Fire Emblem: Three Houses Plot, Characters and routes discussion thread (Open Spoilers)

[Rutger]

The problem is that she does a very shit job at explaining what she wants to do. You basically have to go in blind in the choice because she only explains to you her plans after you side with her. Of course she wont have any allies that way

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Yeah, that's my complaint. The game fails to give Edelgard a full path of her own. Not going further into details around her and letting her explain herself until the last minute.

And then the rest of the paths throw out what depth there is because they want a typical villain. It's a waste.

Well that is my opinion. If Edelgard wasnt an antagonitic force the game basically wouldnt happen.

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The church as shown early on in the game would have served a fine antagonist. As I mentioned earlier, their executions could have easily started a war of their own.

Making Edelgard the sole instigation instead of the continent being a powder keg ready to explode from any side was a mistake. Having different starts to the war on the different paths would have benefitted the story greatly imo.

 

[Sol]

The problem with the writing is that too much revolves around Byleth, and the warped characterizations that ensue. Post-timeskip Edelgard/Dimitri's characterizations are essentially exclusive to their own routes because they are considerably worse off without their influence. Just like how crazy Rhea only ever shows herself on Edelgard's route and only gives very brief hints of it on the others.

I get that they heard too many complaints about Corrin, but I feel like making other character's personalities so extreme based on your own choice just made the narrative even worse.

 

[DeusOcha]

The problem with the writing is that too much revolves around Byleth, and the warped characterizations that ensue. Post-timeskip Edelgard/Dimitri's characterizations are essentially exclusive to their own routes because they are considerably worse off without their influence. Just like how crazy Rhea only ever shows herself on Edelgard's route and only gives very brief hints of it on the others.

I get that they heard too many complaints about Corrin, but I feel like making other character's personalities so extreme based on your own choice just made the narrative even worse.

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I think this is a major factor and reason why you cannot pin down one faction/route as clear protags/antags. Byleth, despite being a blank-slate for player-insert, influences characters/the route to the point that their absence would change the route entirely. For instance, regarding Edelgard's/Crimson Eagle's path, Edelgard made clear mention that Byleth's presence/decision caused her to open up or "not close herself off". The absence of whome would just leave her with, what, Hubert? Not to mention the option to spare Claude who had similar ideals to Edelgard.

 

[Rutger]

The problem with the writing is that too much revolves around Byleth, and the warped characterizations that ensue. Post-timeskip Edelgard/Dimitri's characterizations are essentially exclusive to their own routes because they are considerably worse off without their influence. Just like how crazy Rhea only ever shows herself on Edelgard's route and only gives very brief hints of it on the others.

I get that they heard too many complaints about Corrin, but I feel like making other character's personalities so extreme based on your own choice just made the narrative even worse.

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Honestly I don't mind this.

The idea of a small choice such as what class to teach having a major influence over their actions in the future is cool. And I feel the main lords are still their own.

But it's a shame now is when they want the avatar to be a silent character, it would work better if Byleth had their own character like Robin.

 

[NSESN]

That is why I like what they did with Claude characterization, sure he feels less involved with the plot, but it doesn't seem like Byleth changes who he is. Claude is more like a partner than someone that depends on Byleth like the others.

 

[gyrspike]

This choice should have been present in all routes, one way or another. Right now BE is kind of a "privileged" route in that it offers something the other two don't (a significant plot choice).

On another topic (or is it really?) I did the Ashe paralogue and oh man I should've taken notes. "Let's slaughter some heretics yo!"

I can't find a transcript but seriously Cathy is one hell of a Zealot.

Also the final scene where Ashe obtains some documents and the Church doesn't give a fuck hahaha

Oh well sorry I'm a bit tired but well, they don't want us to like this church do they. I dunno why I expected otherwise though.

I thought maybe with this mission I could get some additional insight or another perspective, but no 🤷‍♀️

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The whole Ashe/Catherine things gets really wierd. In my BL playthough I got Ashe and Catherine max support with each other and in the ending they end up living together after Catherine retires from the church.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

That is why I like what they did with Claude characterization, sure he feels less involved with the plot, but it doesn't seem like Byleth changes who he is. Claude is more like a partner than someone that depends on Byleth like the others.

