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First Look at Game of Thrones Season 8

Oct 25, 2017
4,198
The Research Triangle
It probably was at least in the conversation for best new show of the last 20 years prior to seasons 5, 6 and 7 happening.
I feel you on season 5 but I love season 6. 7 was a bit of a letdown but I like it far more than some here.

Six Feet Under, The Wire, Breaking Bad, True Detective S1, Band of Brothers all say "hello".
I've greeted them all already. They're all quite good. I'm not sure why they're still calling me?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,965
I don't know, would Tywin have sanctioned a brain dead mission beyond the wall to convince Cersei of all people that the living dead were real? Something tells me that Tywin wasn't the sort of a guy that jeopardize his own crew when he had a surgical strike option available to use on his enemies.
But visibly that was the only way to (try to) convince Cersei to do a truce, if not a temporary alliance, given that nobody south of Winterfell believes that the White Walkers are real. The idea is sound, and was indeed more of a "surgical strike" to capture 1 walker, instead of sending a large troop. As for the question of why going himself, he believes that his knowledge of WW combat makes him valuable (he is correct in that) and that there are other people who could take over if he fell (also correct).
Now, visibly, the Night King has informations that Jon doesn't and was expecting them, and expecting a Dragon rescue too.
My theory is that the NK knows of a detailed prophecy regarding the fall of the Wall, that allows him to have knowledge of things to come, that's the only explanation.

Which in thereof doesn't mean that Jon is an idiot btw.
 
Oct 29, 2017
3,048
An hour and thirty minutes each?
That's what Iain Glen said last year, something like 80-90 minutes, could be less I guess. HBO's CEO mentioned it also the other day but I'm not sure if he meant runtime or the cinematography or scope of it but at the very least they're all going to be over an hour.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
Edmonton
But visibly that was the only way to (try to) convince Cersei to do a truce, if not a temporary alliance, given that nobody south of Winterfell believes that the White Walkers are real. The idea is sound, and was indeed more of a "surgical strike" to capture 1 walker, instead of sending a large troop. As for the question of why going himself, he believes that his knowledge of WW combat makes him valuable (he is correct in that) and that there are other people who could take over if he fell (also correct).
Now, visibly, the Night King has informations that Jon doesn't and was expecting them, and expecting a Dragon rescue too.
My theory is that the NK knows of a detailed prophecy regarding the fall of the Wall, that allows him to have knowledge of things to come, that's the only explanation.

Which in thereof doesn't mean that Jon is an idiot btw.
They didn’t have to do any of that if they just levelled the Red Keep. That’s just it. In their pursuit to not hurt even a fly, they allowed maltitudes more to die. It’s also the reason why Tyrion’s plan to not put an immediate chokehold on KL was a strategic error. Ok so no one dies in KL, but you’ve just allowed the Reach to have their ruling family killed off, their capital sacked, and their people forced to turn over their food to Cersei. How exactly is that a sound decision Tyrion?

As for Jon, that bit where he decides to go last action hero with the walkers when everyone else is yelling at him to come back...yeah he’s an idiot. He does the same shit at the Battle of the Bastard. Each time a family member has to bail his ass out from his stupidity. This show is going to end with Jon Snow finally dying, only because he’s run out of family members to save him.
 
Nov 6, 2017
3,814
Los Angeles
Jon’s an idiot though. Episodes 5, 6, and 7 of the last season were all highlights of that stupidity.
Thank you. 100%.

Seasons 5-7 are a lesson on how Jon is inspirational and charismatic but has bad judgement.

The WW got a dragon because of him, he fell for Ramsay's trap and almost lost the Battle of Bastards if it wasn't not LF & Sansa, he got assassinated by his own men, the northern lords are about to rebel the minute he leaves etc.

If Jon is the endgame ruler then he'll need damn good advisors to cover his ass.

Was Tywin an idiot?

He died like a punk taking a shit...

Jon's rep as an idiot is vastly overblown. He is just a good guy with an overblown sense of what the "honorable thing to do" is. And yes, sometimes that bites him back in the ass.
The showrunners act like he's pretty dumb in the DVD commentaries and the narraitve positions him as an all-good but politically inept Ned-like figure.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,466
Was Tywin an idiot?

He died like a punk taking a shit...

Jon's rep as an idiot is vastly overblown. He is just a good guy with an overblown sense of what the "honorable thing to do" is. And yes, sometimes that bites him back in the ass.
Show Jon Snow is an unbelievable idiot.

Book Jon Snow actually grew a brain over time.
 
Oct 29, 2017
793
They didn’t have to do any of that if they just levelled the Red Keep. That’s just it. In their pursuit to not hurt even a fly, they allowed maltitudes more to die. It’s also the reason why Tyrion’s plan to not put an immediate chokehold on KL was a strategic error. Ok so no one dies in KL, but you’ve just allowed the Reach to have their ruling family killed off, their capital sacked, and their people forced to turn over their food to Cersei. How exactly is that a sound decision Tyrion?

