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Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,915
Been gradually getting onto the Fitness train, with being able to clock in 100 press ups in 4 sets...or at least I would be if I hadn't realised I've been doing my form wrong this whole time. Just tried to do a couple of sets with the proper form and man I was exhausted after just 25 total! Very disappointed in myself as I thought I was on the right track and it'll take me a while to adjust but guess I just gotta press on.

Need to get onto that protein action as well, but preferably after a workout rather than before :)
You are on the right track. All that work you put in won't go to waste. Fixing technique is all part of the process, don't be hard on yourself.
Powerlifters, how do you deal with back pain? It keeps me from squatting and I gotta power through deadlifts. I can't even deadlift for reps because the movement alone is what hurts me. It's extremely discouraging. Last month I didn't deadlift for two weeks and my back felt great.
1) Stop doing whatever is hurting you until it's healed
2) When you come back start lighter and work on technique, making sure you are using your butt to hinge and not lifting with your back.
3) Try out other variations. Conventional deadlifts aren't the be-all/end-all. Try hex bar or sumo deadlifts and do the one that feels the best for you. One is not better than the other.

Your back shouldn't hurt from lifting. Muscle soreness is different of course.
 

Oliver James

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
7,778
Powerlifters, how do you deal with back pain? It keeps me from squatting and I gotta power through deadlifts. I can't even deadlift for reps because the movement alone is what hurts me. It's extremely discouraging. Last month I didn't deadlift for two weeks and my back felt great.
Assess your form, it is probably wrong. When I fixed my form, no more back pain at all.
 

dark_prinny

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,374
I do not. But everything that I've read has really made that Protein, Creatine, Caffeine are like the only things that kind of matter so I just stick to those. But that is just me and may differ with others.

There are studies linked with significant muscle growth associated with it. I would like to know if someone has tried it.
 

Nelo Ice

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,446
I hurt my back a couple of years ago because I did some dumb shit squatting. Then I injured it again about a year after that. I'm basically in some kind of discomfort every day of my life since then but it doesn't actually hurt until after I deadlift or squat.
Same here. My back generally feels like its still in a knot 2 years after my injury. Went to a regular doc twice. After the first time did physical therapy and they cleared me. Came back since I still had issues and got a x-ray that came up negative. Only recently went back to starting strength 2 months and I'm doing fine on the exercises despite my back issue. No pain before or after but its still annoying how I feel something off when resting.
 

tellNoel

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,254
But what kind of rest is optimal? Does it go gym gym gym rest rest or gym rest gym rest gym?
for me it really depends. Sometimes the day after leg day is tough for me to go back to the gym so I'll rest that day for sure, other times I'm totally fine that day and I'll go to the gym.
Sometimes I go do chest/tris in the morning, wait 6+ hours, and go back to the gym to finish off my push muscles (shoulders) so I don't need to go to the gym another day of the week.
This all depends on how my body reacts to each of the workouts.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,205
I try to cycle between different areas so I'm not always out of it. I honestly workout pretty much everyday without fatigue. I don't do like 1-1.5 hr workouts though. Only 30-40 mins max
 

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,915
But what kind of rest is optimal? Does it go gym gym gym rest rest or gym rest gym rest gym?
Depends how hard you're working, and what you're working.

Example: if you're doing a bodybuilding split and hitting different groups everyday then you probably don't need any rest days since the time between the specific groups is enough.

if you're doing a push/pull split then you want some rest days in between since you are hitting the same group at least twice a week with load. Usually that looks like push.pull.rest.push.pull.rest.rest. or push.pull.rest.push.rest.pull.rest
 

jvalioli

Member
Oct 27, 2017
695
If you're a beginner then your rests should be in your programming. You are following a real program, right? ;)


Same here. My back generally feels like its still in a knot 2 years after my injury. Went to a regular doc twice. After the first time did physical therapy and they cleared me. Came back since I still had issues and got a x-ray that came up negative. Only recently went back to starting strength 2 months and I'm doing fine on the exercises despite my back issue. No pain before or after but its still annoying how I feel something off when resting.
If you ever get checked out again, get an MRI and not an x-ray.
 

