That account by Choice of being admonished by a random for running an early WotLK dungeon in WoW Classic with non-optimal gear is chilling. You'd never see something like that in FFXIV.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Folding Ideas (Dan Olson) - Why It's Rude to Suck at Warcraft
- Thread starter Khanimus
- Start date
kinda, but I feel like it's easier to write off your opponents being a salty scrub and if they don't like me throwing fireballs from full screen they can do something about it :p
The talk about how best practices spread top down is something I've thought about, particularly the terminology.
If you play fighting games and try to learn them via the community (wikis, discords, meetups etc) you'll eventually run into terms like okizeme, kara, yomi etc and what they have in common is that they're all Japanese words. Which is a result of Japanese players dominating the genre for much of its existence and as a result others have adopted their tactics, techniques and even their words.
But in a different genre, FPS, Japanese gamers have very little history, and in recent years titles like Apex Legends and Valorant has increased the popularity of the genre in Japan.
So what terminology does Japanese gamers use to describe the tactics and techniques of Valorant?
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq9xU7Ys8BU
Watch this video explain to you such strategies as "Retake" "Fake" and "Stack"
Gamer pidgin is a real language.
All the Neuromancer and Bladerunner inspired cyberpunk with their English-Japanese-French-Spanish based pidgins got it wrong!
The language of Bezos' Amazon warehouse on the moon will be a WoW-LoL-CSGO-PUBG based pidgin.
If you play fighting games and try to learn them via the community (wikis, discords, meetups etc) you'll eventually run into terms like okizeme, kara, yomi etc and what they have in common is that they're all Japanese words. Which is a result of Japanese players dominating the genre for much of its existence and as a result others have adopted their tactics, techniques and even their words.
But in a different genre, FPS, Japanese gamers have very little history, and in recent years titles like Apex Legends and Valorant has increased the popularity of the genre in Japan.
So what terminology does Japanese gamers use to describe the tactics and techniques of Valorant?
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq9xU7Ys8BU
Watch this video explain to you such strategies as "Retake" "Fake" and "Stack"
Gamer pidgin is a real language.
All the Neuromancer and Bladerunner inspired cyberpunk with their English-Japanese-French-Spanish based pidgins got it wrong!
The language of Bezos' Amazon warehouse on the moon will be a WoW-LoL-CSGO-PUBG based pidgin.
There's definitely people who need to watch this as this video is about them.
I'm looking at you Destiny PvE endgame community/Raid Report goblins.
I want to play a game, not turning my leisure time into a job. And what you said last is also the same for me. I'm still waiting for a true MMORPG though, with an insistence on the RPG part. I want to play a true multiplayer role playing experience and not a Diablo-like disguised as a rpg, but that's me.
I think EVE might be that but that seems... complicated. And I'd rather play an heroic fantasy game rather than a sci-fi one.
Bungie has been good about it so far by keeping the elitists at bay in PvE and PvP.
I got my fiancee to play FFXIV for a little bit, and I told her how the community was generally a lot more supportive and positive than a lot of other MMOs or online games. The first time she partied up for a dungeon, there was an absolutely obnoxious jackass complaining about the tank. The tank fired back. It didn't matter who was right or wrong. This was a newbie dungeon. There shouldn't have been much expectation.
But there it was. The toxicity I had assured her was rare in the game, but present the first time she even entered a group.
She never touched the game again.
You never really know who's time you've ruined.
But there it was. The toxicity I had assured her was rare in the game, but present the first time she even entered a group.
She never touched the game again.
You never really know who's time you've ruined.
This was pretty much my experience with the game as well. Had heard so much about how accommodating and helpful the community is, queued up for my first ever dungeon (Sastasha) and got put with a bunch of people sprinting toward the end, pulling every single monster but never stopping to fight or play through it normally. First ever mmo dungeon for me, but everyone else just wanted to get it over with to get their roulette rewards. I haven't gone back. I keep wanting to but the entire genre is actively hostile to new players with performance anxiety.
