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Flaw Ass Moron Ken Levine makes pathetic argument to defend transphobic covid-19 denier Gina Carano
- Thread starter Daniel Westlake
- Start date
I still don't comprehend why this story line is in there at all. Absolutely unnecessary and proves that he really wanted this narrative to be in there.
This guy tried to make nuanced games but with him being so limited, they ended up being his highly distorted personal views on history and society based on very uneducated perspectives.
This never, ever works.
There has to be pushback and de-platforming.
I had a friend in High school who, no kidding, used to say "nazis had many good things that we should strive to imitate, just leave out the jew killing". At 18, not 14! Unsurprisingly, he got many, MANY odd glances after that kind of declarations.
It's been truly bizarre seeing so many people drawing battle lines over this particular incident, and many of them with the weirdest of arguments.
Ted Cruz still takes the cake for claiming this woman was a great role model for young girls because her character was bad-ass right from the start and not some "emotionally tortured Jedi". So leaving aside the social media comments as role model material, he's also saying a female who overcomes personal turmoil and emotional strife to become a hero is a poor role model.
I just don't understand why people being dicks to entire ethnic and religious groups is now a political battleground.
Ted Cruz still takes the cake for claiming this woman was a great role model for young girls because her character was bad-ass right from the start and not some "emotionally tortured Jedi". So leaving aside the social media comments as role model material, he's also saying a female who overcomes personal turmoil and emotional strife to become a hero is a poor role model.
I just don't understand why people being dicks to entire ethnic and religious groups is now a political battleground.
Oh my god you are so right, this as become insufferable. I now, shut down conversations with people using oppresion/free speech all around, especially when they don't even take the time to read more into what has been said and why. Like Ken Levine here.
On one hand I kind of agree that someone should not lose their job because of their personal opinions outside their job and their private life, because that opens a can of worms that works on both directions: people getting fired or sidelined because of their progressive ideas or stated opinions on social media.
On other hand Gina Carano is not just some random person, she's a public face, a famous individual that represents, inherently the company she works for. When you work for Disney, you can't shut your mouth and keep saying stupid, racist and transphobic stuff you are exposing yourself as a public figure and whatever your work will have that attached.
You work on one of the most relevant cultural works in the moment, your character is well loved and it opens a lot of work opportunities for the future and the only thing is that if you are a shitty person all that you need to do is shut your mouth, learn from Chris Pratt.
So Levine is wrong, because at the end is jst business, it does not have to improve his life or anyones for that matter, is just now being a shitty person,even a privilaged one, can have consequences and that is good. As a public face you can just show how much of a trash of individual you are publicly, at least you should keep it in wraps as far as you can like Whedon.
On other hand Gina Carano is not just some random person, she's a public face, a famous individual that represents, inherently the company she works for. When you work for Disney, you can't shut your mouth and keep saying stupid, racist and transphobic stuff you are exposing yourself as a public figure and whatever your work will have that attached.
You work on one of the most relevant cultural works in the moment, your character is well loved and it opens a lot of work opportunities for the future and the only thing is that if you are a shitty person all that you need to do is shut your mouth, learn from Chris Pratt.
So Levine is wrong, because at the end is jst business, it does not have to improve his life or anyones for that matter, is just now being a shitty person,even a privilaged one, can have consequences and that is good. As a public face you can just show how much of a trash of individual you are publicly, at least you should keep it in wraps as far as you can like Whedon.
We have to stop framing it as "personal opinions"
Being a QAnon/Anti-vaccer/bigot etc etc is not "personal opinions"
On a conceptual level we could agree, but some statements are not opinions. Gina liking Coke more than Pepsi is an opinion. Suggesting that certain parties (let's generously forget the climate said party provoked) is being treated like a prosecuted and mass-murdered group...it's insanely moronic and hateful rhetoric. if she was a hermit, it could have flown. As a public figure, no fucking way you can let that pass without tacitly endorsing those views. And seeing there has been no apology tour, one would think she wholeheartedly believes in that.
That Ken Levine made employees have a clause in their contracts saying he could fire them no-strings-attached if they had opinions he didn't like, basically.
I mean....yes. shity comments but I've no doubt the game will still be good.
