Fire Emblem: Three Houses Plot, Characters and routes discussion thread (Open Spoilers)

[Apollo]

Prior to Edelgard starting a war though, we also have an unbeatable magic Professor, countless students negatively influenced by the status quo eager to change things, and the future rulers of every continent of the nation attending school together at the same time, each of those rulers possessing a very strong desire to institute reform. And two of those rulers are siblings and friends. Change was absolutely possible even without a war. Guaranteed? No, but the pieces were in play in a way that I don't think any previous generation would have been able to say the same of.

 

[NSESN]

If she did nothing? I mean, there's a thousand years of relative status quo to judge from there. The Church's influence permeated the land -- constricting its rulers, violently eliminating the slightest opposition, manipulating the populace, etc.

It's easy to understand why Edelgard viewed her revolution as mandatory, at the very least.

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I understand why she thinks she needs to act, i just disagree that war was the only option

Prior to Edelgard starting a war though, we also have an unbeatable magic Professor, countless students negatively influenced by the status quo eager to change things, and the future rulers of every continent of the nation attending school together at the same time, each of those rulers possessing a very strong desire to institute reform. And two of those rulers are siblings and friends. Change was absolutely possible even without a war. Guaranteed? No, but the pieces were in play in a way that I don't think any previous generation would have been able to say the same of.

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Exactly.
Also nothing stops Edelgard from starting a war after she tries a more diplomatic approach

 

[Disclaimer]

Prior to Edelgard starting a war though, we also have an unbeatable magic Professor, countless students negatively influenced by the status quo eager to change things, and the future rulers of every continent of the nation attending school together at the same time, each of those rulers possessing a very strong desire to institute reform. And two of those rulers are siblings and friends. Change was absolutely possible even without a war. Guaranteed? No, but the pieces were in play in a way that I don't think any previous generation would have been able to say the same of.

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It's clear that every generation of nobility has suffered from the crest eugenics, not just this current one. If change was never successful prior to this -- because, again, the Church was virtually all-powerful, ruled by immortal beings -- why would it be successful now? The Church had a vicegrip on culture, on religion, on recorded history, on international military, on the entire noble caste's upbringing.

All three lords are eager to reform some things, but in conflicting ways, and Edelgard's version -- the most extreme, the most empowering of the commonfolk -- would never have been accepted by the Church or nobility alike.

Guaranteed reform was what was required, from her perspective. Half measures had the potential to doom any and all change, since the opponent in this case was an uncompromising immortal pope with all of the above power.

 

[Parshias]

War is inevitable because neither side could conceivably be budged from their positions.

There is no way Edelgard would settle for anything short of destroying crests.

Similarly, Rhea would never allow her mother's crest to be destroyed.

Sure, Edelgard being more open might lead to her gaining more allies than before. But then you're just shuffling up the teams in the war. Instead of Edelgard/TWSITD vs. Church/Kingdom vs. Alliance it would be Edelgard/Kingdom/Alliance vs. Church vs. TWSITD still probably. And there would probably be splits across some of the nations as some nobles would remain with the Church or would already be controlled by TWSITD.

The only way this is ever going to end is with either Edelgard or Rhea dead. Neither of them were ever going to budge.

 

[Deleted member 35077]

Claude's final battle is literally destroying all the people who the crests originated from! He even has a line for fighting the original Reigan. The symbolism is about as subtle as Flayn's craving for fish.

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Talking about the Slither I still can't get over the fact that Edelgard basically did nothing to them in her route. An afterthought compare to her conquest, and as result it resulted to them being a full power when she finally decided to confront them. A bad decision, as it basically led to a second long war that they needed to deal with if we go by her house endings.

 

[NSESN]

It's clear that every generation of nobility has suffered from the crest eugenics, not just this current one. If change was never successful prior to this -- because, again, the Church was virtually all-powerful, ruled by immortal beings -- why would it be successful now? The Church had a vicegrip on culture, on religion, on recorded history, on international military, on the entire noble caste's upbringing.

All three lords are eager to reform some things, but in conflicting ways, and Edelgard's version -- the most extreme, the most empowering of the commonfolk -- would never have been accepted by the Church or nobility alike.

Guaranteed reform was what was required, from her perspective. Half measures had the potential to doom any and all change, since the opponent in this case was an uncompromising immortal pope with all of the above power.