Haven't watched this video yet, but imo there's a time and a place for concerns over optimisation and it's high end raiding. If you are doing public duty roulettes or whatever the WoW equivalent is and get pissed that someone isn't playing very effectively, touch grass lmao. You're playing the beginner content, get out of the paddling pool if other player's skill level is such a big issue. Or just do expert roulette once a day for a week or something to get your tomes cap (and if you want it to go fast, go in as tank or healer)
But in savage and such, you really do need to develop the thicker skin needed to talk about these things in a non toxic way, but in a way that doesn't mean you are wasting people's time for months on end. Not doing so can be a form of toxic positivity that makes everyone miserable, maybe more miserable than if people were being overt assholes. And for this I think the 'addons' people are talking about are hugely important. But using these addons for casual content is really silly, big fish in a small pond type stuff. Nobody cares if you parse gold on a Nier raid where everyone was failing mechanics cause it was their first time.
I think the latter group are maybe low key burnt out and are bored by not everyone being at the same level of execution as them (but again, in beginner content) and just vent that by lashing out at people. These same people wouldn't touch the high end content at all, or are probably rubbish at it. Least that's what I think, cause if they did they would surely have the perspective that admonishing players for being bad in casual content is fucking stupid
But in savage and such, you really do need to develop the thicker skin needed to talk about these things in a non toxic way, but in a way that doesn't mean you are wasting people's time for months on end. Not doing so can be a form of toxic positivity that makes everyone miserable, maybe more miserable than if people were being overt assholes. And for this I think the 'addons' people are talking about are hugely important. But using these addons for casual content is really silly, big fish in a small pond type stuff. Nobody cares if you parse gold on a Nier raid where everyone was failing mechanics cause it was their first time.
I think the latter group are maybe low key burnt out and are bored by not everyone being at the same level of execution as them (but again, in beginner content) and just vent that by lashing out at people. These same people wouldn't touch the high end content at all, or are probably rubbish at it. Least that's what I think, cause if they did they would surely have the perspective that admonishing players for being bad in casual content is fucking stupid
WoW is the only game I've ever experienced people whinging at me for not knowing all the perfect strats developed by pro players in the closed beta test of the latest expac at the time
Like this healer just could not believe that someone had the audacity to not know everything by heart before the new content has even released
Like this healer just could not believe that someone had the audacity to not know everything by heart before the new content has even released
Want to know something crazy? Jon made his videos in Google Earth
The last time I played WoW, which was way back when Lich King released, I was doing an instance with some friends. They had ran it before, I was new to it. At some point, we had to press a sequence of buttons. I got the timing wrong, which reset the puzzle and one of my friends exploded at me like "FFS, I TOLD YOU HOW TO DO IT, YOU IDIOT!". I never played with those friends again.
Gaming brings out weird things in people.
Last edited:
The interesting part of watching this from the perspective of a longtime FFXIV player is definitely how FFXIV avoided alot of the toxic elements of it. Yoshida has put his foot down on some things showcased in this video, which really kinda shows what happens when you don't, and just let it run wild.
I've seen the drama that happens within FGC local communities through close friends, that's absolutely not for me, lmao.
And people regularly beg for a new tank class on the forums, not realizing the community's behavior is at fault for the shortage of tank players.
That was a huge oversight.
The only good thing I'll say about the system is that it seems to make people less anal about normal and heroic dungeons by comparison. The timers should be removed as a requirement for gear to encourage players to finish.
You still get gear if you don't time a dungeon. Personally, I play a lot of M+ and it isn't that punishing, especially at lower keystone levels. The system is quite clearly an endgame activity that you can choose to participate in, and if people do join my groups I do expect a baseline level of competence and engagement. That's just polite to the four other people who you're grouped with. Toxicity is never welcome in my groups, but laziness and entitlement (from players expecting a free ride from random partymembers) is, in my mind, another form of toxicity.
As someone who played WoW at launch through MOP I have to agree somewhat. Those early early rudimentary damage meters that we used in Molten Core seemed like they weren't a big deal. But when you look back over all of these years....