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hmmm, thats actually a good way to describe why I liked claude

I actually akin claude and Byleth to Robin and Chrom, but Claude is the Robin in this pairing. Coming up with Crazy schemes for Byleth to execute.

 

[Rommaz]

That is why I like what they did with Claude characterization, sure he feels less involved with the plot, but it doesn't seem like Byleth changes who he is. Claude is more like a partner than someone that depends on Byleth like the others.

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My favorite part of their dynamic. The scene at the end really hammers that home.

 

[Quinton]

I'm curious: who is the final boss in Claude's route? I know Dimitri's last clash is Edelgard, and I just completed my first file, Church, so obviously I'm well aware that I had to put down poor Rhea.

For some reason I was expecting 22 chapters in Church like Dimitri and Claude apparently have? But I can't complain! The game gave me a whopping Edelgard->Those Who Slither in the Dark->Rhea final trio of missions so I'm certainly satisfied.

A bit confused as to whether or not I was supposed to fully understand Thales' people and Rhea's abrupt transformation but very satisfied!

 

[The Adder]

I'm curious: who is the final boss in Claude's route?

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Nemesis.

Which is poetic. The genocide of Rhea's people and the genesis of the Crests came from Nemesis and his followers seeking to repel an overwhelming foreign invasion. It's appropriate that a half-Almyran and a partially reborn Sothis end their journey together taking him out.

The church killed a lord for siding with a different church

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No, they killed a lord for literally mounting a military campaign against the central church.

 

[Quinton]

Nemesis.

Which is poetic. The genocide of Rhea's people and the genesis of the Crests came from Nemesis and his followers seeking to repel an overwhelming foreign invasion. It's appropriate that a half-Almyran and a partially reborn Sothis end their journey together taking him out.

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Wow, that's fascinating! Thank you. :)

 

[The Adder]

Wow, that's fascinating! Thank you. :)

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Happy to help.

 

[PK Gaming]

Edelgard was right btw.

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[suracity]

The church killed a lord for siding with a different church, and no one with power in that nation objected. That alone could have started a legit war but everything is oddly quiet.

Yeah, we later see the church's influence doesn't match that, and I think this harms the story.

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I'm sorry but the first point doesn't stand.
The western church is part of the Religion, from normal believers point of view, western church states a coup and tries to assassinate the pope to gain power within the religious organization, that's like capital letter Treason and Blasphemy. Those execution will hardly raise enough eyebrows in a pious society to start a war. The only criticism common folks may give is Rhea's brutal approach and no compromise attitude.
Religion has power because people believe in them, especially people with power. In turn people in power use religion to enhance their power to control their subjects. However once you put a dent on the religion, those bandwagon opportunistic nobles will be the first to leave the banner. By then you only have the most loyal or zealous personals. Even in earth history, there is always dynamics and shift in power between politics and religion.

Like in the BL route, you think those nobles who surrender at the first sight of Empire will fight for Church? The separatists in Kingdom and Alliance have no loyalty or allegiance to speak of. They only fight for personal gains; they support the Church when it's in power, they will abandon it the moment its position is challenged.

 

[Kewlmyc]

I love this exchange so much. It happens when you send Edelgard to kill Dimitri in the second to last map of Edelgard's route.

Dimitri is 100% correct here and I love it.

God, Edelgard's route is such an improvement over Fates Conquest in the "are we the baddies?" theme. Just wish it was longer, and had you actually deal with Those Who Slither In the Dark.

 

[Bonejack]

You know as loyal as Hubert and Dedue both are you definitely don't want either of them to be the only ones that Edelgard and Dimitri have as close advisers. Neither of them are very good at reining in their lord's worst tendencies.

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Meanwhile Hubert's out there actually doing horrible acts but not telling Edelgard about them, even though she'd be all "yeah that's cool, go for it"

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Hubert is definitely not "blindly" following Edelgard, see his support with Ferdinand. He even goes as far and does things she explicitly told him not to do.

