Fire Emblem: Three Houses Plot, Characters and routes discussion thread (Open Spoilers)

Poodlestrike

There is much talk, and I have listened...
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,120
Even with time travel, there would have to be a LOT of changes that would make a 5th route like that to be able to work.

One major one being that without context of each other route, it would be even more confusing than the current 4 route-story-split ends up being.

The other being that even with time travel, Edelgard and Rhea are the lynchpins on making the story progress (and TWSITD, but it's not likely you'd ally with them)...and Edelgard hates Rhea because lizard people. Meanwhile, Rhea pre-timeskip, is more than willing to go Seiros on the unbelievers.

I'm not sure how I could see you convincing Edelgard unless you pick up the BE house and/or get access to all three houses - and even then, you would have to drastically change Edelgard's mind somehow early on, and/or incorporate her into dealing with Rhea without somehow triggering an immaculate one appearance.

So unless you time travel either back to Edelgard being kidnapped and 'save her' (after the crest is put in), and/or you somehow defuse Rhea way back in the Nemesis days, it would take a helluva lot of writing to somehow make things come together.


If they were ever to make a golden route, though, they'd have to find a way to 'defuse' edelgard (either make a united house with dimitri and claude, or somehow gain her trust super early on and convince her to change her mind somehow), and gain Rhea's trust.

Theoretically, this could be accomplished by having TWSITD become a much more visible/bigger threat....but I'm not sure what would draw them out into the open so early on in the story.
Haaaah this is what I meant by people ignoring, this what that wall of text I posted on the other page did - basically, you need to convince Hubert that it's in Edelgard's best interests to tell Claude (using future knowledge and possibly Future Byleth's corpse), then you go to Claude and convince him he can accomplish his ideals safely with Edelgard's help, then go to present Edelgard with the fait accompli that Claude already knows so she needs to trust you and him if she wants it to work out, then all of you go to Dimitri and get him to sign on by promising him the head of Those who Slither. The plot comes from a) Rhea not being on board with blowing up the Crests under any circumstances and b) Those who Slither noticing that they've lost control of Edelgard (or at least that she's started assembly an independent powerbase ahead of schedule) and they move to counter that by seizing the Empire and fomenting revolt in the other territories.
 

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
3,435
What was Edelgard's plan in Blue Lions route if she'd defeated Dimitri after transforming into a monster?
 

Poodlestrike

There is much talk, and I have listened...
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,120
What was Edelgard's plan in Blue Lions route if she'd defeated Dimitri after transforming into a monster?
Change back?

Honestly I dunno if that's even possible without getting beaten, she's pretty far gone at that point. Doubt there really was a plan beyond "don't lose."
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,876
Haven't we been over this! There was no incest in fates! Every single one (even azura) is hilariously explained away
I'm not sure what makes me more uncomfortable, the fact that the game wanted to play on incest fetishes or the fact that it was simultaneously too cowardly to commit to them and handwaved them away so that it could still profit off of the people who are into that sort of thing without actually having biological incest in their game.

Makes me cringe just thinking about it. God, Fates was fucking terrible.
 

spiritfox

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,586
He really should have been recruitable post timeskip alongside Fleche to compensate the lack of Catherine and Cyril at least. It would have been hilarious if his apology to Manuela was actually a support conversation
Yeah, I was really disappointed you don't get to recruit DK in Edelgard's route.
 

Metroidvania

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,354
Haaaah this is what I meant by people ignoring, this what that wall of text I posted on the other page did - basically, you need to convince Hubert that it's in Edelgard's best interests to tell Claude (using future knowledge and possibly Future Byleth's corpse), then you go to Claude and convince him he can accomplish his ideals safely with Edelgard's help, then go to present Edelgard with the fait accompli that Claude already knows so she needs to trust you and him if she wants it to work out, then all of you go to Dimitri and get him to sign on by promising him the head of Those who Slither. The plot comes from a) Rhea not being on board with blowing up the Crests under any circumstances and b) Those who Slither noticing that they've lost control of Edelgard (or at least that she's started assembly an independent powerbase ahead of schedule) and they move to counter that by seizing the Empire and fomenting revolt in the other territories.
I'm honestly not sure taking the focus 'off' of the 'Lord' and onto Hubert would really work out all that well - Hubert works (in his current iteration) as a schemer and 'goes behind edel's back when necessary' type who mainly sticks to the shadows and goes off on how he'll murder people for opposing Edelgard.