Man compared to other MMOs that I played prior to WoW, its incredible what Damage Meters, and a lack of Black Boxed game mechanics grew into over these 1.5 decades man. Players having all the formulas to exactly how things like threat, skill/damage variance, defensive proc %'s etc, combined with damage/healing meters really did push things more and more.
Back then it was really only taken seriously by those of us who were really sweaty, and we were the minority. If you were in your raid gear running a PUG of a dungeon, there was like 0 chance that the other people in the PUG were going to be running a damage meter. But compare that today, and all those sweaty hardcore gamer things have rolled downhill to be expected by the entire playerbase. It really makes me wonder how many potential players the genre/game scares off these days with the way things works now.
No more room for the gnome with no shoes and RP walking gimmick in this era outside of perhaps a specific RP server community.
A contrast and comparison between the two would be interesting but since he doesn't seem to play it FFXIV will be a major blind spot for Dan. But I suspect the conclusions on instrumental play will be similar. FFXIV just seems to have built a much more structured community around it's artistic free expression with housing, role play capabilities and flexible glamour
Really was a feeling of community and people learning together and helping each other. Good times.
Well TBC it seeped in a bit as well in my experience. I remember getting complained at I didn't grind exalted for one small upgrade, even though I was doing weekly 10mans for something even better.
I'd say Vanilla was mostly better for it, mainly because people, including the devs, didn't know how the classes should play yet, nor did they know about optimal gearing and in general I think Blizzard cared a lot more about stomping down bad actors. If you submitted a ticket about harassment, scamming or whatever else you actually got responses within hours and they'd do something. Good luck with that now, in WotLK Classic I've heard the ticket response time is multiple weeks, and even then they won't actually do anything, because they've adopted a very hands off approach where if their generic item/character recovery website can't do it then unlucky.
That said, I'm of the belief XIV still has issues as well despite everyone singing its praises. I mentioned in another thread recently how I quit that a long time ago because of gearscore toxicity, and I didn't have much interest at the time committing to a guild or something to get around it. I think unfortunately it's partly just inevitable that players end up doing this stuff these days as there's just not enough of an incentive for people to be accommodating towards newer players. They'd rather just get the dungeon over quick and move onto the next thing they need to do in the pile of grinding activities that you need to do to keep up in a MMO.
Yeah, there's still lots of similarities with instrumental play since FFXIV did kinda copy WoW in the kind of tab-target MMO it is. But the difference is definitely like you said, how it's structured around less competition, and more about just existing in the world together.
Honestly, in this case WoW should just stop using timed rewards. if a player messes up and causes a wipe, anger can boil over pretty easily under this system. Even if it is an endgame activity, it still changes the culture of the game as a whole.
As for purported lazy/entitled players in an MMO, I've never seen them. People are trying. They just might not be as good at video games as you are.
Okay, I clearly misremembered. I didn't get far into Shadowlands. Maybe this has changed since, but Mythic+ was absolutely not optional if someone wanted to do anything in PvP - random battlegrounds are miserable if your teammates are undergeared, and forget doing anything in the arena. It was a requirement for the entirety of BfA, and by the point I left in Shadowlands, it was still the fastest way to get baseline gear. It does look like people have a decent amount of PvP gear now even if they aren't fully decked out in it, so I'm glad to see that's improved.
I'm kind of jealous that you've seen all of these lazy and entitled players. I can't say I've seen one, but it certainly would have been a nice change of pace over the anal retentive jerks who get mean whenever someone makes a mistake during a boss or the tank doesn't go the optimal route.
Classic isn't that sweaty, maybe on the US megaservers but on Aussie servers it's mostly chill. My Blood DK is specced for DPS and using STR gems and DPS enchants. No one has really said anything because i don't die anyway.
Retail is pretty bad though, Mythic raiding is just a ridiculous level of difficulty and for some reason the community acts like all content must be treated the same as mythic. RBG's also require an insane amount of knowledge, only Tekken imo is worse than high end RBG's.