Speculation, but about that credits screen where it's said that Hubert took out the leftover threats by assassination and other means after the war ended ... i could see Edelgard not even knowing this. Given what TWSID did to her and her family, and the obvious disgust she has against them even as the Flame Empreror, i'd certainly believe that she wanted to deal with those assholes herself, especially Arundel/Thales.

The game pulls no punches in trying to show her as a villain

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Recruit Bernie in other playthroughs, got it.

I love this exchange so much. It happens when you send Edelgard to kill Dimitri in the second to last map of Edelgard's route.

Dimitri is 100% correct here and I love it.

God, Edelgard's route is such an improvement over Fates Conquest in the "are we the baddies?" theme. Just wish it was longer, and had you actually deal with Those Who Slither In the Dark.

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Eh ... that's quite the lopsided argument he uses there. It's not like the previous histroy of Fodlan isn't built on exactly the same things. This goes for every group outside maybe the Alliance. The Kingdom was founded by revolution and war, the Church was by domination after Nemesis' death. Even the Empire was founded on betrayal and war.

I mean, it's true what he says, but it's not a good argument, when the histroy of Fodlan has been like that for almost all the time.

 

[HBK]

I mean, it's true what he says, but it's not a good argument, when the histroy of Fodlan has been like that for almost all the time.

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Yeah pretty much. The whole thing about Edelgard's war is a "pick your poison" situation.

Either you keep the messy status quo, or you try to change stuff and it'll be messy.

In the end there will be death and suffering. Even war at some point.

All those Western Church have nothing to do with Edelgard's plan. They are already rebelling on their own. Of course TWISTED is behind it somehow, but if you remove TWISTED then you basically remove almost everything in the game. The whole millennia-old Nemesis/Sothis/Seiros situation is wildly different. And the millennia of history behind it changes entirely. Might as well write a totally different story.

 

[SliceSabre]

I'm honestly glad there's an ending in which Rhea(S-support with her Church route) survives works to atone for what she's done and helps reform the church. Because it shows that Rhea isn't a lost cause and there is a scenario in which she can be reasoned with.

 

[Mendrox]

I love this exchange so much. It happens when you send Edelgard to kill Dimitri in the second to last map of Edelgard's route.

Dimitri is 100% correct here and I love it.

God, Edelgard's route is such an improvement over Fates Conquest in the "are we the baddies?" theme. Just wish it was longer, and had you actually deal with Those Who Slither In the Dark.

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Dimitri my double standards boy. lol

 

[Poodlestrike]

I love this exchange so much. It happens when you send Edelgard to kill Dimitri in the second to last map of Edelgard's route.

Dimitri is 100% correct here and I love it.

God, Edelgard's route is such an improvement over Fates Conquest in the "are we the baddies?" theme. Just wish it was longer, and had you actually deal with Those Who Slither In the Dark.

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He's like... correct but he's also sorta missing the point. Fodlan's entire history is built on a foundation of corpses and tears, very literally. Edelgard is building a new status quo the same way, in a sense.

Agreed on Those who Slither, the more I think on it the more it bugs me. It'd have been great to finish off Rhea, accomplish Edelgard's political goals, and then move on to the personal romp of revenge.

 

[HBK]

I'm honestly glad there's an ending in which Rhea(S-support with her Church route) survives works to atone for what she's done and helps reform the church. Because it shows that Rhea isn't a lost cause and there is a scenario in which she can be reasoned with.

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Once Edelgard declares war on the whole continent.

Don't get me wrong, I agree. It's nice that she's redeemable, but a war is needed for this to happen.

 

[Biestmann]

Dimitri is wrong for not wearing an eyepatch alone. God, that's just wrong.

 

[HBK]

Serious lore question.

Is it actually explained at some point how Thales can basically counter Sothis's time manipulation abilities?

Or is it just "a wizard did it" for that dramatic scene?

 

[The Adder]

Serious lore question.

Is it actually explained at some point how Thales can basically counter Sothis's time manipulation abilities?

Or is it just "a wizard did it" for that dramatic scene?

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He doesn't. Being able to do it multiple times in succession is a gameplay mechanic, not canon. Byleth uses it and attacks and Thales is simply able to intervene and stop her attack, which he didn't have to do the first time but would have if he had.