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I think you are making Rhea more powerful than she really is.

War is inevitable because neither side could conceivably be budged from their positions.

There is no way Edelgard would settle for anything short of destroying crests.

Similarly, Rhea would never allow her mother's crest to be destroyed.

Sure, Edelgard being more open might lead to her gaining more allies than before. But then you're just shuffling up the teams in the war. Instead of Edelgard/TWSITD vs. Church/Kingdom vs. Alliance it would be Edelgard/Kingdom/Alliance vs. Church vs. TWSITD still probably. And there would probably be splits across some of the nations as some nobles would remain with the Church or would already be controlled by TWSITD.

The only way this is ever going to end is with either Edelgard or Rhea dead. Neither of them were ever going to budge.

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True, I agree that for Edelgard war was the only option, not because it really was the only option, but because she is too short sighted to see other options

Talking about the Slither I still can't get over the fact the Edelgard basically did nothing to them in her route. An afterthought compare to her conquest, and as result it resulted to them being a full power when she finally decided to confront them. A bad decision, as it basically led to a second long war that they needed to deal with if we go by her house endings.

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Good point too. Sure she(or better yet Hubert) won in the end. But what if she lost? She killed everyone else that could protect humanity from TWS

 

[Apollo]

It's clear that every generation of nobility has suffered from the crest eugenics, not just this current one. If change was never successful prior to this -- because, again, the Church was virtually all-powerful, ruled by immortal beings -- why would it be successful now? The Church had a vicegrip on culture, on religion, on recorded history, on international military, on the entire noble caste's upbringing.

All three lords are eager to reform some things, but in conflicting ways, and Edelgard's version -- the most extreme, the most empowering of the commonfolk -- would never have been accepted by the Church or nobility alike.

Guaranteed reform was what was required, from her perspective. Half measures had the potential to doom any and all change, since the opponent in this case was an uncompromising immortal pope with all of the above power.

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For one, I've already pointed out that all three heirs are classmates in the same year. Two of them have a strong relationship as childhood friends and siblings. The nations of Fodlan have never had such a strong opportunity for friendship- things were probably quite tense between the Kingdom and the Empire when the former split from the latter, and the same could be said for the Alliance and the Kingdom when they split apart. A few hundreds years have passed, and as the narrator says at the beginning of the game, the continent has settled into an era of peace. Diplomacy is absolutely an option.

And I think there's waaaay more overlap between the goals of the lords than you're insinuating. Claude is blatantly distrustful of the church from very early on in his route. Dimitri's primary policy goal is ending the oppression of the weak in any form (I mentioned this a few posts ago, but Dimitri literally goes on to institute a democracy in his ending).

War is inevitable because neither side could conceivably be budged from their positions.

There is no way Edelgard would settle for anything short of destroying crests.

Similarly, Rhea would never allow her mother's crest to be destroyed.

Sure, Edelgard being more open might lead to her gaining more allies than before. But then you're just shuffling up the teams in the war. Instead of Edelgard/TWSITD vs. Church/Kingdom vs. Alliance it would be Edelgard/Kingdom/Alliance vs. Church vs. TWSITD still probably. And there would probably be splits across some of the nations as some nobles would remain with the Church or would already be controlled by TWSITD.

The only way this is ever going to end is with either Edelgard or Rhea dead. Neither of them were ever going to budge.

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Crests aren't literally destroyed in Edelgard's route, and the various characters from each route who take issue with crests go on to bring about reform in that regard regardless of path (like in Sylvain and Mercedes' ending). Those who have issues with crests are present throughout the cast of the game, which is a big part of why I think crest-related reform is absolutely in store for every route, not just Edelgard's. And I don't think Edelgard starting a war has any bearing on the likelihood of that reform.

 

[Deleted member 17627]

At this point the lack of information in certain periods of time, as well as what we got from the game itself, make it so everything is just a hypothetical.

I really hope we did get a True Ending DLC path and the DLC that we get isn't some sort of prequel.

 

[DeusOcha]

At this point the lack of information in certain periods of time, as well as what we got from the game itself, make it so everything is just a hypothetical.

I really hope we did get a True Ending DLC path and the DLC that we get isn't some sort of prequel.

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I rather not as that opens the possibility of Fates 2.0 where previous paths were struck down leaving a bad taste in many people's (and my own) mouths.