Retail is pretty bad though, Mythic raiding is just a ridiculous level of difficulty and for some reason the community acts like all content must be treated the same as mythic. RBG's also require an insane amount of knowledge, only Tekken imo is worse than high end RBG's.
I was a very high end raider on my server back in the day. My guild was battling for server seconds (we were a horde guild in an alliance dominated server). On world of logs every week I was top 12 for all but a couple fights in both ICC 10 and 25. We raided 4 nights a week (10pm est to 2am. We were a late night east coast guild) and the other 2 or sometimes 3 nights a week I ran my alts through runs with smaller guilds. I'd raid lead for them to help them get through content they were struggling with. I was younger (early 20s) and loved my community.
I ALMOST came back from classic Wrath. I had such good memories of it. I was about to turn my sub back on when a guy I play 40k with asked me to join his guild when I came back. I talked to him about what it was like, they were a "casual" guild. But then he got to talking about requirements for the starter dungeons and I'm like...uhh...are.you shiteing me? I've done those dungeons literally thousands of times, we raided Naxx with worse gear than that. It was then I changed my mind. I had second thoughts a few times but seeing this video showed I made the 100% right decision. I'm to old now to do commit 35 hours a week to a casual guild.
Blizzard said years ago "you don't want classic" and I think they were right. People don't. They want that time of their life back, meaning how their life was when they were in classic. Most of us were much much younger. Just out of highschool or still in highschool. Using thottbot to get information on quests, having nothing like DBM for molten Core or Ony.
I ALMOST came back from classic Wrath. I had such good memories of it. I was about to turn my sub back on when a guy I play 40k with asked me to join his guild when I came back. I talked to him about what it was like, they were a "casual" guild. But then he got to talking about requirements for the starter dungeons and I'm like...uhh...are.you shiteing me? I've done those dungeons literally thousands of times, we raided Naxx with worse gear than that. It was then I changed my mind. I had second thoughts a few times but seeing this video showed I made the 100% right decision. I'm to old now to do commit 35 hours a week to a casual guild.
Blizzard said years ago "you don't want classic" and I think they were right. People don't. They want that time of their life back, meaning how their life was when they were in classic. Most of us were much much younger. Just out of highschool or still in highschool. Using thottbot to get information on quests, having nothing like DBM for molten Core or Ony.
This is one of the reasons why I always make it a point to be there right as a new expansion is coming out. Other than the people who were on the beta, the norm will be to have no knowledge of dungeons and so it's a much more chill experience. This stops after a week or two. And this also applies to FF14. Once you've reached the point where people are doing roulettes and want to get though it as soon as possible, they can start to become quite rude.
You might be happy to know that FFXIV has been backfilling the ability to run through main story dungeons with a party of (usually story relevant) NPCs. They've currently done all of A Realm Reborn and Heavensward and are adding more every major patch (and Shadowbringers and Endwalker already have them, only Stormblood in the middle remains). Trials and Raids still require other players.
In most cases, if you speak up and say "Hi, I'm new here. Can we take it slow?" my experience has been that people will generally be accommodating. Like it's not going to be 100% guaranteed, but I've had it happen more often than not on both the asking and receiving end.
While people will say rude players in FFXIV are rare, and it's true they are, it doesn't change the effect encountering them can have on players, especially new players. It sucks.
Most of the problems with WoW go away if you find a good guild of regulars to play with. Most of the toxicity that people associate with the game are in the pick up group experience. Once you find a good crew to roll with regularly, it becomes not just tolerable, but a joy to play. WoW is still a singular and incredible experience for me, 18 years in.
This is exactly why I haven't continued FFXIV. I love the story and world and my character, a white mage, but I'm terrified of letting people down. Not healing right or something. I made it to level 50 something and I guess endgame of ARR, just kind of.. scared to keep going cause I feel like people will lose their patience with me.
That whole time trial challenges thing in mythic WoW dungeons fostered some toxic af behavior.
I remember going in with an optimal gear score, but was expected to know the absolute best route to take. Things like knowing what mobs to not pull by hugging a certain wall, and the exact route to take on dungeons with various paths. Got chewed out for not following the current "meta" path.