As for Jon, that bit where he decides to go last action hero with the walkers when everyone else is yelling at him to come back...yeah he’s an idiot. He does the same shit at the Battle of the Bastard. Each time a family member has to bail his ass out from his stupidity. This show is going to end with Jon Snow finally dying, only because he’s run out of family members to save him.
Dany not just attacking the Red Keep straightaway, coupled with the lifeless "drama" surrounding Sansa and Arya and Cersei (shockingly) ignoring the truce the whole Wight Retreival Arc was built around, made much of the season feel like filler story-wise.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
2,965
Show Jon Snow is an unbelievable idiot.

Book Jon Snow actually grew a brain over time.
This kind of comment is the problem nowadays with people thinking that being honorable and good natured is being an idiot, while being deceitful and betraying everyone and everything is being smart.
Pretty typical.
Let me guess.
You think Cercei, Tywin and Littlefinger are geniuses?
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,466
This kind of comment is the problem nowadays with people thinking that being honorable and good natured is being an idiot, while being deceitful and betraying everyone and everything is being smart.
Pretty typical.
Let me guess.
You think Cercei, Tywin and Littlefinger are geniuses?
Have you read the books?

Show Jon Snow is a certifiable idiot. His plans are dumb, the fact that they are "good natured" or "honorable" doesn't matter when they are completely idiotic. It's like deciding that you were going to oppose Hitler during WWII by buying a plane ticket into Germany and walk right into his Eagle's Nest in Austra to shoot him in his face. A "good natured" plan, for sure. But, also completely idiotic.

Book Jon Snow actually grew a brain and learned how to play politic while attempting to maintain the noble and honorable ideals of his "father." And, it's this politicking that got him stabbed.

As to Cercei, Tywin, and LF? Cercei is a complete fool. Twin and LF are geniuses, at least in the books. It's why they make great enemies.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,987
If they're taking time for scenes like Sansa introducing herself to Daenerys, I can imagine this unfolding like the final season of Rome, with each episode resolving several ongoing storylines.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,965
Have you read the books?

Show Jon Snow is a certifiable idiot. His plans are dumb, the fact that they are "good natured" or "honorable" doesn't matter when they are completely idiotic. It's like deciding that you were going to oppose Hitler during WWII by buying a plane ticket into Germany and walk right into his Eagle's Nest in Austra to shoot him in his face. A "good natured" plan, for sure. But, also completely idiotic.

Book Jon Snow actually grew a brain and learned how to play politic while attempting to maintain the noble and honorable ideals of his "father." And, it's this politicking that got him stabbed.

As to Cercei, Tywin, and LF? Cercei is a complete fool. Twin and LF are geniuses, at least in the books. It's why they make great enemies.
We're not talking about the books, and personally I am delaying my reading until after the show ends.
And no, Jon's plans are not "dumb" on their face, like his decision to go assassinate Mance, or allowing the Wildlings to escape south. Just like his decision to attack Winterfell with insufficient resources, they are based on specific circumstances with urgency pressing his hand, and lack of information withheld from him.
You probably think Sansa was smart to withhold essential information before the BotB?
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
Edmonton
We're not talking about the books, and personally I am delaying my reading until after the show ends.
And no, Jon's plans are not "dumb" on their face, like his decision to go assassinate Mance, or allowing the Wildlings to escape south. Just like his decision to attack Winterfell with insufficient resources, they are based on specific circumstances with urgency pressing his hand, and lack of information withheld from him.
You probably think Sansa was smart to withhold essential information before the BotB?
Going beyond the wall to collect a zombie was certifiably stupid. The fact that a character (Tyrion) well regarded for being “smart” floated the idea, and that Jon Snow without hesitation agreed to it, doesn’t stop the whole exercise from being the single stupidest plan put to motion in this show.

All of that effort and loss, just to not kill Cersei and it get over with. What do they have to show for it now? The White Walkers have brought down the wall with their gifted dragon, and Cersei is about to stab them in the back. Now keep in mind, Iron Island’s Guy left pretty early on during the meeting, meaning Cersei planned to betray them from the beginning. I’m pretty sure Sansa told Jon about how treacherous Cersei was, and Tyrion, I don’t understand how he misreads his sister in such a colossally idiotic way.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
12,466
We're not talking about the books, and personally I am delaying my reading until after the show ends.
And no, Jon's plans are not "dumb" on their face, like his decision to go assassinate Mance, or allowing the Wildlings to escape south. Just like his decision to attack Winterfell with insufficient resources, they are based on specific circumstances with urgency pressing his hand, and lack of information withheld from him.
You probably think Sansa was smart to withhold essential information before the BotB?
No, S5 and onward Jon Snow has displayed consistently dumb decision making and critical thinking skills. The only reason he's not dead is because he has plot armor, the same goes for Daenerys. Sansa withholding crucial info before the BotB is just another example of the dumbed down Hollywood writing the show has turned into more focused on cheap shocks that are unearned and action.