Meanwhile, Edelgard trusts him to work in her best interest, but I don't know if going that angle really works for the type of plot you're describing - as in this case, you're connecting with Hubert, not Edelgard, and it's Edelgard you really need to not only convince, but change her mind.

Hubert, from what I recall, never really manages the latter (though admittedly not really trying all that hard - the main instance I remember is Edelgard telling him to shove it on her not participating in battles in BE-E route).

Claude having the same/similar goals on the church does lend well to him and Edelgard teaming up, and Dimitri can be handwaved by explaining the Duscur situation, but that initial foray into convincing Edelgard feels like it would need something more...impactful to Edelgard personally, in order to make her doubt her convictions enough to get her to bend.
 

Terraforce

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
8,883
Haven't we been over this! There was no incest in fates! Every single one (even azura) is hilariously explained away
Having sex with your foster family technically isn't incest but still weird as fuck.

How was Azura explained btw? I must have wiped most of that game from my memory because I chose Azura but can't remember for the life of me what happened there.
 

Bit_Reactor

Member
Apr 9, 2019
1,354
I made this. Golden Deer players, please tell me if my reading is wrong, as I only know about that route from spoilers and hearsay.

Seeing this gives me hope that I'm just over-reacting to the Blue Eagles route post time skip so far and I'll get more of the story as I go on. I've avoided most spoilers in this thread but wanted to take a look at this image as it seemed a recap of the routes.

I'm assuming it's:
Blue Lions
Black Eagles - Side with Edel
Golden Deer
Black Eagles - Side with Church

This gives me hope I'll be less annoyed by some of the random plot threads but I'm still annoyed that post time skip it seems like no one even did much while you were away.

How was Azura explained btw? I must have wiped most of that game from my memory because I chose Azura but can't remember for the life of me what happened there.
What's funny about Azura is I thought she was the one that WAS actually by blood related the protag. Man Fates was effing terrible.
 

Poodlestrike

There is much talk, and I have listened...
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,120
I'm honestly not sure taking the focus 'off' of the 'Lord' and onto Hubert would really work out all that well - Hubert works (in his current iteration) as a schemer and 'goes behind edel's back when necessary' type who mainly sticks to the shadows and goes off on how he'll murder people for opposing Edelgard.

Meanwhile, Edelgard trusts him to work in her best interest, but I don't know if going that angle really works for the type of plot you're describing - as in this case, you're connecting with Hubert, not Edelgard, and it's Edelgard you really need to not only convince, but change her mind.

Hubert, from what I recall, never really manages the latter (though admittedly not really trying all that hard - the main instance I remember is Edelgard telling him to shove it on her not participating in battles in BE-E route).

Claude having the same/similar goals on the church does lend well to him and Edelgard teaming up, and Dimitri can be handwaved by explaining the Duscur situation, but that initial foray into convincing Edelgard feels like it would need something more...impactful to Edelgard personally, in order to make her doubt her convictions enough to get her to bend.
The trick I think wouldn't be making her bend but more... redirecting her. She's willing to flex her methods as opportunities arise - that's why Edelgard does things so differently on her route. What you'd need to do is forcibly present her with new options in the form of reading in Claude. Hubert is there a) because it'd be funny to have him take care of the body of Future Byleth and b) because you need someone who can guarantee Claude an audience with Edelgard, I think. I agree that it'd be fairly unconventional, though.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,104
Having sex with your foster family technically isn't incest but still weird as fuck.

How was Azura explained btw? I must have wiped most of that game from my memory because I chose Azura but can't remember for the life of me what happened there.
their moms werent actually sisters, just so close to each other that they called eachother sisters

im not kidding
 

Poodlestrike

There is much talk, and I have listened...
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,120
Can we talk about what this means? I’ve seen a lot of talk about Edelgard ending crests, but I don’t recall them actually ceasing to be a thing in her route. Or is it just referring to them losing their societal significance?
I think it's mostly the latter. I'd have to go back and check, but I think that the only Crest that gets "destroyed" is the Crest of Flames - who knows if she doesn't do the same with the others after the end of the story, but there's reference to Crest research continuing afterwards in a few of the epilogue pages, so I doubt it.
 