Despite tanking since vanilla off and on, it made me avoid anything endgame unless I was in a guild.
I remember going in with an optimal gear score, but was expected to know the absolute best route to take. Things like knowing what mobs to not pull by hugging a certain wall, and the exact route to take on dungeons with various paths. Got chewed out for not following the current "meta" path.
Despite tanking since vanilla off and on, it made me avoid anything endgame unless I was in a guild.
I mean, most content up to level 60+ can be done with NPC's now. You have to actually play to learn to improve.
People don't TEND to get impatient. there are ocassional rude folks, but that's EVERY game. They're the exception in ffxiv in my experience.
Also you're very early in the game, you could easilly grind up a less group-necessary DPS role in a couple days and play with that until you're more comfortable. Healer is probably the role that requires the most effort.
I'm not gonna link him, as it's fundamentally off topic, but check out Bobby Broccoli, he does videos on Jon Bois's Google Earth style about drama in the world of Physics Academia. So much so he has a video called "How To Animate In Google Earth (Like Jon Bois!)"
If it means anything, I was previously leveling up a healer for the first time ever and I found people very accommodating. Now, that said, I've been playing the game as a whole on and off since A Realm Reborn, mostly as a tank, so I have experience with the game overall, but I was still really intimidated. I would definitely encourage you to keep going if you want.
There's always the possibility that you're gonna find a jerk, and it's gonna happen eventually, but FFXIV tends to have less of them (at least in the story and casual stuff) than other MMOs, in my experience.
It's a super fascinating part of MMOs/multiplayer games. Stuff like trying to do another data centers strat in a 24 FFXIV raid always goes interestingly. Even if the strat is easier or faster people will cling to what they know and what they've seen work in the past.
There's definitely stuff FFXIV does compared to WoW to make players more supportive and less likely to turn on each other:
- Extra rewards for playing with a player who is new to the instance.
- Being extremely alt class friendly allowing people to understand each others' roles better.
- Commendation voting system at the end of each instance with cosmetics and a roulette unlock tied to this.
- Significantly reduced downtime after wipes particularly in Trials/Raids.
- Significantly less grinding for best in slot equipment. You can even craft best in slot equipment.
- More active mod team.
- Party Finder allowing people to set prerequisites for joining and setting expectations of the group.
- Add-ons banned. While you could easily get away with add-ons, bringing it up to insult someone's DPS is a way to get yourself suspended.
- No talent trees. Certainly stuff to miss here but it's disappearance does remove one possibility for friction.
While WoW doesn't have to worry about console cross-play and controller only players (yet), there's a lot of systemic reasons in FFXIV for people to feel less friction with each other.
You'll still occasionally get toxic players but you're significantly less likely to see them.
- Extra rewards for playing with a player who is new to the instance.
- Being extremely alt class friendly allowing people to understand each others' roles better.
- Commendation voting system at the end of each instance with cosmetics and a roulette unlock tied to this.
- Significantly reduced downtime after wipes particularly in Trials/Raids.
- Significantly less grinding for best in slot equipment. You can even craft best in slot equipment.
- More active mod team.
- Party Finder allowing people to set prerequisites for joining and setting expectations of the group.
- Add-ons banned. While you could easily get away with add-ons, bringing it up to insult someone's DPS is a way to get yourself suspended.
- No talent trees. Certainly stuff to miss here but it's disappearance does remove one possibility for friction.
While WoW doesn't have to worry about console cross-play and controller only players (yet), there's a lot of systemic reasons in FFXIV for people to feel less friction with each other.
You'll still occasionally get toxic players but you're significantly less likely to see them.
This is MUCH easier said than done. And I mean much easier. You have to find a group who is wanting the exact same thing as you. If you wanna be casual then a true casual guild. If you wanna be a casual raising guild then he it a true casual raising guild. They talk about this in the video. About a guild who, was 8 weeks behind in progression, absolutely going nuts on someone for not getting a max level item from their vault. 2 nights a week guild. It was clearly not a hardcore progression guild but acted more hardcore than we ever would have back in Wrath when we WERE hardcore raiding 4 nights a week battling for server 1sts (mostly only got 2nds but we damn tried)
Being accommodating doesn't mean doubling the run time of a 20 minute dungeon for a single player's benefit. It's a lot of smaller adjustments and considerations to ensure the run goes as smoothly as possible for the entire group.
