Fire Emblem: Three Houses |OT| My Students' Class Reunion Can't Be This Bad!

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Poodlestrike

There is much talk, and I have listened...
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Oct 25, 2017
5,013
You mean a rebelling against the Church who tried to murder students? Again, these are not innocent people, they tried to kill you without care. Catherine enjoys punishing those she sees as evil, that's just her personality. The way you trying to frame it, you would think they were killing farmers who only had pitch forks. And while you're getting on Catherine's attitude, that same mission was covered in fog and several Church soldiers died.

You seem to be going on about how Rhea have people worship her, while ignoring that she allowed humans to have Crests, which is literally made from of her family and used weapons forged from their bones to boot. Given what humans did to her kind, they quite frankly got off easy since given her power, she could have burned everything like what happened with TWSD.

Part 1 did a poor job if the message was 'Rhea is evil' since the only people again killed on-screen were people who committed murder and assassination attempt. Not sure why you're trying to downplay the context of the people you fought in Part 1. Also the whole 'She‘s borderline displaying an evil grin' sounds like how in Dragon Ball Super fans thought the Grand Priest was evil because he smirk evilly. Honestly, Edelgard comes off far worst than Rhea since we actually see her doing shady shit that lead to innocent people getting killed or turned into monsters.
FWIW:
It's implied heavily in the Ashe/Catherine paralogue that Lonato's son was innocent and the Church set him up as a scapegoat, so they're definitely in the wrong there. Catherine's reaction to finding out is basically to shrug. Plus, the Western Church guys Rhea has executed are different than the ones in the tomb, as evidenced by their being alive, and they denied any involvement, but she... had them executed anyway. I get that it's a medieval setting and trials are a modern invention, but still, seems harsh, and the characters around her don't react well to it either.

I would also say "yeah, she took control of Fodlan and made everyone worship her, but they got off easy because a tiny tiny number of them killed her family" is uh

Not exactly the argument I would make if I wanted her to seem sympathetic.
 

PK Gaming

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,699
That's the problem, it shouldn't be straightforward. And Rhea being captured maybe lazy just like your main character going into a coma for five years, but it still happened in all routes. So what change in the alternate that Rhea got away and needed so much effort to take down when she was subdued in the opening shots of the war everywhere else.
"It shouldn't be straightforward" isn't an argument. The characters have a plan that's been in the works for the years and they execute it. Not every route needs to have the same characters working as underdogs in the exact same way, especially when the characters in question have the military might of an empire behind them.

For God's sakes, one of the earlier missions plays out the same way in every route but the Black Eagles path, with Seteth, Gilbert and Claude opting for the "fire trap", something that's really on consistent with Claude's characterization. Rhea doesn't get kidnapped (again, off-screen) because she doesn't get swarmed by a bunch of demonic beasts. Dimitri also doesn't lose an eye or suffer significantly from mental illness either and becomes King so right off the bat there are differences intrinsic to that route. Expecting the Crimson Flower route to conform to such a dull plot point, especially when the entire game is predicated on a route system is completely ridiculous. If anything, the game shouldn't have had so many routes if there was going to be this much overlap.

Part 2: Thursday: Responding To The Wall Of Text

Once you side with Edelgard, everything becomes about her and Rhea going nuts. Which is really annoying since her time as the Flame Emperor and her dealing with TWSD are only touched upon in Hubert's supports and at the end where Edelgard vows to crushed them. You don't even get to fight (outside of text at the end of the route) or interact with them despite them supposedly being Edelgard's allies. They just disappeared after the time skip. That and no one ever finds out that she hired the bandits to kill Dimitri and Claude at the start of the game. And probably the most damning thing for me is her betraying you in the Holy Tomb is never mentioned, not even by her classmates. She used you and your class, ordered you deaths if you try to stop you, and even personally tries to kill you, yet all is forgiven because Rhea goes crazy dragon. Like come on, Edelgard should have been taken to task over that even if you side with her.

That and Edelgard in comparison to Dimitri, whose route is also his personal story that doesn't really focuses on the world, is dull. Edelgard doesn't change. She's less of a bitch compared to her other routes, but she's largely the same and she's never called out for what she did in Part 1. In comparison, Dimitri drastically changes through his story and is constantly called out on his crap to the point that his attitude gets someone he cared for killed. That and probably the bigger character for him is that he tried to make peace with Edelgard despite all the crap he put him through and no one would blame him killing her at that moment.