Deleted member 984

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,203
Depends how hard you're working, and what you're working.

Example: if you're doing a bodybuilding split and hitting different groups everyday then you probably don't need any rest days since the time between the specific groups is enough.

if you're doing a push/pull split then you want some rest days in between since you are hitting the same group at least twice a week with load. Usually that looks like push.pull.rest.push.pull.rest.rest. or push.pull.rest.push.rest.pull.rest

Where are the legs?
 

viciouskillersquirrel

Cheering your loss
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,874
Attached to your pelvis I hope.

If you are talking about push/pull then push could be squats, and pull could be deadlifts.
I would argue that deadlifts are a push exercise too since if you're doing it right, your arms and shoulders are holding the bar steady while you drive the weight through your ankles and launch off the floor.

Or maybe that's just how I visualise the movement so I'm not tempted to arch my back like a cat to get the bar off the floor.

Working my bar pass during benchpress has been an eye opener

I was doing it all wrong -_-
I've been there. When I started to make sure I touched the bar to my chest each time, I realised I wasn't nearly as strong as I thought I was.
 

jvalioli

Member
Oct 27, 2017
695
I would argue that deadlifts are a push exercise too since if you're doing it right, your arms and shoulders are holding the bar steady while you drive the weight through your ankles and launch off the floor.

Or maybe that's just how I visualise the movement so I'm not tempted to arch my back like a cat to get the bar off the floor.


I've been there. When I started to make sure I touched the bar to my chest each time, I realised I wasn't nearly as strong as I thought I was.
For the deadlift the lift is a push until the bar gets to your knees. It is a pull after that.
 

Fularu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,609
I would argue that deadlifts are a push exercise too since if you're doing it right, your arms and shoulders are holding the bar steady while you drive the weight through your ankles and launch off the floor.

Or maybe that's just how I visualise the movement so I'm not tempted to arch my back like a cat to get the bar off the floor.


I've been there. When I started to make sure I touched the bar to my chest each time, I realised I wasn't nearly as strong as I thought I was.
It wasn't so much as touching the chest (I always did that)

It was touching at the right spot on the chest with the proper position at the top and on the chest and using good leg « push »(?)
 

Deleted member 984

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,203
It wasn't so much as touching the chest (I always did that)

It was touching at the right spot on the chest with the proper position at the top and on the chest and using good leg « push »(?)

Don't forget the engage and retract scapula keeping your shoulders pinned back the entire movement. That's the biggest thing I see missing when going to the gym even with those that do full range of motion.
 

Fularu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,609
Don't forget the engage and retract scapula keeping your shoulders pinned back the entire movement. That's the biggest thing I see missing when going to the gym even with those that do full range of motion.
Indeed.

I went from 185 to 235 in a week but man is it hard :p
 

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,915
I would argue that deadlifts are a push exercise too since if you're doing it right, your arms and shoulders are holding the bar steady while you drive the weight through your ankles and launch off the floor.

Or maybe that's just how I visualise the movement so I'm not tempted to arch my back like a cat to get the bar off the floor.
You're not wrong but I put it in pull day because it is a posterior chain exercise which has lots of muscles which do pulling. You don't push while hip hinging, or keeping your shoulders retracted, etc.
Like squats you're pushing the weight straight up basically.
Deads you're pulling it straight up (by pushing into the ground!).

But yea you can put whatever you want into your push/pull, this stuff isn't set in stone.
 

Astral

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
28,115
Does anyone do heavy timed holds? First time hearing about it and I tried it on the bench press because I feel like I'm hitting a plateau. It looks awkward but I do feel something.
 