Being more aware of the health of the group, being more proactive on defensive/healing cooldowns because the new players won't (And occasionally encouraging new tanks to pull bigger than they think they can because I can handle healing it), having boss mechanic explanations ready to go, and having good (Brief) feedback when that player causes a wipe are all reasonable accommodations.
Just make sure you ask for them, as getting a notification that a player is new to a dungeon doesn't mean the player wants that help.
The only thing not timing a key does for you gear-wise nowadays is de-level the keystone used by one level, and lower the gear drop item level out of the chest by 3 item levels. That sounds like a nuisance with the Unbound Changeling anecdote they touch on earlier in the video, but those three item levels can be made up easily by purchasing a rank of item level upgrades from an NPC in Oribos.
It's funny you say fighting games in this example because Smash has evolved their lexicon completely separate from traditional fighting games so a lot of the exact same concepts have completely different names in the Smash community. Mirror matches being 'Dittos', Recovery frames being endlag and casuals being called friendlies. More to your point, Smash is a game with almost (maybe zero) Japanese words in its dictionary, presumably because the Japanese aren't known to be nearly as dominant in Smash.
Fair enough. I guess I've gotten lucky with all three groups I've played with. Everyone's been fairly normal and human and understanding.
In each guild I've been part of, there have certainly been some Who played with a different level of intensity and dedication than others, and for the most part, people made peace with that. On occasions where some people wanted to go more hardcore, they left, and we kept going.
I do a hard 180 when I encounter toxic losers in this game. This game is about other people and relationships with them almost as much as it is about the actual moment to moment combat and other in-game systems. You get ahead if you can find and build good relationships in the game. Frankly, I always thought that was intrinsic to the design and something that actually allured people to this kind of game, but it has changed a lot over the years.
This is a great video, as someone who played at very high levels of WoW and why I moved away from it. This is hitting all the notes. The end of the first section talking about previous studies observations and how they approached just sounding like all the research metaverse people basically ever do cracked me up.
Last edited:
The bit about people mocking someone for getting a version of the item that is only 99.2% as effective as it could be is a perfect summary of why I quit group content in WoW completely. I remember being whispered by one of the leaders in a guild raid that I am missing an enchant on my ring that gives me + 0.005% DPS, while half the damage dealers in the raid were doing a third of damage I was doing, and I wasn't even playing a FOTM class.
This is part of why I was disappointed in season of mastery. For me what made WoW so amazing in the first place was exploring this big open world with all these other people and all the emergent gameplay that developed from that. The end game is fun but the ultra focus only on endgame has lead to what the WoW community is now.
I want to see a vanilla WoW/SoM that seeks to improve the leveling experience and make that the focus of the game. Sure you can improve the end game but bring the players back into the world and encourage them to stay there.
I want to see a vanilla WoW/SoM that seeks to improve the leveling experience and make that the focus of the game. Sure you can improve the end game but bring the players back into the world and encourage them to stay there.
Haven't watched the video yet but I feel like this sort of thing is exactly what turned me off Destiny 2. The folks on ERA here were super nice, but literally anywhere else where I tried to play with other people I got so much abuse from people that wanted things to be done using specific strategies / loadouts but wouldn't (or couldn't) explain what that was because "it was obvious".
What's worse about Destiny 2 is because of the relative lack of activities and structure/design of bounties with reward structure and modifiers you're basically forced to play almost exactly like it wants you to. It's very much a shape blocks setup. There's a fine balance to be struck. WoW is an interesting one because it's one of a few mmo style games that still can. Though it's quickly going that direction too.