For example, Book Jon Snow would've realized it would be fucking stupid and irresponsible for him to personally lead a small raiding party North of the Wall to capture a Wight. He would've ordered someone to do it. But, in the show, the hero has to do everything.

Going beyond the wall to collect a zombie was certifiably stupid. The fact that a character (Tyrion) well regarded for being “smart” floated the idea, and that Jon Snow without hesitation agreed to it, doesn’t stop the whole exercise from being the single stupidest plan put to motion in this show.

All of that effort and loss, just to not kill Cersei and get over it. What do they have to show for it now? The White Walkers have brought down the wall with their gifted dragon, and Cersei is about to stab them in the back. Now keep in mind, Iron Island’s Guy left pretty early on during the meeting, meaning planned to betray them from the beginning. I’m pretty sure Sansa told Jon about how treacherous Cersei was, and Tyrion, I don’t understand how misreads his sister in such a colossally idiotic way.
Exactly.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,965
Going beyond the wall to collect a zombie was certifiably stupid. The fact that a character (Tyrion) well regarded for being “smart” floated the idea, and that Jon Snow without hesitation agreed to it, doesn’t stop the whole exercise from being the single stupidest plan put to motion in this show.

All of that effort and loss, just to not kill Cersei and it get over with. What do they have to show for it now? The White Walkers have brought down the wall with their gifted dragon, and Cersei is about to stab them in the back. Now keep in mind, Iron Island’s Guy left pretty early on during the meeting, meaning Cersei planned to betray them from the beginning. I’m pretty sure Sansa told Jon about how treacherous Cersei was, and Tyrion, I don’t understand how he misreads his sister in such a colossally idiotic way.
Just for the sake of discussion, what was the alternative in your mind? Fighting on two fronts, or possibly having to dragon fire all of King's Landing and its thousands of innocents?

Again, them hoping Cercei wouldn't be THAT stupid as to backstabbing allies (or even a simple truce) in the fight against an totally overwhelming supernatural enemy isn't a mark of stupidity.
If anything, Cercei proved to have bewildering stupidity compounded by her ever active spite in this, as shown by Jaime's betrayal.

Ever heard of the Scorpion and the turtle? Do you think the Scorpion is smart in the tale?
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,466
Just for the sake of discussion, what was the alternative in your mind? Fighting on two fronts, or possibly having to dragon fire all of King's Landing and its thousands of innocents?

Again, them hoping Cercei wouldn't be THAT stupid as to backstabbing allies (or even a simple truce) in the fight against an totally overwhelming supernatural enemy isn't a mark of stupidity.
If anything, Cercei proved to have bewildering stupidity compounded by her ever active spite in this, as shown by Jaime's betrayal.

Ever heard of the Scorpion and the turtle? Do you think the Scorpion is smart in the tale?
The discussion is almost impossible to have because it relies on a bedrock of illogical scenarios. There is no reason KL should be rallying behind Cercei at the moment, the moment Daenerys showed up everyone should have flocked to her side. There is also no rhyme or reason why Randyll Tarly would betray his liege lord. And, no explanation as to how Jamie managed to capture Highgarden in a day with Lannister forces despite the Lannisters having just depleted much of their resources fighting the War of the Five Kings meanwhile the Tyrells having no such disadvantage with fresh levies and bountiful resources.

So, to even get to Daenerys bringing her dragons immediately against Cercei we have to deal with a bunch of nonsense that allows her to be in power in the first place.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
Edmonton
Just for the sake of discussion, what was the alternative in your mind? Fighting on two fronts, or possibly having to dragon fire all of King's Landing and its thousands of innocents?

Again, them hoping Cercei wouldn't be THAT stupid as to backstabbing allies (or even a simple truce) in the fight against an totally overwhelming supernatural enemy isn't a mark of stupidity.
If anything, Cercei proved to have bewildering stupidity compounded by her ever active spite in this, as shown by Jaime's betrayal.

Ever heard of the Scorpion and the turtle? Do you think the Scorpion is smart in the tale?
The Lannister army was obliterated during the Loot Train Attack. You wouldn’t even need to invade the whole of King’s Landing. Realistically speaking and considering that Cersei blew up the Church and killed many nobles, just the act of showing up with her massive army should have had the people throwing open the gates to the city. Hell, who would have stopped them anyways? The City Guard? Also, how is Cersei holding a city of a million people (I think that’s what Tyrion said to John the population was) with a skeleton crew when the people hate her? Like look at how people reacted to Joffrey, and that was at the height of Lannister power.