Astral

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
28,115
What do you mean by holds? As in mid rep? Bottom of the rep? because at the top it's pointless

Yeah it's at the top lol. I saw some big dudes doing it and I looked it up. I'm not sure exactly what's holding me back on bench press. Sometimes it feels like it's the lockout but sometimes it's hard to get off my chest. Today I was good but I can't do more than 3x3 225 right now.
 

Fularu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,609
Yeah it's at the top lol. I saw some big dudes doing it and I looked it up. I'm not sure exactly what's holding me back on bench press. Sometimes it feels like it's the lockout but sometimes it's hard to get off my chest. Today I was good but I can't do more than 3x3 225 right now.
Stop your press on your chest for 5 seconds then get it back up

Use much lighter weights
 

jvalioli

Member
Oct 27, 2017
695
What do you mean by holds? As in mid rep? Bottom of the rep? because at the top it's pointless
Not pointless. Lots of powerlifters do this for a psychological benefit. More common with squatting though.

The other thing you are taking about is a pause rep. Good for training when you are weak at the bottom of the lift, not just general strength. Unless you are competing in bench, where it is required to pause.

Improving lockout: board press or floor press or pin press
Improving off the chest: pause bench

You should find out what part you are stuck at.
 
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Fularu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,609
Not pointless. Lots of powerlifters do this for a psychological benefit. More common with squatting though.

The other thing you are taking about is a pause rep. Good for training when you are weak at the bottom of the lift, not just general strength. Unless you are competing in bench, where it is required to pause.
At the top it's not the arms or even the pecs that are working, you'Re in a locked position so you should be able to hold it for a long time with very little effort. I don'T really see the point or what you would be working doing it?

And yes the stop is to strenghten your usually weakest spot during a bench press, allowing you to bench more.

At least it works for me :p
 

jvalioli

Member
Oct 27, 2017
695
At the top it's not the arms or even the pecs that are working, you'Re in a locked position so you should be able to hold it for a long time with very little effort. I don'T really see the point or what you would be working doing it?

And yes the stop is to strenghten your usually weakest spot during a bench press, allowing you to bench more.

At least it works for me :p
The holds (not really a hold because you aren't doing it for time) are not for strengthening, they are psychological mostly. Can be used for technique a practice as well since unracking (and squat walkouts) properly is a problem for some people.

You could also use it for stability practice but I don't know anyone who does that.
 

Deleted member 984

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,203
Yeah it's at the top lol. I saw some big dudes doing it and I looked it up. I'm not sure exactly what's holding me back on bench press. Sometimes it feels like it's the lockout but sometimes it's hard to get off my chest. Today I was good but I can't do more than 3x3 225 right now.

If it was dumbbell it would have been for a squeeze and breath, if barbell likely just breathing.
 

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,915
At the top it's not the arms or even the pecs that are working, you'Re in a locked position so you should be able to hold it for a long time with very little effort. I don'T really see the point or what you would be working doing it?

And yes the stop is to strenghten your usually weakest spot during a bench press, allowing you to bench more.

At least it works for me :p

Your bones don't hold anything without muscles working. Holding at the top has a specific use, and that's keeping tension at the top. And like jvalioli said, it carries neurological benefits although when people do top holds it is with a weight which is heavier than they can actually use. It primes everything, gets all your muscles firing just holding it.

Pause reps are fantastic.
 

Fularu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,609
Your bones don't hold anything without muscles working. Holding at the top has a specific use, and that's keeping tension at the top. And like jvalioli said, it carries neurological benefits although when people do top holds it is with a weight which is heavier than they can actually use. It primes everything, gets all your muscles firing just holding it.

Pause reps are fantastic.
I use alternate pause reps with dumbells. Keep left tense midway and do my reps with right, then keep right tense midway then do left.

I also do 2 steps pause reps with the barbell (bottom, mid) for 3-5 seconds at each stops

It's oh so painfull :D
 

Thac0

Member
Nov 15, 2017
235
It wasn't so much as touching the chest (I always did that)

It was touching at the right spot on the chest with the proper position at the top and on the chest and using good leg « push »(?)
The variation between a mediocre bench day and a good bench press day when everything is set up right, I stay tight, my bar path is ideal is huge for me. The difference between struggling with one rep at a given weight or hitting it for 3-5. I still haven't nailed it down and gotten it consistently.
 

