Fitness |OT| A New Era Begins

[Deleted member 984]

Thanks for the help everyone!


So I'm 60KG and this converted to lbs is 132 which means I should take 90+gm a day? I train with light to moderate weights BTW

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Sounds about right you could go a bit higher if you wanted without any problem.

Muscle growth and recovery isn't just protein, fats and carbs are also just as important. As is fibre, vitamins and minerals. There is a bit too much of a focus on protein as it's the easiest to sell and got a huge markup.

 

[Sid]

Sounds about right you could go a bit higher if you wanted without any problem.

Muscle growth and recovery isn't just protein, fats and carbs are also just as important. As is fibre, vitamins and minerals. There is a bit too much of a focus on protein as it's the easiest to sell and got a huge markup.

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Thanks man, so I am using On Gold Standard Whey and read that it spikes insulin levels which could cause diabetes (as that's also in my family history), do you think this is true?

 

[Deleted member 984]

Thanks man, so I am using On Gold Standard Whey and read that it spikes insulin levels which could cause diabetes (as that's also in my family history), do you think this is true?

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I don't use supplements personally. I'm also not a dietician/Doctor so wouldn't really want to advise beyond the basics especially something involving diabetes.

 

[EtaMari]

Can anyone recommend any music that is nice to listen during the work out?

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Can anyone recommend any music that is nice to listen during the work out?

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I like the xenoblade chronicles soundtrack for calm/relaxing music, for something to get me more fired up i like Final Fantasy XV and Nier Automata Soundtracks. They're on youtube

 

[Mobius and Pet Octopus]

So I have been doing planks and plank push ups for a while now. Crunches from time to time and a few other things to work the abs. But ab wheel rollouts is the first time I actually feel it the next day. I also know I can improve form still, so there is ways of progression to be had.

 

[tellNoel]

So I have been doing planks and plank push ups for a while now. Crunches from time to time and a few other things to work the abs. But ab wheel rollouts is the first time I actually feel it the next day. I also know I can improve form still, so there is ways of progression to be had.

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AB roller is an exceptional workout for the core. I recommend hanging leg raises as well.

 

[Mobius and Pet Octopus]

AB roller is an exceptional workout for the core. I recommend hanging leg raises as well.

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Yeah, that is listed as an alternative to the ab wheel. I think I may stick with the wheel just for the fact that I already do dips and pull ups and my hands are usually a bit sore after that already. But maybe I will give them a shot some times. I think it is smart in general to mix it up, keep things a little interesting and prevent muscles from becoming to adjusted to a particular movement.

 

[Teggy]

I've been trying to hit 182.8 lbs because that would mark 30 lbs lost since my start of year weigh in. Three times this week I've stood on the scale and it's settled on 182.8...and then jumped to 183 😭

 

[tellNoel]

I've been trying to hit 182.8 lbs because that would mark 30 lbs lost since my start of year weigh in. Three times this week I've stood on the scale and it's settled on 182.8...and then jumped to 183 😭

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I wouldn't worry about that decimal amount too much if I were you. Especially since your weight fluctuates throughout the day.
If you are going to aim for something, aim for integers (so always round your weight up). Or else it'll just drive you crazy

 

[Teggy]

I wouldn't worry about that decimal amount too much if I were you. Especially since your weight fluctuates throughout the day.
If you are going to aim for something, aim for integers (so always round your weight up). Or else it'll just drive you crazy

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im not, I was just laughing at how silly it is 🤪

 

[jvalioli]

I've been trying to hit 182.8 lbs because that would mark 30 lbs lost since my start of year weigh in. Three times this week I've stood on the scale and it's settled on 182.8...and then jumped to 183 😭

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If it makes you feel any better: a lot of scales use memory for weights. Meaning you might weight 182.8 but the weight is so close to a previous weigh in at 183 then it adjusts the weight to 183 to be safe.

 

[Teggy]

If it makes you feel any better: a lot of scales use memory for weights. Meaning you might weight 182.8 but the weight is so close to a previous weigh in at 183 then it adjusts the weight to 183 to be safe.

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Well the silly reason is that my scale syncs to my phone, and until it says 182.8 I don't get the pretty myfitnesspal graph that shows -30 🤣

 

[Mobius and Pet Octopus]

The scale is such a poor measurement of progress tbh. Smarter to go by how clothes fit, or measurements etc.. The scale is prone to water fluctuations. I weigh 166 one day and 171 the next. Typically after a hard exercise day and depending on what I eat, etc..