'Bioshock' studio Irrational Games is closing so Ken Levine can start something new
https://www.theverge.com/2014/2/18/5422846/bioshock-studio-irrational-games-closing
Irrational Games closure led to 75 layoffs, job fair hosted 57 studios
https://www.polygon.com/2014/2/28/5458470/irrational-games-closure-layoffs-75-job-fair-57-studios
https://www.theverge.com/2014/2/18/5422846/bioshock-studio-irrational-games-closing
Irrational Games closure led to 75 layoffs, job fair hosted 57 studios
https://www.polygon.com/2014/2/28/5458470/irrational-games-closure-layoffs-75-job-fair-57-studios
Change opinions for ideology or ideas that make someone a shitty person. There's a lot of shitty people with jobs and they should not lose their jobs solely for that. Because for the longest time it worked the other way around.
This case is clearly different, becuse unlike other shitty people on the industry or even in the MCU, they are shitty but they aren't shitty on public, because they should meet with different standards as normal people. At least if you are famous and you are a piece of trash you should keep your mouth shut and if you can also try not be a piece of trash in your job either like Whedon.
Yes they should. Someone ideologically aligned with ISIS cannot be expected to retain employment. A homophone or sexist or any kind of bigot has no place in a safe/functional workplace.
Unless they affect or hurt people on their workplace or others related to their work they shouldn't as long they kept those ideas for themselves and from others in their own privacy.
They are hurting those people by advocating and spreading those ideas which leads directly to harm to those groups. It cannot be tolerated and must be deplatformed. Employers cannot, even tacitly through inaction, endorse those views.
She wasn't fired for having a stupid opinion but by negatively impacting the brand. This is about money dollars not about making Bioshock Guy feel good.
So if you don't do activism you should be fired? If you don't vote progressive parties you should get fired? What social guidelines and progressive ideas they should actvely follow outside of their work so they can work for a living?
Being a celebrity with a massive audience and sharing those views on a public social media account means you're actively endorsing, at best, affecting and hurting people at your workplace (and beyond)
And as I said being a celebrity is a different case, I was talking about normal everyday people.
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Feels less like he was far less concerned with the actual story and more concerned with making something that he could call "nuanced" regardless of any actual meaning behind it.
Since Ken's libertarian ass doesn't give a shit about the Holocaust and trans oppression, there's also the tiny issue of participating in a harassment campaign against a Lucasfilm employee.
Also he's just wrong (shocking I know). Everyone benefits from Disney diminishing the reach of someone who minimizes the Holocaust in order to claim that being a hated white cis person who actively supports fascist terrorism is akin to being a Holocaust victim. Gina is promoting the idea that she is so much more important than Jewish people that her Twitter feedback is equal to enduring genocide.
But this is the same white guy who actually believes putting an oppressed Black woman in charge of a society would lead to violent oppression. So not really someone worth listening to.
Also he's just wrong (shocking I know). Everyone benefits from Disney diminishing the reach of someone who minimizes the Holocaust in order to claim that being a hated white cis person who actively supports fascist terrorism is akin to being a Holocaust victim. Gina is promoting the idea that she is so much more important than Jewish people that her Twitter feedback is equal to enduring genocide.
But this is the same white guy who actually believes putting an oppressed Black woman in charge of a society would lead to violent oppression. So not really someone worth listening to.
The only thing that makes the Vox Populi in BI worse is the DLC where it shows that Daisy consented to the "oppressed become oppressors" thing, including the part where she would literally die for the sake of Elizabeth's character development. Like of all the tone deaf headass bullshit you could put into a setting literally drenched with blatant racism and the oppressed rising up....you put THIS in there as a sort of "gotcha":
Levine sucks but this is incredibly common for actors/actresses. They're literally trained to be able to do handle situations involving the deliberate invoking of negative emotions that non actors/actresses struggle with. All those amazing crying scenes in movies, cartoons, anime, video games, etc. don't just come out of thin air.
Levine sucks but this is incredibly common for actors/actresses. They're literally trained to be able to do handle situations involving the deliberate invoking of negative emotions that non actors/actresses struggle with. All those amazing crying scenes in movies, cartoons, anime, video games, etc. don't just come out of thin air.
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When you are an actress and you real life behaviour tints how your character is perceived, you can always make a case for the need to separate via rescinding contract.