 

[NSESN]

Once Edelgard declares war on the whole continent.

Don't get me wrong, I agree. It's nice that she's redeemable, but a war is needed for this to happen.

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How many times it needs to be said she was going to abdicate regardless. The whole thing in the holy tomb was to confirm that Byleth was Sothis so she could pass to him the control of the church
A war was nener necessary

 

[Deleted member 32822]

Rhea is a garbage bible thumper. I cant believe she has stans in here.

Is there any storyline that address the random evil wizard that appears? I beat Edelgard's good ending last night but the wizard dude was never addressed and I'm confused as to why he was even there.

 

[NSESN]

Rhea is a garbage bible thumper. I cant believe she has stans in here.

Is there any storyline that address the random evil wizard that appears? I beat Edelgard's good ending last night but the wizard dude was never addressed and I'm confused as to why he was even there.

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You should play other routes before doing takes like this

 

[Deleted member 32822]

You should play other routes before doing takes like this

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I'm starting Claude's route now. I'm bookmarking your post and will be following up.

 

[Tochtli79]

How many times it needs to be said she was going to abdicate regardless. The whole thing in the holy tomb was to confirm that Byleth was Sothis so she could pass to him the control of the church
A war was nener necessary

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All this means is she was going to abdicate to a clone God proxy she hoped would continue controlling the world exactly as she had

Defending Rhea because she atones if you marry her doesn't mean much since all Crimson Flower is Edelgard literally not doing anything reprehensible outside of starting war, which isn't abnormal for fantasy medieval standards, and achieving peace. That doesn't mean all criticism of her is suddenly invalidated because this one specific version of events worked out for her.

I find both Rhea and Edelgard compelling characters largely because they can and should be seen as good AND bad.

 

[The Adder]

Edelgard literally not doing anything reprehensible outside of starting war,

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And attempting to assassinate her classmates who were guilty of no wrongs

And working with genociders (not people who have committed one genocide, but people responsible for two)

And establishing a a continent-spanning autocratic Empire.

And knowing exactly jack and shit about anything going on, instead taking the word of the people who are directly responsible for everything wrong with Fodlan in the first place because, hey, at least they're technically human.

 

[HBK]

He doesn't. Being able to do it multiple times in succession is a gameplay mechanic, not canon. Byleth uses it and attacks and Thales is simply able to intervene and stop her attack, which he didn't have to do the first time but would have if he had.

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Kind of what I figured, but unsatisfying nonetheless. It's not like you can rewind and hour of combat in battle ...

Edit: Seriously at that point I expected further developments about how they can somehow counter the powers of the goddess. But alas...

 

[PK Gaming]

I love how Black Eagles!Dimitri is this (relatively) healthy individual who's been ruling as a King for 5 years, but is naive and ultimately a shittier person than his more gruff counterpart in the Blue Lions route.

How many times it needs to be said she was going to abdicate regardless. The whole thing in the holy tomb was to confirm that Byleth was Sothis so she could pass to him the control of the church
A war was nener necessary

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A war was necessary to overthrow the status quo of nobility and society's structural dependence on crests. This is basic stuff.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

And attempting to assassinate her classmates who were guilty of no wrongs

And working with genociders (not people who have committed one genocide, but people responsible for two)

And establishing a a continent-spanning autocratic Empire.

And knowing exactly jack and shit about anything going on, instead taking the word of the people who are directly responsible for everything wrong with Fodlan in the first place because, hey, at least they're technically human.

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Also lying about the nuke's source

 

[NSESN]

All this means is she was going to abdicate to a clone God proxy she hoped would continue controlling the world exactly as she had

Defending Rhea because she atones if you marry her doesn't mean much since all Crimson Flower is Edelgard literally not doing anything reprehensible outside of starting war, which isn't abnormal for fantasy medieval standards, and achieving peace. That doesn't mean all criticism of her is suddenly invalidated because this one specific version of events worked out for her.

I find both Rhea and Edelgard compelling characters largely because they can and should be seen as good AND bad.

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A war was necessary to overthrow the status quo of nobility and society's structural dependence on crests. This is basic stuff.