Lunar15

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,457
Is Hanneman's ending the same no matter your route? In Blue Lions, his ending is that he invents tools that can be used the same as the relics yet without crests, allowing people to stop using relics nearly as much.

Hanneman Route when? Science rules!
 

Apollo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,505
I think it's mostly the latter. I'd have to go back and check, but I think that the only Crest that gets "destroyed" is the Crest of Flames - who knows if she doesn't do the same with the others after the end of the story, but there's reference to Crest research continuing afterwards in a few of the epilogue pages, so I doubt it.
That’s what I was thinking. Lysithea and Hanneman’s ending on that route has her called as the Golden Child of Crestology years after he passes away, and that only makes sense if there’s still crests to study.

Is Hanneman's ending the same no matter your route? In Blue Lions, his ending is that he invents tools that can be used the same as the relics yet without crests, allowing people to stop using relics nearly as much.

Hanneman Route when? Science rules!
Paired endings will muck with things, but that generally sounds like what Hanneman wants to do regardless of route. He hates the society that overvalues people with crests, and has devoted his life to them in the hopes of equalizing things
 

Castile

Member
Dec 1, 2017
3,296
Why are people bringing up that the crest problem will still linger on in other routes when both Lineharth and Hannerman both discover a way to add or remove them in their endings. Fuck, even if they die in GD Claude still finds a person in another country to cure Lysithea in their ending.
 

Poodlestrike

There is much talk, and I have listened...
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,120
Why are people bringing up that the crest problem will still linger on in other routes when both Lineharth and Hannerman both discover a way to add or remove them in their endings. Fuck, even if they die in GD Claude still finds a person in another country to cure Lysithea in their ending.
They find somebody who can fix her lifespan - did that explicitly entail removing her crests?
 

Xeteh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,903
They find somebody who can fix her lifespan - did that explicitly entail removing her crests?
Its at the very least alluded to that if she were to live beyond her shortened lifespan she'd lose the crests and "become useless to everyone".

Two of the three endings with Byleth x Lysithea mention they're removed too.

S0 announced EK00hisEL00herEM00 engagement to Lysithea \nshortly after becoming leader of the United Kingdom\nof Fódlan. Before they were officially wed, she returned\nhome, helped her father to restore Ordelia territory, and\noffered the land up to be governed directly by the new\nkingdom. Once the affairs of House Ordelia were in\norder, Lysithea finally married and became queen. Even\nwithout her Crests, she proved more than capable in the\nrole, applying her great insight and intelligence toward a\nbetter Fódlan. When the rebuilding effort was complete,\nthe couple and their children enjoyed long and\npeaceful lives.

S0 announced EK00hisEL00herEM00 engagement to Lysithea \nshortly after being named archbishop of the Church of\nSeiros. Before they were officially wed, she returned home,\nhelped her father to restore Ordelia territory, and offered\nthe land up to be governed by neighboring lords. Once her\nparents had retired and withdrawn, Lysithea finally\nbecame the archbishop's wife. Even without her Crests,\nshe proved more than capable of assisting him in his role,\napplying her great insight and intelligence toward a\nrenewed church. Once the rebuilding effort was complete,\nthe couple and their two children enjoyed long and\npeaceful lives in the lively household they built together.

Sorry for the formatting, its how its written on this pastebin of character endings.
 

Terraforce

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
8,883
Is Hanneman's ending the same no matter your route? In Blue Lions, his ending is that he invents tools that can be used the same as the relics yet without crests, allowing people to stop using relics nearly as much.

Hanneman Route when? Science rules!
In my BL playthrough he joined the Empire and died wishing he could continue his work. It was my first playthrough and I didn't think the professors that didn't join you would ally with the opposition.
 