 

[tellNoel]

Started my Cut a little over 8 weeks ago.
Went from 164-165 to 155lbs measured today.
I think I'll give it one more week and then start my next bulk.

it got a lot easier after the first month. Those first four weeks were terrible

 

[jvalioli]

The scale is such a poor measurement of progress tbh. Smarter to go by how clothes fit, or measurements etc.. The scale is prone to water fluctuations. I weigh 166 one day and 171 the next. Typically after a hard exercise day and depending on what I eat, etc..

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Nah, it is a good measurement that is often poorly used or interpreted.

Im on the second month or my cut and down 10lbs (180lbs) right now. I had a pretty bad week on terms of strength. It was hot this week and we don't have AC so I missed a ton of sleep. That + weight loss just straight drained me.

 

[Teggy]

The scale is such a poor measurement of progress tbh. Smarter to go by how clothes fit, or measurements etc.. The scale is prone to water fluctuations. I weigh 166 one day and 171 the next. Typically after a hard exercise day and depending on what I eat, etc..

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I mean, it's a trend over 9 months, I think it's fine to use it as one gauge of progress...

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Yeah, scale is great for tracking monthly progress, just dont obsess over the daily or weekly fluctuations.

I gained 10 lbs on my vacation, took it easy on carbs the week after and now im back to normal.

 

[Deleted member 984]

Started my Cut a little over 8 weeks ago.
Went from 164-165 to 155lbs measured today.
I think I'll give it one more week and then start my next bulk.

it got a lot easier after the first month. Those first four weeks were terrible

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I have the same scales.

Scales are a great measurement you just have to be aware that you will fluctuate dependent upon what you have eaten, if you have a had a piss or a shit, that sometimes you will be carrying extra water weight but over the long term you should be seeing clear trends.

 

[Mobius and Pet Octopus]

I mean, it's a trend over 9 months, I think it's fine to use it as one gauge of progress...

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I am not trying to criticize anyone, just saying that the scale is not that great. It shows weight loss, not what is lost and is prone to fluctuations. Yes, over months the fluctuations are not a big deal, but even over a month could seem like you have stalled and you have not actually stalled at all. I say this as someone who has weighed themselves every day for the last 6+ months. I do not think the data hurts to collect at all and is useful. Just not very useful imo alone and at times pretty useless.

 

[Teggy]

I am not trying to criticize anyone, just saying that the scale is not that great. It shows weight loss, not what is lost and is prone to fluctuations. Yes, over months the fluctuations are not a big deal, but even over a month could seem like you have stalled and you have not actually stalled at all. I say this as someone who has weighed themselves every day for the last 6+ months. I do not think the data hurts to collect at all and is useful. Just not very useful imo alone and at times pretty useless.

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In my case I know that all of my "skinny clothes" fit me around 190, so I am aiming for 170 so I have room to do a small lean bulk if I want. The scale allows me to see how I'm doing.

 

[Deleted member 984]

I am not trying to criticize anyone, just saying that the scale is not that great. It shows weight loss, not what is lost and is prone to fluctuations. Yes, over months the fluctuations are not a big deal, but even over a month could seem like you have stalled and you have not actually stalled at all. I say this as someone who has weighed themselves every day for the last 6+ months. I do not think the data hurts to collect at all and is useful. Just not very useful imo alone and at times pretty useless.

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That's why it is good to use a scale that also does impedance and tracks your data. Whilst not the most accurate for one off measurements and require you to be in a specific condition (which is hydrated, before a meal and before exercise) it will give you decent results and reveal trends and allow you to see if that is inline with your goal or not.

If hard numbers are important to you rather than looking for progress then you need to go for a dexa which is 99% accurate. Whereas impedance can be between 80 to 95% accurate dependent upon device.

 

[Teggy]

There we go

 

[Heromanz]

There we go

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Beautiful

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Had to abandon my squat again today. No pain this time, just took videos in front of a mirror and tried to work out what I might have done wrong.

Turns out that under a bit of load, my hips swivel forward (ie my butt sticks out) right at the bottom of the squat. It's sudden and involuntary and happens right at the moment it's hardest for me to see, so I hadn't noticed it happening before. Widening my stance further seems to alleviate the issue, but then my bar control goes to custard and it's like I'm trying to balance a broom on its end.