Third, reasons many of the people side with Edelgard if you chose her are half baked, especially if you compared their dialog to what they say if you side against Edelgard. One that comes to mind is Ferdinand. In his support with Hubert, he actually says that the reason why he wants to be better than Edelgard is because it his duty to guide her and keep her from going too far. He actually dislikes that Hubert kisses Edelgard's ass and not questions anything she does. Yet, he more or less does just that when he sides with Edelgard. Yeah, the public schools was his idea, but it really stands out that Ferdinand never confronts Edelgard about the stuff she did up to that point. Like wasn't ordering their deaths in the Holy Tomb not count as 'going too far'? Also Petra. She sounded the most hurt from Edelgard's betrayal, even asking if she really used them this entire time. Her follow up if you side with the Church is heartbreaking and she gave probably the most compelling reason to fight Edelgard. However, this is all thrown away if she's with Edelgard and is all for 'killing the beast', and never questions Edelgard again about using them.

Finally and my biggest grip with the route, the story bends over backwards to make Edelgard look better and present her as the underdog fighting a powerful god. In all routes, Edelgard is winning the war and even captures Rhea. However, in her personal route, not only is Rhea still at large, but for some reason she stalemated. Why is Byleth joining her make her fall behind and she failed to captured Rhea? Heck, with Byleth at her side, she should have more easily captured. It's really forced and no explanation is given for the change. There is also Rhea being far more nutty. I can buy her going off the rails because Byleth betrayed her, but I find it weird that she didn't go crazy dragon when Edelgard captured her and is sane once you freed her. That and she probably believed you were dead for fives years, so the idea that her mother died again should have set Rhea off and reign holy fire on Edelgard, but it didn't.

All and all, Edelgard's route feels half-baked. Edelgard doesn't change like Dimitri and her story is basically you taking over the world and killing Rhea with no contact with TWSD despite them being your 'allies'. I also don't get why the Death Knight disappears in her route since he came to your aid in Chapter 12 and Edelgard promises to explain everything, and proceed to never tell you anything. And the story have to alternate itself far more than any other routes to gimped Edelgard and empower Rhea to make her more of a foe for Edelgard to take down with Byleth, despite her doing that herself in all routes and even managed to take Rhea alive to boot. The route honestly comes off as a power fantasy where you take down the gods and free the world, with all the grayness from the other side being severally downplayed. Byleth enabling Edelgard and never confronting her over her acts on the Flame Emperor is also a severe oversight and you need to get support with Hubert if you want anything before the end of the game. That and Byleth's reasons for even joining Edelgard are never explored.

This route would have been so much better if they kept Edelgard having the edge like every other route and the story focuses more on trying to keep her in line like Dimitri and exploring more of the flaws in her thinking along with her dealings as the Flame Emperor while also helping her finish her conquest. And while Rhea works as a final boss for obvious reasons, they still should have captured her like they did in all the other routes and explore what was done to her during those five years and the finale should have been them confronting TWSD, who was obviously using Edelgard as a pawn to get their revenge on the gods.
Most of this is the usual "the story didn't play out the way I wanted to, therefore its disappointing" take that's relatively common in the fandom, but there are a few points I want to address.

1) Nobody finds out about Edelgard's evil deeds

How is this a problem. She repeatedly insists that she'll do anything to achieve her goals and not telling her allies that she attempted to pre-emptively tried to murder Claude and Dimitri falls into that. She even frames the Church for something TWSITD did later on to motivate her army, and it's a pretty shady thing. The story doesn't need to unfold in a neat, predictable way wherein every plot point is addressed. She doesn't need a big crying moment where her friends confront about "who the real monster is" like some bad anime.

2) Edelgard doesn't develop like Dimitri therefore she's bad

It's true that she doesn't develop like Dimitri, but that's because she's fundamentally a different character from him. She's the type of character the world changes in response to her and not the other way around. Forcing an unnecessary character arc would be tedious and annoying. That isn't to say she doesn't develop at all, because that's simply isn't true, but her growth has her growing into the person she was always meant to be. A youthful radical becoming a ruthless, powerful and efficient emperor is a good arc for her to have.

