% of their revenue in Japan alone.
Nintendo is actually like one of the few exceptions, but even then, Japan still accounts for 60 - 80%, with the US accounting for 15 - 30%, and the entire rest of the world accounting for 5 - 10%.

tadaima · May 21, 2019

LordKano said:
Hmm, I wonder if it's possible to change my region account to like France or something for FEH.

This is probably exactly what Nintendo expects most heavy users (paying customers) to do.

famikon · May 21, 2019

I wonder how this will comply with this – https://ec.europa.eu/commission/new...-your-online-content-across-eu-2018-mar-27_en (Digital Single Market)

From 1 April 2018 onwards, Europeans will be able to access the online content that they have subscribed to at home, wherever they are in the EU.

Bonejack · May 21, 2019

famikon said:
I wonder how this will comply with this – https://ec.europa.eu/commission/new...-your-online-content-across-eu-2018-mar-27_en (Digital Single Market)

Well, Belgians, who are at home in Belgium, can't access nor download the game at that certain date anymore. Also, it's not a subscription based game, you could play the whole game since launch until this very day without even connecting a Nintendo account to it.

Or in short: Doesn't apply here. Different situation.

Busaiku · May 21, 2019

7Z7 said:
And here are two more games to which Belgian players are deprived (not to mention future Nintendo games such as Mario Kart).

The problem is that little Belgium cannot change things on its own, so the only consequences of this law are to deprive Belgian players.

As if little Belgium was going to bend Multinationals. If the USA were to adopt this law, it would make a difference, it would be a larger market than Belgium, which would bring in almost nothing.

As a Belgian player, it annoys me to be deprived of more and more games.

The entire rest of the world can ban every mobile game for these practices and it would be irrelevant.
If Japan does not care, it doesn't matter, at all.

BassForever · May 21, 2019

Busaiku said:
The entire rest of the world can ban every mobile game for these practices and it would be irrelevant.
If Japan does not care, it doesn't matter, at all.

As long as the disease is quarantined to Japan only then it's a mission accomplished

Deleted member 5535 · May 21, 2019

FerozElMejor said:
Let's hope they put these laws on big markets like Germany and France, so Nintendo can't put microtransactions there and maybe, change their games.

KillstealWolf said:
Gonna be interesting to see what the Mario Kart World Tour monetisation model will be considering this.

They won't change their games for just one region. They and other companies only will change when it affects a major market.

Also, mtx is fine. Lootboxes are the ones seem as problem.

Busaiku said:
Europe in general is pretty close to irrelevant for most mobile games, so expect more games to be removed/never come out there.
There is 0 reason for Japanese companies to change the model when 99% of games make 90% of their revenue in Japan alone.
Nintendo is actually like one of the few exceptions, but even then, Japan still accounts for 60 - 80%, with the US accounting for 15 - 30%, and the entire rest of the world accounting for 5 - 10%.

This too. There's 0% chance of laws changing in Japan because the country already passed to a situation similar to what the west is now like in 6-7 years ago and those practices are largely accepted with gacha. It only will get something if kompu gacha goes back but no company will be idiot to do that after all that happened in 2012.

ggx2ac · May 21, 2019

unicornKnight said:
If a lot of countries take the same stance then there will be no point having such games made.

It has to be a significant country rather than a lot of countries.

Eg. If gacha was banned all throughout Europe this would have no effect on Nintendo when their mobile games make more money significantly from the US, Japan and other parts of Asia.

Gacha is not a big market in Europe.

Asuka3+1 · May 21, 2019

>Parent cant focus on their kids long enough for em not to run dry their credit cards
>so obviously the problem are the game emselves and have to be regulated/ banned
I swear to god

ZeoVGM · May 21, 2019

Raijinto said:
Huh.

That's certainly a thing. Would've preferred $60 games be reigned in over microtransactions first but this is a start.

This makes no sense. It's not remotely the same issue.

