First person gameplay and motion sickness.

[Dark_Castle]

So we recently have the news that Cyberpunk 2077 is a first person perspective game, and there are some controversies around this. Many people assumed this stems from people simply preferring third person angle over first, but in fact, there are actual people who actually has difficulty enjoying games with fast-paced first person gameplay as a result of motion sickness. I myself cannot get into games like this (tried Bioshock and Borderlands), even after tinkering with fov settings.

Is optional third person camera like Skyrim a feature that is generally too much of a hassle to implement? If it is, depending on how fast-paced the gameplay is, someone such as myself would probably need to wait for mods to change the perspective and stuffs.

 

[Coreda]

In my case it's a combination of things that helps mitigate this (though obviously not everyone): framerate, FoV, and reducing head bob and motion blur (if any). Sometimes I've found playing at smaller 1:1 resolutions (ie: with black bars) further helps as well, such as scaled 21:9 on a 16:9 monitor.

 

[Deleted member 41271]

(From a development perspective) first person is mainly a game feel decision. There are SOME other concerns as well - you need to animate the character really well, which you can skip in the FPS perspective, and the FPS perspective can also be used to hide a variety of glitches.

Finally, the perspective comes with some inherent limitations. In third person, you can peek around corners without the character actually doing so. You can't do that in a FPS perspective. Mainly impacts game feel, but when doing stealth, this gives you added information that makes the stealth play generally better, at the cost of some immersion.

(Compare Thief: The Dark Project to Metal Gear Solid 3 for that)

So overall, it's not about hassle, it's about game feel. Game feel is one of the most important aspects of the design - the same game would be rated much worse if the game feel is bad. This means companies prefer testing one general scheme and maximizing its game feel over several different ones.

 

[Gradly]

First Person is an easy choice because there's no additional worry about how the character looks and moves etc.

I have trouble with first person and don't usually buy them, I did play Titanfall 2 and liked it though cuz was easy and with assists etc. I tried the new Doom demo but didn't bear it with color pallet and 60 FPS smoothness made it even harder.

I still think FPS is fit for VR and not something to experience on a flat screen.

 

[jon bones]

I primarily play on my PC these days - do any console FPS games allow FoV sliders?

 

[Lappe]

If a game is designed from a FPP, then that's a boo-hoo situation in my opinion.

Then it's just not a game for you, get over it and move along.

I primarily play on my PC these days - do any console FPS games allow FoV sliders?

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Yes, some of them.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

I primarily play on my PC these days - do any console FPS games allow FoV sliders?

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Very few games do, yes.

 

[EarthPainting]

In my case it's a combination of things that helps mitigate this (though obviously not everyone): framerate, FoV, and reducing head bob and motion blur (if any). Sometimes I've found playing at smaller 1:1 resolutions (ie: with black bars) further helps as well, such as scaled 21:9 on a 16:9 monitor.

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Going to echo this post. These all seem to alleviate the issues a little bit for me. FoV and the stability of the framerate are the biggest contributors in my case. I'd like to stress the stability part though, and not just a blanket high frame rate requirement. A stable 30 is a lot easier on my eyes than a 60 that regularly dips to 55.

I still can't power through longer sessions like I can in third person games, though.

 

[Stealthy Cockatrice]

Some games or specifically a game designers art/creation just doesnt feel right in third person and its very reasonable for CDPR to have gone this way, if their game was designed from ground up to be played in first person. So yes with that in mind, it would be very hard to implement a third person camera without ruining the experience for the person playing or worse case scenario ruining the art/creation. Fallout/Skyrim do have third person but they generally suck in that view.

 

[Red]

I've liked quite a few first person games. Halo, Bioshock, and Metroid Prime continue to rank among my favorite games. But there are plenty I can't get into without becoming nauseated: Marathon, Borderlands, Half Life, Doom, etc etc.

It's not one thing. It's got to do with environments, scale, frame rate, head bob, FoV... probably some other elements I'm not aware of.

CDPR typically provides plenty of visual settings for the user to tinker with. I'm sure there will be a good level of adjustment possible. I can't anticipate if that will be enough, but I have faith CDPR is doing their best to release a good experience for their players.

It's weird for me. I comfortably played though most of Bioshock Infinite, but every once in a while I'd get hit with a bout of nausea and have to stop. Sometimes it would stick with me for hours afterward. Even games I've played before and been fine with will make me ill on a revisit.

 

[Poimandres]

Are there any studies into how many people experience motion sickness from first person gaming? It certainly comes up often enough, but probably only a few % of people.