3) Half baked motivations for the Black Eagles

The church route deprives every character a support with Edelgard and Hubert (and a noticeable chunk of their character development in the process), so i'm not sure I agree.

Ferdinand, for instance, is in conflict with himself, something he repeatedly reiterates during the mission downtimes. I don't think there's anything wrong with having him grow up into this depressed guy who doesn't know what to do with himself, but ultimately changing by sticking true to his (childish, but endearing, values) as Edelgard's rival and confidant. You can't just write off his incredible suggestion of public education as "inconsequential." He still refutes her on the idea that the nobility system is completely bad from the ground up, and the parts of it that are good should be salvaged. That's a good dynamic to have with a revolutionary with Edelgard imo.

I mean you're right, nobody really discusses the Flame Emperor thing but it would take a considerable amount of writing to cover. Not something that can be done with extremely malleable characters that can join any route and the usual boilerplate "one character talks after another" setup they have. But the support conversations with Edelgard/Hubert and conversations at the monastery after each mission do a good enough job of selling why they'd work with her. If anything, it feels a bit cheap when that the Black Eagles side with Edelgard in 3/4 routes, and they instantly all decide to follow Byleth and shift into significantly more boring "we gotta stop our former friend!" characterization that's extremely common in Japanese media. Hell, i'm pretty sure most of the Black Eagles supports have them explicitly mention Edelgard in a way that implies they're on the same side, even in the church route.

4) The rest

You're too insistent on routes playing out the way you want them to, with anything that falls outside of that expectation being "dull" or "half-baked". But those are your feelings, not measured arguments. "Edelgard being on edge" doesn't work for this route for the reasons I've stated, and it doesn't need to be that way either. Same with Edelgard being unsure about her convictions doesn't work when she is so resolute about her convictions that she's willing to commit an untold amount of atrocities (God forbid. We had enough of that with Corrin).

You're damn right this is a power fantasy, and a good one at that; getting to play as the resource-laden empire, a group that doesn't want for troops, food or moral is a great contrast to the Blue Lions route, a bitter and depressing situation where you claw victory from the jaws of defeat. You don't need to be on the run when the route is concerned about forcing your will on the rest of the world and that contrast makes it GOOD.

I'll give you credit for not going with the "they didn't confront TWSITD, therefore the route sucks" argument, though I never cared about not dealing with them either. Edelgard was always motivated by overthrowing the nobility system, not rooting a bunch of rats (something I'm sure the GD route does well). I'm actually glad the story didn't derail itself having Edelgard deal with An Entire Organization after accomplishing the goal she's been working towards her entire life. Hubert and Edelgard working with the worst people ever and making it clear that they despise them is an interesting direction to take your main protagonists to have. Edelgard even mentions that Lord Arundel will be useful in the coming days to help transition the world into a new state. You call out the route for losing its moral complexity by having a human vs god conflict, but explicitly ignore the fact that Edelgard invades (and destroys) 2 countries and sides with monsters to achieve her goals. It's so grimy, and it's not the sort of thing you usually get in stories, let alone video game stories.

A DLC scenario where you finally take them out, post-story would definitely be appreciated though.

5) What about Death Knight

What about him, the character fucking sucks

It's not a perfect route, but it definitely has a lot going for it.
 

valinthyne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
233
Not allowing a divine pluse use after the last turn is LAME. I lost my Mercedes (who I JUST selected to be my dancer) due to someone coming outta fog, and all i could do was reset and start over. Feels very bad. Especially with it being a "survive for 10 rounds" stage.
 

Astraer

Member
Oct 28, 2017
243
Time to take a break I think, been playing the game nonstop since release really and beat the BE-E route and then the GD route at the weekend. Now doing a BL run but I think i'm finally getting burnt out around Chapter 8. It doesn't help that the first half of the game is so similar.
 

HBK

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,400
Not allowing a divine pluse use after the last turn is LAME. I lost my Mercedes (who I JUST selected to be my dancer) due to someone coming outta fog, and all i could do was reset and start over. Feels very bad. Especially with it being a "survive for 10 rounds" stage.
One of the reasons I still prefer the good old battle saves.
 
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