 

[Deleted member 17627]

I rather not as that opens the possibility of Fates 2.0 where previous paths were struck down leaving a bad taste in many people's (and my own) mouths.

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I think Revelations had a lot of other problems other than making a definite path, namely, "YOU'RE POSSESSED! YOU'RE POSSESSED! EVERYBODY'S POSSESSED!"

 

[DeusOcha]

I think Revelations had a lot of other problems other than making a definite path, namely, "YOU'RE POSSESSED! YOU'RE POSSESSED! EVERYBODY'S POSSESSED!"

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But even then, on principle I'm against advertising a story based on multiple routes with their respective narratives tailored to being the correct, or at the very least, valid one, then later on just scrapping that and shoving a forth a "true" one. Atop that, I think it does a disservice because I feel that a giant/core theme of this game that each route has consequences that the player must comes to terms with.

 

[LunaSerena]

I think Revelations had a lot of other problems other than making a definite path, namely, "YOU'RE POSSESSED! YOU'RE POSSESSED! EVERYBODY'S POSSESSED!"

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It had a lot of problems, but yeah, locking the true, happy ending behind a paywall when the game supposedly was all about the impact of your choice and the inevitable war that would follow was scummy.
Not all games need a true ending. Three Houses is one of those - a true ending where everyone is friends with each other kind of takes from the impact of "hey, war is horrible no matter the reason, and it's so cruel that you'll have to kill your former classmates or be killed yourself".

 

[Terraforce]

I think Revelations had a lot of other problems other than making a definite path, namely, "YOU'RE POSSESSED! YOU'RE POSSESSED! EVERYBODY'S POSSESSED!"

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I legit felt like I was playing a poorly written fanfic playing that. You have to try hard to make writing as bad as Revelations.

I rather not as that opens the possibility of Fates 2.0 where previous paths were struck down leaving a bad taste in many people's (and my own) mouths.

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We already know what DLC is announced will be separate from the three paths. If there were ever True Ending DLC, it would be announced after the intial season pass, which seems unlikely.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

It had a lot of problems, but yeah, locking the true, happy ending behind a paywall when the game supposedly was all about the impact of your choice and the inevitable war that would follow was scummy.
Not all games need a true ending. Three Houses is one of those - a true ending where everyone is friends with each other kind of takes from the impact of "hey, war is horrible no matter the reason, and it's so cruel that you'll have to kill your former classmates or be killed yourself".

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I don't really need a true ending happy route, but I'd take something that feels less contrived than the entirety of edelgard's war, there are some decent concepts there, but the game just comes off so unsatisfying in every route, and I blame the majority of that on edelgard's character. Well probably not the majority of it, the majority is just leaving too many questions in each individual route for any to feel satisfying

 

[Admiral Woofington]

meet me halfway. No happy ending DLC route.

But what about a DLC route you don't choose a class and instead become Professor Byleth, of the fish. All you do is fish.

 

[batfax]

meet me halfway. No happy ending DLC route.

But what about a DLC route you don't choose a class and instead become Professor Byleth, of the fish. All you do is fish.

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Every map is just defending the church against invaders who want to occupy it during the war. Not because you believe in the church, or want to protect anyone who lives there, but because it hosts your favorite fishing spot and it'll be a cold day in Hell before anyone takes that spot away from you.

 

[spiritfox]

I think my problem with the endings is that there's too many "hey we fixed the Crest issue" endings which makes a mockery of Edelgard's war. I guess we need happy endings for everyone, but when the main reason for the war is resolved in a text box in the epilogue it makes the whole thing pretty pointless.

If they wanted to use this game as an example of the futility of revolutionary change they've succeeded.

 

[SaidTheTickTockMan]

This is absolutely false. In his solo ending, he institutes a new form of government that allows any citizen to be an active participant. In his and Dedue's ending, it says that one of his many achievements as king was total reconciliation with the people of Duscur, something it calls an "extraordinary effort". Dimitri is a hardline anti-oppression character, and just about everything he does is, as he says, to put an end to the cycle of the strong trampling the weak. Edelgard's war doesn't change this. And considering Rhea steps down as archbishop and is replaced by his bestie Byleth, there's no chance the church doesn't change. And the game says as much in his and Byleth's romantic ending, which says that the two fight hard to reform both church and state.