Really sucks for people impacted. But I don't expect every third person game to have a first person mode (I prefer FPS) so I don't think it's fair to expect the same from first person games. It's quite a lot of work to incorporate both in an acceptable way.

 

[Dandy]

Are there any studies into how many people experience motion sickness from first person gaming? It certainly comes up often enough, but probably only a few % of people.

Really sucks for people impacted. But I don't expect every third person game to have a first person mode (I prefer FPS) so I don't think it's fair to expect the same from first person games. It's quite a lot of work to incorporate both in an acceptable way.

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I heard recently 17%, but I'm not sure how valid that figure is.

 

[texhnolyze]

Funny because I made a similar thread last month or so.

I really hate first person perspective, especially in shooters and/or action. I actually got a motion sickness playing Vermintide last month and I had to install a 3rd person mod. However, if it's anything like Deus Ex (the newer ones) then it won't be a problem for me. People forgot (or ignorant) that Cyberpunk 2077 is an RPG first and foremost. It'll be much slower paced compared to action FPS. I'll reserve my judgement until I see/more information of the game.

 

[Poimandres]

I heard recently 17%, but I'm not sure how valid that figure is.

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That's actually heaps higher than I thought it would be. Damn.

 

[cowbanana]

I don't have issues with motion sickness as such, but I can't stand playing FPS on consoles with the awful, shallow FOV. I get tunnel vision and a splitting head ache very fast.
Playing a game like Far Cry 5 on PC is so much better, not only can you get a playable "human" FOV and 60 fps, but the landscapes and vistas are someting else entirely compared to consoles where your view is like viewing through a cardboard tube. Bless PC and adjustable FOV.

 

[tuxfool]

I'm subject to it, at low frame rates, low FOV and when there is no reference reticle.

There are some games that have really badly designed viewbob that triggers it.

That said, it is very much a rarity for me to be affected (but when I am, it is really bad). I can say that the only games that affected me in recent memory were the Thalos Principle and the Witness.

The former required changing some settings in the option screens, and the latter got patched to add a reticle.

 

[Vipu]

So we recently have the news that Cyberpunk 2077 is a first person perspective game, and there are some controversies around this. Many people assumed this stems from people simply preferring third person angle over first, but in fact, there are actual people who actually has difficulty enjoying games with fast-paced first person gameplay as a result of motion sickness. I myself cannot get into games like this (tried Bioshock and Borderlands), even after tinkering with fov settings.

Is optional third person camera like Skyrim a feature that is generally too much of a hassle to implement? If it is, depending on how fast-paced the gameplay is, someone such as myself would probably need to wait for mods to change the perspective and stuffs.

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Have you played FPS games with high FPS?
I rarely hear about motion sickness with pc gamers, but here in ERA where most people are console gamers it seems to be big issue.
So I just cant believe its coincidence, its something related to bad fps + bad fov and maybe something else (above my post, view bobbing that makes you feel like you are in boat middle of storm).

 

[Mikebison]

It's a huge undertaking to add a 3rd person view to an FPS.

And Elder scrolls games are not a good example of it being done well.

 

[Railgun]

The biggest culprit of this in first person games is ridiculous low FoV's for me. It drives me nuts and more games either need a FoV slider or to not have a 60 degree FoV.

 

[jon bones]

Very few games do, yes.

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Rad, hopefully CDPR offers such a thing to console players for Cyberpunk 2077.

Someone should reach out and suggest it.

 

[Grudy]

I always feel nauseated after playing any games with a first person camera. Some games are better than others, like I can play overwatch quite comfortable, but for most games, especially those focusing on exploration tend to be quite annoying and awkward for me.

 

[Spark]

Having a high FPS (60+) and a wide FoV will solve it. If you can get your hands on a Gsync/Freesync monitor it will fix everything, all games I play on mine are ultra smooth even when the FPS fluctuates.

 

[Lord Arcadio]

I also suffer from this. It took me a while to no longer feel sick when playing Minecraft on the computer (never got sick from playing it on tablet though). For the TES and Fallout games, I swap between third and first person.

Unfortunately, I just have to avoid playing first person games most of the time. The good thing is that there are so many great third person games that not playing first person games isn't that big of a loss. I simply don't have the time and money to play every game I might be interested in anyway.