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I am not saying Rhea is good. I am just saying that she would abdicate war or no war.

Also I already talked that there is no way of knowing that war was necessary to overthrow the status quo because Edel starts a war no matter what. It isnt basic stuff

 

[PlanetSmasher]

A war was necessary to overthrow the status quo of nobility and society's structural dependence on crests. This is basic stuff.

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Of course, that could've happened without installing a murderous dictator as Ruler of All afterward.

That's the thing - wars don't have to be about conquest. A liberation war would've made way more narrative sense than "replace one corrupt system with MY corrupt system because I'm everyone's favorite waifu".

 

[Kinsei]

Also lying about the nuke's source

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That wasn't a bad thing.

 

[The Adder]

A war was necessary to overthrow the status quo of nobility and society's structural dependence on crests. This is basic stuff.

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It wasn't, though.

 

[Kewlmyc]

Eh ... that's quite the lopsided argument he uses there. It's not like the previous histroy of Fodlan isn't built on exactly the same things. This goes for every group outside maybe the Alliance. The Kingdom was founded by revolution and war, the Church was by domination after Nemesis' death. Even the Empire was founded on betrayal and war.

I mean, it's true what he says, but it's not a good argument, when the histroy of Fodlan has been like that for almost all the time.

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Dimitri my double standards boy. lol

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He's like... correct but he's also sorta missing the point. Fodlan's entire history is built on a foundation of corpses and tears, very literally. Edelgard is building a new status quo the same way, in a sense.

Agreed on Those who Slither, the more I think on it the more it bugs me. It'd have been great to finish off Rhea, accomplish Edelgard's political goals, and then move on to the personal romp of revenge.

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Can't really agree with this.

If the BL goes further into Dimitri's own war crimes, feel free to let me know, but him calling out that Edelgard is building an empire on top of blood and tears isn't really hypocritical of him in the BE's routes. I'm sure that he didn't do the Tragety of Duscar or the take over of initial Fodlan himself (feel free to correct me), so it's not really fair to say he's a hypocrite for something his ancestors did. At the end of the day, Edelgard sided with people that killed a bunch of innocent villagers (only in her route do you learn that she's opposed to the Slitherers as well) and started a war immediately afterward, during what was widely considered "peace times". A war that, imo, is just a brute force way of accomplishing the same thing Claude wants to do (and accomplishes).

I like Edelgard due to her being truly morally grey, so I glad that Dimitri calls her out on this, even if his ancestors did the same. Dimitri comes across as actually not a bad person in the Crimson Flower route, which wasn't what I was expecting. I guess they only needed one character, Rhea, being a complete monster in that route (the moment you side with El, she threatens to tear your heart out, goddamn lady).

 

[NSESN]

Of course, that could've happened without installing a murderous dictator as Ruler of All afterward.

That's the thing - wars don't have to be about conquest. A liberation war would've made way more narrative sense than "replace one corrupt system with MY corrupt system because I'm everyone's favorite waifu".

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You bring a good point, even if war was necessary, it doesnt mean that the war Edelgard did was necessary, specially she attacking other countries

That wasn't a bad thing.

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How it wasnt? She has no reason to lie to her school friends that are also her closest generals

 

[The Adder]

How it wasnt? She has no reason to lie to her school friends that are also her closer generals

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She has plenty of reason to lie. You see, if she doesn't lie her allies might start questioning her intentions, which would make it difficult to establish herself as sole authority over her autocratic empire. And we certainly can't have that, now can we?

 

[Rayne]

Dimitri my double standards boy. lol

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to be fair that's the route he's sane in...for some reason.

 

[PK Gaming]

Of course, that could've happened without installing a murderous dictator as Ruler of All afterward.

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I don't that's accurate at all. Nobody has the conviction or desire to overthrow the crest system. Nobody else has the formative years of abuse to understand how truly awful it can. Things like people being abandoned because they didn't manifest a crest or women being forced into inhuman marriages to give birth to children with crests. Dimitri and Claude have no desire to address this, especially Byleth, a person who is nearly completely devoid of their own wants.