I'm think I'm either going to have to massively drop the weight I'm squatting or switch to something else while I recover. I already do lunges and split squats (both unweighted) as accessories. Could I add weight to the lunge and call it a day? Maybe substitute with hip thrusts?

 

[Tuorom]

Yeah, that is listed as an alternative to the ab wheel. I think I may stick with the wheel just for the fact that I already do dips and pull ups and my hands are usually a bit sore after that already. But maybe I will give them a shot some times. I think it is smart in general to mix it up, keep things a little interesting and prevent muscles from becoming to adjusted to a particular movement.

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Consistency is generally the best. You want to become adjusted.
Always increasing the challenge, ie. lengthening the lever arm, doing more reps, pauses, increasing weight, etc. is more important than changing it up. If you always change it up you'll never get good at any one technique.

Had to abandon my squat again today. No pain this time, just took videos in front of a mirror and tried to work out what I might have done wrong.

Turns out that under a bit of load, my hips swivel forward (ie my butt sticks out) right at the bottom of the squat. It's sudden and involuntary and happens right at the moment it's hardest for me to see, so I hadn't noticed it happening before. Widening my stance further seems to alleviate the issue, but then my bar control goes to custard and it's like I'm trying to balance a broom on its end.

I'm think I'm either going to have to massively drop the weight I'm squatting or switch to something else while I recover. I already do lunges and split squats (both unweighted) as accessories. Could I add weight to the lunge and call it a day? Maybe substitute with hip thrusts?

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How low do you go?
And I don't understand what you mean by your butt sticks out. Are you talking about posterior pelvic tilt?

Edit: If it is literally your butt sticks out more than usually, is it your glutes no longer activating? Your back takes all the hip extension strain?

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Consistency is generally the best. You want to become adjusted.
Always increasing the challenge, ie. lengthening the lever arm, doing more reps, pauses, increasing weight, etc. is more important than changing it up. If you always change it up you'll never get good at any one technique.


How low do you go?
And I don't understand what you mean by your butt sticks out. Are you talking about posterior pelvic tilt?

Edit: If it is literally your butt sticks out more than usually, is it your glutes no longer activating? Your back takes all the hip extension strain?

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I go down to just below parallel to the floor, which is about all I can manage. I have terrible hip flexibility. So yeah, it seems as though my glutes stop activating right at the bottom and the load goes into my lower back.

I could limit the range of motion so that I'm only going down as far as I can while maintaining good form, potentially, but it's really hard to gauge (like I said - I hadn't noticed it was happening) and I wouldn't be getting the full benefit of the movement anyway.

I'm considering hip thrusts because that will strengthen the glutes, hopefully to the point where I can squat cleanly no worries. It'll also let me continue to work out while allowing my back some rest.

 

[jvalioli]

I go down to just below parallel to the floor, which is about all I can manage. I have terrible hip flexibility. So yeah, it seems as though my glutes stop activating right at the bottom and the load goes into my lower back.

I could limit the range of motion so that I'm only going down as far as I can while maintaining good form, potentially, but it's really hard to gauge (like I said - I hadn't noticed it was happening) and I wouldn't be getting the full benefit of the movement anyway.

I'm considering hip thrusts because that will strengthen the glutes, hopefully to the point where I can squat cleanly no worries. It'll also let me continue to work out while allowing my back some rest.

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Did you do the glute activation work before you started squatting? Do your hips go out of wack on descent or ascent?

Post the video of you are comfortable with it.

 

[Tuorom]

I go down to just below parallel to the floor, which is about all I can manage. I have terrible hip flexibility. So yeah, it seems as though my glutes stop activating right at the bottom and the load goes into my lower back.

I could limit the range of motion so that I'm only going down as far as I can while maintaining good form, potentially, but it's really hard to gauge (like I said - I hadn't noticed it was happening) and I wouldn't be getting the full benefit of the movement anyway.

I'm considering hip thrusts because that will strengthen the glutes, hopefully to the point where I can squat cleanly no worries. It'll also let me continue to work out while allowing my back some rest.

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I would second glute thrusts. They make you really feel your booty working. Maybe also try reverse hyperextensions, they really isolate the extension of the hip.