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I understand why she thinks she needs to act, i just disagree that war was the only option

Exactly.
Also nothing stops Edelgard from starting a war after she tries a more diplomatic approach

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I'm not an Edelgard fan (Golden Deer for life), but I do think war was necessary (just not conducted with Edelgard's ruthlessness). Dimitri and Claude both had good ideas-radical ideas, even-but their ability to implement them was almost certainly contingent on Edelgard's war massively weakening the church first. The Church was propping up both an ideology that favored nobility/crests (which would obstruct Dimitri's ability to bring about democracy) and an ideology of isolationism (getting in the way of Claude's dream of destroying borders). The church would almost certainly have opposed their ambitions had Edelgard not weakened them to the point of compromise.

 

[The Adder]

I'm not an Edelgard fan (Golden Deer for life), but I do think war was necessary (just not conducted with Edelgard's ruthlessness). Dimitri and Claude both had good ideas-radical ideas, even-but their ability to implement them was almost certainly contingent on Edelgard's war massively weakening the church first. The Church was propping up both an ideology that favored nobility/crests (which would obstruct Dimitri's ability to bring about democracy) and an ideology of isolationism (getting in the way of Claude's dream of destroying borders). The church would almost certainly have opposed their ambitions had Edelgard not weakened them to the point of compromise.

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Probably not, actually. Not only is the Church significantly less powerful than you're implying (it can't stand up to an assault by the Empire alone while housing the future leaders of the two other nations, it only has as much power as the three are willing to allow it), but Rhea was ready to hand the church over to Byleth.

War against some holdout hardliners? Probably a sure thing. But that's on a much smaller scale with a much more overwhelming (and thus less necessarily brutal) force. If Edelgard had been willing to try diplomacy, this ends with less bloodshed.

 

[suracity]

I disagree with the notion that each route needs all the answers or even the full picture

I started with BL as my first route and felt very satisfied. Supposedly BL is the one that lacks the most in terms of "big picture" stuff. But it complements with tons of personal intertwined stories and very solid kingdom backstory and local lore.
Dimitri, Dedue, Felix, Ingrid and Annette are deeply affected by the Tragedy; the Tragedy basically defined the current BL generation and it destroyed a culture and nation of Duscur and put Kingdom in perpetual turmoil.
Mercedes and Slyvain's life give you a good idea how crests negatively influence the society. In Slyvain's case it's more tragic not only because of his brother but also his family guards the northern border of the kingdom and there is constant conflict so power is not a luxury but a necessity.
Ashe's adopted father comes to story in the early part of the game and immediately make you question how just Church is.

And only in BL line you understand and realize the deep scar that tragedy left. In other routes people's understanding about tragedy basically will boil down to "a political incident in a foreign country" which is actually pretty realistic if you ask me.
BL line doesn't need tons of lore on the world to work because it functions as a self-contained story:
1. Tragedy happened in 5 years ago sets things in motion
2. Edelgard works with people who commits the crime + Edelgard starts a war

The second point alone is enough to drive BL line and it's OK to not understand Edelgard's motives. BL line even gives some hints about her grand scheme of things. But it is not and should not be the focus. BL route works because of the constant focus of its own plot thread.
In a way I appreciate how TH handles BL route, it's kinda like earth history, lookers-on see most of the game. Only you play all the routes (or read it online) you will be archaeologist, historian, and even judge as one. Even you have all the facts or contexts; you will still have your subjective opinions, like we all do now.

 

[HBK]

I think my problem with the endings is that there's too many "hey we fixed the Crest issue" endings which makes a mockery of Edelgard's war. I guess we need happy endings for everyone, but when the main reason for the war is resolved in a text box in the epilogue it makes the whole thing pretty pointless.

If they wanted to use this game as an example of the futility of revolutionary change they've succeeded.

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It's all possible because she started that war in the first place, so 🤷‍♀️

 

[Rommaz]

Quick question. Why doesn't the clone/corpse Nemesis wake up in BE-C route?

 

[spiritfox]

It's all possible because she started that war in the first place, so 🤷‍♀️

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Well Hanneman is going to discover a way to give people crests regardless of what happened, so yay?

 

[Kinsei]

Well Hanneman is going to discover a way to give people crests regardless of what happened, so yay?