And as I said public faces, like actors, politics and etc are obviously excluded from that statement, because their public and sometimes private pressence has an overaching effect to their work.
User Banned (1 Month): Dismissive commentary around bigotry over multiple posts
Those people can be deplataformed, ostracized and alienated from society even, but that does not mean they shouldn't be able to have food on their table every night because they can't pass their monthly biogtry test.
When you are a public face, of course that's different, because your public image and sometimes private image has a reach that inherently affects your work.
People's beliefs manifest through them, their work and private selves aren't wholly separate entities. I'm pretty sure my work would immediately try to cut ties with an employee if they made it known they believe the dangerous bullshit she does.
First, it's just not a good look for the company, it'd certainly make some clients not want to work with us. Second, nobody wants that in the workplace on the chance some covid denying asshole talks with and drags a colleague with them down the bullshit rabbit hole, eventually leading to someone suffering because of it. Cut the poison off before it spreads.
A lot of people can and does, I saw it and in other times your work does not really allows for that in any case. One of my co-workers was a libertarian that often criticized taxes, it didn't manifets in his job, there was no way.
He often talked how useless taxes are with other people and he cracked a couple of racist jobs with some of us drinking a few beers outside of work. No I don't think he had to be fired for that. Poison is everywhere these days and as adults we should already know where we stand in these issues and we have the power to how we relate to people is as easy as to not invite him again to those social meetings.
A line has to be drawn somewhere and this line wasn't just crossed it was leapt over multiple times. Im sure she'll find work, just like plenty of other bigots.
I wasn't talking about this case at all. I did say that she should have kept their mouth closed, because Disney and the industry in general asks very little of their stars even if they can be shitty people.
I can't stand this idea that there being consequences to your actions, especially at work, is somehow a new fangled thing.
If you marched up and down the street shouting conspiracy theories (basically the past equivalent of Twitter) in your spare time there is a good chance your employer would ask you to stop or fire you.
If you loudly broadcast criticisms of your company (no matter how valid) there is a good chance there would be repercussions. This isn't new. There's loads of ways we monitor and edit our speech as part of our working lives.
Accountability hasn't changed, it's just easier for people to broadcast that they are morons.
If you marched up and down the street shouting conspiracy theories (basically the past equivalent of Twitter) in your spare time there is a good chance your employer would ask you to stop or fire you.
If you loudly broadcast criticisms of your company (no matter how valid) there is a good chance there would be repercussions. This isn't new. There's loads of ways we monitor and edit our speech as part of our working lives.
Accountability hasn't changed, it's just easier for people to broadcast that they are morons.
Nah, if you say some offensive shit of course you'll get fired. That's common fucking sense, of which Gina had none.
Privileged-ass folks seem to think they are entitled to keep their job regardless of what they do. Shit don't work that way.
Privileged-ass folks seem to think they are entitled to keep their job regardless of what they do. Shit don't work that way.
Ken Levine
But what does that have to do with what happened here?
In what way did Gina Carano "keep their ideas to themselves and from others"?
Unless you did this with the intent to minimise and downplay what happened here and why, ask yourself why you are bringing this unrelated hypothetical up in a thread about a specific incident, and consider your motivations for doing so.
Understand that for the people harmed by Gina Carano's actions this is not some whimsical thought experiment that provokes a discussion. It is a real and present danger to their existence.
Ken Levine brought the hipotetical:
He put Gina's case at the same level as the guy who makes bolts on a fabric all day who did some dumb facebook post in their free time. The whole line of though is that is not the same and never downplayed what Gina did.
That's the whole trap of his argument: that supporting Gina being fired means you will support that guy who works making car pieces should be fired too if they voted Trump.
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They can choose between their bigotry and their living.
No employer is required to keep a Klansmen on staff.
No employer is require to keep a Nazi on staff.
No employer is required to a keep an Isis terrorist on staff.
They are a danger to the very existence of entire classes of people.
I wonder how being a Klansmen in the police force would inherently affect that person's work?
I wonder how a homophobe in HR would inherently affect that person's work?
I wonder how white supremacist teacher would inherently affect that person's work?
Lets not pearl clutch over the hypothetical economic anxieties of bigots and terrorists.
Probably how they got the job.
But how will they put food on their table?