You only need to go as far as parallel. Past that and your lower back gets involved because there is no more extension possible from your leg (I believe it technically goes to 15 degrees past parallel, but that's a generalization).

Also going to parallel on squats is fine. Also what does full benefit mean? Whatever you're doing gives you benefits. Doing just quarter squats gives benefits (sprinting for example). Don't worry about what is considered optimal, do what suits your body. Keeping it within your range is optimal for you.

Is increasing your range of motion your primary goal right now? If not I wouldn't worry about it. No shame in limiting your ROM so you don't potentially hurt yourself.

 

[jvalioli]

You only need to go as far as parallel. Past that and your lower back gets involved because there is no more extension possible from your leg (I believe it technically goes to 15 degrees past parallel, but that's a generalization).

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This depends on the width of your squat. Most people with decent flexibility should be able to get more from their hip joint than parallel if they squat with the correct positioning. This can be demonstrated by checking mobilization of the hip joint when lying down (requires 2 people to test). I did this for my GF the other day.

 

[Tuorom]

This depends on the width of your squat. Most people with decent flexibility should be able to get more from their hip joint than parallel if they squat with the correct positioning. This can be demonstrated by checking mobilization of the hip joint when lying down (requires 2 people to test). I did this for my GF the other day.

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That quote is for hip extension not the squat.

 

[jvalioli]

That quote is for hip extension not the squat.

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Ah, the reverse hyper? My mistake.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Did you do the glute activation work before you started squatting? Do your hips go out of wack on descent or ascent?

Post the video of you are comfortable with it.

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This morning I did glute bridges and marching hip lifts before I started squatting, plus the warm up protocol where I squat with the lower weights. It happens on the descent, right at the very bottom.

As for the video... I work out in my home gym, so I'm not what you'd call properly attired. I can try again on Thursday and post a vid then.

 

[jvalioli]

This morning I did glute bridges and marching hip lifts before I started squatting, plus the warm up protocol where I squat with the lower weights. It happens on the descent, right at the very bottom.

As for the video... I work out in my home gym, so I'm not what you'd call properly attired. I can try again on Thursday and post a vid then.

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lol ok. Probably for descent it is a flexibility issue and not glute weakness. If you're able you can check your warmup sets to see if the issue is present there also (may have same issue but with zero pain because of the load).

 

[Munti]

Since the thread-title is "fitness" and not "gym strength-training":

Since years I go to the gym but with some (rather big) breaks in between. But honestly, I never had much fun to do it.
I also have huge problems with the resting part and therefore my body feels sometimes as it is breaking apart.
Now with my new job it gets quite difficult to coordinate to go to the gym and I feel often stressed about that.

Next to the gym, I newly also go playing Volleyball now and it makes so much fun (but yeah, Volleyball is not an activity where you move all the time). It does so much fun in fact, that I'm thinking about to ditch the gym and join another group sports (maybe something like Yoga, Soccer or Ju-Jitsu and so on).

My question is: If I ditch the gym and do Volleyball + another activity, would I do enough for my overall fitness, or is the only way to consider yourself fit by go lifting weight in a gym?

 

[Deleted member 984]

Since the thread-title is "fitness" and not "gym strength-training":

Since years I go to the gym but with some (rather big) breaks in between. But honestly, I never had much fun to do it.
I also have huge problems with the resting part and therefore my body feels sometimes as it is breaking apart.
Now with my new job it gets quite difficult to coordinate to go to the gym and I feel often stressed about that.

Next to the gym, I newly also go playing Volleyball now and it makes so much fun (but yeah, Volleyball is not an activity where you move all the time). It does so much fun in fact, that I'm thinking about to ditch the gym and join another group sports (maybe something like Yoga, Soccer or Ju-Jitsu and so on).

My question is: If I ditch the gym and do Volleyball + another activity, would I do enough for my overall fitness, or is the only way to consider yourself fit by go lifting weight in a gym?

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Lifting on its own is pretty shit for overall fitness. If you want to improve certain types of strength or muscle mass then it's fantastic but Improving your VO2 max, endurance and a range of other things is vital for overall fitness levels and it doesn't do any of that.

Sports are much better for general fitness as you are using your body in a variety of ways in different planes of motion. It's still good to have some kind of resistance training but you don't have to go intense to get the benefits.

My numbers and flexibility before I started lifting were ridiculously good, they are still good but nowhere near to what they were except in strength and muscles mass which are now way better than I have ever had. When I hit my goal I will be broadening my training again.

 

[Jindrax]

Hi everyone!

Do you have tips for going from 12%BF to 10%? I can't seem to drop below...

(1m70, 69kg, gym 3 days a week)

 

[Heromanz]

Hi everyone!

Do you have tips for going from 12%BF to 10%? I can't seem to drop below...

(1m70, 69kg, gym 3 days a week)

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Continue cutting I guess losing that last 2% is always a bitch

 

[rokkerkory]

Hi everyone!

Do you have tips for going from 12%BF to 10%? I can't seem to drop below...

(1m70, 69kg, gym 3 days a week)

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Im also around 12% bf... it's really really hard to get to 10% or below. Ive done it once and got to 9.7%.

It was impossible to maintain with my schedule and lifestyle. But what got me there was 4 hiit days a week and 3-4 days of heavy lifting, super low fat and carbs and 2x my body weight in protein. Gluck!

 

[Cloudst69]

After more than a year without exercising (constantly) I decided it was time. Started friday with cardio and I'm planning to keep with it until I lose some fat. I'm planning to run everyday.

 

[Heromanz]

After more than a year without exercising (constantly) I decided it was time. Started friday with cardio and I'm planning to keep with it until I lose some fat. I'm planning to run everyday.

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You can run everyday, you have to fix a diet first.

 

[Mobius and Pet Octopus]

After more than a year without exercising (constantly) I decided it was time. Started friday with cardio and I'm planning to keep with it until I lose some fat. I'm planning to run everyday.

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It is very difficult long term to out-exercise a bad diet. But you can easily diet without any exercise, if your goal is to lose fat. Ideally, if your goal is to lose fat, the diet is doing the brunt of the work... like 90%. Cardio is more of a catalyst, gets your lymph moving and your heart pumping. That is why you should focus on diet first and incorporate exercise into it. Do not get me wrong, you can still do your cardio if you really like to, but if you nail the diet first then adding the cardio will enhance the results.

 

[Cloudst69]

It is very difficult long term to out-exercise a bad diet. But you can easily diet without any exercise, if your goal is to lose fat. Ideally, if your goal is to lose fat, the diet is doing the brunt of the work... like 90%. Cardio is more of a catalyst, gets your lymph moving and your heart pumping. That is why you should focus on diet first and incorporate exercise into it. Do not get me wrong, you can still do your cardio if you really like to, but if you nail the diet first then adding the cardio will enhance the results.

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I'm also doing a diet too, not too extreme at first, but doing some tuning to reach an optimal point. I already did a diet without exercises last year and lost about 8kg. Unfortunately I stopped paying attention to that and recovered all that lost weight. Exercises helps me keep focused and has the perks of being a healthy activity. My intent is to start with cardio this first month and then go back to lifting again.

 

[Navid]

Hi, been exercising again for about 3 months now... for the first 2 months I simply followed this program: https://darebee.com/programs/30-days-of-change.html Then this past month I kept doing the above while adding this to my evening workout with two 5.7kg dumbbells: https://darebee.com/programs/ironborn-program.html

I haven't really changed my diet, snacking a bit less but otherwise pretty much eating the same as before I started exercising. I'm 35 years of age and 175cm in height, over the past 3 months I've lost about 4-5 kg and currently at 67 kg in weight.

Now starting next month I was thinking about maybe changing up my morning program from the "30 days of Change" to maybe something like this: https://darebee.com/programs/30-days-of-hiit-advanced.html or potentially anything else someone here might recommend.

I also have weights I can add to the dumbbells that will bring them each up from 5.7kg to 9.7kg, but I'm still not sure as that might be too much?

Basically just looking for advise in regards to these potential changes or maybe alternative monthly program recommendations that don't really require equipment?

 

[Tuorom]

Since the thread-title is "fitness" and not "gym strength-training":

Since years I go to the gym but with some (rather big) breaks in between. But honestly, I never had much fun to do it.
I also have huge problems with the resting part and therefore my body feels sometimes as it is breaking apart.
Now with my new job it gets quite difficult to coordinate to go to the gym and I feel often stressed about that.