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You really think Rhea wouldn't have put a stop to that? As long as she remained in control she would never allow people to get out of the tyranny of the crest system. Hanneman likely would have been branded a heretic and been executed.

 

[spiritfox]

You really think Rhea wouldn't have put a stop to that? As long as she remained in control she would never allow people to get out of the tyranny of the crest system. Hanneman likely would have been branded a heretic and been executed.

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Rhea doesn't care what people do with the crests. Her main concern is stopping people from advancing enough to wipe out humanity again, and giving everyone crests isn't going to do that. Have you seen her actually trying to impede Hanneman the whole time he's in the monastery?

 

[The Adder]

You really think Rhea wouldn't have put a stop to that? As long as she remained in control she would never allow people to get out of the tyranny of the crest system. Hanneman likely would have been branded a heretic and been executed.

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Much like Edelgard, you misunderstand the nature and history of crests if you think Rhea gives a damn about more people having them.

 

[Apollo]

Rhea doesn't care what people do with the crests. Her main concern is stopping people from advancing enough to wipe out humanity again, and giving everyone crests isn't going to do that. Have you seen her actually trying to impede Hanneman the whole time he's in the monastery?

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Yeah, it's also important to remember that Hanneman's entire life goal is to equalize the society that overvalues crests. This isn't some new thing he's dreamed up after the war, it's what he's been working on in Rhea's house for years. And it's something he's tripping over himself to talk with people about

I disagree with the notion that each route needs all the answers or even the full picture

I started with BL as my first route and felt very satisfied. Supposedly BL is the one that lacks the most in terms of "big picture" stuff. But it complements with tons of personal intertwined stories and very solid kingdom backstory and local lore.
Dimitri, Dedue, Felix, Ingrid and Annette are deeply affected by the Tragedy; the Tragedy basically defined the current BL generation and it destroyed a culture and nation of Duscur and put Kingdom in perpetual turmoil.
Mercedes and Slyvain's life give you a good idea how crests negatively influence the society. In Slyvain's case it's more tragic not only because of his brother but also his family guards the northern border of the kingdom and there is constant conflict so power is not a luxury but a necessity.
Ashe's adopted father comes to story in the early part of the game and immediately make you question how just Church is.

And only in BL line you understand and realize the deep scar that tragedy left. In other routes people's understanding about tragedy basically will boil down to "a political incident in a foreign country" which is actually pretty realistic if you ask me.
BL line doesn't need tons of lore on the world to work because it functions as a self-contained story:
1. Tragedy happened in 5 years ago sets things in motion
2. Edelgard works with people who commits the crime + Edelgard starts a war

The second point alone is enough to drive BL line and it's OK to not understand Edelgard's motives. BL line even gives some hints about her grand scheme of things. But it is not and should not be the focus. BL route works because of the constant focus of its own plot thread.
In a way I appreciate how TH handles BL route, it's kinda like earth history, lookers-on see most of the game. Only you play all the routes (or read it online) you will be archaeologist, historian, and even judge as one. Even you have all the facts or contexts; you will still have your subjective opinions, like we all do now.

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My own experience completely matched up with this. I've played BL, Edelgard's route and I'm deep into my GD playthrough, and it's in BL that the characters are most tied into and affected by the plot imo. A huuuuuge amount of the supports built upon the Tragedy and its aftermath as well, and there's not really a replacement for that with the other houses I've found?

I know BL route's way of doing things is not going to satisfy everybody, but it worked for me

 

[R.D.Blax]

You really think Rhea wouldn't have put a stop to that? As long as she remained in control she would never allow people to get out of the tyranny of the crest system. Hanneman likely would have been branded a heretic and been executed.

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I don't think she would have gotten rid of him for his research. On the other hand, keeping the ability to remove and give crest at will for the exclusive use of the church could have been a real possibility

 

[HBK]

Well Hanneman is going to discover a way to give people crests regardless of what happened, so yay?

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We can't know that for certain. In all routes Edelgard-sama wages war and that's what enables change. In her route, she achieves it herself. In other routes, others achieve it in her stead (with the help of sensei).

 

[Kinsei]

Much like Edelgard, you misunderstand the nature and history of crests if you think Rhea gives a damn about more people having them.