Morlas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,084
i'm pretty sure hanneman and manuela never show up again if you don't recruit them in Edelgard's route
 

Poodlestrike

There is much talk, and I have listened...
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,120
Its at the very least alluded to that if she were to live beyond her shortened lifespan she'd lose the crests and "become useless to everyone".

Two of the three endings with Byleth x Lysithea mention they're removed too.

S0 announced EK00hisEL00herEM00 engagement to Lysithea \nshortly after becoming leader of the United Kingdom\nof Fódlan. Before they were officially wed, she returned\nhome, helped her father to restore Ordelia territory, and\noffered the land up to be governed directly by the new\nkingdom. Once the affairs of House Ordelia were in\norder, Lysithea finally married and became queen. Even\nwithout her Crests, she proved more than capable in the\nrole, applying her great insight and intelligence toward a\nbetter Fódlan. When the rebuilding effort was complete,\nthe couple and their children enjoyed long and\npeaceful lives.

S0 announced EK00hisEL00herEM00 engagement to Lysithea \nshortly after being named archbishop of the Church of\nSeiros. Before they were officially wed, she returned home,\nhelped her father to restore Ordelia territory, and offered\nthe land up to be governed by neighboring lords. Once her\nparents had retired and withdrawn, Lysithea finally\nbecame the archbishop's wife. Even without her Crests,\nshe proved more than capable of assisting him in his role,\napplying her great insight and intelligence toward a\nrenewed church. Once the rebuilding effort was complete,\nthe couple and their two children enjoyed long and\npeaceful lives in the lively household they built together.

Sorry for the formatting, its how its written on this pastebin of character endings.
Blue Lions Lysithea/Linhardt unambiguously states that her crests are successfully removed
Alright, good for her.
 

Apollo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,505
Edelgard’s supports are amazing with both of them, I really recommend checking them out
 

Quinton

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,881
The Research Triangle
I know this is more of a gameplay question but I’m right near the end of my first file (BE-C!) so I don’t mind speaking spoilers.

Is there any “postgame” to speak of at this time? I figure maybe that’ll be something patched in later. I know it’s all the rage right now to get our bellies full on alternate routes — I’m excited for the Blue Lions! — but I’ve already logged 110 hours with the game so I’m going to chip away at this first file some more if there’s any content worth chipping over and then put the game down for a couple of months before moving over to Dimitriville.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,312
I know this is more of a gameplay question but I’m right near the end of my first file (BE-C!) so I don’t mind speaking spoilers.

Is there any “postgame” to speak of at this time? I figure maybe that’ll be something patched in later. I know it’s all the rage right now to get our bellies full on alternate routes — I’m excited for the Blue Lions! — but I’ve already logged 110 hours with the game so I’m going to chip away at this first file some more if there’s any content worth chipping over and then put the game down for a couple of months before moving over to Dimitriville.
No postgame beyond NG+.
 

Lunar15

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,457
Change back?

Honestly I dunno if that's even possible without getting beaten, she's pretty far gone at that point. Doubt there really was a plan beyond "don't lose."
Actually this pissed me off in the BL route, mainly because it doesn't seem like that concept is even fully explored in her own route, but as Blue Lions you just have to sit there and go "who the fuck were those guys?" Obviously it's TWSITD, but I have a feeling no other route has her being pumped up into a monster??

If they had taken any pains to explore that even SLIGHTLY in Dimitri's route, it would have been more satisfying.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,892
Barcelona
Is there any “postgame” to speak of at this time?
No, when you end the last map you can't do anything else, as the game is lineal all the optional content is featured chapter to chapter.

There's NG+ though, you carry your battalions, statue level and reputation to the next run, and you can buy professor levels, weapon levels, relation levels... with reputation, so you can begin at a high professor level and have more activity points from the start, and if you improve a statue a lot you can obtain exp boosts and improved max stats.
 

Quinton

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,881
The Research Triangle
No, when you end the last map you can't do anything else, as the game is lineal all the optional content is featured chapter to chapter.