Fularu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,609
The variation between a mediocre bench day and a good bench press day when everything is set up right, I stay tight, my bar path is ideal is huge for me. The difference between struggling with one rep at a given weight or hitting it for 3-5. I still haven't nailed it down and gotten it consistently.
Yep it's the difference between doing 2-3 reps at 225 and doing 5 reps at 245. It may seem like a small variation but the effort required is so huge.

I still need to work hard on that, especially the legs part and the arching part
 

viciouskillersquirrel

Cheering your loss
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,874
Had to abandon my squat halfway through my warm up sets. I got unexpected lower back pain (not bad - just sudden and uncomfortable) right at the bottom of the squat. I racked the bar for a minute and tried again, thinking it might have been a weird positional thing or not bracing correctly, but I really concentrated on my form and it happened again.

Luckily today is the last workout before I go on deload next week, so a weeklong rest will probably set things right. Still, it's frustrating.

I'm up in my head lately about whether or not I've been activating my glutes correctly during squats and not overworking my spine erectors, so I keep circling back to that as an explanation. At the top of the squat I brace by gripping the bar hard, sucking in my stomach and squeezing my glutes, but by the time I reach parallel, I can never tell if the glutes are still doing what they should.

I do 5/3/1 so my training weights are always very sub-maximal, but all the same, I've reached a point where I'm routinely squatting more than my body weight for 10 or more reps and I'm finding that good form makes more of a difference than it ever did previously. I want to make sure I'm not doing myself long term harm.
 

jvalioli

Member
Oct 27, 2017
695
Had to abandon my squat halfway through my warm up sets. I got unexpected lower back pain (not bad - just sudden and uncomfortable) right at the bottom of the squat. I racked the bar for a minute and tried again, thinking it might have been a weird positional thing or not bracing correctly, but I really concentrated on my form and it happened again.

Luckily today is the last workout before I go on deload next week, so a weeklong rest will probably set things right. Still, it's frustrating.

I'm up in my head lately about whether or not I've been activating my glutes correctly during squats and not overworking my spine erectors, so I keep circling back to that as an explanation. At the top of the squat I brace by gripping the bar hard, sucking in my stomach and squeezing my glutes, but by the time I reach parallel, I can never tell if the glutes are still doing what they should.

I do 5/3/1 so my training weights are always very sub-maximal, but all the same, I've reached a point where I'm routinely squatting more than my body weight for 10 or more reps and I'm finding that good form makes more of a difference than it ever did previously. I want to make sure I'm not doing myself long term harm.
Since I can't see you squat I can only comment on the glute stuff. What does your warm up look like? What activation drills do you do?
 

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,915
Had to abandon my squat halfway through my warm up sets. I got unexpected lower back pain (not bad - just sudden and uncomfortable) right at the bottom of the squat. I racked the bar for a minute and tried again, thinking it might have been a weird positional thing or not bracing correctly, but I really concentrated on my form and it happened again.

Luckily today is the last workout before I go on deload next week, so a weeklong rest will probably set things right. Still, it's frustrating.

I'm up in my head lately about whether or not I've been activating my glutes correctly during squats and not overworking my spine erectors, so I keep circling back to that as an explanation. At the top of the squat I brace by gripping the bar hard, sucking in my stomach and squeezing my glutes, but by the time I reach parallel, I can never tell if the glutes are still doing what they should.

I do 5/3/1 so my training weights are always very sub-maximal, but all the same, I've reached a point where I'm routinely squatting more than my body weight for 10 or more reps and I'm finding that good form makes more of a difference than it ever did previously. I want to make sure I'm not doing myself long term harm.