Next to the gym, I newly also go playing Volleyball now and it makes so much fun (but yeah, Volleyball is not an activity where you move all the time). It does so much fun in fact, that I'm thinking about to ditch the gym and join another group sports (maybe something like Yoga, Soccer or Ju-Jitsu and so on).

My question is: If I ditch the gym and do Volleyball + another activity, would I do enough for my overall fitness, or is the only way to consider yourself fit by go lifting weight in a gym?

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You can be fit and not go to the gym. Go play sports if that is more enjoyable for you.

The biggest benefit of the gym is the convenience of having all these training implements to use. But you don't have to go to the gym for resistance training, ie. strength and muscle mass. You can easily do resistance training at home with calisthenics and gymnastics.

I would very much recommend a martial art! They are fantastic for fitness. Jiu jitsu/Muay Thai/Tae Kwon Do/whatever is great for overall strength and endurance (and other things like mobility and power!).

 

[Mobius and Pet Octopus]

Hi, been exercising again for about 3 months now... for the first 2 months I simply followed this program: https://darebee.com/programs/30-days-of-change.html Then this past month I kept doing the above while adding this to my evening workout with two 5.7kg dumbbells: https://darebee.com/programs/ironborn-program.html

I haven't really changed my diet, snacking a bit less but otherwise pretty much eating the same as before I started exercising. I'm 35 years of age and 175cm in height, over the past 3 months I've lost about 4-5 kg and currently at 67 kg in weight.

Now starting next month I was thinking about maybe changing up my morning program from the "30 days of Change" to maybe something like this: https://darebee.com/programs/30-days-of-hiit-advanced.html or potentially anything else someone here might recommend.

I also have weights I can add to the dumbbells that will bring them each up from 5.7kg to 9.7kg, but I'm still not sure as that might be too much?

Basically just looking for advise in regards to these potential changes or maybe alternative monthly program recommendations that don't really require equipment?

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I do largely bodyweight exercises or calisthenics. Pull ups, dips, push ups, etc.. r/bodyweightfitness has a good routine for beginners https://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness/wiki/kb/recommended_routine. The only exercises I do with weights are deadlifts and squats, to hit the legs better although they have options without weights. It is all about progressing at your own pace and they start off with options for all types of starters and progression path alternatives if you do not like a particular exercise or do not have the equipment.

 

[TurtleSnatcher]

So my next Dexa scan is scheduled for next Monday. It will be 4 weeks since my last and about 8-9 week since the one a few months back.

Pretty excited to see the results. I will post them in here again. Hoping I'm below 20% body fat (I know that number would be way lower if it was just a caliper/bod pod test as Dexa always tends to be higher but way more accurate).

I'm really curious to see people's physiques here with 12% bf.. you guys must be shredded. I'm so jealous. On the bright side, I'm starting to see some ab definition now and I weighed in at 150.4lbs about 3 weeks ago and I'm still at 150.2 despite being at a 400-600 calorie deficit a day. I'm just happy to know I'm not losing much muscle it seems so I know the scan should be pretty decent.

 

[jvalioli]

So my next Dexa scan is scheduled for next Monday. It will be 4 weeks since my last and about 8-9 week since the one a few months back.

Pretty excited to see the results. I will post them in here again. Hoping I'm below 20% body fat (I know that number would be way lower if it was just a caliper/bod pod test as Dexa always tends to be higher but way more accurate).

I'm really curious to see people's physiques here with 12% bf.. you guys must be shredded. I'm so jealous. On the bright side, I'm starting to see some ab definition now and I weighed in at 150.4lbs about 3 weeks ago and I'm still at 150.2 despite being at a 400-600 calorie deficit a day. I'm just happy to know I'm not losing much muscle it seems so I know the scan should be pretty decent.

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I have a dexa scan on the 21st. Fwiw everyone looks different at the same body fat levels. I don't get any ab definition until I'm like 13%.

 

[Deleted member 984]

Does anyone know how to balance bodybuilding with other leisure focused fitness activities so you don't overtrain?

Really struggling to find a balance between weekly training then doing things I enjoy on the weekend. I've tried structuring activities around a deload week but it still just fucks me up all the same.

 

[EssBeeVee]

LMFAO. took pre. then took GNC sports pill which i didn't realize had a caffeine pill. basically had almost 600mg before 7pm LOL. didn't fall asleep until 2am. glad GNC also has no question return/exchange policy. i just wanted the ON Pills.