There's NG+ though, you carry your battalions, statue level and reputation to the next run, and you can buy professor levels, weapon levels, relation levels... with reputation, so you can begin at a high professor level and have more activity points from the start, and if you improve a statue a lot you can obtain exp boosts and improved max stats.
That’s fairly comprehensive, damn! I guess my Blue Lions file is gonna feature one packed crew. Good luck with that plan of yours, Edelgard! I’m in ya rival house, stealin’ ya class...!
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,876
No, when you end the last map you can't do anything else, as the game is lineal all the optional content is featured chapter to chapter.

There's NG+ though, you carry your battalions, statue level and reputation to the next run, and you can buy professor levels, weapon levels, relation levels... with reputation, so you can begin at a high professor level and have more activity points from the start, and if you improve a statue a lot you can obtain exp boosts and improved max stats.
fuck I wasted all of my renown on statue updates. I hope I can still carry over my prof level.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,892
Barcelona
fuck I wasted all of my renown on statue updates. I hope I can still carry over my prof level.
It's 500 points per level, and you can go from E to E+ during the first day, so you don't need to spend renown for this one. And as statue level carries from your first run, you now will start with higher skill gains, which makes easier to reach the Master classes.

I mean, statues can't be maxed during the first run, and the two last tiers are godlike: 10% exp (40% total) and +5 to all the maximum stats. I'm sure that you can play NG++, NG+++ etc... and that every new run will be easier (which is bad, the game is not hard at all even at max. difficulty settings). It's a shame that the first difficulty upgrade will be at the end of the year.
 
Last edited:

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,892
Barcelona
As we're using this thread as kind of a spoiler thread, let me specualte about the 3 DLC remaining waves:

Wave 2: Additional Auxiliary battle maps, helpful in-game support items, and more will be released by Oct. 31.
I'm sure this means exp-boosting maps (all the 3DS games have this kind of shit), gold-farming maps.... The support items sound like support-boosting presents or blacksmith materials, maybe even food, seals.... "And more" I wonder what can be, maybe some new activity for the monastery, like a new way to teach non-weapon skills to Byleth. Maybe petting dogs/cats give you charm.

Wave 3: Additional quests and costumes, plus a free update, will be released by Dec. 31.
Additional quests sounds like monastery quests, so it sounds like more ways to obtain reputation. I wonder about costumes, as the game has a ton of characters I don't think we will get specific costumes, more likely it will be generic costumes for all the characters. The free update will be Lunatic I think.

Wave 4: New story content, with additional playable characters, locations and more, plus a free update, will be released by April 30, 2020.
New story can be either a prequel (there's enough lore) or an alternate, shorter route. As the game has a rich lore, I don't think this will be characters from other Fire Emblem games like what they did with some 3DS FE DLCs. The new locations detail makes me thing tha the new campaign will have a new explorable area, as new maps should be the minimun they create (it's a 25 € season pass and the previous content doesn't seem that relevant). The free update seems to be the Infernal mode.

Overall, I don't think that more exp, items, gold or renown is needed, as the game is fairly easy even in hard and the harder modes will come later, so I'm not that hyped about "helpful" content. Costumes and quests are nice, but I hope they focus all the effort in a good, meaning campaign that has lots of new content, I think that the game re-uses maps enough during the existing routes.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,130
It's 500 points per level, and you can go from E to E+ during the first day, so you don't need to spend renown for this one. And as statue level carries from your first run, you now will start with higher skill gains, which makes easier to reach the Master classes.

I mean, statues can't be maxed during the first run, and the two last tiers are godlike: 10% exp (40% total) and +5 to all the maximum stats. I'm sure that you can play NG++, NG+++ etc... and that every new run will be easier (which is bad, the game is not hard at all even at max. difficulty settings). It's a shame that the first difficulty upgrade will be at the end of the year.
I would say +5 to maximum stats is a really bad upgrade in the current game. You need to farm an enormous amount to hit caps. I've S+ every skill in one file on byleth and wasn't even close to hitting stat cap(stats were in the ~40 so at lowest 15 points away from a cap without the upgrade) on any attribute for byleth. And well you can only farm on normal anyway so it's doubly useless.

It's going to get super value once infernal hits and that mode is really about facing off against level 99 enemies but currently it's very skippable.

I want to believe lunatic/maddening will be sooner and just isn't mentioned in that plan above but maybe I'm lying to myself.
 