I remember I came back from a hiatus during WotLK and a guildmate warned me that the atmosphere and attitude of the playerbase had changed in that time, and that people had become less friendly and forgiving since I last played. I didn't think too much of it at the time but he perhaps he was right. Most of my negative memories of the game are from the tail end of WotLK, right before I quit the game.
I can't tell you how much this resonates with me. The last guild I was with fell apart because they were "casual" but had all these requirements for us to even start the first raid back in BFA. Might have been legion. I can't remember.
Anyway, we'd been with this guild since its inception and the people all seemed like really good folks. The core was a guy, his wife, his brother and their best friend. They'd never run a guild before and I'd been raiding since Molten core. I could main tank for them, the guild leader could off tank and my wife could be one of the main healers.
We got through the raid tier of the last expansion and everything was great. The guild leader's wife was pregnant and our own Milennia was nice enough to help me get her a Mount from one of those runs where you beat the last tier of a raid boss because she was pregnant as fuck and was like a tier and a half behind so she'd get one shotted in the raid. I think it was the moose run. It was an REALLY nice thing that Milennia did and I thought it would just be another morale booster for my guild because we all had the mounts from killing the last boss except for the guild leader's wife cause she was super pregnant.
Well that was a mistake. Apparently that was a mind bending thing for the guild leader because he saw Milennia's guild wrecked the last boss. Like thoroughly wreck the boss in a quarter of the time a normal guild would and with half the people. That's cause Milennia's guild was one of those world first type guilds and I explained that to the guild leader. That we were playing pick up games and they were the NBA.
It didn't compute. He thought we could be in the NBA (so-to-speak) and that fucked our guild up.
Because of that, the next expansion came along and they wanted to add more members to the guild so we could have a bigger raid team and be more "hardcore". They ended up recruiting two specific people that were the epitome of toxic. When the first raid tier of the next expansion came along there were these "requirements" to even go on the first raid with the guild. My wife got super upset because she was off by like two points from this score they wanted for the raid gear score, even though she'd been leading 5 man runs through dungeons and shit like that to gear people up to be READY for the raid. She was our main healer and they were going to exclude her over some arbitrary score. So I talk to the guild leader like "wtf man? You don't need to be so bound to this score number. This is a mechanics based game. That's why they have rage timers because people can play past their gear score. You don't have to hard cap like this."
The next day we log in and the guild is disbanded. We try to figure out what the hell happened and the raid leader, his brother, his wife, his best friend, and and one of the toxic players (who gave the guild leader the idea of the gear score requirement in the first place) formed a new guild and were recruiting people for it. They fell apart a month later and as far as I know most of them stopped playing.
I don't get why players in this game will sim the fun out of the game. Everyone is obsessed with "the meta" and what's the best way to play rather than what's actually fun. I get not wanting to waste other folks time, but tripping over gear score (and I'm not talking about taking someone who has like 150 gear on a 250+ raid) or giving people shit because they aren't playing in a specific way that would give a .5% Dps increase is just insanity. Especially because the folks you're playing with most likely aren't on the cutting edge/top tier/world first chasing guilds where that .5% would even make a difference.
I wanted to go back to Wrath classic just to play it again cause I loved that expansion but you absolutely need a guild to get through Naxx, Wrath and Ulduar, and no one I know that I used to raid with plays anymore. Knowing how the community is, and how there will be requirements out the ass just to play… I can't do it. I played all those raids dozens if not hundreds of times over the years but it won't matter cause these people read on a site that a fear score is better than experience. They'd rather have someone who has gear that let's them stand in the fire than someone who is smart enough to NOT stand in the fire.
I've been in three guilds where half the group wants to go hard core and the other half doesn't and it breaks shit. I would LOVE to come back to wow and play with a like minded guild where I can just play casually but I don't think it's possible to find people like that and I don't have it in me to dedicate the time with a group of people to just have it fall apart again.
Last edited:
I was randomly recommended this channel and found it hilarious that he was doing the same thing. I'm not sure if I need every essay to be a fancy power point, but it's cute to see the style in a different context.
I will say, I could do without the musak though. I find it more of a distraction than an enhancement.
Last edited: