Fitness |OT| A New Era Begins

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,089
Need some advice. I had to go to the doctor recently about back and hip pain. I was told that at my age (I'm 39) I shouldn't be doing squats or heavy deadlifts anymore. I've been lifting heavy most of my life, but my doctor suggested maybe looking at trying to tone instead of lifting for bulk. Is it wise to do that as you hit middle age?
If you have the option i'd look for a physical therapist and ask his opinion, you need to find out exactly why you have pain during those lifts, then find corrective exercises you can do to address the problem, your form could be off or you could have an injury.

If you can't find or correct the issue then find replacement lifts that you can do. Alot of people can't back squat or deadlift, but usually there's a varation of those you can do, like a bulgarian split squat and stiff legged deadlift.

Also there's no such thing as tone muscle and bulk muscle, muscle growth is muscle growth, your size depends on how effective your diet,effort, programming, and rest are. High reps builds muscle, heavy reps build muscle, metabolic training grows muscle, eccentric training grows muscle.
 

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,323
Most doctors don't when it comes to fitness (and nutrition). Mostly because a good chunk of what they learned is 20 year old knowledge.

Crazy thing is that we know for a fact that heavy compound lifting is EXACTLY what you want to do as you age so as to mitigate bone density loss and reductions in testosterone.
 

Violence Jack

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,300
Thanks for all the replies. Got some really good advice to get me going again now that the meds have cleared up my pains. I believe my doctor was of the mindset that high reps/lower weight would help to tone, or at least let me continue lifting as I recover. But I definitely need to look towards getting rid of my football playing weight as I think it's effecting my lower body more as I'm getting older.

Seriously impressive DvdGzz. Your avatar has given me a new goal.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,337
Most doctors don't when it comes to fitness (and nutrition). Mostly because a good chunk of what they learned is 20 year old knowledge.

Crazy thing is that we know for a fact that heavy compound lifting is EXACTLY what you want to do as you age so as to mitigate bone density loss and reductions in testosterone.
Doctors are barely schooled on fitness/nutrition. The industry is dominated by big pharma. They just follow the standard of care or health guidelines, which largely lead to prescription drugs. Well, not all of them at least. But the majority are focused on prescribing drugs, not prescribing lifestyle or diet changes. It is real sad imo. I hope this changes but the money is in the pharmaceuticals, and repeat customers, so probably will not without outside intervention. And all I hear about on the political front is largely access and affordability, not so much on prevention or likewise.
 

HiLife

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,500
I’m really trying to get into jump roping nowadays. I actually prefer to do it in socks, or barefoot. I’ll still get shin pain and arch pain (guessing it stems from being flat footed?) but I much prefer it to running.
 

jvalioli

Member
Oct 27, 2017
332
Lost my grip on a 455lb pull but was able to rechalk and pull 495lb after. My grip is starting to become an issue. I wonder if I should learn hookgrip this training cycle. But anyway that puts me here for this week before I try to put on some more weight starting next week:

Weight: 175
OHP: 180
Bench: 285
Squat: 350
Deadlift: 495

I'm going to concentrate on improving grip strength and catching my squat up with my deadlift for the next few blocks.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,337
Apparently minimalist shoes, or even barefoot/socks only is a good way to train and a healthier way to live than using shoes all the time. I am interested enough to look into this.
 

MrRojan

Member
Jan 26, 2019
13
Kettlebell are so much fun right now. Doesn't feel like work. Makes me wanna get one of those boutique bells. IE Rogue or Kettlebell Kings.
 

jvalioli

Member
Oct 27, 2017
332
Apparently minimalist shoes, or even barefoot/socks only is a good way to train and a healthier way to live than using shoes all the time. I am interested enough to look into this.
It depends on the person and movement. Generally I recommend flats for beginners for non-oly lifting. Only look into specialized shoes when you have a bit more experience. I see a lot of people wearing weightlifting shoes when they don't really need them or for the wrong lifts in my gym pretty frequently.

It's pretty rare to see anyone in slippers that isn't an elite lifter.

I don't recommend going barefoot ever really. It's a little gross and doesn't have benefit over more common flats like Chuck's or Vans.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,337
I intend to start targeted keto diet (TKD) tomorrow. Been on a lean bulk for about a month and a half now. I am ready to try something new. Probably gonna do it for maybe 2 months. Basically TKD is adding carbs before or after exercise (I am consuming after). I have done plenty of research on this. Totally unnecessary to build muscle, but when paired with fasted training it looks like it may be optimal.

In short the reasoning is you are insulin sensitive due to being fasted, post workout, and keto in general. So breaking a fast under those conditions with carbs should cause a large insulin spike (and mTOR) and shuttle all the glucose and protein I consume into my insulin sensitive muscles. Meanwhile, my fat cells are insulin resistant which is natural occurrence as a result of free fatty acid oxidation occurring during exercise. Because the majority of the carbs will be stored as muscle glycogen and not in the liver, chances are I will not even be kicked out of ketosis but if I am it will be very short. Really interesting stuff imo.

I am still working out the specific foods I will use though. Probably strawberries/blueberries and rice cakes + protein from lean meat.
 

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,323
Yeah, I did that for a while. Worked pretty well, but it got to the point where my training was starting to suffer (higher rep / higher intensity stuff is definitely impacted).

Fine for lifting heavy / low reps with decent breaks though.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,337
Yeah, I did that for a while. Worked pretty well, but it got to the point where my training was starting to suffer (higher rep / higher intensity stuff is definitely impacted).

Fine for lifting heavy / low reps with decent breaks though.
Were you keto for a while though? I have read it could take as long as 3-6 months for athletes to become sufficiently fat adapted. I am past my 1 year keto anniversary and have been training fasted for 5ish months (actually quite a bit longer now that I think about it). It is really just my post-workout which is changing.
 

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,323
Yeah, it doesn't matter how "fat adapted" you are, there's a limit to how fast your body can provide energy to your muscles via those pathways. I mean, on a basic biological level. It's fine if you work out appropriately though.
 

Banglish

Member
Dec 16, 2017
133
Jesus that sounds complicated. Good luck Mobius. Let us know how the results turn out, interested to hear.

It's bulking time! *power rangers voice*
Got my ass in gear and got my weeks meal prep done. The cooking part wasn't bad at all, took me about 3 hours. Can probably get it down to 2.
Picked up the rest of my supplements and we're off.



5/3/1 for 12 weeks is the goal. Time to get after it.
 

Banglish

Member
Dec 16, 2017
133
Ain't that the damn truth. Stoked to hit the weights later today. I have a couple questions about the assistance work Wendler lays out in his pdf.

Sunday
Military Press – 5/3/1
Dips – 5 sets of 15 reps
Chin-ups – 5 sets of 10 reps

Monday
Deadlift – 5/3/1
Good Morning – 5 sets of 12 reps
Hanging Leg Raise – 5 sets of 15 reps


Wednesday
Bench Press - 5/3/1
Dumbbell Bench Press – 5 sets of 15 reps
Dumbbell Row – 5 sets of 10 reps

Friday
Squat - 5/3/1
Leg Press – 5 sets of 15 reps
Leg Curl – 5 sets of 10 reps

I have a hard time seeing myself hit 75 reps for pretty much all the assistance work. Think if I drop it to 3 sets I'll still be good? I'm pretty sure I read it in his pdf, but the thing isn't organized all too well - assistance sets should just be for muscle development. So get a decent pump out of em and just focus on the hitting the compound lifts well. Should I just forget about progression on assistance lifts then? I'm also think about swapping out the leg press/curl for front squats and lunges.
 

jvalioli

Member
Oct 27, 2017
332
Ain't that the damn truth. Stoked to hit the weights later today. I have a couple questions about the assistance work Wendler lays out in his pdf.

Sunday
Military Press – 5/3/1
Dips – 5 sets of 15 reps
Chin-ups – 5 sets of 10 reps

Monday
Deadlift – 5/3/1
Good Morning – 5 sets of 12 reps
Hanging Leg Raise – 5 sets of 15 reps


Wednesday
Bench Press - 5/3/1
Dumbbell Bench Press – 5 sets of 15 reps
Dumbbell Row – 5 sets of 10 reps

Friday
Squat - 5/3/1
Leg Press – 5 sets of 15 reps
Leg Curl – 5 sets of 10 reps

I have a hard time seeing myself hit 75 reps for pretty much all the assistance work. Think if I drop it to 3 sets I'll still be good? I'm pretty sure I read it in his pdf, but the thing isn't organized all too well - assistance sets should just be for muscle development. So get a decent pump out of em and just focus on the hitting the compound lifts well. Should I just forget about progression on assistance lifts then? I'm also think about swapping out the leg press/curl for front squats and lunges.
Are you asking if they are for hypertrophy? The assistance sets are for whatever you want them to be. You don't need to do what Wendler prescribes for them -- hardly anyone does.

You should progress on assistance exercises.
 

Banglish

Member
Dec 16, 2017
133
Are you asking if they are for hypertrophy? The assistance sets are for whatever you want them to be. You don't need to do what Wendler prescribes for them -- hardly anyone does.

You should progress on assistance exercises.
Ohh ok, THAT makes sense. The assistance work section was confounding because of the prescription but then also leaving it open at the same time lol.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,337
So I broke my fast today with sardines, a couple grapes, a couple strawberries, and 3 rice cakes. 60g of carbs (aimed for 50g, may adjust). Still well within ketogenic. I do not eat a lot fruit. Grapes were super sweet. Strawberries were less sweet but still delicious. Rice cakes were okay. Sardines still tasted best but I found myself eating the fruit super quick lol
 
Oct 25, 2017
396
I never meal prep. I dreaddddd it haha

Kudos to those that do it. I'm jealous.

Thankfully I have good resilience and can control myself on what I eat and what macros I eat daily w/o the need of a prepped meal to keep me steady.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,089
I get sick of the same meals :(
There's tons of recipes out there. Here's one i like that i modified a bit https://chefsavvy.com/slow-cooker-korean-beef/

You can use chicken, beef, or pork, whichever you want. I replace the brown sugar with stevia and add between 2-3 lbs of vegetables to it (I like Brocolli/Carrots/Peas the best).

There's thousands and thousands of recipes out there that will all taste different and you can make modifications to fit your tastes/macros.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,337
I have all these cooking options, but I tend to just throw a package of meat in the oven. Cook it. Fridge the rest. Eat it. Repeat. I occasionally grill the meat instead. I guess I could try making my chicken casserole in a slow cooker. Never had any issue baking it though.
 
Oct 25, 2017
396
There's tons of recipes out there. Here's one i like that i modified a bit https://chefsavvy.com/slow-cooker-korean-beef/

You can use chicken, beef, or pork, whichever you want. I replace the brown sugar with stevia and add between 2-3 lbs of vegetables to it (I like Brocolli/Carrots/Peas the best).

There's thousands and thousands of recipes out there that will all taste different and you can make modifications to fit your tastes/macros.
I usually like to make in bulk though if I'm meal prepping. My current plan though is fine. I tend to mix things up daily and seems to be working well :)

Thank you though for the link!
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,337
I think I am ready to change from bodyweight pull ups to weighted pull ups. Which is kinda funny cause I am kinda already doing weighted pull ups atm due to added weight from bulking.
 

HiLife

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,500
Love starting my mornings off with a green smoothie. All kinds of leafy greens I wouldn’t ever eat in my life (I usually opt for broccoli with my dinners) and blended in with an apple or a banana.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,337
I made avocado mayo today for the first time. Cost about a third of the price of store brand avocado mayo (not that soy/canola toxic shit) and may taste even better tbh.
 

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,323
So I'm apparently fucked again. Just been in hospital having a battery of tests as for the past couple of weeks I've been unable to exercise (heart rate rockets, get out of breath doing anything as strenuous as walking up stairs).

I just want to be healthy and get on with my training / recovery. All so fucking tedious.
 

Banglish

Member
Dec 16, 2017
133
I never meal prep. I dreaddddd it haha

Kudos to those that do it. I'm jealous.

Thankfully I have good resilience and can control myself on what I eat and what macros I eat daily w/o the need of a prepped meal to keep me steady.
I feel that. I was not looking forward to it as the best thing I can cook is scrambled eggs lol. Once I got in to it though it isn't all that bad, and actually got kinda fun.

So I'm apparently fucked again. Just been in hospital having a battery of tests as for the past couple of weeks I've been unable to exercise (heart rate rockets, get out of breath doing anything as strenuous as walking up stairs).

I just want to be healthy and get on with my training / recovery. All so fucking tedious.
That sounds terrible. Do they have an idea of what might be happening, or not till results come back from the testing?
 

Mahonay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,291
Pencils Vania
Still slowing cracking away with 5X5 as my introduction to barbell lifting. It’s been great!

Definitely already seeing muscle growth in areas I’ve never built up before when I was just doing home workouts with free weights. Also love how it all revolves around barbell squats on every work out day. Slowly upping the weight every time makes it fun.

Other than that I‘ve upped my calorie intake a bit and started with daily fish oil pills and creatine supplement with my protein shake. I seem to be heading into a lean and dense direction which is what I want.

Between this, quitting drinking, and eating better, this is the best I’ve ever felt in my life.
 

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,165
Need some advice. I had to go to the doctor recently about back and hip pain. I was told that at my age (I'm 39) I shouldn't be doing squats or heavy deadlifts anymore. I've been lifting heavy most of my life, but my doctor suggested maybe looking at trying to tone instead of lifting for bulk. Is it wise to do that as you hit middle age?
How's your glute strength? Do you use your lower back a lot when deadlifting (and in your overall workout)?

Leg strength is a big indicator for health as you age as it helps with moving, balance, and not falling. Muscles are the largest organ in the body and should be kept strong.
 

Violence Jack

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,300
How's your glute strength? Do you use your lower back a lot when deadlifting (and in your overall workout)?

Leg strength is a big indicator for health as you age as it helps with moving, balance, and not falling. Muscles are the largest organ in the body and should be kept strong.
I think I unknowingly compensate for my bad knees with my lower back when deadlifting. I've found a way to keep my leg muscles strong though.
 

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,165
I think I unknowingly compensate for my bad knees with my lower back when deadlifting. I've found a way to keep my leg muscles strong though.
Your erector spinae is not really designed to be a mover, it is like the abs. It's for stability. Your glutes should be doing any hinge work by pushing your hips forward to create an upright posture.
Try doing glute bridges and hip extensions without using your lower back. Even just try flexing your butt standing up and while sitting.


Your hip can only really extend until it is parallel, afterwards your hips pitch forward and you extend your lower back.

Then your abs play a role in keeping your pelvis in a good position, with something like the hollow body. Where your main ab attaches on the pelvis should pull up so that your back is flat against the ground.


Probably the 2 most important areas to strengthen, dat booty and the abdominals. Everything runs through them.
 

Violence Jack

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,300
Your erector spinae is not really designed to be a mover, it is like the abs. It's for stability. Your glutes should be doing any hinge work by pushing your hips forward to create an upright posture.
Try doing glute bridges and hip extensions without using your lower back. Even just try flexing your butt standing up and while sitting.


Your hip can only really extend until it is parallel, afterwards your hips pitch forward and you extend your lower back.

Then your abs play a role in keeping your pelvis in a good position, with something like the hollow body. Where your main ab attaches on the pelvis should pull up so that your back is flat against the ground.


Probably the 2 most important areas to strengthen, dat booty and the abdominals. Everything runs through them.
Thank you. I'll give this a try
 

Nature

Member
Nov 1, 2017
506
Speaking of abs and stability... I read about a certain scientific study published a couple years ago on reddit that has some interesting info on muscle activation while doing pull ups.

According to the study the muscle group activated the most during traditional pull ups are the abs! Even more interestingly the lats are behind both the abs and biceps in terms of muscle activation. So if this is true, then pull ups are more of an core and arm exercise than back exercise.

All the more reason to be doing pull ups if you care about big biceps or a strong core, if you aren't already. But with this in mind maybe pullups probably shouldnt be your main back exercise, you gotta do them rows too!

Personally I've been greasing the groove with pull ups the last month or so and its blowing up my arms, forearms included, more than any isolation work I've done.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
1,793
Speaking of abs and stability... I read about a certain scientific study published a couple years ago on reddit that has some interesting info on muscle activation while doing pull ups.

According to the study the muscle group activated the most during traditional pull ups are the abs! Even more interestingly the lats are behind both the abs and biceps in terms of muscle activation. So if this is true, then pull ups are more of an core and arm exercise than back exercise.