Kouriozan · May 21, 2019

If only the mobile market would have accepted Mario Run, sadly it proved Nintendo that market only make money with F2P and whale fishing / mini-games with ads every 20 seconds.

Deleted member 2791 · May 21, 2019

Asuka3+1 said:
>Parent cant focus on their kids long enough for em not to run dry their credit cards
>so obviously the problem are the game emselves and have to be regulated/ banned
I swear to god

No, the issue is addiction.

Raijinto · May 21, 2019

ZeoVGM said:
This makes no sense. It's not remotely the same issue.

Well it does to me. $60 pushing microtransactions are more egregious IMO compared to F2P mobile games where it kinda has to be that way. It's why Battlefront 2 made headlines worldwide whilst FEH is just another mobile game.

Asbsand · May 21, 2019

This is a good reason to me why I'm against legistlation against greedy practices. I don't want to make games unavailable due to law, i just want publishers to stop making games around monetization.

There's genuinely charming stuff in FE and AC on mobile. Now Belgium won't have any of that.

Deleted member 2791 · May 21, 2019

Asbsand said:
Now Belgium won't have any of that.

eeeeeeh you can just download an apk you know

Deleted member 50454 · May 21, 2019

Busaiku said:
Europe in general is pretty close to irrelevant for most mobile games, so expect more games to be removed/never come out there.

Great news.

RABicle · May 21, 2019

Nightbird said:
This would fail at Step 2 because step 1 would mean that all their waifu gacha games would cease to exist as well, thus making them even more anti-EU.

Just look at how part of the anime community reacted to the UN announcing that they would try to do more against loli porn for reference.

I myself support this. It's gonna inevitably mean that my DragonBall Dokkan Battle account will be in jeopardy in the future, but it's a small sacrifice for a good cause.

😧

I didn't know such things existed but you are correct.

Osahi · May 21, 2019

Asbsand said:
This is a good reason to me why I'm against legistlation against greedy practices. I don't want to make games unavailable due to law, i just want publishers to stop making games around monetization.

There's genuinely charming stuff in FE and AC on mobile. Now Belgium won't have any of that.

Publishers won't stop without legislation, as it's a business model that works great for them. The problem is a small country like Belgium (11 milion citizens) taking a stance isn't enough. Only when bigger markets en countries join forces publishers willbe forced to abandon these practices.

ZeoVGM · May 21, 2019

Raijinto said:
Well it does to me. $60 pushing microtransactions are more egregious IMO compared to F2P mobile games where it kinda has to be that way. It's why Battlefront 2 made headlines worldwide whilst FEH is just another mobile game.

You didn't specify "$60 with microtransactions" in your original post. You worded it as if your problem was simply $60 games existing and that being worse than microtransactions.

Though honestly, it doesn't matter if it's a $60 or F2P. While $60 might feel dirtier, it isn't a factor in the end. Microtransactions are microtransacations. They exist for the same purpose in both retail games and F2P. They both are designed to feed into the same addictive nature.

Deleted member 1476 · May 21, 2019

Good job Belgium, at least someone is trying.

Deleted member 10737 · May 21, 2019

interesting, i wonder if other EU countries will also adapt these laws.

i-Jest · May 21, 2019

None are safe from the onslaught.

woopWOOP · May 21, 2019

... Huh.
Netherlands soon to follow?

I enjoyed playing FEH as a F2P player so a nation-wide removal would kinda suck.

LordKano said:
In case you want a full guide, here's how I did it:

- Log off Fire Emblem Heroes
- Go to https://accounts.nintendo.com and, after being logged in, change your region account to France (or Netherlands if you're a nederlands spreker).
- If you have a Switch and an active NSO subscription, it'll likely ask you to turn off auto-renewal if it was on. Don't worry as it will not cancel or modify anything, it just needs auto renewal off.
- Back into FEH, on the title screen you can change your region to France/Netherlands/whatever you chose, log in with your Nintendo Account and voila.
- If you have a Switch, you'll have to log into your Nintendo Account next time you go on the eShop and type your password. That's it.

Gonna keep this in mind in case we're next, thanks

Pokemaniac · May 21, 2019

Good. Mobile games shouldn't be exempt from the loot boxes culling.

ShinUltramanJ · May 21, 2019

Good. Get rid of all that predatory shit. I'd rather outright buy a game then have a ftp game loaded with loot box/microtransaction trash.

Zelas · May 21, 2019

Mobyduck said:
The East? It's probably more profitable to makes these kinds of few and not release them in the west than trying a different model.

Its not even a Western problem. Other western countries have already given their ok. Belgium is an outlier. They're just going to be excluded with companies exercising the same nuance Belgium has showed them.

Kingpin Rogers · May 21, 2019

Fucking tragedy. Fire Emblem Heroes is great and very generous. Belgium can fuck off trying to decide what we can and cannot spend money on. Absolute pricks.

Raijinto · May 21, 2019

ZeoVGM said:
You didn't specify "$60 with microtransactions" in your original post. You worded it as if your problem was simply $60 games existing and that being worse than microtransactions.

Though honestly, it doesn't matter if it's a $60 or F2P. While $60 might feel dirtier, it isn't a factor in the end. Microtransactions are microtransacations. They exist for the same purpose in both retail games and F2P. They both are designed to feed into the same addictive nature.

My bad. Did mean $60 microtransactions games from the start.

DontHateTheBacon · May 21, 2019

That's a bummer for Belgium.

I wonder if we end up in a world where they just make mobile for America and Japan. Japan seems to love the concept of lootboxes; I spent a healthy amount of money on Persona and Danganronpa qgachapon while I was over there last year and I'm definitely not a lootbox guy... hmm, interesting times.

Asbsand · May 21, 2019

Osahi said:
Publishers won't stop without legislation, as it's a business model that works great for them. The problem is a small country like Belgium (11 milion citizens) taking a stance isn't enough. Only when bigger markets en countries join forces publishers willbe forced to abandon these practices.

Not really a problem for someone who doesn't think limits by legislation is good for the industry.

Asbsand · May 21, 2019

LordKano said:
eeeeeeh you can just download an apk you know

Good luck playing Pocket Camp though.

Lusamine · May 21, 2019

DontHateTheBacon said:
That's a bummer for Belgium.

I wonder if we end up in a world where they just make mobile for America and Japan. Japan seems to love the concept of lootboxes; I spent a healthy amount of money on Persona and Danganronpa qgachapon while I was over there last year and I'm definitely not a lootbox guy... hmm, interesting times.

Even if America stops in some alternate universe, Japan alone is enough for them to continue.

Amaterasu · May 21, 2019

Both of these could be played without ever spending a dime when I played them. Fire Emblem is constantly trying to throw orbs at me. Guess there's no point keeping it up there if they can't bring in any money though.

NekoNeko · May 21, 2019

Mario Run was excellent. no idea why it didn't click with people. easily my favourite game on a phone ever.

Deleted member 2791 · May 21, 2019

Asbsand said:
Good luck playing Pocket Camp though.

Huh ? Why is that different from anything else ?

EVA UNIT 01 · May 21, 2019

RABicle said:
Step 2: EU adopts this across the continent.
Step 3: Gamergate Youtubers suddenly become Pro-EU
Step 4: Brexit is cancelled
Step 5: Sargon of Akkad is gaoled
Step 6: Bernie Sanders wins the 2020 election.

Gaming is saved! Belgium has saved the world!

I read this as an end of metal gear game timeline

OfficerRaichu15 · May 21, 2019

ShinUltramanJ said:
Good. Get rid of all that predatory shit. I'd rather outright buy a game then have a ftp game loaded with loot box/microtransaction trash.

Sadly Nintendo's attempt at this on mobile performed badly. That's just how the mobile market is sadly.

Deleted member 36578 · May 21, 2019

unicornKnight said:
Damn this is stupid, those law should affect only greedy mobile companies and EA. Nintendo have the morale advantage.

As someone who stupidly dropped hundreds of dollars into Fire Emblem because of a gambling problem, I'm glad there are movements to stop these games from existing. Fire Emblem Heroes is just as bad as all the other gatchas.

Deleted member 36578 · May 21, 2019

Kingpin Rogers said:
Fucking tragedy. Fire Emblem Heroes is great and very generous. Belgium can fuck off trying to decide what we can and cannot spend money on. Absolute pricks.

It absolutely is not. You can call it generous all you want but if you can pull 100 times and not get the character you want it's a predatory gambling mechanic. Fire Emblem Heroes is just as bad as all the others.

Vylder · May 21, 2019

Kingpin Rogers said:
Fucking tragedy. Fire Emblem Heroes is great and very generous. Belgium can fuck off trying to decide what we can and cannot spend money on. Absolute pricks.

How is it generous? Because they give you a few orbs from time to time? Because the rates are slightly better than other games?

I've been playing this game every day since day one, and there are many characters I've never had the chance to pull yet.

Falchion · May 21, 2019

Nintendo is taking their ball home apparently.

delete12345 · May 21, 2019

Kouriozan said:
If only the mobile market would have accepted Mario Run, sadly it proved Nintendo that market only make money with F2P and whale fishing / mini-games with ads every 20 seconds.

Yes, but unfortunate that's the norm right now. F2P was in the business since 2007-2008, so it's nearly 10 years. You can't change the market swiftly when it's been like this for this long.

Shang · May 21, 2019

Amaterasu said:
Both of these could be played without ever spending a dime when I played them. Fire Emblem is constantly trying to throw orbs at me. Guess there's no point keeping it up there if they can't bring in any money though.

Pocket Camp has been very stingy with premium currency lately. Just last week they decreased the amount of LT from log in bonuses. You used to get at least 60 LT per month from log in bonuses, but now it's 36. LT from event goals have been reduced for months now.

Meanwhile, more and more furniture are now LT only. The most egregious example is a simple black wallpaper that costs the equivalent of 3 USD to craft. It's literally just a solid black background!

But at least with those you know what you're getting. It's the fortune cookies that are getting the game pulled from Belgium. And those have gotten pretty bad recently, too. Lots of "new" items that are just palette swaps of old items.

Amaterasu · May 21, 2019

Shang said:
Pocket Camp has been very stingy with premium currency lately. Just last week they decreased the amount of LT from log in bonuses. You used to get at least 60 LT per month from log in bonuses, but now it's 36. LT from event goals have been reduced for months now.

Meanwhile, more and more furniture are now LT only. The most egregious example is a simple black wallpaper that costs the equivalent of 3 USD to craft. It's literally just a solid black background!

But at least with those you know what you're getting. It's the fortune cookies that are getting the game pulled from Belgium. And those have gotten pretty bad recently, too. Lots of "new" items that are just palette swaps of old items.

None of that was in the game when I played. From what I've gathered, they weren't making any money off the game at that time either though.

sandboxgod · May 21, 2019

I fully agree with the OP we need wider adoption of these gambling laws to force these publishers to seek other ways to exploit the whales

Tempy · May 21, 2019

The sooner we get rid of this predatory shit in games, the better.

It's a shame Nintendo can't be arsed to come up with something better than gacha shenanigans.

Ryengeku · May 21, 2019

Crazy Izanagi said:
I've not spent a cent on Heroes.

But it would be an entirely different experience without Gacha mechanics within the game.
"No Play to wait" or "Needing to constantly check in for login bonuses" or "Pray that those orbs you've saved up will give you the character you want from a specific banner that's only time limited."

Fire Emblem Heroes & Animal Crossing: Pocket Camp will cease to exist in Belgium (microtransaction laws issue)

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