Poodlestrike

There is much talk, and I have listened...
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,120
As we're using this thread as kind of a spoiler thread, let me specualte about the 3 DLC remaining waves:

Wave 2: Additional Auxiliary battle maps, helpful in-game support items, and more will be released by Oct. 31.
I'm sure this means exp-boosting maps (all the 3DS games have this kind of shit), gold-farming maps.... The support items sound like support-boosting presents or blacksmith materials, maybe even food, seals.... "And more" I wonder what can be, maybe some new activity for the monastery, like a new way to teach non-weapon skills to Byleth. Maybe petting dogs/cats give you charm.

Wave 3: Additional quests and costumes, plus a free update, will be released by Dec. 31.
Additional quests sounds like monastery quests, so it sounds like more ways to obtain reputation. I wonder about costumes, as the game has a ton of characters I don't think we will get specific costumes, more likely it will be generic costumes for all the characters. The free update will be Lunatic I think.

Wave 4: New story content, with additional playable characters, locations and more, plus a free update, will be released by April 30, 2020.
New story can be either a prequel (there's enough lore) or an alternate, shorter route. As the game has a rich lore, I don't think this will be characters from other Fire Emblem games like what they did with some 3DS FE DLCs. The new locations detail makes me thing tha the new campaign will have a new explorable area, as new maps should be the minimun they create (it's a 25 € season pass and the previous content doesn't seem that relevant). The free update seems to be the Infernal mode.

Overall, I don't think that more exp, items, gold or renown is needed, as the game is fairly easy even in hard and the harder modes will come later, so I'm not that hyped about "helpful" content. Costumes and quests are nice, but I hope they focus all the effort in a good, meaning campaign that has lots of new content, I think that the game re-uses maps enough during the existing routes.
I think I'm a little more hyped for the extra auxiliary maps than you are. It's possible they'll all be crappy farming maps, but additional normal maps added to the regular rotation would go a long ways, and I could see that being included.
 

batfax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,370
Why are people bringing up that the crest problem will still linger on in other routes when both Lineharth and Hannerman both discover a way to add or remove them in their endings. Fuck, even if they die in GD Claude still finds a person in another country to cure Lysithea in their ending.
Claude's final battle is literally destroying all the people who the crests originated from! He even has a line for fighting the original Reigan. The symbolism is about as subtle as Flayn's craving for fish.
 

NSESN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,735
Claude's final battle is literally destroying all the people who the crests originated from! He even has a line for fighting the original Reigan. The symbolism is about as subtle as Flayn's craving for fish.
That and the fact that in a lot of moments in different routes it is stated that his and Edegard goals arent so different
 

Apollo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,505
There are a number of people in each house with fairly progressive views on crests and nobility, to say nothing of Byleth herself, who end up in varying positions of power after the events of different routes. Edelgard’s path is probably the quickest and most direct way to achieving lasting change on that front, but I‘d imagine that things do get better on each route.
 

SliceSabre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,717
True Claude and Edelgard do have similar goals. The biggest differences is Claude didn't believe that path needed to be soaked with the blood of friends and innocents nor did he view the Church as something that needed to be destroyed and utterly ripped out of society, weakened certainly but not destroyed because at the end of it all in the GD route the church still existed it just wasn't as powerful.
 

Poodlestrike

There is much talk, and I have listened...
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,120
Talking about things getting better on each route as a way of saying that Edelgard's actions weren't necessary is a little... empty, honestly, considering that in all routes her actions still massively disrupt the status quo, creating the circumstances where radical reform is possible. Dimitri could probably have done some "good king" stuff, kind the commoners, all that, but no big stuff, and definitely no church reform. Claude has loftier ideals, but no plan to actually accomplish any of it, and ultimately views a lot of what people care about in the game as just being Fodlan problems, so I kind of doubt he does much of anything that causes pushback. Edelgard has the most radical vision of change, and the most will to actually get it done, come hell or high water.

In a weird way, despite Edelgard and Dimitri being so closely intertwined, it's Claude who presents the better foil. Edelgard is willing to risk going too far if it means accomplishing her goals, Claude isn't willing to go nearly far enough. As we basically see in Edelgard's route, a melded approach where Edel is tempered and focused rather than going all-out could do it, so it'd be nice if they could put their heads together.
 