All the more reason to be doing pull ups if you care about big biceps or a strong core, if you aren't already. But with this in mind maybe pullups probably shouldnt be your main back exercise, you gotta do them rows too!

Personally I've been greasing the groove with pull ups the last month or so and its blowing up my arms, forearms included, more than any isolation work I've done.
Wait what? I do chin-ups on Mondays, dumbbell rows on Wednesdays and wide-grip pull-ups on Fridays as my back exercises.

Have my accessories for the past year have been based on bad info?
 

DvdGzz

Member
Mar 21, 2018
1,813
Yeah, screw prep. I wing my diet and my workouts. Love it. I hate constraints. I am under enough stress with my workouts, managing my time to workout, being a father/husband. Bills etc. I can't do food prep on top. I eat what I want while ensuring sufficient protein intake and I do fullbody workouts so I look forward to every one. Get the legs out of the way first and finish with favorites. After 20 years, this is what works for me. Flexible dieting ftw.
 

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,323
Wait what? I do chin-ups on Mondays, dumbbell rows on Wednesdays and wide-grip pull-ups on Fridays as my back exercises.

Have my accessories for the past year have been based on bad info?
Read this (and others in the series) for the best exercises for muscle activation: https://suppversity.blogspot.com/2011/07/suppversity-emg-series-rectus-abdominis.html

Yeah, screw prep. I wing my diet and my workouts. Love it. I hate constraints. I am under enough stress with my workouts, managing my time to workout, being a father/husband. Bills etc. I can't do food prep on top. I eat what I want while ensuring sufficient protein intake and I do fullbody workouts so I look forward to every one. Get the legs out of the way first and finish with favorites. After 20 years, this is what works for me. Flexible dieting ftw.
That's exactly why I prep. If I didn't, I'd eat complete shite. To be clear though, I don't mean "this is what I'm going to eat over the next 7 days", it's "my freezer and fridge are full of a massive amount of high protein healthy foods".
 

DvdGzz

Member
Mar 21, 2018
1,813
That's exactly why I prep. If I didn't, I'd eat complete shite. To be clear though, I don't mean "this is what I'm going to eat over the next 7 days", it's "my freezer and fridge are full of a massive amount of high protein healthy foods".
High protein here as well, but I do supplements and vitamins. I eat "junk" pretty often. It isn't junk to me, it keeps me on track and sane. At 38 years of age, I have perfect bloodwork so until something changes, I'll keep it up. I could never stick to healthy foods for 95% of my intake. I did that off and on for the first ten years but I would always rebound and get fat again. I'd constantly binge from the deprivation. We all have to find what works for us.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,337
Speaking of abs and stability... I read about a certain scientific study published a couple years ago on reddit that has some interesting info on muscle activation while doing pull ups.

According to the study the muscle group activated the most during traditional pull ups are the abs! Even more interestingly the lats are behind both the abs and biceps in terms of muscle activation. So if this is true, then pull ups are more of an core and arm exercise than back exercise.

All the more reason to be doing pull ups if you care about big biceps or a strong core, if you aren't already. But with this in mind maybe pullups probably shouldnt be your main back exercise, you gotta do them rows too!

Personally I've been greasing the groove with pull ups the last month or so and its blowing up my arms, forearms included, more than any isolation work I've done.
Yes, I came across that study as well. This is why bringing your legs forward makes it easier, because you are making it easier on your abs. I do not think that necessarily means pull ups are great for ab growth but they are definitely used.

I am up to 8 pull ups with 4 sets. I think I may start adding weights today actually. I am about 6-7 pounds heavier than I was 2 months ago, so I feel like I have progressed faster than I thought.
 

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,323
High protein here as well, but I do supplements and vitamins. I eat "junk" pretty often. It isn't junk to me, it keeps me on track and sane. At 38 years of age, I have perfect bloodwork so until something changes, I'll keep it up. I could never stick to healthy foods for 95% of my intake. I did that off and on for the first ten years but I would always rebound and get fat again. I'd constantly binge from the deprivation. We all have to find what works for us.
I don't eat "healthy" foods, unless I'm in a month before a race (and only then because they're basically the lowest calorie options). I do make sure I get a decent amount of salad / fruit / vegetables, though probably not the 7 a day or whatever madness it is now.