I'd rest it for a bit and try ramping up to your current squat later. It could just be a sprain. If it continues past that then I'd be more worried.
 

viciouskillersquirrel

Cheering your loss
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,874
Since I can't see you squat I can only comment on the glute stuff. What does your warm up look like? What activation drills do you do?
It's basically just kegels, if I remember, followed by some air squats. What I consistently do is to warm up by doing the movement at a light weight (based on a set percentage of my training max)

Warm up (always the same):
5 @ 40%
5 @ 50%
5 @ 60%

Main set (reps and percentages change week to week):
5 @ 75%
3 @ 85%
1+ @ 95% (this is minimum - you try for PRs on this set)

Supplementary volume work:
5 x 5 @ 75%

I'd rest it for a bit and try ramping up to your current squat later. It could just be a sprain. If it continues past that then I'd be more worried.
I'm taking the next week off anyway, so I'll have to see how I feel after. It's been a few months since I last did a deload.
 

jvalioli

Member
Oct 27, 2017
695
It's basically just kegels, if I remember, followed by some air squats. What I consistently do is to warm up by doing the movement at a light weight (based on a set percentage of my training max)

Warm up (always the same):
5 @ 40%
5 @ 50%
5 @ 60%

Main set (reps and percentages change week to week):
5 @ 75%
3 @ 85%
1+ @ 95% (this is minimum - you try for PRs on this set)

Supplementary volume work:
5 x 5 @ 75%


I'm taking the next week off anyway, so I'll have to see how I feel after. It's been a few months since I last did a deload.
I've run 531 before so I'm pretty familiar. Kegels though? Is that basically glute bridge work? Do your glutes actually activate during it or do your hamstrings activate instead? Banded squats instead of air squats would work better.

Here is my squat warmup if you want to borrow some things. It is long because my squatting has always been shit.

Core:
Shoulder crunches
Side plank
Bird dog or dead bug

Glutes:
Hip circle straight walk
Hip circle wide walk
Hip circle side walk
Hip circle squat
Glute bridge
Clam shells


Limbering up:
Pvx pipe passthroughs
Cat cow
Leg swings (front to back and side to side)
 
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viciouskillersquirrel

Cheering your loss
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,874
I've run 531 before so I'm pretty familiar. Kegels though? Is that basically glute bridge work? Do your glutes actually activate during it or do your hamstrings activate instead? Banded squats instead of air squats would work better.

Here is my squat warmup if you want to borrow some things. It is long because my squatting has always been shit.

Core:
Shoulder crunches
Side plank
Bird dog or dead bug

Glutes:
Hip circle straight walk
Hip circle wide walk
Hip circle side walk
Hip circle squat
Glute bridge
Clam shells


Limbering up:
Pvx pipe passthroughs
Cat cow
Leg swings (front to back and side to side)
I can't actually tell if it's my glutes or upper thighs that activate, now that you mention it. I have a few bands around the place, so I'll give banded squats a go while I recover.
 

Deleted member 984

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,203
Had to abandon my squat halfway through my warm up sets. I got unexpected lower back pain (not bad - just sudden and uncomfortable) right at the bottom of the squat. I racked the bar for a minute and tried again, thinking it might have been a weird positional thing or not bracing correctly, but I really concentrated on my form and it happened again.

Luckily today is the last workout before I go on deload next week, so a weeklong rest will probably set things right. Still, it's frustrating.

I'm up in my head lately about whether or not I've been activating my glutes correctly during squats and not overworking my spine erectors, so I keep circling back to that as an explanation. At the top of the squat I brace by gripping the bar hard, sucking in my stomach and squeezing my glutes, but by the time I reach parallel, I can never tell if the glutes are still doing what they should.

I do 5/3/1 so my training weights are always very sub-maximal, but all the same, I've reached a point where I'm routinely squatting more than my body weight for 10 or more reps and I'm finding that good form makes more of a difference than it ever did previously. I want to make sure I'm not doing myself long term harm.

Do you deadlift and/or do glute bridges?