Basileus777

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,213
New Jersey
Some of the dialogue here is in pretty anachronistic terms. Like talking about Edelgard's dictatorship like a centralized state wasn't better for people in pre-modern times than rule by locale magnates. The empire's bureaucracy post-game is likely to be far better for everyone than how the crest nobility was governing.
 

HBK

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,476
I think I'm a little more hyped for the extra auxiliary maps than you are. It's possible they'll all be crappy farming maps, but additional normal maps added to the regular rotation would go a long ways, and I could see that being included.
That’s actually what I understand by reading the description. But you never know 🤷‍♀️
 

DeusOcha

Member
Oct 25, 2017
847
SoCal, US
Alright time to post my overall thoughts upon finishing the Black Eagles/Crimson Flower route.

Overall I really enjoyed this story, one of the best I've experienced in my history of gaming rivaling the likes of BioWare's Mass Effect and Dragon Age (though BioWare's more modern creations might not hold much water, I reference the older titles) in not only the structure of narrative but character interaction/bonding as well. Atop that, though it may be just me, such an excellent piece of work is all within a Fire Emblem title of all things on my portable handheld Nintendo Switch. That's not to say the story's without flaws however.

One of my main critiques of this route is the lack of dialogue, note I said dialogue not choice. Regarding choice the game is rather streamlined and that's fine, but upon the fork in the road determining if you go Crimson Flower or Church paths the general mindset (or atleast mine) is that you're not comfortable with either choice. I eventually went with Edelgard/Crimson Flower over the Church because despite Edelgard's flaws/poor decision making it paled to comparison to how shifty Rhea was at that point of the game which only had grown bit by bit since her already-shifty beginning at the start. But even if I preferred Edelgard, I noticed there was a lack of dialogue to bring closure between the "betrayal drama" regarding Jeralt's death (since TWSITD did it, ally of convenience with Edelgard), the betrayal/surprise attack itself, and potential bonding over getting over that hurdle/closure. Thankfully such a closure isn't totally ignored (Hubert gives minor exposition referencing Jeralt's death), but the lack of it coming from Edelgard directly until the literal end of the game is kind of a bummer.

Additionally another major critique is the lack of Sothis post-timeskip in Part 2. Like she's the character/reason why Part 2 starts off in the first place in forcing Byleth to wake up. The very least I'd like her opinion on whatever path Byleth took/continued during Part 2 before the game ended. Or is this a thing with all routes in that Sothis is nowhere to be seen in Part 2?

And one really minor critique is the Death Knight plotline. Apparently I've been notified it was some Imperial general and I really wanted to unearth said identity especially when the battle right before the timeskip the dude comes in and starts helping you with Edelgard shouting to trust her and "there would be a time for questions later". Well apparently there was no time for questions because I didn't recruit the right people to actually play the paralogue. Bit of a bummer, but I kinda expected the Death Knight background would be explored by default due to Edelgard shouting that in the middle of a climatic battle.

Anyways, as for what I enjoyed about this story and why. A personal bias (and Japanese storytelling trope I enjoy) is the tearing down of old corrupt/flawed institutions (commonly religious ones) in replacement for a new one. And not only did this game deliver on that but also made sure to highlight the major flaws of undergoing on such a path with being forced to accept the continued ally of convenience that is TWSITD (who killed Jeralt/your dad), having to make a reactive decision between Rhea/Edelgard, and, most of all, having to cut down your own students that didn't have the fortune to be directly under your school House or simply had (valid) uncompromising viewpoints. In general, the feel of accepting the path you already started while doing everything in your power to hold it together/cause the least amount of potential damage is a gripping one, atleast for me. Absolutely loved it.

I heard this Black Eagles route/Crimson Flower is the shortest route being only 18 chapters (while others gets around ~20ish) but even then I felt the last 3-4 Chapters were a bit pushing it due to having to "wander the Monastery" while the literal world was on fire. Regardless, even if it was apparently the shortest, I still enjoyed it a lot. I do hope that other routes, even if longer, carry the same amount of enjoyment!