 

[Pixel Grotto]

I get bad motion sickness too but not just with first person. Hell, freaking Resident Evil 4 gave me motion sickness due to its low FOV and swiveling camera. For me I've discovered that its not necessarily a first person perspective that triggers nausea - it's usually a combo of things like frame rate, camera bob or motion blur. If I have some FOV options available or at least the ability to tweak motion blur and camera shaking then the problem goes away. For example Overwatch and Doom 2016 both give me no problems whatsoever.

Since CD Projekt Red started out as PC devs first I feel pretty sure that they will have substantial options available in order to make the experience comfortable for people. I'd urge you to stay optimistic and maybe consider experimenting with options in games to see what works best for you.

 

[Gundam]

I primarily play on my PC these days - do any console FPS games allow FoV sliders?

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Not nearly enough of them.

 

[Vipu]

1 more reason for consoles to run at higher fps, finally console people can enjoy FPS games too without getting sick.

 

[texhnolyze]

I always feel nauseated after playing any games with a first person camera. Some games are better than others, like I can play overwatch quite comfortable, but for most games, especially those focusing on exploration tend to be quite annoying and awkward for me.

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Weird, it's the total opposite for me. Games like Overwatch are the worst as you constantly move the camera around and move in all direction at all times. That's highly nausea inducing to me. Slower-paced exploration games are much better.

 

[knocturnalis]

Some people don't realize this is a thing, but it is definitely real and disappointing. And I wanted to become a Halo god

 

[It’s Time To Go]

Valve games are chronically bad with this for me.

 

[Venture]

Do any of the solutions for traditional motion sickness also work for videogame sickness? Wrist bands, patches, or pills etc. Or is it a completely different issue?

 

[Grudy]

Weird, it's the total opposite for me. Games like Overwatch are the worst as you constantly move the camera around and move in all direction at all times. That's highly nausea inducing to me. Slower-paced exploration games are much better.

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I know what you mean, I suffer the same with a lot of fast paced games too, and it still happened in Overwatch when I played tracer or Mcree. I mostly stuck to Mercy/Reinhardt and Reaper which I felt most comfortable playing.

My main annoynces come from certain types of exploration like I said. When I see a massive area or a gigantic structures in first person it feels limiting, sometimes nauseating if I can't get a proper judgement of my character relative to their enviornmemt. I'm not sure how to describe it and its weird because none of my friends experience anything like this.

First person sequences during car rides/chases or escape sequences on foot are terrible too. I loathe driving in first person and turning the camera to look from the side windows.

 

[Deleted member 29464]

Genuine question here, how does adding a TPP fix this issue for people, having something to focus on in the middle of the screen? I thought the issue was more of a FOV thing, something that TPP doesn't necessarily fix. I actually remember Kingdom Hearts 1 on the PS2 made me feel quite sick playing it, the camera and movement in Monstro were too much.

 

[Vipu]

Genuine question here, how does adding a TPP fix this issue for people, having something to focus on in the middle of the screen? I thought the issue was more of a FOV thing, something that TPP doesn't necessarily fix. I actually remember Kingdom Hearts 1 on the PS2 made me feel quite sick playing it, the camera and movement in Monstro were too much.

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I think its that in TPP you dont have to move your camera so much to look around, in FPP you do.

 

[Deleted member 24118]

It depends on the game.

In multiplayer shooters and such I refuse to play on a server that allows third person, and if there aren't any first person only servers then I just won't buy the game. Being able to look around walls and see people who can't see you promotes an incredibly boring, camp-heavy playstyle that I'm not going to be bothered with.

In singleplayer there are also balance and gameplay concerns, but in an open world RPG there's not much reason to not give the option for third person (beyond extra work, obviously. Elder Scrolls is usually held up as a "good" example of a game that does both right, but its third person is barely functional). Though in this case I suspect that this decision was partially motivated by console hardware limitations that limit the amount of stuff the game can show on the screen at once in a demanding game.

 

[Deleted member 8860]

Having a high FPS (60+) and a wide FoV will solve it. If you can get your hands on a Gsync/Freesync monitor it will fix everything, all games I play on mine are ultra smooth even when the FPS fluctuates.

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These merely reduce the severity of motion sickness, not solve it.

 

[Truant]

I'd love to see some proper research on video games and motion sickness.

 

[Hoo-doo]

I feel for these people, but CDPR should not budge on it's vision. First-person drastically alters how a game plays and to me it's such a huge boon to immersion.

They should perhaps offer an optional third person camera angle but I feel this outrage is overblown. Games are not made according to what a vocal minority of folks think should happen. CDPR knows what the fuck they are doing.