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Crests are such a convenient method of control that I don't see her giving up. Allowing potentially anyone to take a hero's relic and use it against the church is not something I imagine Rhea would be particularly fond of. As it is now it's (generally) crest = status and those with status send their heirs to Garreg Mach. A school where they drill into the heads of the students that any dissent against the church will result in death, to the point that they're willing to send students to kill their relatives.

 

[HBK]

Two small things I wanted to say.

1 / I'm genuinely surprised Byleth didn't "die" (or "vanish" or anything) a the end of BE-E. I mean it's not really unsurprising, but still, that didn't turn out exactly as I expected.

2 / It seems rule 133 doesn't totally apply to this game, which is surprising as it's one of the most common rule of all:

Last Rule of Politics
Kingdoms are good. Empires are evil.

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But then again there's also an Alliance in this game so ...

 

[Poodlestrike]

This is absolutely false. In his solo ending, he institutes a new form of government that allows any citizen to be an active participant. In his and Dedue's ending, it says that one of his many achievements as king was total reconciliation with the people of Duscur, something it calls an "extraordinary effort". Dimitri is a hardline anti-oppression character, and just about everything he does is, as he says, to put an end to the cycle of the strong trampling the weak. Edelgard's war doesn't change this. And considering Rhea steps down as archbishop and is replaced by his bestie Byleth, there's no chance the church doesn't change. And the game says as much in his and Byleth's romantic ending, which says that the two fight hard to reform both church and state.

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That's all stuff that happens after the status quo shift, though. Could he have done that if the existing structures hadn't gotten blown up? Or would he, like almost all rulers, have been constrained by the systems he was working with? In his route, most every noble is forcibly displaced by Edelgard. If he hadn't personally fought for and recovered their territories, would they have let his reforms fly? Would the Church have been down for more general control of government without his buddy as Archbishop, when one of Rhea's stated goals in all this was to keep humanity in Fodlan restrained?

Exactly.
Also nothing stops Edelgard from starting a war after she tries a more diplomatic approach

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Well, there's the fact that the people secretly in charge of the empire would kill her and also a solid chance that Rhea would do the same, but w/e.

 

[R.D.Blax]

You know, I just realized one the reason it was so hard for Edel and Co to get rid of TWSITD in their ending was probably because they never get close enough to them to learn about where Shambala is located.

By the way I find it funny that in the church or GD route Hubert tell Byleth about how to get rid of TWSITD, but not in BL.

 

[Deleted member 32822]

So...I beat Edelgard's good ending. What ever happened to the evil old sorcerer that appears before the time skip? And the "slither" people? They never made an appearance again.

Is that what the dlc is going to be?

 

[Biestmann]

I actually think that the big reforms that happen in the ending's flavor texts should have been largely reserved for Edelgard's route. Reform is the whole theme of her campaign and conquest after all. Dimitri's shouldn't have led to any large changes concerning the church and he stayed a conservative traditionalist. That way the moral duality between both routes would have been much more interesting. One person that achieves great change by terrible means, and one that keeps the status quo as a mere defender. But as things are, Dimitri achieves the same as Edelgard more or less, and with a clear conscience at that. It's just not that interesting.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

I actually think that the big reforms that happen in the ending's flavor texts should have been largely reserved for Edelgard's route. Reform is the whole theme of her campaign and conquest after all. Dimitri's shouldn't have led to any large changes concerning the church and he stayed a conservative traditionalist. That way the moral duality between both routes would have been much more interesting. One person that achieves great change by terrible means, and one that keeps the status quo as a mere defender. But as things are, Dimitri achieves the same as Edelgard more or less, and with a clear conscience at that. It's just not that interesting.

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And claude accomplishes even more with an even cleaner conscience.

 

[Biestmann]

And claude accomplishes even more with an even cleaner conscience.

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Yep. Although he is so far removed from the conflict between Edelgard and Dimitri that I don't really have any qualms with him doing so.

 

[SliceSabre]

I think they did the endings that way to show that Edelgard is not the only one able to bring about a unified society. The rest of lords, and Byleth in the church ending, are just as fully capable as her of bringing people together and in their cases not blowing up the church in the end and causing nearly as much suffering.

 

[SliceSabre]

It's amusing how often Claude openly considers devious methods but doesn't actually have the heart to do them because he is a good person. He may use misdirection in conversations to obtain info but he would never do something cruel to someone and would feel bad if he did. Whereas Edelgard wouldn't blink an eye if she had to kill a baby to reach her goal.