And finally, I just want to highlight I absolutely adored being able to experience such a wonderful game on a simple handheld device that is the Switch; never have I experience a gripping game narrative rivaling that of classic RPGs like Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Divinity: Original Sin, etc. that wasn't on my PC. Props to both Nintendo and Intelligent Systems for innovating/changing up the gaming industry.
 

Apollo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,505
Dimitri could probably have done some "good king" stuff, kind the commoners, all that, but no big stuff, and definitely no church reform.
This is absolutely false. In his solo ending, he institutes a new form of government that allows any citizen to be an active participant. In his and Dedue’s ending, it says that one of his many achievements as king was total reconciliation with the people of Duscur, something it calls an “extraordinary effort”. Dimitri is a hardline anti-oppression character, and just about everything he does is, as he says, to put an end to the cycle of the strong trampling the weak. Edelgard’s war doesn’t change this. And considering Rhea steps down as archbishop and is replaced by his bestie Byleth, there’s no chance the church doesn’t change. And the game says as much in his and Byleth’s romantic ending, which says that the two fight hard to reform both church and state.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,802
One of my main critiques of this route is the lack of dialogue, note I said dialogue not choice. Regarding choice the game is rather streamlined and that's fine, but upon the fork in the road determining if you go Crimson Flower or Church paths the general mindset (or atleast mine) is that you're not comfortable with either choice. I eventually went with Edelgard/Crimson Flower over the Church because despite Edelgard's flaws/poor decision making it paled to comparison to how shifty Rhea was at that point of the game which only had grown bit by bit since her already-shifty beginning at the start. But even if I preferred Edelgard, I noticed there was a lack of dialogue to bring closure between the "betrayal drama" regarding Jeralt's death (since TWSITD did it, ally of convenience with Edelgard), the betrayal/surprise attack itself, and potential bonding over getting over that hurdle/closure. Thankfully such a closure isn't totally ignored (Hubert gives minor exposition referencing Jeralt's death), but the lack of it coming from Edelgard directly until the literal end of the game is kind of a bummer.
This. This so much.
Honestly why I liked pre-timeskip more than post-timeskip. Other than the chapters immediately after the timeskip happens, the rest of the post-timeskip chapters are pretty quiet in that you just get a couple of minutes of dialogue between the beginning and end of the chapter, being unfortunately similar to how Fates and Awakening were. I think this is because the entirety of the post-timeskip was pretty much you going with whatever group you chose directly from Point A to Point B (the ending) and nothing else.

It wouldn't even be as noticeable of an issue were it not for the fact that pre-timeskip, conversations between the entire game's cast were abundant, and there were so many unique moments. Post-timeskip really felt like the game was saying, "Alright, let's get this over with," as it marched towards the end.
 

NSESN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,735
I think claiming that Edelgard's actions were necessary is easy when you can't know what would happen if she did nothing because she starts a war no matter the route.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,312
I think claiming that Edelgard's actions were necessary is easy when you can't know what would happen if she did nothing because she starts a war no matter the route.
If she did nothing? I mean, there's a thousand years of relative status quo to judge from there. The Church's influence permeated the land -- constricting its rulers, violently eliminating the slightest opposition, manipulating the populace, etc.

It's easy to understand why Edelgard viewed her revolution as mandatory, at the very least.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,802
If she did nothing? I mean, there's a thousand years of relative status quo to judge from there. The Church's influence permeated the land -- constricting its rulers, violently eliminating the slightest opposition, manipulating the populace, etc.

It's easy to understand why Edelgard viewed her revolution as mandatory, at the very least.
This is kind of where I'm at. Rhea/Seiros really lived for so long and during that entire time she just enforced strict rule on civilians instead of, you know, dealing with the actual bad guys who ended up infiltrating every society on the continent as a result of her inaction, including her own organization.
 

DeusOcha

Member
Oct 25, 2017
847
SoCal, US
It also doesn't help you're exposed early on to Rhea's ease of zealotry, such as executing dissident priests, telling you to hide info from students (who directly participated in fights where info is relevant), and constant mantras of "not pointing swords to the heavens".