 

[Deleted member 17207]

I feel for these people, but CDPR should not budge on it's vision. First-person drastically alters how a game plays and to me it's such a huge boon to immersion.

They should perhaps offer an optional third person camera angle but I feel this outrage is overblown. Games are not made according to what a vocal minority of folks think should happen. CDPR knows what the fuck they are doing.

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There's no doubt about that. I think people are just surprised/let down because Witcher has always been third-person, and rightfully so, everyone expected this to be the same.

But yeah, they don't owe anybody a third person camera, it's their game, their vision.

 

[Hoo-doo]

There's no doubt about that. I think people are just surprised/let down because Witcher has always been third-person, and rightfully so, everyone expected this to be the same.

But yeah, they don't owe anybody a third person camera, it's their game, their vision.

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If this were a game from the Witcher franchise I could potentially understand these comments, but it's a new IP. It has jack shit to do with the Witcher.

Did people clamor for Horizon to be in first-person because Guerrilla has a track record of making first-person shooters? Hell naw, they have a vision and they stick to it.

 

[Lucifonz]

My partner gets motion sickness watching me play pretty much any game, regardless of perspective. First, third, even as far as top down RTS games. The camera movement does it for her when she's not in control. It sucks, we've tried ginger tablets, pressure wristbands etc. Nothing sorts it, so she just can't watch me play games for more than tiny bursts.

 

[Duxxy3]

For the folks that get motion sickness - ever try sea-bands?

 

[Deleted member 17207]

If this were a game from the Witcher franchise I could potentially understand these comments, but it's a new IP. It has jack shit to do with the Witcher.

Did people clamor for Horizon to be in first-person because Guerrilla has a track record of making first-person shooters? Hell naw, they have a vision and they stick to it.

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True.

And as far as Horizon, that's a bit of a different beast, no? People knew it was a huge departure and it was an open-world RPG. I think anything was game for that. But with Cyberpunk, I'm not sure if CDR ever said "this will be the Witcher but in the Cyberpunk universe", or if people just propagated that idea - but either way, people were expecting "The Witcher, but Cyberpunk" haha.

But yeah, totally right.

 

[Vaser]

First person is unplayable for me. FOV, frame rate, fast paced shooter or slow paced adventure game, makes no difference.

 

[Raptomex]

I understand motion sickness is an actual problem for some people but I don't understand the uproar for Cyberpunk, specifically. FPS games are released all the time and I rarely see or hear backlash because of the perspective. Yes, people who don't like FPS games may chime in but not like what I saw in the Cyberpunk thread. I just don't know where the expectation that it was going to be TPS came from. Granted, I didn't follow its development and became more interested in the title after all the recent news so maybe I missed something.

 

[Deleted member 5457]

On consoles, FOV is the real problem way too many times :(. Combined with jerky 30 fps motion, it can look really bad. At least we have a trend(?) of including FOV settings in console games.

On PC it shouldn't be a problem, set FOV high enough and you're good.

 

[Samstrike]

I remember getting quite motion sick when I was younger playing games like Doom. These days I can play FPS game with no problem, I wonder why!? I get why it suck for people who can't play a game they were looking forward too because of motion sickness.

 

[dancingphlower]

A lot of recent Bethesda games (DOOM, Wolfenstein, Prey) made me sick, I could only play those games in short sessions before feeling nauseous. It's not limited to First Person, though. FF Type-0 gave me a huge headache with its crappy camera.

 

[lazygecko]

I had issues with getting lightheaded or downright naseus from extended sessions in TES games (switching to third person actually made it worse, if anything), until I learned about FoV and how to modify them with console commands or third party tools. Pretty shameful that Bethesda still isn't adding proper options for this kind of stuff.

This is also why disparaging comments towards people complaining about lack of FoV customization pisses me off so much. They try to frame it as some kind of inane PC gaming snobbery, when so many people suffer from these physical ailments that could be easily remedied with proper options that are often arbitrarily hidden.

 

[Catdaddy]

As long as I can adjust the turn speed way down I'm okay with them… I have no idea who can play those when the slightest touch of the stick spins you around in a circle..

 

[Viken]

It was hard for me to come to terms that every game I want to play will not cater to me.

I passed on many first person games because of the way it makes me feel. I will buy cyberpunk 2077, but I realize not every game will cater to my needs, and if it makes me sick I just will refund it. I'll continue to buy games that interest me, and if I can't play it because of my weird physical issues then that sucks. Lots of other games to play