That's the thing - wars don't have to be about conquest. A liberation war would've made way more narrative sense than "replace one corrupt system with MY corrupt system because I'm everyone's favorite waifu".

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I don't understand what you're trying to get at all. What is a liberation war? How does that make more narrative sense when its not consistent with Edelgard's motivations? How does Edelgard overthrow feudalism without forcing her will on the continent?

And why strawman people who disagree with you as waifu lovers?

 

[The Adder]

to be fair that's the route he's sane in...for some reason.

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Because Edelgard committed fewer atrocities with Byleth around.

 

[PK Gaming]

It wasn't, though.

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Explain to me why it wasn't then

 

[NSESN]

I don't that's accurate at all. Nobody has the conviction or desire to overthrow the crest system. Nobody else has the formative years of abuse to understand how truly awful it can. Things like people being abandoned because they didn't manifest a crest or women being forced into inhuman marriages to give birth to children with crests. Dimitri and Claude have no desire to address this, especially Byleth, a person who is nearly completely devoid of their own wants.

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Hanneman literally has a much better plan to overthrow the crest system, a plan that Rhea doesnt even try to stop.

 

[Deleted member 32822]

I think the fantasy trope of

Kingdom = Good
Empire = Bad

Affects people's perception of Edelgard more than they're willing to admit.

 

[Rayne]

I think the fantasy trope of

Kingdom = Good
Empire = Bad

Affects people's perception of Edelgard more than they're willing to admit.

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Also Church evil with Rhea.

Because Edelgard committed fewer atrocities with Byleth around.

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True enough.

 

[NSESN]

I think the fantasy trope of

Kingdom = Good
Empire = Bad

Affects people's perception of Edelgard more than they're willing to admit.

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Just like the trope that church is evil affect how people see Rhea
Edit: beaten

 

[Deleted member 32822]

Also Church evil with Rhea.



True enough.

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I mean...she's also kinda shady and transforms into an angry monster.

 

[Bonejack]

Of course, that could've happened without installing a murderous dictator as Ruler of All afterward.

That's the thing - wars don't have to be about conquest. A liberation war would've made way more narrative sense than "replace one corrupt system with MY corrupt system because I'm everyone's favorite waifu".

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Again with that stuff.

I'd like to know one "murderous dictator, Ruler of All" that did the following: Abdicate by their own will, give a vassal state it's sovereignty back, establish diplomatic connections to a previous invading continent, improves social structure and enables all people to have the same chance.

Just one.

You bring a good point, even if war was necessary, it doesnt mean that the war Edelgard did was necessary, specially she attacking other countries

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It was, because who and/or what would guarantee that the other nations would get also rid of the crests and embrace social reforms? There's enough asshole lords who would basically be "Yeah lol, you remove your crests, we say hi with our forces then after a while, including crests".

Also leaving other countries would give TWSID a possible retreat and the option to make a Nemesis II to take down the Empire.

Because having Hubert assassinate people in other countries counts as an act of warfare.

Can't really agree with this.

If the BL goes further into Dimitri's own war crimes, feel free to let me know, but him calling out that Edelgard is building an empire on top of blood and tears isn't really hypocritical of him in the BE's routes. I'm sure that he didn't do the Tragety of Duscar or the take over of initial Fodlan himself (feel free to correct me), so it's not really fair to say he's a hypocrite for something his ancestors did. At the end of the day, Edelgard sided with people that killed a bunch of innocent villagers (only in her route do you learn that she's opposed to the Slitherers as well) and started a war immediately afterward, during what was widely considered "peace times". A war that, imo, is just a brute force way of accomplishing the same thing Claude wants to do (and accomplishes).

I like Edelgard due to her being truly morally grey, so I glad that Dimitri calls her out on this, even if his ancestors did the same. Dimitri comes across as actually not a bad person in the Crimson Flower route, which wasn't what I was expecting. I guess they only needed one character, Rhea, being a complete monster in that route (the moment you side with El, she threatens to tear your heart out, goddamn lady).

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Again, the Holy Kingdom was founded on a revolution, a bloody war and then they got a "out of prison" card by the church. Dimitri being king of a nation that achieved their goals by doing exactly what he calls out there is the reason it's not a good argument.