 

[hipsterpants]

Playing through Claude's route, the existence of the Empire as a force to unify against is very important to him achieving his goals. I'm not sure if Dimitri's route is similar, but it's clear Claude massively benefits from the war destabilizing the continent and giving the people a "common" enemy to fight and a leader to follow.

 

[Bonejack]

And claude accomplishes even more with an even cleaner conscience.

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Nah. With the crests still there, it's basically only 50% of the problems solved. That goes for all other routes, Dimitri, Claude and the Church ending.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Nah. With the crests still there, it's basically only 50% of the problems solved. That goes for all other routes, Dimitri, Claude and the Church ending.

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the crests arent gone yet in edelgard's route yet either. In both endings though they are working on dismantling the systems that created the hierarchy with them.

In claude's ending though, they are also fostering relations with other nations.

 

[Bonejack]

the crests arent gone yet in edelgard's route yet either. In both endings though they are working on dismantling the systems that created the hierarchy with them.

In claude's ending though, they are also fostering relations with other nations.

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Since Byleths crest is removed and their heart starts beating again, i'd say we can agree that they've reached that goal. Still, it's the only ending where the crests are definitely done for.
And working on removing the social hierarchy is nice, but as long as there will be people with crests who will then be "superior" in one way or another, it's nothing but water dripping on a hot stone.

Edelgard also has diplomatic developments. Maybe not between Fodlan and Almyra, but between Fodlan, Dagda and Brigid.

 

[NSESN]

I dont think Crests are gone even in Edel's ending so the problem exists regardless of the ending
And it isnt like Edelgard can simply remove the crests from everyone in the world without causing another war

 

[Bonejack]

I dont think Crests are gone even in Edel's ending so the problem exists regardless of the ending
And it isnt like Edelgard can simply remove the crests from everyone in the world without causing another war

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Her crests are gone, Byleth's is ... pretty wild take that crests aren't done for in her ending.

War with whom? All known crests are in Fodlan, so there wouldn't be war with another country because of that. And here's the thing, given what Hubert does in that ending, fat chance that someone who will try to revolt to keep their crest will live long enough to actually start something.

 

[Lunar15]

It's always going to be weird because one of the houses had to *start* the war, but all of the houses get an unquestionably good ending. I'd argue that none of the good developments in the future of Fodlan would have happened without the war, which, technically that's Edelgard's whole shtick. But then they have three paths that oppose this war, yet reap the benefits. It's wonky writing.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

yea ive never questioned Byleth's crest being gone, but everyone else's isnt yet

I do think its interesting that Byleth's best ending is Edelgard's route

 

[NSESN]

Her crests are gone, Byleth's is ... pretty wild take that crests aren't done for in her ending.

War with whom? All known crests are in Fodlan, so there wouldn't be war with another country because of that. And here's the thing, given what Hubert does in that ending, fat chance that someone who will try to revolt to keep their crest will live long enough to actually start something.

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So Edelgard basically becomes what she hates, because killing everyone that disagrees with her new system is basically what Rhea did.
Also crests still exist in her ending because Hanneman is able study them. Unless that is a plot hole.
Also I dont think her crests are really gone, I dont remember it being talked about

It's always going to be weird because one of the houses had to *start* the war, but all of the houses get an unquestionably good ending. I'd argue that none of the good developments in the future of Fodlan would have happened without the war, which, technically that's Edelgard's whole shtick. But then they have three paths that oppose this war, yet reap the benefits. It's wonky writing.

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That is because the message that they want to pass is that the war wasn't necessary imo.

 

[suracity]

And claude accomplishes even more with an even cleaner conscience.

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Here is the thing, Claude is an opportunist. He is the sanest among the three yes, but at the end of the day, he is the opportunist and he lacks the absolute power to push his dream through by himself. He can't accomplish anything without someone breaking up the status quo first.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Here is the thing, Claude is an opportunist. He is the sanest among the three yes, but at the end of the day, he is the opportunist and he lacks the absolute power to push his dream through by himself. He can't accomplish anything without someone breaking up the status quo first.

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he was ambitious and already planning things before the war though, and with Byleth's help I dont actually believe he wouldnt be capable without the war